Synology DS1511+ first look (mini review) - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 581 Old 06-25-2012, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Lush78 View Post

I installed synctoy on my whs when i did my first transfer to my synology... now i use synctoy to backup my synology to my whs... works great and very easy to use...

This is also good advice, SyncToy uses something like Robocopy "behind the scenes" but has a simple GUI to make things easier to set up.
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post #362 of 581 Old 06-26-2012, 02:40 AM
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Just read through all the info here & good info for what I would eventually like to do but I'm WAY behind on the learning curve. Question, I didn't pick up an answer to the Sans Digital added via usb issue. Does the Synology see this as multiple drives?

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post #363 of 581 Old 06-26-2012, 06:44 PM
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I can test my Sans Digital 8-bay USB tower for you, but don't have time to until Sunday.

For my WHS to Synology copy issues, I ended up not needing to use Robocopy or Synctoy after mapping both my WHS and Synology on my Win7 PC. That did the trick and I'm now getting around 34-40MB/s transfers without errors. Still, nowhere as blazing fast as copying new BD rips from my Win7 PC directly to Synology. There I'm getting 82MB/s. Pretty amazing.

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post #364 of 581 Old 07-04-2012, 10:46 AM
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I have had my DS1511+ for over a year now. I really do love the unit. I have the 1511 with a 510 expansion. After a power outage and a defective UPS, I nearly lost all my movies because I had my drives all as 1 volume across the main unit and expansion. Ultimately, after some delay, Synology was able to recover the volume. That scare got me thinking. Now, I have been running with 2 1511's and 2 510's. They are 2 completely separate NASs each with 10 - 3TB drives in each. I have the 2nd unit as a backup. I bring it online every month and have it do a file sync with the main unit. That way if I lose the main unit, I have an online backup.

I am really impressed with the performance. I have had as many as 4 bluray MKV's streaming at once with no issues. I have Dune players all over my house. I call it "Scottflix" smile.gif

Love the Synology. Makes everything better.
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post #365 of 581 Old 07-09-2012, 04:26 PM
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So, I finally tested my Sans Digital 8-bay USB and 5-bay eSata towers. For the former, each of the drives showed up as 'usbshare1', 'usbshare2', etc. I had the tower set-up as JBOD. For the latter, only the first drive showed up. So, it seems the DS1812+ doesn't support eSata port multiplication. The same thing happened with my Thermaltake 2-drive eSata docking station.

On another note, I added a DX510 with 5x 2TB drives, but could not merge them into the original 8x 3TB volume on the DS1812+. Spoke with Synology tech support (very easy to reach BTW) and they said that I needed at least 2x new 3TB drives in order to merge with my set-up. No probolem though as I simply created a new volume for my DX510 drives and added what I had there as a new share.

Now that I've had my DS1812+ for a couple of weeks, I'm really happy with its performance compared to WHS. Sure, Synology is pricey, but it delivers on performance and ease of use. I'm adding 2GB of RAM just in case, but even with Squeezebox server installed and streaming a 1:1 BD rip, I get to about 42% memory utilization. Another thing I like is whatever external USB or eSata drive you attach immediately shows up as a share you can copy files over to Synology from or even stream from.

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post #366 of 581 Old 07-09-2012, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post


Now that I've had my DS1812+ for a couple of weeks, I'm really happy with its performance compared to WHS. Sure, Synology is pricey, but it delivers on performance and ease of use. I'm adding 2GB of RAM just in case, but even with Squeezebox server installed and streaming a 1:1 BD rip, I get to about 42% memory utilization. Another thing I like is whatever external USB or eSata drive you attach immediately shows up as a share you can copy files over to Synology from or even stream from.

WHS is pretty easy to use. Did you try Plex on the Synology?

Don't feel like stealing this thread, but it has come down to crunch time for me. I have been trying to decide between a Synology 1512+, Drobo ()+ Mac Mini (have the Mini) or to replace my Acer H340 v1 with the new Acer RC111 which is like the original Acer but has a 2.5" dedicated system drive and 4 bays for 3.5" drives. Same inputs as before for the most part. It comes with 2gigs ram, 2TB drive (and the 2.5" HD) and a D525 1.8GHz Atom processor which seems to be what is used in the Synology DS712+. It is waiting for me at the store if I want it. So,

1. Synology 412+ say (or 1512+)
2. Acer RC111
3. Go Drobo

The worry I have with 1. Is the Lynux formatting so you have to back it up. Price is a bit high but worth it if it is that much better. The 412+ seems to be quieter which is an advantage.

I realize WHS2011 is the end of the road but should that matter?

Really confused at this point. What is it that makes the Synology so much better? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Am quite willing to go via any of those 3 paths.

