*Official* WD TV Live Hub Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 07:12 AM
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Took a quick look at the Netgear unit mentioned above, due Dec. It does provide passthrough of hi res audio. However, I did not see Netflix listed; nor a hard drive.

So does anybody know whether the bitstream limitations (with respect to hi res audio) of the WD Media Hub are hardware or software/firmware driven?
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post #542 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by originalsnuffy View Post

So does anybody know whether the bitstream limitations (with respect to hi res audio) of the WD Media Hub are hardware or software/firmware driven?

It is a firmware feature (bitstreaming DTS-HD). It will never be fixed because WD didn't pay for the licensing of the HD audio formats from DTS. DTS licensing is frankly very messy, while Dolby's licensing program is fairly straightforward.

The Nixeus Fusion HD unit with the non-Macrovision version of the WDTV Live Hub's chip has no bitstream limitations, AFAIK (please confirm on the Fusion HD thread).

Ganesh T S
Sr. Editor, AnandTech Inc.
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post #543 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 11:48 AM
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Just got a "Live Hub" hooked it up and can't find any way for it to see my Windows 7 shared video folder. It doesn't find any shared networked PC folders. My Cinema Tube found them real easy.

Any suggestions .... don't really want to RTFM right now, just want to get this working then I will read the manual. My Cinema Tube just plugged in and worked.
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post #544 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterEd View Post

Just got a "Live Hub" hooked it up and can't find any way for it to see my Windows 7 shared video folder....

Windows Live Essentials 2011 broke many devices that use an older version of SAMBA.

http://community.wdc.com/t5/Networki...ht/true/page/6

These may get you started...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post19479406

http://community.wdc.com/t5/Networki...-p/53100#M3783
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post #545 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonS View Post

Nope. No TV data. I fumbled around and threw some folder.jpg stuff into various folders, but it feels hacky to me. I'm seriously considering taking this thing back and picking up a Boxee. I don't know. Seems like too much work just to have stuff in a nice library with some data about the files.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonS View Post

Decision is made. I went and picked up a Boxee Box just to see what it had to offer. Plugged in my drive and pointed the BB to it for Music and Video. Within minutes it had stuff separated into movies, shows, and artists/albums. All with very nice cover art and synopsis data without having to drill into each file and do it manually. It has it's faults as well. The music portion of the software is lacking, but can be updated as they get to it. Online content in Canada is pretty much useless, but I didn't buy it for that anyway. It has played almost everything flawlessly. One major drawback for me was lack of a hard drive. So, now I'm in for more cash with a 1.5 TB NAS, but what the hell....

I'm in a similar boat to you. Looking for a media player for my parents. Has to have a local HD as they don't have a home network going. I thought I had found a winner in the WDTV Live Hub, but now it sounds like there's no easy way to separate videos? I was hoping for something similar to xbmc's UI where TV Shows can be separate from movies (with TV shows consolidated by season) . From your experience, it sounds like this is not possible.

Are all videos lumped into a single list? If I had multiple seasons of various tv shows along with a few dozen movies, would all video files be in one list? Or would I navigate first to the TV show I want to watch, then select the season, then the specific episode?

Thanks,
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post #546 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 01:12 PM
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Apparently, the Hub will be getting Hulu plus:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post19503665

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post #547 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 02:09 PM
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Great news! I hope we get it soon. I would love to have it on my Hub and Live Plus devices
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post #548 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbryanr View Post

Windows Live Essentials 2011 broke many devices that use an older version of SAMBA.

http://community.wdc.com/t5/Networki...ht/true/page/6

These may get you started...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post19479406

http://community.wdc.com/t5/Networki...-p/53100#M3783

Great. This is getting packed up and returned to Best Buy tomorrow. Unfortunately my wife uses L.E. Email app and won't switch. I tried all the "mods" and they didn't help so it's probably W.L. WDC is going to have major returns because of this. Unfortunately WDC is the one that has to fix it and my guess is they won't for a LONG time if not never.
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post #549 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 03:38 PM
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According to the WD forums, DTS wouldn't even ALLOW a DTS-HD license! According to WD, DTS refuses to grant a license to ANY media player that does NOT have an integrated BD Optical Drive.

