Apple TV owners' thread. - Page 211 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6301 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
The problem here is two different meanings for 'Black Level'. The first (and more common usage) is about 'breaking' the YCC color space to accomodate RGB/IT. LG uses it to compensate for the fact people (even Kuro Elite owners) aren't quite used to zero output from zero stimulus. This can have real-world effects in delicate perceptual tasks like color grading.


Interesting...I’ve always seen it recommended to set at Low on LG OLED’s for YCbCr. Is there ever a usage case where it should be set to High? I can toggle RGB High and Low on my Switch (it doesn’t output YCbCr), so my thought was to set that to High and the TV Black Level to match at High as well, but that may not necessarily be correct.


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post #6302 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tylerk86 View Post
Interesting...I’ve always seen it recommended to set at Low on LG OLED’s for YCbCr. Is there ever a usage case where it should be set to High?
If you prefer it that way from years of watching LCD displays.

Just to be clear:
your display allows the selection of RGB/IT, RGB/CE and YCbCr and when you select RGB you can still change the 'Black Level'?
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post #6303 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 02:31 PM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
If you prefer it that way from years of watching LCD displays.

Just to be clear:
your display allows the selection of RGB/IT, RGB/CE and YCbCr and when you select RGB you can still change the 'Black Level'?


I’m really not sure if my display allows that (unless you’re telling me it does); I’m new to this model. What I do know is that I can select either YCbCr at 4:2:0 or 4:4:4 or RGB High or RGB Low on my Apple TV. Regardless of which of those I choose, I can adjust the Black Level on my TV between Low and High. What I would like is the most depth to my image; I don’t really like the look of LCD, which is why I switched to OLED.


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post #6304 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tylerk86 View Post
I can adjust the Black Level on my TV between Low and High. What I would like is the most depth to my image
This suggests that the control is for MLL and should be left on low. Games are a special case. HDR is a special case. WCG is a special case. The suggestions we've provided are (mostly) for watching cinematically sourced SDR. Since I don't I have a game console I don't pay attention to game support in displays. You might ask about the subtleties in the sub-forum for your display.
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post #6305 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Raiders4life12 View Post
Can you airplay 4k pictures and videos taken on an iPhone with the new ATV?
I was wondering the same thing. Anyone?
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post #6306 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 03:55 PM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

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Originally Posted by TheRatPatrol View Post
I was wondering the same thing. Anyone?


The resolution is dependent somewhat on the device/s sending the source. In the past I believe IDevices (iPhone/iPad) were limited to 720p which Mac desktops could send higher resolutions.

So while I am certain you can airplay 4K photos and videos, it is unclear what resolution is sent to the AppleTV from the iPhone and it will likely depend on your phone model.

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post #6307 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rsonnens View Post
The resolution is dependent somewhat on the device/s sending the source. In the past I believe IDevices (iPhone/iPad) were limited to 720p which Mac desktops could send higher resolutions.

So while I am certain you can airplay 4K photos and videos, it is unclear what resolution is sent to the AppleTV from the iPhone and it will likely depend on your phone model.
Sounds like we need to get someone to try it. I don't have the devices to do it otherwise I would.

If it can't do it then they should have kept the USB-C port and allowed you to hook up your iPhone to the ATV via lighting/USB-C cable in order to view your videos and photos on your 4KTV. Unless there's a lighting to HDMI cable out there somewhere?

EDIT: Never mind I see there is an adapter out there for it. Hopefully it passes 4K content.

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post #6308 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 04:21 PM
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Apple TV owners' thread.

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Originally Posted by TheRatPatrol View Post
Sounds like we need to get someone to try it. I don't have the devices to do it otherwise I would.



If it can't do it then they should have kept the USB-C port and allowed you to hook up your iPhone to the ATV via lighting/USB-C cable in order to view your videos and photos on your 4KTV. Unless there's a lighting to HDMI cable out there somewhere?


Confused by your comment. Newer Iphones can connect to usb c devices with the proper adapter. Older support slower usb with the proper adapter. Apple has also sold in the past dongles for dvi, hdmi, and vga.

But the issue has to do with having a graphics processor with enough horse power to simultaneously support 2 4k displays (the screen and the streamed display as they don’t always show he same image.) it is a design compromise between chip size & complexity, battery life, heat, and actually need.


