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post #3511 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 06:57 AM
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I think this compress/don't compress issue is wandering back into being disrespectful. Can we move on? We all do what we do and while we might explain it, we don't need to justify and we certainly shouldn't have to defend it.

Jeff
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post #3512 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 07:01 AM
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Indeed, people. How about we just keep it technical? Help people when they ask for it, that sort of thing.

-Bill
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post #3513 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Crucially though, I'm not speaking of you, specifically. I am well aware that people conduct themselves irrationally simply because it makes them happy. I haven't been to a theater in years as well, but it has absolutely nothing to do with collecting thousands of movies.

We simply have different opinions on the matter and that's fine.

James

How is someone doing something that makes them happy irrational? People collect movies because they like movies. I think you need to get passed that point and move on with your life. I have thousands of movies because I like movies and I like having a large selection of movies, tv and video to watch without having to rely on a cable provider or internet. I own quite a few movies that I'll probably never watch. I typically buy Blu-ray movies for between $1 and $5. I just watch sites like Woot and Slickdeals and I purchase them from there as well as $4 bins and things like that. It's fun. If it's not fun for you then continue not doing it.

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post #3514 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I think this compress/don't compress issue is wandering back into being disrespectful. Can we move on? We all do what we do and while we might explain it, we don't need to justify and we certainly shouldn't have to defend it.

Jeff

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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Indeed, people. How about we just keep it technical? Help people when they ask for it, that sort of thing.

-Bill

This touches on one of my points of bringing encoding into this thread. If you want to keep this thread as a Strictly Ripping only thread then everything has pretty much already been said and it might as well be locked. The only questions that get asked have already been answered in the thread multiple times.

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post #3515 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 07:57 AM
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Then I guess it's time to start "Ripping Blu-Rays III"

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post #3516 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 08:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Well, they don't say (that I have found) what is inside, nor do they give power consumption specs so we can't cross it that way either. The price is killer, but I need to know exactly what I am getting. Plus, removing the drive from the enclosure voids the warranty.

.. just sayin' ...

Jeff
Then pay extra for what you want. I was not posting this for you only. I have opened these drives and all of mine were green. Anyone whining about ANY Name brand 2TB drive for $55 is crazy imo..
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post #3517 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by itznfb View Post

How is someone doing something that makes them happy irrational? People collect movies because they like movies. I think you need to get passed that point and move on with your life. I have thousands of movies because I like movies and I like having a large selection of movies, tv and video to watch without having to rely on a cable provider or internet. I own quite a few movies that I'll probably never watch. I typically buy Blu-ray movies for between $1 and $5. I just watch sites like Woot and Slickdeals and I purchase them from there as well as $4 bins and things like that. It's fun. If it's not fun for you then continue not doing it.

Ok, I could give a list of few thousand behaviors that are irrational but make people happy, but I'll spare everyone and just move on. Let's just say I'll get past it.

James

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post #3518 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by comicguy View Post

Then pay extra for what you want. I was not posting this for you only. I have opened these drives and all of mine were green. Anyone whining about ANY Name brand 2TB drive for $55 is crazy imo..

I wasn't posting for only you either. And I was not whining. I was pointing out something that an informed consumer might want to take note of.

If you want pay a little less and take it apart, don't whine if it fails and isn't warranted.

Jeff
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post #3519 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 10:04 AM
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I'm not sure of the attraction for "green" drives. I have a Media-PC with 6 drives attached both internal SATA and eSATA. Win-7 is set to spin-down and idle any individual drive that is inactive for 30 min and it does that nicely. If all the drives are spun-down, only the drive being accessed is spun-up. So other than the lower power draw when the drive is actually being used, is there any other "benefit" to using a green drive?

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post #3520 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 10:33 AM
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+1. Interested to know.

James

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Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #3521 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 10:41 AM
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Some of the "green" is in manufacturing: http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=780

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post #3522 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 10:47 AM
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Depends on what you're comparing them to. The Caviar Green drives use significantly less power in Sleep, Standby and Idle as well as Read/Write modes than the Black and Blue drives. However the Red drives use less power than the Green in Sleep, Standby and Idle as well as Read/Write modes. So if power consumption is your only concern then the Reds are the way to go. If cost plays a factor then Green is the way to go.

