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post #6571 of 6864 Old 10-12-2017, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Thanks for posting this! I hadn't connected the Apple TV through my Oppo to test but that is very interesting that all those 4:2:2 color space HDR settings result in 8 bit. I have changed my Apple TV to 4:2:0 since all the content is in that color space anyway.
Yes thanks @galonzo . On the last update I had posted that 4K HDR 60Hz provided 10 bit for both 4:2:2 and 4:2:0. So since I dragged you into it I have been up working overtime at my usual charge-out rate of $0.00 per hour to revise the spreadsheet by adding the orange column as follows:

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post #6572 of 6864 Old 10-12-2017, 10:39 PM
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Is that the TV telling you 422 is 8bpp? That's not right. I've got an Accupel analyzer connected to an ATV and when it's 422 it's 12 bpp. All HDMI 422 is 12bpp.
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post #6573 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by patrick harkin View Post
Is that the TV telling you 422 is 8bpp? That's not right. I've got an Accupel analyzer connected to an ATV and when it's 422 it's 12 bpp. All HDMI 422 is 12bpp.
No, it's the Oppo UDP-203 input display information.

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post #6574 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 05:07 AM
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Something I just noticed with the TV app on iPhone and Apple TV HD labeling. Everything on tv app that is in 4K is labeled Dolby Vision, while in the Apple TV 4K some say 4K, 4K HDR, and Dolby Vision. This is very confusing to say the least. I have a call scheduled for later today with apple where I will bring this up.
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post #6575 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by akadennis View Post
Something I just noticed with the TV app on iPhone and Apple TV HD labeling. Everything on tv app that is in 4K is labeled Dolby Vision, while in the Apple TV 4K some say 4K, 4K HDR, and Dolby Vision. This is very confusing to say the least. I have a call scheduled for later today with apple where I will bring this up.


Good catch. That’s a weird bug. I would expect the app to be grabbing the same metadata the other apps use.


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post #6576 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Musician View Post
Yes thanks @galonzo . On the last update I had posted that 4K HDR 60Hz provided 10 bit for both 4:2:2 and 4:2:0. So since I dragged you into it I have been up working overtime at my usual charge-out rate of $0.00 per hour to revise the spreadsheet by adding the orange column as follows:

I don't see where in the menu the colorspace is ... appreciate help.

NVM - I found it... but here is another question - If you select 4K Dolby Vision 24Hz as the format and 4:2:2 Not sure whether you get 10 Bit or 8
My TV is DV Capable so that is my preferred HDR.

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post #6577 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 06:24 AM
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Is it only me or others are noticing this also that the audio quality of the Apple TV is very good even though it is 5.1.
VUDU through Roku or Streaming even ATMOS is Tinny.
If anyone has compared - please comment.
If that is any indication once Apple TV rolls out ATMOS it will be awesome.
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post #6578 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Thanks for posting this! I hadn't connected the Apple TV through my Oppo to test but that is very interesting that all those 4:2:2 color space HDR settings result in 8 bit. I have changed my Apple TV to 4:2:0 since all the content is in that color space anyway.
Since you have a different, newer HDR display than me, it sounds like you may need to do just that; according to Mr. @patrick harkin , the ATV4k should be outputting 12bit for 4:2:2, so we can at least determine whether it's a limitation of the Oppo HDMI input, or the display. I will hopefully be able to take the Oppo out of the equation later today, and see what my AVR is reporting.
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post #6579 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Is it only me or others are noticing this also that the audio quality of the Apple TV is very good even though it is 5.1.
VUDU through Roku or Streaming even ATMOS is Tinny.
If anyone has compared - please comment.
If that is any indication once Apple TV rolls out ATMOS it will be awesome.
Well, the 5.1 signal is digital, and it passes the digital signal to your AVR over HDMI, where the AVR's DAC converts it to analog. I am assuming the Roki also passes a digital signal via HDMI. Are you claiming two digital signals sound different?
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post #6580 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Well, the 5.1 signal is digital, and it passes the digital signal to your AVR over HDMI, where the AVR's DAC converts it to analog. I am assuming the Roki also passes a digital signal via HDMI. Are you claiming two digital signals sound different?
Yes - if you play a movie from iTunes Store with 5.1 on Apple TV 4K it sounds much better.
If you use the VUDU app on the Roku Ultra and play 5.1 or even ATMOS it sounds Tinny (BTW People are reporting that sound from VUDU app on Apple TV is also bad but I have not tried that).
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post #6581 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
I don't see where in the menu the colorspace is ... appreciate help.