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post #6309 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 04:50 PM
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I have a 2016 MacBook Pro with the most recent versions of High Sierra and iTunes. Why is it that when I go to the iTunes Store and browse movies in 4K the actual movie never indicates 4K? The same movies do show 4K icons on my iPhone, iPad and Apple TV 4K. The screenshot if from iTunes on my MBP and as you can see it does not indicate that Spider-Man Homecoming is in 4K despite having clicked on it from the iTunes 4K section.
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post #6310 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by PTV Programmer View Post
I have a 2016 MacBook Pro with the most recent versions of High Sierra and iTunes. Why is it that when I go to the iTunes Store and browse movies in 4K the actual movie never indicates 4K? The same movies do show 4K icons on my iPhone, iPad and Apple TV 4K. The screenshot if from iTunes on my MBP and as you can see it does not indicate that Spider-Man Homecoming is in 4K despite having clicked on it from the iTunes 4K section.
I don't think any MacBooks can display 4K to their own screen, so it isn't flagged as such.
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post #6311 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by roland6465 View Post
I don't think any MacBooks can display 4K to their own screen, so it isn't flagged as such.


It’s not that it’s that Apple is not offering 4k via Mac/iTunes just the Apple TV. You can search for 4k movies on iTunes just not view them in 4k.

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post #6312 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mentsmin View Post
What are y’all using for up conversion on apps like HBO Go? Dolby24 and HDR24 look pretty good; however, in HBO Go at least I get grey banding that I can’t get rid of.
So far, as measured by the Flatpanels review and as you are finding, Apple is doing funky things when upconverting sdr content to hdr.

Layer on top of that that many tv's are better at displaying sdr content as sdr content than they are at displaying even perfectly converted sdr in an hdr container and you VP get issues like that, even if Apple improves their conversion process.

Manually switch to sdr output when watching sdr content and all is good.

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I've been reading through everything about the need to change resolution/HDR/SDR depending on what kind of programming I'm watching. Do I understand correctly that all I need to do is to set the new AppleTV to 1080P SDR for regular 1080P programs, back to 4K SDR for 4K programs without HDR and, finally, to 4K HDR for true HDR programs? And if I use those settings, that no "artificial" HDR will be applied; HDR will only be used when I set the resolution to use HDR? I'm usually pretty good with all of this stuff, but the overload of information and opinions has me questioning my understanding of things.
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There is no “need” to change anything and there is no “artificial HDR” applied. Read the flatpanelshd review. Understand how the equipment works then do what works best for you.


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The review says just the opposite, that the sdr conversion is flawed with delta E measurements wel into the visible range.

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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
If we read the same review, then Apple’s HDR “conversion” on non-HDR content is flawed. I prefer to avoid it. My advice to the OP would be to set the device to 4K SDR/60Hz for any content that is not HDR or DV. This allows the ATV to upscale to 4K, and it does a nice job.
Yep

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I don't agree at all. The ATV 4K outputs only an HDR signal. That means that SDR is "converted" to HDR before output, resulting in a very flat image of a picture that was supposed to be in SDR. No other device that I'm aware of does this.

My Roku doesn't. My Nvidia Shield doesn't. The apps built into my Sony Z9D don't. All of these other devices only send an HDR signal to the display if the program is designed to be shown in HDR and has the appropriate flags set. SDR programs do NOT trigger an HDR response from the display.

Do this. Carefully look at the icons on the main page on the ATV when the ATV is set to output SDR. Notice the nice contrast? Now set the ATV to output HDR. Notice how flat that same main menu screen now looks? It doesn't look right. It's too flat. That's what happens when you blindly convert SDR to HDR.
While I hate what Apple is doing, something sounds amiss with your tv settings. The icons page should actually appear alright as hdr.

Of course this points to why even if Apple converts sdr well, there are a lot of displays where the final product is compromised.

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Originally Posted by rolledoff View Post
Can you download movies on to Apple TV 4K?

I read that itunes movies can be downloaded to ios devices as long as they're HD and not UHD. Does that apply to Apple TV 4K as well? I'm trying to decide between the 32 GB version and the 64 GB version, and I'm not sure if I'd ever need the extra space.

Does apple tv 4k support 4k hdr/dv movies via AirPlay?

Can I use my 2015 macbook pro or ipad mini 4 to stream/airplay 4k hdr/dv movies to my tv via apple tv 4k?

Can apps like Infuse or MrMC on Apple TV 4K play 4K movies from network shares?

Can they play files from NAS or SMB shares?
You can’t really download a movie even hd to the ATV, though with hd it acts like a download device. Think of it as a cache while watching it. Their 4K content doesn’t work this way and is more like adaptive streaming.

