Ripping Blu-Rays II - Page 151 - AVS Forum
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post #4501 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

OK, then how do you propose to get DLNA on your Panasonic BD player working without a DLNA server?
I already have a DLNA server running in the house and I tried several others previously. At the moment I'm using XBMC but that one does not do conversions.

In a perfect world, I'd find a container that would work for both Panny players and the LaCie Lacinemas I'm using.
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post #4502 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 06:58 AM
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So mezzmo on a lowly Intel NUC with quad core cpu, not using as an HTPC so video performance not an issue, maybe a 256gb mssd, 4 gigs of ram, load windows 7 via usb install, use NAS's for storage.... all very doable and with prices dropping on quad core cpu Intel NUC's not all that expensive.

Hmmmmmm......

Art was shooting for using his BDT500 to playback mkv's so as to use it and save him having to do anything else as I recall.

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post #4503 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

Art was shooting for using his BDT500 to playback mkv's so as to use it and save him having to do anything else as I recall.

Particularly to get it to do high def decoding as it's the only thing in the house that can do that. Just being cheap smile.gif
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post #4504 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 07:06 AM
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Art....

I'll let you know the results a little later today on the test of Brave and Bladerunner, DVDFab V8.2.2.9 and the BDT500.

I do not know what is different with the MKV's V8 is producing but something is clearly different and the BDT500 is happy. Same steps looks like to me, reads the mt2s file and stuffs it in an mkv wrapper.....

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post #4505 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

Art....

I'll let you know the results a little later today on the test of Brave and Bladerunner, DVDFab V8.2.2.9 and the BDT500.

I do not know what is different with the MKV's V8 is producing but something is clearly different and the BDT500 is happy. Same steps looks like to me, reads the mt2s file and stuffs it in an mkv wrapper.....

Are you delivering the file to the Panny via USB or DLNA?

When you get one that works can you post its mkvmerge -i output?
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post #4506 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 07:17 AM
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NAS via Network Drive process on the BDT500.

I have several that work. Most work. All the DVDFab V8 made mkv's work with the POTENTIAL caveat for sources with DolbyTrueHD that I include the AC3 track.

I work at home and have a on-line staff meeting at 830 AZ time. On my next break I'll check Brave and Bladrunner.

mkvmerge -i output

Has to be more to the command line like source file?

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post #4507 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 09:04 AM
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Art....

Results. DVDFab V8 made MKV of Bladerunner with DolbyTrueHD and AC3 audio did not work on first try. Was told the audio was not supported. Looked at the mkv with mkvmerge and the DolbyTrueHD was the first audio track. Which meant the BDT500 was seeing it as the audio and choking. I used MKVMerge and rearranged the audio tracks and remade the mkv. Didn't take long as it really didn't do anything but rearrange internal indexes for the audio.

It played perfectly with the AC3 audio by default.

Tested on my AIOS and it plays perfectly as well BUT I have to select the DolbyTrueHD as now the AIOS defaults to what it sees first and that is the AC3 audio.

Bladerunner made with DVDFab V8 and then the audio being rearranged works across all devices including the BDT500 on my home theater network.

I point the BDT500 to the media NAS drive, it shows a list of available movies to play, select Bladerunner, it loads and we're off to the Harrison Ford races.

Still working on Brave but thinking will have the same need to re-order its audio tracks.

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post #4508 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

Art....

Results. DVDFab V8 made MKV of Bladerunner with DolbyTrueHD and AC3 audio did not work on first try. Was told the audio was not supported. Looked at the mkv with mkvmerge and the DolbyTrueHD was the first audio track. Which meant the BDT500 was seeing it as the audio and choking. I used MKVMerge and rearranged the audio tracks and remade the mkv. Didn't take long as it really didn't do anything but rearrange internal indexes for the audio.

It played perfectly with the AC3 audio by default.

Tested on my AIOS and it plays perfectly as well BUT I have to select the DolbyTrueHD as now the AIOS defaults to what it sees first and that is the AC3 audio.

Bladerunner made with DVDFab V8 and then the audio being rearranged works across all devices including the BDT500 on my home theater network.

I point the BDT500 to the media NAS drive, it shows a list of available movies to play, select Bladerunner, it loads and we're off to the Harrison Ford races.

Still working on Brave but thinking will have the same need to re-order its audio tracks.