I currently use sync toy to basically echo the shares of my HP MediaSmart EX490 with the Acer so I would probably need a similar solution for a Synology, perhaps via esata. If I went that route I would get rid of both WHS systems.

Cost is not the major issue (it is to a point) but ease of use and reliability is. Running Plex from the Synology would be a major plus.

Thanks,

Philip
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post #367 of 581 Old 07-09-2012, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Philip,

You should go with what you are comfortable with.

You need to make backups whether the underlying storage solution is Linux based, Mac based, PC based or appliance based (for what it's worth Drobo also runs a custom linux distribution). Synology does not "need" to be backed up because it's Linux. It needs to be backed up because if you have a fire, theft, flood, or massive system failure you could lose your data. The same is true of WHS, Drobo and all of the others.

It is true that if you build a WHS based solution and the system fails, that (assuming you have them in good working order) you can take the individual storage drives and recover some data from them. However, this still does not protect you from things like data corruption (WHS doesn't even detect corruption or "bit rot" which the better solutions all do), fire, theft, loss, etc. It's also worth pointing out that using SHR or RAID 5 you can take a DS1511+ with 5X3TB drives and get 11TB of usable space. With a WHS solution using redundant drives, to get 11TB of usable space would require 8 disks (4 disks X 3TB minus formatting). So, you will spend more on drives.

With any "linux" based solution, if the system fails and your drives are intact it should be possible to put those drives into an enclosure and attempt data recovery. However, if you are backing your stuff up (which you should be doing) this is less of a concern. You can spend money on a backup solution or you can take a gamble on your solution failing you, and possibly spending far more money with a data recovery service. This goes for WHS just as well as it goes for Mac, Drobo, Synology, etc.

Synology units cost more because they provide small/medium business level support, a 3 year warranty, the units are built with very good parts and they are very low power consumption (my DS1511+ with 5 drives uses about 40 watts and provides about 7TB of storage. My WHS with an external eSATA enclosure and slightly less storage was consuming over 100 watts). They are also very easy to set up.

They are not for everybody, but certainly, compared to a Drobo hooked up to a Mac Mini, the Synology would be easier to set up, use less power, be more expandable and I would imagine cost quite a lot less (Drobo + Mac Mini is probably around $1300 or so without hard drives.. DS1512+ is about $800).
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post #368 of 581 Old 07-09-2012, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post

So, I finally tested my Sans Digital 8-bay USB and 5-bay eSata towers. For the former, each of the drives showed up as 'usbshare1', 'usbshare2', etc. I had the tower set-up as JBOD. For the latter, only the first drive showed up. So, it seems the DS1812+ doesn't support eSata port multiplication. The same thing happened with my Thermaltake 2-drive eSata docking station.
Which 5 bay Sans Digital do you have? The guy in the thread linked below claims his RAID5 array is seen as a single drive. I was leaning in this direction but am unsure now that you did not have success with your setup.

http://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=52670
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post #369 of 581 Old 07-10-2012, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by praz View Post

Which 5 bay Sans Digital do you have? The guy in the thread linked below claims his RAID5 array is seen as a single drive. I was leaning in this direction but am unsure now that you did not have success with your setup.
http://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=52670
TowerRAID TR5M-B, but in JBOD mode, so maybe it was why Synology only detected one bay's HDD.
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

It is true that if you build a WHS based solution and the system fails, that (assuming you have them in good working order) you can take the individual storage drives and recover some data from them. However, this still does not protect you from things like data corruption (WHS doesn't even detect corruption or "bit rot" which the better solutions all do), fire, theft, loss, etc. It's also worth pointing out that using SHR or RAID 5 you can take a DS1511+ with 5X3TB drives and get 11TB of usable space. With a WHS solution using redundant drives, to get 11TB of usable space would require 8 disks (4 disks X 3TB minus formatting). So, you will spend more on drives.
When transferring my movies & TV shows from my EX490 set-up, I had about a dozen or so files that would stop copying part-way. I was worried they had gotten corrupted, which turned out to be true for one of the copies WHS kept (as part of duplication) of each of those files. Thankfully, I was able to get an uncorrupted copy of each of the files from the other HDDs WHS had kept them in. WHS was mostly good to me, but it had its issues, and they were often tricky to diagnose based on IMO cryptic error messages it provided. Sometimes letting WHS 'fix' the HDD issues did the trick, sometimes simply rebooting made the issues go away, etc.

HD Media Keen Videosaurus
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post #370 of 581 Old 07-11-2012, 12:17 PM
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Regarding the 1512+ or 1511+ and noise. The spec sheet at Synology gives a noise level of 29db for the DS1512+ and 19db for the DS19. 29db sounds like a jet engine! Is that figure accurate in reallity?