I tend to think the other companies are doing WITHOUT a license, which implies one of two things:

1) Most player makers are doing it illegally.
2) Passthrough of HD Audio does NOT require a license (note that none of the streamers I've seen show a DTS HD-MA logo, but still do it...)

I, for one, do not understand why passthrough would require a license. Because really the box isn't DOING anything other than moving bits.

My Ethernet Network moves the same bits... and they don't demand a passthrough license for that!

I think the wrong people at WD are telling the technical folks what to do...
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post #550 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 04:38 PM
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WDTV LIve Hub Review:

Summary:

I own multiple WDTVs (Live, 2.0 and Live+). I've also owned the Patriot Box office and the Asus Oplay Live. To sum it up: They are all crap compared to this player. The Hub has a dramatically improved software interface (Mochi), the remote is way better and customizable, It includes a 1tb internal drive for $200, it has a power switch, it can play header compressed dts audio files out of the box, it has a gigabit ethernet port, it has higher quality analog audio connections, it boots way faster, Metadata comes from themoviedb.org and it has a customizable background and screensaver. It can stream TrueHD enabled MKVs but not DTS HD MA. I'll bet user modified firmware with fully enabled bitstreaming will be in development VERY soon. On the other hand the Boxee Box and the Neotv 550 both look stellar. The Boxee in particular has an incredible amount of flexibility.

Interface: The old WDTVs/oplay/patriot interfaces had issues with speed. The menu system was not as responsive as it should have been. Accessing media via network shares often resulted in long waits to even access the drives. The Live Hub is extremely responsive. There are no long waits to access network shares on either of my routers. The customizable screen saver and backgrounds are terrific. The built-in network sharing and Itunes interface are ideal. The remotes interaction with the new interface is dramatically improved but it takes a little bit to get used to the new button placements. I really can't say enough about the new UI, it's worth the extra money even if you don't need the hard drive. It's actually making me hate the previous generation of devices.

Hardware: Where do I start? It looks way better than the old WDTV. It has a power button but I haven't seen it freeze once yet which is a feat in and of itself. It has 3 usb ports. THe gigabit network jack is largely useless at this point. I get 5MBps on 10/100 and those of you with Gigabit are only reporting 10MBps. The chipset isn't perfect but none of them are.

New Competitors: I am also looking forward to the Dlink Boxee Box and the Realtek NeoTV 550. I'll buy a Boxee Box for testing, it has me curious. With Boxee you have a single location for all streamed and local media but I live in Canada so streamed media is probably a couple of old Simpsons episodes. When you have hundreds of albums, dvds, blurays and photos it's just not a good idea. I heard Boxee is working on a fix for that so users can better manage their collections. No matter how good the Boxee is, it doesn't come with a terabyte in it. THe Realtek looks terrific from this early review but it's not out yet. http://havetheknowhow.com/Hardware-r...iew-page6.html

Conclusion: The WDTV Live hub is ideal for the wives. Sure it may not bitstream but they don't give a **** about that anyway. It's easy to use and more reliable than anything else I've tried. For those of you that travel I think this may be the best portable high def porn collection a man could ever hope for. Just think: You can delete your bestiality porn collection from the work laptop! Bonus!


Quick note to defend WD Development and support teams:

I'm tired of people blaming WD for changes in MKV encoding apps that result in no audio in DTS encoded MKV files. I am referring to DTS encoded files with header compression enabled. For the last 4 months the release groups have been using header compression and this caused issues with almost every streaming device out there (All wdtvs, PS3, xbox, oplay, patriot and I'm sure Popcorn hour too). WD has finally found a solid fix for this (2 days ago) and ALL network enabled WDTVs should be prompting you for the firmware update by now.

