Apple TV owners' thread. - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 3109 Old 05-31-2011, 07:48 PM
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Wow. Nevermind. I figured it out. Looks like it does work with 4.2.1 on my 2G. Sweet. I haven't been this happy in a while. I love Apple!

Currently in the "Design" Phase of my new Theater build

He who buys cheap, buys twice
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post #812 of 3109 Old 05-31-2011, 07:51 PM
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For anyone else reading this having the same issue... I simply had the volume control option turned off in the Sirius app preferences. Once I enabled it in the preferences, the airplay icon was right there next to the volume control.
This feature might've just made my summer.

Currently in the "Design" Phase of my new Theater build

He who buys cheap, buys twice
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post #813 of 3109 Old 06-06-2011, 12:28 PM
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starting to digest the implications of iCloud and iTunes Match. iTunes Match will put my entire ripped cd collection on the 'cloud' and make it accessible by all my "i" devices....for $25 per year?

hmmmm....
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post #814 of 3109 Old 06-06-2011, 03:02 PM
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True, but then again you could just upload your ripped collection to Amazon or Google Music and pay nothing (at least for now). You can access it from anywhere you have internet.

Not sure on this new iCloud service yet.. be interesting to see how it shakes out when more of the fine print emerges.
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post #815 of 3109 Old 06-06-2011, 04:40 PM
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so it looks like you can download your non-itunes-purchased music to your other devices, but it is not streamed to these devices. nor is it streamed from the cloud to the Apple TV? well....nevermind.
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post #816 of 3109 Old 06-06-2011, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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In line with the other iTunes services for the ATV, so far iTunes in the Cloud (iCloud)is not a streaming service. It's a sync service. I certainly appreciate the fact that Apple considers streaming services to be often less than robust (and never robust when mobile but the ATV isn't a mobil device).

Although iCloud looks something like the offerings from Amazon and Google it's quite different. Apple again differentiates an offering using tight integration into the iTunes ecosystem. Plus they've done what neither Amazon was willing to try or what Google could manage and got the labels to sign off on an upload-optional music locker.
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post #817 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 07:18 AM
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The big question for me is how does the music match service work. I am fine with paying $25 one time to "validate" my files into the iCloud, or whatever that means, but I refuse to pay $25 a year to listen to music I already purchased. Half of these songs I even ripped from CDs via iTunes, yet I have to pay to listen to them through this service? If the case is that once you "validate" the songs, you own the valid copy, then I am game, but my gut tells me you will have to maintain the $25 a year for the permission to listen to that music.

For me, that means that Amazon or Google is a better option, as I won't have to pay anything and still have access to my music. The big difference of course being that I cannot listen to anything if I don't have internet access!

As with anything, this will be perfect for some, not so for others. Glad we have yet another option to choose from!
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post #818 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slates View Post

I refuse to pay $25 a year to listen to music I already purchased.

It looks like the fee is annual but I haven't looked closely. I assume you mean you don't want to have to pay if you're not adding any new songs.

edit: so I looked closely. It's an annual fee.
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post #819 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 09:30 AM
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So this new apple music feature is better for people who purchase music from iTunes

But not good for people who download music or ripped music from there cd's???

Amazon or google is a better for the second option ?
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post #820 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TatorTot View Post

So this new apple music feature is better for people who purchase music from iTunes

But not good for people who download music or ripped music from there cd's???

Amazon or google is a better for the second option ?

Its unclear at the moment.....

There is going to be cost associated with storing CD's in the cloud. It costs google and amazon and apple money and they have to make revenue.

Its unclear to me at the moment how all this will shake out. still too early to tell as I can't actually use icloud or google music YET!

Sean
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post #821 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slates View Post

The big question for me is how does the music match service work. I am fine with paying $25 one time to "validate" my files into the iCloud, or whatever that means, but I refuse to pay $25 a year to listen to music I already purchased.!

A few details..

iTunes Match will be available for $24.99 a year for an unlimited number of songs, Jobs said. He compared it (favorably, of course) to Amazon (NSDQ: AMZN) and Google’s just-launched music services, noting that Apple’s service will bypass the extremely long uploading times that both Amazon and Google’s music lockers require.