Philip
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post #371 of 581 Old 07-11-2012, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

Regarding the 1512+ or 1511+ and noise. The spec sheet at Synology gives a noise level of 29db for the DS1512+ and 19db for the DS19. 29db sounds like a jet engine! Is that figure accurate in reallity?
Philip

29dB is "quiet room" or "whispering in library" depending on which dB comparison chart you refer to. It's not jet engine loud.

However if you are expecting something totally quiet, then the Synology is not for you. You will hear the drives (depending on model) and a small amount of fan noise. You will likely hear noise from the other solutions you are looking at also. You might wish to consider installing your storage solution in a basement, closet, etc.

FAQ_Comparisom%20pf%20sound%20pressure%20level.gif
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post #372 of 581 Old 07-11-2012, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2

You will likely hear noise from the other solutions you are looking at also.

 

The newest ReadyNAS units (DUO v2, NV+ v2) are virtually silent. I think they are based on the same ARM processor? Not in the same league feature wise but start at $129 for 2-bays. I had a 4-bay unit transferring a few TBs for a day or so and I couldn't hear it over my TiVo which is located across the room and the unit was right next to me. Now the older models I could hear several rooms away...

 

If they both are playing fair they must be similar as their specs are... no one ever cheats do they. :) The fan is temperature controlled so perhaps the rating is at the loudest. Mine typically spins at 763 RPM at 32C.

 

Typical at 1 meter distance 25 dBA (DUO v2), 31.5 dBA (NV+ v2)

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post #373 of 581 Old 07-11-2012, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post


29dB is "quiet room" or "whispering in library" depending on which dB comparison chart you refer to. It's not jet engine loud.

However if you are expecting something totally quiet, then the Synology is not for you. You will hear the drives (depending on model) and a small amount of fan noise. You will likely hear noise from the other solutions you are looking at also. You might wish to consider installing your storage solution in a basement, closet, etc.

FAQ_Comparisom%20pf%20sound%20pressure%20level.gif

Heh ... I do have my servers in the basement, but there is a TV down there for the kids and their friends. I have 2 WHS servers, a Drobo and an iOmega NAS running now down there and it doesn't bother them. I don't really watch TV there because of the noise, but it isn't too bad. Just can't stand fans;)

I was just surprised that the Synology 412+ was 19db while the 1512+ was 29db which seemed odd. One is a 4 drive solution while the other is a 5 drive solution.

That being said, I ordered the new Acer WHS 2011 box, but after trying to get information regarding GPT drives, backups, etc .... it just seemed as though few people knew about these things and all my nervousness over WHS took over and I changed the order to the Synology 1512+ and I couldn't be happier. My Mac's seemed relieved already. The 1512+ is a bit more than the 412+ but it has a longer warranty and seems more flexible. The only fault I can find with it is the fact that you need screws to attach the hard drives. I got used to screw less ways with WHS and my Drobos.

Thank you for discussing the issues involved. I am a bit sad leaving WHS but it really does seem to be the end of the WHS era. At least, that is the feeling I have. Maybe I am exaggerating things and Microsoft does have a plan for home servers. Doesn't seem to be high on their priority list.

Philip
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post #374 of 581 Old 07-11-2012, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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The DS412+ is a smaller physical enclosure and it has a single large diameter fan.

The DS1511+ is larger and has two marginally smaller fans. So, that could explain the difference in quoted noise level.
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post #375 of 581 Old 07-11-2012, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

The DS412+ is a smaller physical enclosure and it has a single large diameter fan.

The DS1511+ is larger and has two marginally smaller fans. So, that could explain the difference in quoted noise level.

I think i am getting confused with the fans I experienced in media players. They would quote very low db levels but I would hear this whining and it drove me up a wall.

The DS412+ I saw had two fans and two Ethernet ports.

Philip
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post #376 of 581 Old 07-11-2012, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

I think i am getting confused with the fans I experienced in media players. They would quote very low db levels but I would hear this whining and it drove me up a wall.
The DS412+ I saw had two fans and two Ethernet ports.
Philip

The fans in media players are much smaller and they are higher pitched. They also have (typically) very low quality bearings.

I really can't hear my DS1511+ unless I put my head up near it, but then again it is a basement so even if it was louder I wouldn't particularly care.
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post #377 of 581 Old 07-12-2012, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post

TowerRAID TR5M-B, but in JBOD mode, so maybe it was why Synology only detected one bay's HDD.
Thanks for posting back. I get some time I think I'll give this a go and see how things work with the drives configured as hardware RAID.
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post #378 of 581 Old 07-13-2012, 08:58 AM
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Well retired one WHS box and the DS1512+ is slated to arrive on Tuesday!