WDTV LIve 1.03.49:
What's in this update?

Release 1.03.49 (11/16/10)
Resolved HDMI negotiation issue found in previous firmware release.
Resolved HDMI auto resolution selection issue.
Resolved HDMI Video Output - 24Hz and 50Hz modes not working.
Resolved HDMI screen flicker issue.
Resolved playback issues related to mkvmerge. (Header Compressed MKVs + DTS)
Improved thumbnail caching.
Resolved MP4 problems with seeking and audio stopping.
Resolved MP4 poor frame-rate and audio out of sync.
Resolved File Share group name – No longer requires all group names to be the same. (Reset to factory defaults required)
Resolved various user interface translation issues.
Added Mediafly application.
Added DVD Navigation support.
Added .MOV chapter support.
Added wireless adaptor support for ASUS USB-N13.
Added security when mounting a network share on password protected local drives.
Resolved aspect ratio issues.
Resolved subtitle encoding for Big 5.
Resolved resume remembering previous audio selection.
Resolved IDX +_SUB positioning issue causing video freeze.
Resolved PGS subtitle becoming frozen while using the delay function.
Resolved Network share intermittent detection issue.
Resolved undetectable 4TB My Book.
Resolved large capacity video file (.ts) unable to play issue.
Resolved DVR-MS video stops when fast forward at 6x.
Resolved Buffalo G300N not enumerating.
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post #551 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevonS View Post

Decision is made. I went and picked up a Boxee Box just to see what it had to offer. Plugged in my drive and pointed the BB to it for Music and Video. Within minutes it had stuff separated into movies, shows, and artists/albums. All with very nice cover art and synopsis data without having to drill into each file and do it manually. It has it's faults as well. The music portion of the software is lacking, but can be updated as they get to it. Online content in Canada is pretty much useless, but I didn't buy it for that anyway. It has played almost everything flawlessly. One major drawback for me was lack of a hard drive. So, now I'm in for more cash with a 1.5 TB NAS, but what the hell...

So, long story short; the WDTV Live Hub is going back. It's a nice attempt at a few things, but unfortunately, for me, it just didn't really do anything stellar besides store my data and eventually let me watch it... when I could find it.

Thanks for this post man. As a fellow Canadian I feel your pain when it comes to Netflix, Hulu, and pretty much anything internet related. The US wonders why we pirate more per/capita than anyone else on earth... How about you guys try selling us the same stuff you sell the Americans for the same price!

Regarding the WDTV live Hub vs the Boxee Box: Your comments were very helpful and have inspired me to give the Boxee a chance. I'm going to add a comparison of the two to my review in the next few days.
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post #552 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastuch View Post

WDTV LIve Hub Review:

Summary:

I own multiple WDTVs (Live, 2.0 and Live+). I've also owned the Patriot Box office and the Asus Oplay Live. To sum it up: .

Conclusion:

The WDTV Live hub is ideal for the wives. Sure it may not bitstream but they don't give a **** about that anyway. It's easy to use and more reliable than anything else I've tried.

I just got one today and I consider myself WAY AHEAD of the "average computer user." I've been involved in IT for well over 20 years.

As good as this box "may be" if it doesn't "plug n' play" with Windows 7 it's going to die a horrible death no matter how good the box is.

I have been fighting with this thing for the last 7 hours, done every patch suggested to registry and file sharing, removed Microsofts "Windows Live 2011" completely and I still cannot get it to see any of my shared network folders. I have a Popcorn Hour and a Cinema Tube and both of them just plug in and work but this one does not.

If this is how it's going to work out of the box for Win 7 users then it will die a quick death. Mine is going back tomorrow and from what I am reading, in the short time it has been out, that I am not alone. I really have no desire to reinstall Windows 7 in order to get it working.

As you can tell I am frustrated.