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post #3523 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I'm not sure of the attraction for "green" drives. I have a Media-PC with 6 drives attached both internal SATA and eSATA. Win-7 is set to spin-down and idle any individual drive that is inactive for 30 min and it does that nicely. If all the drives are spun-down, only the drive being accessed is spun-up. So other than the lower power draw when the drive is actually being used, is there any other "benefit" to using a green drive?

I use them with my Popcorn hour so they are not connected to a PC to be 'controlled' - I have 8 USB connected Fantom Green drives, 1 USB HP drive, and 1 internal HD green drive (WD).

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post #3524 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 11:17 AM
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Here's a WD drive breakdown I have for my customers. These numbers are taken from WD's spec sheets not benchmarks or real world performance.


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post #3525 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb View Post


This touches on one of my points of bringing encoding into this thread. If you want to keep this thread as a Strictly Ripping only thread then everything has pretty much already been said and it might as well be locked. The only questions that get asked have already been answered in the thread multiple times.

We should be able to convince people to keep their criticisms to themselves. If we can't, then I would be in favor of reporting them to the admins/mods before we ask for the thread to be closed. It seems a shame to lose such a valuable resource of experienced members because some members can't keep their judgmentalism to themselves.

Jeff
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post #3526 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb View Post

Here's a WD drive breakdown I have for my customers. These numbers are taken from WD's spec sheets not benchmarks or real world performance.


Thanks! I am on a power consumption reduction mission in our house. We have gotten rid of some big hogs (old fridges) and now I am turning my attention to one existing always on server and a few almost always on workstations. With those boxes, I will be swapping the power supplies for more accurately sized, 80 Platinum power supplies. For the media server I visit this thread for, I thought that "greens" were my best choice. I might be unnecessarily obsessed about it, but I am willing to spend a bit more going in for less power consumption over the long run. No, I have not crunched the numbers to see where - or if - there is a ROI. I just have the sh1ts of high electric bills.

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post #3527 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

We should be able to convince people to keep their criticisms to themselves. If we can't, then I would be in favor of reporting them to the admins/mods before we ask for the thread to be closed. It seems a shame to lose such a valuable resource of experienced members because some members can't keep their judgmentalism to themselves.

Jeff

I didn't mean to close it literally. I was responding to "just keeping it technical" and talking about ripping only excluding encoding. I was just making a point about how limited the actual content is in this thread about ripping when you exclude encoding. Everything discussed about ripping recently has already been discussed. The only new content that is created in this thread is about hardware and encoding. It's not a bad thing that topics get re-discussed. I mentioned the NEW Unofficial Blu-ray Audio and Video Specifications Thread thread the other day and several people had never seen it before even though I was just reposting from a couple pages back...

So to simplify my point, if you limit the discussion to ripping only and limit it to a technical discussion only.... then you wouldn't get any new posts anyway.... so you might as well lock it.

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post #3528 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 01:06 PM
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@itznfb
Thank you very much for the power data chart; very informative. I realize a number of you don't like Seagate drives, but I do -- been using them exclusively for years -- to each his own.

Anyway, my media drives are all 2TB & 3TB Barracuda ST2000DM001 and ST3000DM001 with idle/standby/sleep power = 5.8W/0.75W/0.75W, so their power usage is very comparable to the WD Green drives. That is good to know -- I'm not sucking up a lot of extra power for the increased performance of these drives and the individual drives do spend most of their time in standby/sleep. I do like the 7200 rpm and the 200MB/s transfer rates they give me -- I actually see 200MB/s going drive to drive when transferring a BD.m2ts rip.

thanks again.

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post #3529 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Thanks! I am on a power consumption reduction mission in our house. We have gotten rid of some big hogs (old fridges) and now I am turning my attention to one existing always on server and a few almost always on workstations. With those boxes, I will be swapping the power supplies for more accurately sized, 80 Platinum power supplies. For the media server I visit this thread for, I thought that "greens" were my best choice. I might be unnecessarily obsessed about it, but I am willing to spend a bit more going in for less power consumption over the long run. No, I have not crunched the numbers to see where - or if - there is a ROI. I just have the sh1ts of high electric bills.