NVM - I found it... but here is another question - If you select 4K Dolby Vision 24Hz as the format and 4:2:2 Not sure whether you get 10 Bit or 8
My TV is DV Capable so that is my preferred HDR.
As I have mentioned I haven't received my ATV4K and we are using @galonzo 's setups to test this. In this post where he provided the displays of what is Oppo is 'seeing' for each of the various settings in the ATV4k he mentioned that "For those with DV capabilities, sorry, no DV display here..." but I bet if you bought him one he'd be happy to perform the same tests.


Apple TV owners' thread.

He is also going to do the same tests later on using his Receiver and sees what it reads.

Cheers!

Edit

@Sharma , just in case you missed it, a couple of guys with Dolby Vision setups have also reported seeing 8 bits where they expected to see it sending 10 bits which I replied to yesterday as follows:

Apple TV owners' thread.
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post #6582 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Well, the 5.1 signal is digital, and it passes the digital signal to your AVR over HDMI, where the AVR's DAC converts it to analog. I am assuming the Roki also passes a digital signal via HDMI. Are you claiming two digital signals sound different?


It’s a possibility they can look different and sound different between services. They are using different encodes and delivery methods. I redeemed Prometheus a couple months ago on iTunes. I already had it in Vudu. The iTunes version was hideous in comparison. After the 4k Apple TV was released, 4k version was available but the HD version is now leaps and bounds better.


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post #6583 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 07:30 AM
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You do realize that these forums exist to further conversation and understanding of a given topic, right? I can read every link sent to me, but that’s not the same thing as a dialogue with someone addressing specific concerns or questions someone may have. I never said I wasn’t researching through Google or testing my setup, but if I want to know an objective fact, like what bit-rate a file exists at, I’m going to ask it. There is no world where you’re going to make me feel stupid for asking questions on an Internet message board.
@tylerk86 , as a newbie to this stuff myself, I can partially relate to your concerns, but these guys here aren't trying to make you feel stupid. Your questions are most redundant in that it appears you are trying to further complicate issues that are already complicated enough, and those that are simple, you're seem to be confusing yourself and making them even more complicated. Granted, your questions are directly related to the ATV 4K, some of them are digging way too deep into the actual workings of the ATV.


Believe me, I understand where you're coming from but just don't be so redundant. Spoken from a pure newbie himself.
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post #6584 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 07:31 AM
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@tylerk86 , as a newbie to this stuff myself, I can partially relate to your concerns, but these guys here aren't trying to make you feel stupid. Your questions are most redundant in that it appears you are trying to further complicate issues that are already complicated enough, and those that are simple, you're seem to be confusing yourself and making them even more complicated. Granted, your questions are directly related to the ATV 4K, some of them are digging way too deep into the actual workings of the ATV.


Believe me, I understand where you're coming from but just don't be so redundant. Spoken from a pure newbie himself.


Thanks for the constructive criticism!
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post #6585 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 07:57 AM
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Marking movies/episodes as watched

I have an extensive library of m4v files ripped from my owned/in possession dvds and blu-rays. On previous ATVs I could mark things as watched by hitting/holding the ok button or d pad. Not working on the ATV 4K. Guessing there is no way to do this on the current firmware??

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post #6586 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 08:29 AM
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Hey guys,

I've been tinkering with my Apple TV 4K a bit, which is paired with my Vizio P65-C1 for a couple weeks now. Overall I love the picture quality and ease of use, and it's an upgrade for us since we're in the Apple ecosystem (Airplay FTW!).

But there are a couple issues that I just can't seem to solve:

  1. When I switch set the video to 4K Dolby Vision 60Hz, I sometimes notice a flash of graphical artifacts appearing the middle of the screen (usually white but sometimes can be of various colors). It happens everywhere (menu, screensaver, watching something) and only happens for a second. It's hard to explain since I'm probably not using the right terms, but it sort of looks what you'd see if your cable is loose (which I know it's not). I only see this on the Dolby Vision setting and no other mode (SDR / HDR). What confuses me is this isn't happening when I'm watching a Dolby Vision content on the TV's built-in Chromecast feature.

  2. Because of the issue above, I have mine set to 4K SDR 60Hz. Every 4-5 mins though, I notice some juddering/stuttering (the picture sort of lags looking like it's needing to catch up). At first I thought I had a defective HDMI cable, but then I realized I never came across these juddering issues on my Roku Ultra. I could set the TV's Reduce Judder to 0 - which kinda solves it - but then I don't get the smooth picture effect which I actually like. Is this happening because the ATV4K is showing everything at 60Hz while most things I'm watching are recorded at 24Hz?