Building off the work that Lala did before it was acquired by Apple, the new service scans your hard drive for songs that were ripped from CDs or obtained from other (read: questionably legal) sources. If Apple detects a match with one of the 18 million songs available through the App Store, it will replace that file on your hard drive with the same song in Apple’s AAC format, free of any DRM technology. If it can’t find a match for a song, it will upload it into iCloud, giving you access to that song across all your other iOS devices.


http://paidcontent.org/article/419-w...ves-to-icloud/

My complete guess is you will have to subscribe to Match yearly if you want to access any of the tracks it couldn't match. Once it matches a song I presume it would be treated as purchased tracks since it was converted.
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post #822 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 09:45 AM
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If you dont like the idea of paying someone run your own cloud using plex. I have been loving plex lately on the iPhone and iPad. watch my LAN content anywhere over 3G or wifi. works great....

Sean
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post #823 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

A few details..

iTunes Match will be available for $24.99 a year for an unlimited number of songs, Jobs said. He compared it (favorably, of course) to Amazon (NSDQ: AMZN) and Google’s just-launched music services, noting that Apple’s service will bypass the extremely long uploading times that both Amazon and Google’s music lockers require.

Building off the work that Lala did before it was acquired by Apple, the new service scans your hard drive for songs that were ripped from CDs or obtained from other (read: questionably legal) sources. If Apple detects a match with one of the 18 million songs available through the App Store, it will replace that file on your hard drive with the same song in Apple’s AAC format, free of any DRM technology. If it can’t find a match for a song, it will upload it into iCloud, giving you access to that song across all your other iOS devices.


http://paidcontent.org/article/419-w...ves-to-icloud/

My complete guess is you will have to subscribe to Match yearly if you want to access any of the tracks it couldn't match. Once it matches a song I presume it would be treated as purchased tracks since it was converted.

I guess that leaves lossless users out in the cold....

I need to read up on this. I was busy at Laguna Seca yesterday and am not caught up on apples announcements yesterday.
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post #824 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_w_smith View Post

I guess that leaves lossless users out in the cold

I think it's a bit premature to draw conclusions however I don't think Amazon or Google support lossless.

In any case why would you want to (spend "weeks" to) upload 100s of gigabytes of data to Apple servers just to download them somewhere else?
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post #825 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

In any case why would you want to (spend "weeks" to) upload 100s of gigabytes of data to Apple servers just to download them somewhere else?

That's the entire philosophy behind iCloud. Syncing multiple devices (automatically).

The premise behind iCloud is simple but powerful: All your information is automatically kept up to date and synchronized across all the devices you own — PCs, Macs, the iPad and the iPhone.
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post #826 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

My complete guess is you will have to subscribe to Match yearly if you want to access any of the tracks it couldn't match. Once it matches a song I presume it would be treated as purchased tracks since it was converted.

I hope I didn't come off as biased or overly negative.. I was just guessing as well. No matter what happens, I think each service will have its merits for everyone's individual situation. If your guess is right, then I will be happy using iCloud. I don't buy CD's anymore, and don't download songs from the internet. I buy iTunes music for the most part now if I want the song.

My main concern is if I have to pay that $25 every year, or if a file truly "converts" and thus I can just pay $25 once. A followup question would be, if I decide to stop using the cloud, do I own this track? Can I send it to non-apple devices? So many details still to be flushed out!

Either way, I am excited about the possibilities.
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post #827 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slates View Post

My main concern is if I have to pay that $25 every year, or if a file truly "converts" and thus I can just pay $25 once.

My guess you'll need the service to be active to either convert tracks or store unique tracks. If you converted all of your tracks and didn't have any left to upload you could drop it after a year. If you had unique tracks and you wanted them included you would have to keep paying.

Quote:


A followup question would be, if I decide to stop using the cloud, do I own this track? Can I send it to non-apple devices? So many details still to be flushed out!

Supposedly they will replace your file with a Apple AAC DRM free version. So it should be yours forever... Beforehand just be sure to backup the original file!

Not sure how their Cloud will work with music but I see two parts to it. The first part is free... tagging your ownership to any purchased or converted track. They only need to keep one copy of these regardless of how many they sell (or convert).

The second is storing your unique tracks that don't match their available tracks. I guess they could be stored in your 5GB of other data they are offering but I'm guessing not... here's a reference...

The "one more thing" at 2011's keynote was iTunes Match. Apple on its website claims that iTunes Match is the perfect solution for taking advantage of all the benefits of iTunes in the cloud for music yet to be purchased from iTunes. iTunes Match will scan your computer for music and determine which songs are available in the iTunes store, adding the matched music to the iCloud library. This way, the user only has to upload the songs iTunes cannot match.

Even if the original copy is of low quality, all the music iTunes matches will play at 256-Kbps iTunes plus quality.