MKV tracks can have a flag to set them as 'default' - the player should always pick the default track regardless of what order the tracks are in.

You can set this flag when muxing with MKVMerge or better yet simply use the header editor so the change is made instantly.
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post #4509 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 09:32 AM
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I just did the move up thing. How do I use the header editor?

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post #4510 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

The Dune players also have a nasty little 7.1 that swaps out the rear and surround channels (surrounds to back and backs to surround) but that was easily fixed with me re-arranging my speakers on my AVR. There does not seem to be a fix for this since its a Dune firmware problem only.

Whoa, what?!? I've never seen this mentioned nor have I experienced it myself although there is precious little 7.1 content in my library. There is some though.

Anyone else heard of this?
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post #4511 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dfriend View Post

Whoa, what?!? I've never seen this mentioned nor have I experienced it myself although there is precious little 7.1 content in my library. There is some though.

Anyone else heard of this?

I mentioned in the Dune threads about a year ago (maybe later than that) and it's been confirmed by several other people. BTW, I spent a considerable amount of time testing that bug and using three different players and they all show the same thing so its definitely a Dune firmware issue. I think Damien sent a note to his HDi contacts to see if they could fix it but since its been so long I seriously doubt they will ever fix it.
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post #4512 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 09:43 AM
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BTW, the bug only shows up on 7.1 FLAC. Nothing else.
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post #4513 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

I just did the move up thing. How do I use the header editor?
In MKVMergeGUI > File > Header Editor

change whatever fields you need and click save.
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post #4514 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 09:51 AM
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And which fields do I need to change in order to rearrange the order in which the playback device sees the audio tracks?

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #4515 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

And which fields do I need to change in order to rearrange the order in which the playback device sees the audio tracks?

'Default Track' Yes/No
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post #4516 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 10:01 AM
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FWIW I don't think there are any Panasonic BDP's that will play TrueHD via DLNA, first thing I noticed when I purchased my BDP-75 and it didn't change when I got my BDT500. At one point I was using my WDTV for TrueHD movies and my BDP75 for DTS-MA movies both fed via Mezzmo.

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post #4517 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 10:22 AM
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Thanks for the header info. Will try it in a bit.

Bill,

Yes it seems the idea of using the BDT500 for a media server is a stretch. Mostly this has been a learning journey and might as well use it as a target to discover the pieces at play in this mkv making process as anything.

If it helps Art... in the process that is great as well.

I need to check DVDFab V9 and which *.lib files it is using to make the mkv's. I bet they are using a different "newer" version than with V8 and that would explain what I'm seeing.

If a mkv will play on the BDT500 seems it will play on pert near everything else.

Still ready to pickup a dedicated media playback device though and forget the BDT500 for such.

I need to consolidate the step by steps that have been discovered through the last few days however. Lots of information in a few days to process.

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post #4518 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post

FWIW I don't think there are any Panasonic BDP's that will play TrueHD via DLNA, first thing I noticed when I purchased my BDP-75 and it didn't change when I got my BDT500. At one point I was using my WDTV for TrueHD movies and my BDP75 for DTS-MA movies both fed via Mezzmo.
Is the BDT500 more than a DLNA client for network access? I've gotten a little confused by some of the discussion that seems to imply SMB access of MKV's?

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post #4519 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 10:40 AM
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More than DLNA device. You have to turn on Network Device Access in its setup menu and tell it the location/name of the network drive. You can then connect to the network drive and you get a full listing of the video available for playback.

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post #4520 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Is the BDT500 more than a DLNA client for network access? I've gotten a little confused by some of the discussion that seems to imply SMB access of MKV's?

I always just hit the network button and DLNA to search for servers (Mezzmo, Plex etc.) and found my movies that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

More than DLNA device. You have to turn on Network Device Access in its setup menu and tell it the location/name of the network drive. You can then connect to the network drive and you get a full listing of the video available for playback.

This I did not know.

At this point in time the only thing it will be getting used for is 3D once my 65VT60 arrives. Ever since I built the NUC for my theater and updated the video card in my office machine and ran a cable to the living room I have been using XBMC exclusively and I couldn't be happier.

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post #4521 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 11:26 AM
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It is not exactly a versatile media playback device though. As can be seen in the last few posts it is very tight in terms of what it will or won't playback. That is typically Panasonic.

Not sure why what you described as your system you need the Panasonic to do 3D.