Jeff

Fyi... the AV-25 drives look great from a numbers standpoint but I wouldn't use them in a media server. They will bottleneck. They are more for security systems that record incredibly low framerate/bitrate 24/7.

And... the Reds are great drives. Excellent energy usage with great performance and a decent warranty. I haven't looked up the numbers for the NAS Seagate drives but I'd be willing to bet they are very similar to the Reds.

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post #3530 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itznfb View Post

I didn't mean to close it literally. I was responding to "just keeping it technical" and talking about ripping only excluding encoding. I was just making a point about how limited the actual content is in this thread about ripping when you exclude encoding. Everything discussed about ripping recently has already been discussed. The only new content that is created in this thread is about hardware and encoding. It's not a bad thing that topics get re-discussed. I mentioned the NEW Unofficial Blu-ray Audio and Video Specifications Thread thread the other day and several people had never seen it before even though I was just reposting from a couple pages back...

So to simplify my point, if you limit the discussion to ripping only and limit it to a technical discussion only.... then you wouldn't get any new posts anyway.... so you might as well lock it.

I am not on that same page and now that I think about it, it's more of a behavioral issue. What's to stop the personal attacks from following the subject to another thread? People either need to keep their criticisms to themselves or be banned.

Jeff
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post #3531 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 06:04 PM
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FlexRaid is a good soft-RAID choice for the Windows platform. It uses a parity drive that can be updated on a nightly schedule rather than continuously so it is fast. I find that very suitable for a media server since I only write to it infrequently when adding content. The parity drive can be rebuilt in the off-hours over night. For business-class storage -- where the write demands are frequent, the data more valuable and the volume of data is far far less -- I would use a hardware RAID and could easily get away with a 2-3TB RAID 1 solution.
I'll take a look into this. It sounds interesting. Can you give me the pluses over using hardware? Currently I'm using 3ware 9650se24 card, i have 3 in fact, with raid 6 implementation.
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post #3532 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I'm not sure of the attraction for "green" drives. I have a Media-PC with 6 drives attached both internal SATA and eSATA. Win-7 is set to spin-down and idle any individual drive that is inactive for 30 min and it does that nicely. If all the drives are spun-down, only the drive being accessed is spun-up. So other than the lower power draw when the drive is actually being used, is there any other "benefit" to using a green drive?
For people that don't spin their drives down. Myself for example. If I spin my drives down then my other devices will lose their mapped network drive connection to these spun down drives. It will return to normal but it could require you to reset your network connection. It's a pita heh.
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post #3533 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 06:14 PM
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For people that don't spin their drives down. Myself for example. If I spin my drives down then my other devices will lose their mapped network drive connection to these spun down drives. It will return to normal but it could require you to reset your network connection. It's a pita heh.

Spinning down shouldnt effect the map it will just take it a few seconds to give the data when you access the next time. I just started doing this with my FlexRaid server.

Btw whoever mentioned doing it thanks it never occurred to me to do it, lol.

Bill
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post #3534 of 6194 Old 07-16-2013, 06:19 PM
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Spinning down shouldnt effect the map it will just take it a few seconds to give the data when you access the next time. I just started doing this with my FlexRaid server.

Bill
It affects mine. Spin up on multiple drives when they spin up two at a time at 1-2 second intervals takes time to do. Enough time in fact to give my windows machine trying to connect to the spun down array some network errors that makes it take even longer to connect. It would be acceptable behavior if I wasn't trying to connect to it via htpc which I want on in seconds not 10s of seconds.
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post #3535 of 6194 Old 07-17-2013, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

I'll take a look into this. It sounds interesting. Can you give me the pluses over using hardware? Currently I'm using 3ware 9650se24 card, i have 3 in fact, with raid 6 implementation.
Let me first say that I do not have a full FlexRAID implementation; I have been playing with the trial version on my media-PC. So far I have not found anything I don't like and will do the full implementation the next time I can catch a 3TB Seagate Barracuda on sale for $110.