No matter how many songs you upload, the cost of iTunes Match is $24.99 per year. The number of songs is limited to 25,000, and iTunes Match will require an iOS5 device. When you upgrade to iOS5, you will have iCloud by signing in with your Apple ID to your device.
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post #828 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Building off the work that Lala did before it was acquired by Apple, the new service scans your hard drive for songs that were ripped from CDs or obtained from other (read: questionably legal) sources. If Apple detects a match with one of the 18 million songs available through the App Store, it will replace that file on your hard drive with the same song in Apple’s AAC format, free of any DRM technology. If it can’t find a match for a song, it will upload it into iCloud, giving you access to that song across all your other iOS devices.

Given that the vast majority of music on iDevices is from questionably legal sources, this is a brilliant approach. In many ways this will allow a lot of people to get on the legal road with music, a path which was truly complicated for many as they didn't even know what they bought or not ( especially with the size of some libraries).

The whole iCloud thing seems very exciting, and one hopes that Apple will not pull a mac.com stunt with charging for e-mail after many of us had moved to their service when it first came out. It was nice to hear Jobs say that that the whole mobile me, itools, etc... fiasco wasn't one of their better moments. The idea of an ad free mail service is really appealing and the syncing thing is really great. It has all become too much to the point of not knowing what to watch or listen to as there are simply too many options with media scattered all over the place.

There are going to be some very interesting options for consumers, finally. Google, Microsoft and Apple are providing us with interesting choices.

While I am not quite ready to give up on WHS, Drobo, etc ... with stored locally content I am getting fed up with maintaining a data centre that is becoming increasingly less fun to do. Mind you, we are willing to put up with slightly less video/audio quality in order to gain in other ways. That isn't for everyone.

As was mentioned in this thread Plex is an interesting compromise for those wanting flexible access to their media ( but again there are some quality compromises).

Finally, the ability of the ATV2 to mirror the iPad2 in real time looks really, really neat. If it works as it seems to then one could attach an ATV2 to a projector and have a wireless free method of presenting content ( as opposed to being constrained by a podium or having Powerpoint/Keynote pre-arranged slides and a clicker).

philip
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post #829 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

That's the entire philosophy behind iCloud. Syncing multiple devices (automatically).

Um, not quite. The point of iTunes in the Cloud is pushing all your purchases and matched music to all your devices while avoiding the whole "weeks" of uploading "hassle". People with 100s of GB of non-matched content are probably not looking forward the the "hassle" of uploads just to be able to download -- I'd just copy the stuff onto the device(s), it's faster and free.

By the way, the press release carefully avoids saying sync. Probably because it's not like calendar/contacts/document syncing.
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post #830 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

Um, not quite. The point of iTunes in the Cloud is pushing all your purchases and matched music to all your devices while avoiding the whole "weeks" of uploading "hassle". People with 100s of GB of non-matched content are probably not looking forward the the "hassle" of uploads just to be able to download -- I'd just copy the stuff onto the device(s), it's faster and free.

If they (automatically) sync tracks on up to 10 devices I call that syncing. Perhaps semantics. Are they going to do this for iTunes and non iTunes tracks? Copying stuff between devices is the easy part. Knowing what to copy and where to copy it to is the hard part. Great for syncing.
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post #831 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I think it's a bit premature to draw conclusions however I don't think Amazon or Google support lossless.

In any case why would you want to (spend "weeks" to) upload 100s of gigabytes of data to Apple servers just to download them somewhere else?

It might be but as iTunes Store does not support lossless it seems quite logical. from what I have read both amazon and google support lossless. I haven't tried out google yet as I have not received an invite but will try it once I do....

confused on your upload comment. I am currently in the process of backing up 1.2 TB of music and pics and my docs to crashplan. Its been at it for a month and has 2 to go.... no problems here.

Why upload it to something like icloud?

access my music from everywhere and have offsite backup seem like pretty desirable features to me.

Why should be I be limited to listening to music at substandard quality? Its my music and I choose to use lossless.

Sean
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post #832 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

If they (automatically) sync tracks on up to 10 devices I call that syncing. Perhaps semantics. Are they going to do this for iTunes and non iTunes tracks? Copying stuff between devices is the easy part. Knowing what to copy and where to copy it to is the hard part.