Not sure if anyone here has similar issues, but I'd appreciate any help!
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post #6587 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 08:42 AM
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After importing my Movies Anywhere library to iTunes, titles from Sony and FOX that iTunes reports as 4K Dolby Vision or 4K HDR are playing back the ST.2084 file, but limited to 2K resolution. At least that is what appears at first glance to be happening based on the playback HUD. Anyone else seeing this?

I'm suspicious that the import may be 2K because the digital copy redemption was 2K. Can anyone confirm that the iTunes upgrade to 4K applies *only* to titles originally purchased through iTunes?
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post #6588 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hm629 View Post
Is this happening because the ATV4K is showing everything at 60Hz while most things I'm watching are recorded at 24Hz?
I'm new to my 4K display (one week today) but I see frame rate artifacts if I don't use @24. All the content I've checked (just Netflix and iTunes video) reports 24Hz. I mention the newness because there's a chance there's some motion/pull-down setting that would help but since I'm not really bothered by the UI at 24Hz I've been (mostly) leaving the ATV set to 4K@24.
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post #6589 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 09:09 AM
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I'm new to my 4K display (one week today) but I see frame rate artifacts if I don't use @24. All the content I've checked (just Netflix and iTunes video) reports 24Hz. I mention the newness because there's a chance there's some motion/pull-down setting that would help but since I'm not really bothered by the UI at 24Hz I've been (mostly) leaving the ATV set to 4K@24.
I actually did try setting mine at 4K 24Hz, and the content I checked on Netflix did work just fine. But then when I tested PS Vue, some channels on there stuttered quite badly (almost slideshow-like). The menu did feel more sluggish like you said, but I'm more or less OK about that.

Apple really made things uber complicated here by not supporting native resolution. And there's no way I can be bothered to change video settings manually based on what content I want to watch (c'mon, it should just work!).
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post #6590 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by hm629 View Post
I actually did try setting mine at 4K 24Hz, and the content I checked on Netflix did work just fine. But then when I tested PS Vue, some channels on there stuttered quite badly (almost slideshow-like). The menu did feel more sluggish like you said, but I'm more or less OK about that.



Apple really made things uber complicated here by not supporting native resolution. And there's no way I can be bothered to change video settings manually based on what content I want to watch (c'mon, it should just work!).


I had a similar issue using 24Hz with Hulu, specifically American Horror Story. I haven’t checked but I can’t imagine this wasn’t filmed at 24p. Oddly enough, when I set the Apple TV to 60Hz with Real Cinema enabled on my TV (which serves to reverse the 3:2 pulldown and play the content back at 24p), the issue was resolved.

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post #6591 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by home_theatre_man View Post
After importing my Movies Anywhere library to iTunes, titles from Sony and FOX that iTunes reports as 4K Dolby Vision or 4K HDR are playing back the ST.2084 file, but limited to 2K resolution. At least that is what appears at first glance to be happening based on the playback HUD. Anyone else seeing this?

I'm suspicious that the import may be 2K because the digital copy redemption was 2K. Can anyone confirm that the iTunes upgrade to 4K applies *only* to titles originally purchased through iTunes?
Potential issue about the supposed free iTunes 4K "upgrade" when using Movies Anywhere, people are noticing purchases from other service aren't exactly playing in 4K in iTunes even if it might be labeled as such:

Quote:
"Okay so not to alarm anyone, because AppleCare senior advisors don’t know everything and we’re escalating this to TV engineering, but...

Advisor said that the licenses that come through programs like MA count as “second session” licenses, meaning they’re not where you first purchased them. According to the agreement Apple put in place with the studios, only iTunes-purchased movies get access to 4K streams, not second sessions.

Now I think this is dubious for many reasons: even though they’re not streaming in 4K they’re streaming above 1080p and different people have hit different resolutions on the same movie, some movies ARE streaming in true 4K for people over on the macrumors forum, if this is true it would mean there is never a way to get the true 4K movie on iTunes since your account already “owns” it, it’ll stream in HDR meaning the data is there and it knows you own the better version, the MA FAQ specifically says some places will let the movie redeem and stream in 4K, etc etc.

We’ll see what engineering says, but that’s the word from Apple so far."
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=494

Disney Launches Movies Anywhere Streaming Service
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post #6592 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 10:19 AM
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Potential issue about the supposed free iTunes 4K "upgrade" when using Movies Anywhere, people are noticing purchases from other service aren't exactly playing in 4K in iTunes even if it might be labeled as such:



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=494

Disney Launches Movies Anywhere Streaming Service
Thank you. Matches my experience exactly. Thread subscribed.