Has anyone used a Drobo to back up certain shares? I assume there is no problem with GPT prepared drives. My initial plan is to use the Synology Raid and add four 2 TB drives and one 1 TB drive while waiting to see how the 3 TB drives perform. Would it be better to have all drives of the same size? Am a bit unclear as to how the addition of drives works. Is it the same as with a Drobo in the sense that you can continue using the Synology while it rebuilds the Raid pack?

Philip
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post #379 of 581 Old 07-13-2012, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, you can continue using the system while the RAID set is being expanded/grown. If you build with Synology Hybrid Raid, you can mix/match drive sizes, and can get an idea of the outcome here;

http://www.synology.com/support/RAID_calculator.php?lang=us

It has been reported by Brajesh that you cannot add a SMALLER drive to a volume once it is created, new drives need to be equal to or larger than the smallest size drive in the array.
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post #380 of 581 Old 07-13-2012, 10:00 AM
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Right. In my case I'd already created a volume of 8x 3TB drives when I attempted to add another 5x 2TB drives to the same volume and couldn't. I think if I had a mix of 2TB and 3TB drives in my 1812+ to begin with, I would've been able to add the DX510 with a mix as well. In any case, it may be best to plan storage needs ahead, then add all drives to volume when first building it.

In my case, not a big deal in the end as I just created a new volume. Shares on it and and the original volume all show up as part of the same server.

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post #381 of 581 Old 07-13-2012, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Yes, you can continue using the system while the RAID set is being expanded/grown. If you build with Synology Hybrid Raid, you can mix/match drive sizes, and can get an idea of the outcome here;

http://www.synology.com/support/RAID_calculator.php?lang=us

It has been reported by Brajesh that you cannot add a SMALLER drive to a volume once it is created, new drives need to be equal to or larger than the smallest size drive in the array.

Thanks for that link. I had been looking for such a calculator. So if I go with 4 2TB drives and 1 1TB drive what would happen if a 2TB drive failed? Would you have to replace it with a 2TB drive or could you put in a 1 TB drive?

Have you used time machine with your unit?

Philip
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post #382 of 581 Old 07-13-2012, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post

Right. In my case I'd already created a volume of 8x 3TB drives when I attempted to add another 5x 2TB drives to the same volume and couldn't.

 

Not sure about the Synology models but some manufacturers have restrictions on how much larger you can increase the RAID (certain percentage of the initial size) and a maximum RAID size. From my understanding it's OS (unix) related not hardware - such as expansion index size limitations. It might be worth looking into what if any restrictions you'll have to live with...

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post #383 of 581 Old 07-13-2012, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Maximum size of a single volume on the Synology disk stations is 1 Exabyte. The only limitation currently is the size of disks and available slots. The DS1812+ can go up to 18 disks with 4TB drives so it has a maximum volume size of 72TB.

Synology did have a limitation in older versions of DSM in which a volume created with 2TB disks could not be expanded beyond about 20TB. I don't believe they have any issues like that currently, they addressed that issue back in early DSM 3 releases.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post

Another thing I like is whatever external USB or eSata drive you attach immediately shows up as a share you can copy files over to Synology from or even stream from.

That is really nice. Can you hot swap an external eSata drive?

philip
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post #385 of 581 Old 07-16-2012, 05:57 AM
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Yes, you can.

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post #386 of 581 Old 07-17-2012, 10:02 AM
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quick question, Can you switch from Synology hybrid raid 1 disk protection to 2 disk.

Was thinking of getting a system then add more hard drives later on, and switching to 2 for more protection.
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post #387 of 581 Old 07-17-2012, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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quick question, Can you switch from Synology hybrid raid 1 disk protection to 2 disk.
Was thinking of getting a system then add more hard drives later on, and switching to 2 for more protection.

Unfortunately this is not possible, you have to decide on 1 or 2 disk redundancy at time of volume creation and it cannot be changed later.
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post #388 of 581 Old 07-17-2012, 11:56 AM
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As I look at my one remaining WHS unit I was wondering if it made sense to keep both the Synology and it? The WHS could use synctoy to act as a backup instead of using a direct connect solution. I'm finding it hard to retire my HP WHS system. It's had its ups and downs but on the whole quite a positive experience. Anyone running both?

Philip
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post #389 of 581 Old 07-19-2012, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I run both.

The only things left on the WHS are DC++ client (haven't found one that will work on Synology, but I'm sure I could do this with something as simple as a net top) and Squeeze Server, which Synology can do.

So, really, there's not much left on my WHS but I run it.
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post #390 of 581 Old 07-19-2012, 02:08 PM
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I run both WHS and synology 1511 (+ 2x 510) with 15x3tb drives in raid6.... i have synctoy installed on my WHS and only turn it on once a month to backup my synology... works great as a backup...
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