I suspect Apple will want to (but apparentlyy has already failed) to make the distinction between syncing things like apps, contacts and calendars where every device can read/write and multi-device push from iTunes where the iOS device is a write only. This is actually what iTunes does today. They're just moving the controlling iTunes to their servers and letting you have 10 auto-loaded devices instead of an unlimited number of manual devices.


I'm sure this will be a win for some people although I'm not sure how it helps the ATV2.
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post #833 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

I suspect Apple will want to (but apparentlyy has already failed) to make the distinction between syncing things like apps, contacts and calendars where every device can read/write and multi-device push from iTunes where the iOS device is a write only. This is actually what iTunes does today. They're just moving the controlling iTunes to their servers and letting you have 10 auto-loaded devices instead of an unlimited number of manual devices.


I'm sure this will be a win for some people although I'm not sure how it helps the ATV2.

Doesn't seem at this point that it has any real impact on the ATV2 but maybe its just too soon to see....

Sean
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post #834 of 3109 Old 06-07-2011, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_w_smith View Post

It might be but as iTunes Store does not support lossless it seems quite logical. from what I have read both amazon and google support lossless.

The Google walk-through I read said they convert uploaded music to MP3. I don't think I'm sufficiently motivated to test it but I might.

Quote:


confused on your upload comment. I am currently in the process of backing up 1.2 TB of music and pics and my docs to crashplan. Its been at it for a month and has 2 to go.... no problems here.

Why upload it to something like icloud?

access my music from everywhere and have offsite backup seem like pretty desirable features to me.

I'm not willing to wait a month to get my data back even if it's just music. I backup my primary server (2.5 of 5TB) to lesser quality storage and keep a copy at work.
Quote:


Why should be I be limited to listening to music at substandard quality? Its my music and I choose to use lossless.

Sure, so do I which is why I won't be uploading my music to a music locker.
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post #835 of 3109 Old 06-08-2011, 07:12 AM
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I know it is not typical Apple, but I wonder if it wouldn't be a good move for them to open the iCloud service to non-iDevices. Surely they recognize the trend, of Android devices surging in popularity. If they could offer their service across devices, they could lock more people into their ecosystem and eventually attempt to win them over with new hardware. Surely they also have some ideas on how they can monetize the iCloud, via advertising, selling of consumer info (anonymized of course!) and so on.

I know the argument, that they might not sell as many of their devices, but I am not so sure. The iCloud would always be the best with iDevices, and that could be great bait down the road.
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post #836 of 3109 Old 06-08-2011, 09:00 AM
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Personally, I'd rather they didn't.
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post #837 of 3109 Old 06-08-2011, 11:15 AM
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I'm in the process of uploading all my music to Google Music and I've also used Amazon's Cloud service, but one drawback with Google Music is that unlike the others, there doesn't seem to be any way to download your music after you've uploaded it.
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post #838 of 3109 Old 06-08-2011, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speavler View Post

Personally, I'd rather they didn't.

Any particular reasoning? Not sure I can think of a good reason why you wouldn't want more openness... shareholder?
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post #839 of 3109 Old 06-08-2011, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
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Any particular reasoning? Not sure I can think of a good reason why you wouldn't want more openness... shareholder?

Google open? One has to be a bit careful with that term. Apple has its solutions and part of these involve iDevices. They aren't in the business of testing compatibility with a zillion other companies, many of which are direct competitors. The iMessanger service that Apple will be using follows perfectly open standards, unlike other messaging solutions, as does Facetime. Most of OSX is just plain bsd unix, webkit is open, etc... Actually Apple has been pretty open. As far as Google is concerned, from my perspective they are basically a frontman for the advertising industry.

The so-called surge of Android can go on without Apple helping it. I for one am happy with the direction Apple is taking. Competition is good. Surely you don't expect Apple to shoot itself in the foot?

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post #840 of 3109 Old 06-08-2011, 07:00 PM
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After 2+ years..... too many calls to support it looks like apple finally accepted my $300 to upgrade all spouses 128K DRM music up to 256K DRM Free.

It was nice finally to be able to download about 400 songs she lost using Itunes 10.3

10.3 was really unstable and kept crashing probably explaining 10.3.1

I have had to kick start this thing many times today because of some 250 song limit but its still weird.

even after this I keep clicking check for purchases and more show up. Hopefully soon all her DRM'd music will be DRM Free and then I can go clean up the mess all this re-downloading is sure to create.

Its about time though....... for me there have always been 2 issues with iTunes store.

1. the DRM (no longer an issue)
2. the lossy tracks.....

Not sure any of this relates to ATV2 but really iTunes.

Sean
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