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post #6593 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Sujay View Post
Potential issue about the supposed free iTunes 4K "upgrade" when using Movies Anywhere, people are noticing purchases from other service aren't exactly playing in 4K in iTunes even if it might be labeled as such:



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=494

Disney Launches Movies Anywhere Streaming Service
Almost 24 hours later and my iTunes titles are not showing up in Movies Anywhere.

Has anyone else had this issue? Amazon, Google, and Vudu libraries are all synced for applicable titles but iTunes is still on its own little island.

I was going to disconnect and then reconnect but it throws a warning that I won't be able to link another iTunes account for 180 days once I disconnect. Not sure by the wording whether or not it mean an actual different/other iTunes account or if the 180 days applies to even the same iTunes account.
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post #6594 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Almost 24 hours later and my iTunes titles are not showing up in Movies Anywhere.



Has anyone else had this issue? Amazon, Google, and Vudu libraries are all synced for applicable titles but iTunes is still on its own little island.



I was going to disconnect and then reconnect but it throws a warning that I won't be able to link another iTunes account for 180 days once I disconnect. Not sure by the wording whether or not it mean an actual different/other iTunes account or if the 180 days applies to even the same iTunes account.


I disconnected my iTunes account and reconnected within minutes with no issue. It also forced the titles to sync over finally. Generally speaking, as someone who used to work for Apple, the warning you see only applies to trying to connect a different Apple ID within that time period.
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post #6595 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by tylerk86 View Post
I disconnected my iTunes account and reconnected within minutes with no issue. It also forced the titles to sync over finally. Generally speaking, as someone who used to work for Apple, the warning you see only applies to trying to connect a different Apple ID within that time period.
Gotcha, makes sense, thanks for clarifying.
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post #6596 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 10:40 AM
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If you have a Mac with xcode 9, follow the steps on this page under the Apple TV area: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...-9-with-ios-11

Then once you've finished that, go to the settings app on the Apple TV, and there will be a new developer section. In there you can turn on the playback hud.

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I want to surface this info again. For those that are interested in knowing the real info about what the content is mastered at (or what stream your ATV5 is getting from Apple's servers) in terms of resolution and frame rate, this "hack" is very useful.
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post #6597 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Sujay View Post
Potential issue about the supposed free iTunes 4K "upgrade" when using Movies Anywhere, people are noticing purchases from other service aren't exactly playing in 4K in iTunes even if it might be labeled as such:



http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=494

Disney Launches Movies Anywhere Streaming Service
I had a HDX movie in VUDU which now plays back on apple tv as 4K HDR. The info on my TV displays 2160p HDR BT.2020, so I assume I'm getting the HDR stream even though I did not buy or redeem through itunes. Unless I'm missing something.
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post #6598 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 10:40 AM
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I disconnected my iTunes account and reconnected within minutes with no issue. It also forced the titles to sync over finally. Generally speaking, as someone who used to work for Apple, the warning you see only applies to trying to connect a different Apple ID within that time period.
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Gotcha, makes sense, thanks for clarifying.
Shoot, OK, maybe I am missing something obvious but I go to disconnect iTunes, it calls up the iTunes app and brings up my "Account Information" page but I am not seeing any options to disconnect Movies Anywhere, just my billing information, computer authorizations and whatnot.
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post #6599 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by akadennis View Post
I had a HDX movie in VUDU which now plays back on apple tv as 4K HDR. The info on my TV displays 2160p HDR BT.2020, so I assume I'm getting the HDR stream even though I did not buy or redeem through itunes. Unless I'm missing something.
you can't trust that because the apple tv 4k upscales everything to 4k hdr internally, so that output will always remain the same no matter what content you're playing.

the way people have been figuring out exactly what is being played is through developer debug statistics. (see nathan_h's post above yours)

additionally, yes hdr is working, but the issue is that you're not getting full 4k resolution through the MA syncing method.
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Last edited by Sujay; 10-13-2017 at 10:45 AM.
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post #6600 of 6864 Old 10-13-2017, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mutelight View Post
Shoot, OK, maybe I am missing something obvious but I go to disconnect iTunes, it calls up the iTunes app and brings up my "Account Information" page but I am not seeing any options to disconnect Movies Anywhere, just my billing information, computer authorizations and whatnot.


It should be showing a Disconnect option about halfway down that page...

Maybe try force quitting your iTunes Store app, then re-opening and accessing your account again. It’s actually showing as being connected to your account in the Movies Anywhere app, right?
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