Edit: I was not prompted for the .49 software nor is it available online yet for the Live HUB.
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post #553 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterEd View Post

I just got one today and I consider myself WAY AHEAD of the "average computer user." I've been involved in IT for well over 20 years.

As good as this box "may be" if it doesn't "plug n' play" with Windows 7 it's going to die a horrible death no matter how good the box is.

I have been fighting with this thing for the last 7 hours, done every patch suggested to registry and file sharing, removed Microsofts "Windows Live 2011" completely and I still cannot get it to see any of my shared network folders. I have a Popcorn Hour and a Cinema Tube and both of them just plug in and work but this one does not.

If this is how it's going to work out of the box for Win 7 users then it will die a quick death. Mine is going back tomorrow and from what I am reading, in the short time it has been out, that I am not alone. I really have no desire to reinstall Windows 7 in order to get it working.

As you can tell I am frustrated.

I have the same issue and have been trying for a few days with no luck. I'm really frustrated and the only thing keeping me from returning the unit is that it plays all my movies from my external 2TB HDD attached to it. I've been also trying to get the iTunes server to work and my Win7 system can only see the songs on the Sample Media folder on the Hub
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post #554 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candre23 View Post

The live hub will certainly do that.

If you're streaming everything over your network and don't need the internal HD, then the boxee box is a better piece of hardware. Once XBMC gets ported to it, it will be pretty much perfect.

The live hub is great for what it is though, and if you already have one and only want to do the stuff that it already does just fine, then why not keep it?

I guess I won't know unless I try it; I'll hook it up in the next few days and post my experiences.
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post #555 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 07:13 PM
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Weird, I'm running Windows 7 64bit and I've had no problems. Just shared the folders in Windows 7 file management and they showed up on the wdtv. I granted access to everyone (Local network).
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post #556 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WDFan1970 View Post

I, for one, do not understand why passthrough would require a license. Because really the box isn't DOING anything other than moving bits.

The whole point of DRM is so that you can't legally move bits without a license. HD audio (like DTS-MA) uses something called protected audio path, which (in theory) should prevent any non-licensed device from passing it. In practice, it's long since been worked around. But big companies with something to lose still have to abide by it, or risk big lawsuits.
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post #557 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by candre23 View Post

The whole point of DRM is so that you can't legally move bits without a license. HD audio (like DTS-MA) uses something called protected audio path, which (in theory) should prevent any non-licensed device from passing it. In practice, it's long since been worked around. But big companies with something to lose still have to abide by it, or risk big lawsuits.

why cant they convert ito to LPCM, keeping bitrate?
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post #558 of 2247 Old 11-17-2010, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastuch View Post

Weird, I'm running Windows 7 64bit and I've had no problems. Just shared the folders in Windows 7 file management and they showed up on the wdtv. I granted access to everyone (Local network).

Did you download "Windows Live 2011" as part of some recent Win7 updates? Look in your control panel "Programs and Features" for anything listed as "Windows Live." It seems that is what has killed it for some. I uninstalled it but I still can't get ANY shared folders to show up and I have 2 computers with shared folders. It's obviously a Windows issue of some sort.
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post #559 of 2247 Old 11-18-2010, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterEd View Post

I have been fighting with this thing for the last 7 hours, done every patch suggested to registry and file sharing, removed Microsofts "Windows Live 2011" completely and I still cannot get it to see any of my shared network folders.

Do you have Pro or Ultimate..if so did you try this?
Quote:


1. Start > type 'Secpol.msc' .... Navigate to 'Local Policies' > 'Security Options' > 'Network access: Restrict anonymous access to Named Pipes and Shares' ... changed from 'enabled' to 'disabled'.