Itunes 4K content is not compatible with airplay.
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post #6313 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bodosom View Post
This suggests that the control is for MLL and should be left on low. Games are a special case. HDR is a special case. WCG is a special case. The suggestions we've provided are (mostly) for watching cinematically sourced SDR. Since I don't I have a game console I don't pay attention to game support in displays. You might ask about the subtleties in the sub-forum for your display.
Been playing with RGB High and Low tonight. It seems that RGB requires a change to color and brightness settings on the Sony panel. RGB Low seems to need much more color adjustment that RGB High, particularly with the reds. Any advice? (Sony's color was previously set using 2 and 10 point settings).

It is strange... red seems the most affected by RGB High and Low, but the reds look ok half the time then a pinkish/ neon red the rest of the time, particularly with faces and red lights (tail lights, street lights, Xmas lights).
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post #6314 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
You can’t really download a movie even hd to the ATV, though with hd it acts like a download device. Think of it as a cache while watching it. Their 4K content doesn’t work this way and is more like adaptive streaming.

Itunes 4K content is not compatible with airplay.
Thanks, so there's essentially ZERO advantage to getting the 64 GB version over the 32 GB if one doesn't play games?
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post #6315 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 08:51 PM
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Thanks, so there's essentially ZERO advantage to getting the 64 GB version over the 32 GB if one doesn't play games?


I have both sizes and can’t tell what the extra space is for. You’d think it’d be for apps or caching iCloud Photos or Apple Music Libraries or Movies but I can’t see it.


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post #6316 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 08:52 PM
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I have both sizes and can’t tell what the extra space is for. You’d think it’d be for apps or caching iCloud Photos or Apple Music Libraries or Movies but I can’t see it.


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Thanks, just what I wanted to hear. If you don't see a difference in caching while watching TV even when the internet speed is lower, I will just get the 32 GB version. Thanks!
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post #6317 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by daimler2015 View Post
Been playing with RGB High and Low tonight. It seems that RGB requires a change to color and brightness settings on the Sony panel. RGB Low seems to need much more color adjustment that RGB High, particularly with the reds. Any advice? (Sony's color was previously set using 2 and 10 point settings).

It is strange... red seems the most affected by RGB High and Low, but the reds look ok half the time then a pinkish/ neon red the rest of the time, particularly with faces and red lights (tail lights, street lights, Xmas lights).
Unless you are analyzing the changes using a colorimeter and calibration software, you are essentially flying blind. My Sony display is calibrated using a 1080p test pattern displayed in YCbCr 4:4:4 8-bit. Once the calibration has been dialed in, I don’t tweak the settings. I then set the AppleTV 4K to output 4K SDR/60Hz 4:4:4 (for everything except the occasional HDR source), and I know I am good.
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post #6318 of 6902 Old 10-07-2017, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rsonnens View Post
Confused by your comment. Newer Iphones can connect to usb c devices with the proper adapter. Older support slower usb with the proper adapter. Apple has also sold in the past dongles for dvi, hdmi, and vga.

But the issue has to do with having a graphics processor with enough horse power to simultaneously support 2 4k displays (the screen and the streamed display as they don’t always show he same image.) it is a design compromise between chip size & complexity, battery life, heat, and actually need.


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The question came up if you can stream 4K video and photos shot on an iPhone to the ATV4K using AirPlay and have it displayed in 4K on a 4KTV. If it can't, I was asking if the lighting to HDMI adapter could handle 4K video to a 4KTV. I was also asking if someone could try it and see what happens.

Sorry for the confusion.
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post #6319 of 6902 Old 10-08-2017, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by thrashmagazine View Post
For what it’s worth I have never ever received a green screen on anything but 4k devices. My nvidia Shield was so bad I returned it. That said, unless your tv is hosed (which you would see it all the time), green to me equals handshake issue meaning one of the devices in the chain isn’t updating properly. Next time it happens so if you can narrow which device “fixes it.” The issue with these devices is they are always on, so switching for example from device A and B on your receiver, the receiver might listen for a new signal but the Apple TV might not send out since it’s on already. Same with the tv. Assumingely you are using the receiver as a receiver so you probably have everything filter through it.