For video storage and serving, I find FlexRAID to have a number of pluses over hardware RAID. With FlexRAID:
  • You can add drives of any size to the array -- the only requirement is that the parity drive must be as large as the largest drive in the array
  • You can add drives incrementally as needed without having to destructively rebuild the array
  • Drives are NTFS formatted and files are stored on single drives -- the whole array does not have to spin up to play a movie
  • Any drive can be accessed independently of the array by drive letter -- you can decide where to put a file or let the array decide; you can detach a USB drive from the array and attach it to another device for file exchange
  • You can have multiple parity disks if the array gets large
  • If desired, you can segregate your drives into multiple arrays -- i.e two 5 disk arrays with 1 parity drive each instead of one 10 disk array with 2 parity drives
  • The parity drive gets updated on demand or via nightly schedule -- the lack of continuous updating makes it fast

FlexRAID is extremely flexible. I feel these features are major pluses for a content storage system where nightly or on-demand updating of the parity disk is more than adequate. I would not use FlexRAID for high traffic business class data that demands continuous protection. For that I would choose hardware RAID 1 or 5 and I would choose it at the enclosure level -- either NAS RAID or eSATA RAID enclosures like the Mediasonic HUR1-SU3S2 or HFR2-SU3S2 -- rather than a RAID card and dumb enclosure.

- kelson h

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I have stuck with my less efficient 1:1 redundancy using Stablebit on my server (WS2012E)

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post #3537 of 6194 Old 07-17-2013, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

For people that don't spin their drives down. Myself for example. If I spin my drives down then my other devices will lose their mapped network drive connection to these spun down drives. It will return to normal but it could require you to reset your network connection. It's a pita heh.
I have never seen that at all. My media-PC and both my NAS units spin down their drives and I have never lost a drive mapping on any device. I don't see why it should since you are not talking directly to the drive but to the interface that controls the drive and that doesn't sleep. At the most the device has to wait for the drive(s) to spin up before it gets access to the file requested.

The worst problem I have seen with spun-down drives is that my WD Live-SMP will occasionally throw up an "unsupported file type" error message when I request access to an .m2ts file and it has to wait for the drive to spin up. I usually wait 5 sec, click through the error message and re-access the file with no problem. This is obviously a time-out issue in the Live-SMP firmware.

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Btw whoever mentioned doing it thanks it never occurred to me to do it, lol.

Bill
You're welcome.

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I (like a bunch of others on this thread) seem to be confused about which file to rip when going through the blu ray titles in makemkv. For example I ripped expendables 2 (bad movie fyi) last night but it had almost 30 titles all basically the same size and length. Does it matter which title you chose? I just went with the one closest to the running time I found posted on the box is this the best thing to do? I simply want a fully non compressed or altered picture and HD audio.

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post #3540 of 6194 Old 07-17-2013, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Let me first say that I do not have a full FlexRAID implementation; I have been playing with the trial version on my media-PC. So far I have not found anything I don't like and will do the full implementation the next time I can catch a 3TB Seagate Barracuda on sale for $110.

For video storage and serving, I find FlexRAID to have a number of pluses over hardware RAID. With FlexRAID:
  • You can add drives of any size to the array -- the only requirement is that the parity drive must be as large as the largest drive in the array
  • You can add drives incrementally as needed without having to destructively rebuild the array
  • Drives are NTFS formatted and files are stored on single drives -- the whole array does not have to spin up to play a movie
  • Any drive can be accessed independently of the array by drive letter -- you can decide where to put a file or let the array decide; you can detach a USB drive from the array and attach it to another device for file exchange
  • You can have multiple parity disks if the array gets large
  • If desired, you can segregate your drives into multiple arrays -- i.e two 5 disk arrays with 1 parity drive each instead of one 10 disk array with 2 parity drives
  • The parity drive gets updated on demand or via nightly schedule -- the lack of continuous updating makes it fast

FlexRAID is extremely flexible. I feel these features are major pluses for a content storage system where nightly or on-demand updating of the parity disk is more than adequate. I would not use FlexRAID for high traffic business class data that demands continuous protection. For that I would choose hardware RAID 1 or 5 and I would choose it at the enclosure level -- either NAS RAID or eSATA RAID enclosures like the Mediasonic HUR1-SU3S2 or HFR2-SU3S2 -- rather than a RAID card and dumb enclosure.

This sounds pretty much the same as unRAID.

Jeff
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