2. Preform the following registry changes...
a. Navigate to 'HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\System\\CurrentControlSet\\Control\\Lsa ' ...
i. On the right side, double-click on 'everyoneincludesanonymous' and change the 'Value data' from '0' to '1'
ii. On the right side, double-click on 'NoLmHash' and change the 'Value data' from '1' to '0'
b. Navigate to 'HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\System\\CurrentControlSet\\Services\\La nmanServer\\Parameters'
i. Double-click on 'restrictnullsessaccess' and change the 'Value data' from '1' to '0' (Note: this value was allready set to 0 for me)

3. Re-boot your PC, then navigate to the network shares on WDTV Live and hopefully this will work for you to.

The registry changes may not be necessary, all you may need to do is step 1, but I did both and got it to work after a re-boot of my PC.

or this:
http://www.acryan.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2269

Also the Live Sign-In assistant causes the same issues.

Definitely not plug n play.

I like this comment:
Quote:


I'll be surprised to see a fix for that at all.

The "Fix" requires a completely new build of the Samba library and all of its dependencies and interfaces to the core code.

SAMBA.ORG only fixed this back in August; a complete re-build of the WDTV code to incorporate it probably will take longer than this box has left.

Not saying it won't happen, I just kinda doubt it. We'll see.

Just in case you have 7 more hours...this thread appeared to have some good information in one post
http://wdtvhd.com/index.php?showtopic=10285
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post #560 of 2247 Old 11-18-2010, 04:59 PM
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Ok, so I set up the hub tonight....didn't take too long. I downloaded and installed the WD Discovery tool onto my server, mapped a network drive to the hub and straight file copied a .mkv file to the WD hard drive. The .mkv file is 4.4 GB and took 6 minutes to move across my network to the hub; doesn't seem too bad to me? I watched the video section of the hub on my TV and it auto updated showing me 1 file. The movie played without issue. I did not download any new FW updates or anything. So far, so good; I have a lot to learn about it though.
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post #561 of 2247 Old 11-18-2010, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbryanr

Do you have Pro or Ultimate..if so did you try this?

or this:
http://www.acryan.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2269

Also the Live Sign-In assistant causes the same issues.

Definitely not plug n play.

I like this comment:

Just in case you have 7 more hours...this thread appeared to have some good information in one post
http://wdtvhd.com/index.php?showtopic=10285
Well, since we're on the subject, I pulled the GPL code for the latest release today. It has a much newer version of SAMBA. It looks like WD IS actively working on a fix, but it isn't done yet, as the sign in thing is still broken in this weeks fw drop... They didn't apply the SAMBA patch, but it looks like they must have redone a lot of dependencies....
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post #562 of 2247 Old 11-18-2010, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbryanr View Post

Do you have Pro or Ultimate..if so did you try this?

1. Start > type 'Secpol.msc' .... Navigate to 'Local Policies' > 'Security Options' > 'Network access: Restrict anonymous access to Named Pipes and Shares' ... changed from 'enabled' to 'disabled'.

2. Preform the following registry changes...
a. Navigate to 'HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\System\\CurrentControlSet\\Control\\Lsa ' ...
i. On the right side, double-click on 'everyoneincludesanonymous' and change the 'Value data' from '0' to '1'
ii. On the right side, double-click on 'NoLmHash' and change the 'Value data' from '1' to '0'
b. Navigate to 'HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\System\\CurrentControlSet\\Services\\La nman Server\\Parameters'
i. Double-click on 'restrictnullsessaccess' and change the 'Value data' from '1' to '0' (Note: this value was allready set to 0 for me)

3. Re-boot your PC, then navigate to the network shares on WDTV Live and hopefully this will work for you to.

The registry changes may not be necessary, all you may need to do is step 1, but I did both and got it to work after a re-boot of my PC.

This is a really great post! It helped resolve my issue with accessing network shares from my Boxee Box (the WDTV Live Hub actually worked perfectly fine without this for the same share!)