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Did some more trouble shooting today. Seems if I switch to Apple TV 4K from DirecTV I will get a green screen 50% if I wake up the Apple TV after I switch to Media Player on receiver.. If the Apple TV is already awake I can switch between DirecTV and Apple TV and won't have issues. When the green screen first appears changing inputs on the tv won't resolve the issue, switching sources on the receiver won't resolve either. The two ways I have tested is unplugging the HDMI from the Apple TV 4K and plugging back in resolves the issue or turning the Denon AVR-X2400 off. I have not tried it with turning the tv off to see if it resolves. However, if I wake up the Apple TV 4K prior to switching to Media Player source the green screen does not occur.
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post #6320 of 6902 Old 10-08-2017, 05:24 AM
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I don't think any MacBooks can display 4K to their own screen, so it isn't flagged as such.
Thanks. There is one other interesting note: the movie Star Trek (2009) is in their 4K section - shows up with 4K DV icons on my iPhone iTunes Store and iPad iTunes Store, but on my ATV 4K the movie does not have the 4K DV icons.
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post #6321 of 6902 Old 10-08-2017, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by PTV Programmer View Post
Thanks. There is one other interesting note: the movie Star Trek (2009) is in their 4K section - shows up with 4K DV icons on my iPhone iTunes Store and iPad iTunes Store, but on my ATV 4K the movie does not have the 4K DV icons.
Try looking for the Director's Cut...

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post #6322 of 6902 Old 10-08-2017, 05:32 AM
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Try looking for the Director's Cut...
Hmm, iTunes Store doesn't have a director's cut.
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Hmm, iTunes Store doesn't have a director's cut.
Ah...wrong title. Was thinking of Wrath of Khan.

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I’ve watched 3 movies on the Apple TV: Transformers, Lone Survivor, and Baywatch. I’ve noticed horizontal lines when the camera is panning is any direction. I have a Sony 940e and I’m using 4K HDR at 60 hz as the video output. Is anybody else seeing this issue? I don’t see these lines when watching Netflix or amazon video. Maybe it’s my hdmi cable? I have the mono price premium high speed cable. I’ve tried the other video outputs and I see the same thing. Does anybody know what could be causing this issue? Any help would be appreciated!


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post #6325 of 6902 Old 10-08-2017, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by nj1420 View Post
I’ve watched 3 movies on the Apple TV: Transformers, Lone Survivor, and Baywatch. I’ve noticed horizontal lines when the camera is panning is any direction. I have a Sony 940e and I’m using 4K HDR at 60 hz as the video output. Is anybody else seeing this issue? I don’t see these lines when watching Netflix or amazon video. Maybe it’s my hdmi cable? I have the mono price premium high speed cable. I’ve tried the other video outputs and I see the same thing. Does anybody know what could be causing this issue? Any help would be appreciated!


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Is Motionflow: TrueCinema?

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post #6326 of 6902 Old 10-08-2017, 06:12 AM
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Is Motionflow: TrueCinema?


Yes. Just realized that I didn’t have the hdmi input set to enhanced and I think that fixed the issue. Hard to tell during the day but I’ll check tonight. Thanks for the suggestion though!


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post #6327 of 6902 Old 10-08-2017, 08:43 AM
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My display can only accept 4:4:4 Chroma in PC mode, where a few other settings that I find essential for cinematic viewing are disabled, so that input isn't really an option for my Apple TV. My question is whether or not there's any harm in setting my Apple TV to output 4:4:4 in SDR or if I should leave it at 4:2:0. I'm not sure if Chroma mismatch can create problems.

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post #6328 of 6902 Old 10-08-2017, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tylerk86 View Post
My display can only accept 4:4:4 Chroma in PC mode, where a few other settings that I find essential for cinematic viewing are disabled, so that input isn't really an option for my Apple TV. My question is whether or not there's any harm in setting my Apple TV to output 4:4:4 in SDR or if I should leave it at 4:2:0. I'm not sure if Chroma mismatch can create problems.
There is no benefit to using anything higher than 4:2:0 for videos, or any output from Apple TV.
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post #6329 of 6902 Old 10-08-2017, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rolledoff View Post
There is no benefit to using anything higher than 4:2:0 for videos, or any output from Apple TV.


I didn’t think so. However, no benefit and active disadvantage are two different things. I wonder why Apple chooses 4:4:4 as the default? Am I degrading PQ in any way (banding, etc.) by choosing 4:4:4?


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post #6330 of 6902 Old 10-08-2017, 10:05 AM
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No sure why you are obsessing about this. I'll bet you couldn't tell the difference between 4:2:0 and 4:4:4 in a blind test.
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