Ganesh T S
Sr. Editor, AnandTech Inc.
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post #563 of 2247 Old 11-19-2010, 11:11 AM
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It didn't work for me tried the steps and also followed the video that someone else suggested and nothing. I still cannot see my shared folders on the Hub.
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post #564 of 2247 Old 11-20-2010, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulloren View Post

Sorry,
But I am not the master of Universe with Wiki Built into My head.

lol


---

So I've read through this thread and was hoping to buy the Hub, but now I'm not so sure. My main concern is the content indexing. It seems it still doesn't update most TV shows appropriately? Did the latest firmware fix any of this?

It also isn't clear what happens when you add a new movie. Do you have to re-index the WHOLE library every time you add a single file?

I'm looking for a media player that is nice and user friendly with a built-in HD so I can take it travelling. I don't want to have to continually fiddle with it, I want it so my wife can easily use it. The Dune D1 was looking promising, but it seems a bit big. The WDTV Hub is a nice size, being a 2.5" HD.

The Boxee sounds great with it's content matches, but such a bummer there's not a built-in HD.
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post #565 of 2247 Old 11-21-2010, 04:00 PM
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So, what's the general consensus on this box? Would it be worth it for someone using it for playing DVD files, home movies (both mpeg2 and avchd), music and pictures?

Last questions. Can it sort movies and photos based on date taken in the metadata of the file? I read in the online manual that it does sort by date modified. Would this still work well for a person who wants their movies and photos in chronological order taken from different cameras stored in different folders, some taken the same day. OR, would I need to sort my files in a particular way to make them work as such on this box.

Thanks for any feedback.
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post #566 of 2247 Old 11-21-2010, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ayeaux View Post

So, what's the general consensus on this box? Would it be worth it for someone using it for playing DVD files, home movies (both mpeg2 and avchd), music and pictures?

Last questions. Can it sort movies and photos based on date taken in the metadata of the file? I read in the online manual that it does sort by date modified. Would this still work well for a person who wants their movies and photos in chronological order taken from different cameras stored in different folders, some taken the same day. OR, would I need to sort my files in a particular way to make them work as such on this box.

Thanks for any feedback.

Well, as history will show users normally don't complain when things are going good or semi good. I guess the consensus is the hub is working (i would assume) for the majority of the owners.

This thread as been slowing down a lot lately IMO.

Look how busy the Boxee Box thread is.
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post #567 of 2247 Old 11-21-2010, 08:06 PM
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is there anyway to make my own xml file or edit one
some of my movies dont show up and i would like to make my own
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post #568 of 2247 Old 11-22-2010, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by reecycup View Post

is there anyway to make my own xml file or edit one
some of my movies dont show up and i would like to make my own

I dont know about editing a xml but the hub pulls the file from themoviedb.org. You can go there and make your own. I signed up and made one for my daughters Nickjr dvds that had no info.
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post #569 of 2247 Old 11-22-2010, 09:00 AM
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Considering getting a WD TV Live Hub at the first of the month.

If each individual movie is in its own folder, should I have both a filename.jpg AND a folder.jpg to generate thumbnails of both the file inside a folder and a folder when browsing folders?

I imagine the folder.jpg images are used in folder view, and the filename.jpg would be used in "All Videos" or when browsing inside folders in folder view. Correct?
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post #570 of 2247 Old 11-22-2010, 09:08 AM
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I am still experimenting with this unit. In my home network, there is an advantage to local storage. For some reason, I just do not get terrific throughput with the ethernet over powerline backbone. In fact, traffic slowed further when I tried a Belkin that supposedly was gigabit speed capable.

Some day at some time I will be using the hdmi to hook this to an appropriate receiver. Today I am in component mode. But when I get to hdmi....I will probably want to see all the cool lights on the receiver light up when playing files with hi res audio.

I realize that there is some kind of licensing issue with supporting dts hd ma (etc.) for hdmi pass-through. At the same time, it appears that the firmware code is provided under gpl.

Is anybody hacking the firmware to provide the pass-through (or planning on doing so?).
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