I can do 3D with my AIOS and it isn't 1.4a. Playback is a SBS file and I have to manually tell the TV to switch to 3D but it works fine. If the AIOS was 1.4 the information to automatically switch to 3D would get transmitted of course. Given the infrequency of watching 3D to manually have to switch the TV is not that big a deal.

Back to ripping movies....

Just ripping directly from DVDFab V8 for Brave and not using MKVMerge to set the default audio to the AC3 track just as with Blade Runner did not work with the BDT500. If it sees the DolbyTrueHD first the video will play but no audio. Get a message about audio but it does not stop the playback.

Only way to manage any the mkv so the DolbyTrueHD is still present is to move it to secondary and then when playing back on my other media devices to tell it to use the 2nd audio, not the default, if I want to listen to HD Audio.

Bottom line is it works and the BDT500 can play them back IF I use DVDFab V8 to make them in the first place.

Still haven't figured that V8 V9 thing out..... Just know what works.

DVDFab V8 to make the mkv file using mkv passthrough directly from the disk.
IF bluray has DolbyTrueHD use MKVMerge to rearrange the default audio track on the DVDFab V8 made MKV.
If bluray has LPCM multi-channel and I want the mkv to play on the BDT500 leave it OUT of the mix and include only AC3 audio.

DVDFab V9 still has stutter.
MakeMKV or eac3to+mkvmerge make files the Panasonic doesn't like. FF/REW lock up the playback.
MakeMKV or eac3to+mkvmerge make files VLC and my PIVOS AIOS playback just fine.

The naming scheme for the BDT500 while initially seemed to need to be limited to 8 characters and no special characters that does not seem to be the case. Was able to playback Mummy_Returns just fine. Did not test it with a space, Mummy Returns, because my AIOS jukebox/video movie wall display does not play well with spaces.....

It is quite feasible to include LPCM Multichannel in the mkv wrapper with just a little work and using eac3to and mkvmerge BUT playback across multiple devices is not guaranteed to be successful.

If you want flexible capable networked media playback devices probably best not to look at bluray players as the hardware devices to do so. The limitations while manageable are present with most bluray players that are not present with dedicated devices. Even the Oppo bluray players are probably not the best candidates IF the main playback process is archived media files off NAS devices.

Successfully ripping blurays is more than just the software used. Success also takes into consideration how those archived files are going to be played.

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post #4522 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

It is not exactly a versatile media playback device though. As can be seen in the last few posts it is very tight in terms of what it will or won't playback. That is typically Panasonic.

Not sure why what you described as your system you need the Panasonic to do 3D.

I can do 3D with my AIOS and it isn't 1.4a. Playback is a SBS file and I have to manually tell the TV to switch to 3D but it works fine. If the AIOS was 1.4 the information to automatically switch to 3D would get transmitted of course. Given the infrequency of watching 3D to manually have to switch the TV is not that big a deal.

Older AVR (Pioneer SC-25) in the living room so I am going to utilize the dual HDMI outputs of the BDT500 fro 3d and HD audio.

Bill
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post #4523 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 12:04 PM
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Denon 3808 with HDMI 1.3 here.

The way I can do 3D via the AIOS is again using DVDFab I can rip the 3D source file to the SBS and then when that file is played back it passes through the HDMI 1.3 just fine. The Denon sees it as any other video file and doesn't care.

ASOROR who supports the AIOS walked me through it.

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post #4524 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 06:21 PM
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art.....

I've been able to address several DolbyTrueHD blurays made into MKV's and successfully played them via my BDT500. Wanted to get back to you on the steps.

As noted before I am making the mkv using DVDFab V8.2.2.9 and the mkv passthrough profile. Nothing fancy. Just use the passthrough.

Once made I open the MVK in MKVMerge. I tried just editing the audio track number and the "Default" setting via the header information. Doing such was suggested by another user. Despite changing the values in the header the resulting mkv still did not play on the BDT500 properly. The BDT500 said the audio track was unrecognized.




The information the BDT500 is looking for apparently is the track id information.




I found no way to change the ID information number in the header edit process. The only way I found to change it was to move it up the list and then change the Default setting and then remux the mkv. Only took a couple of minutes as this isn't changing a whole lot in the mkv file. The default setting for the DolbyTrueHD has to be removed of course.

The result is the AC3 track is now listed as the first audio, the default and has the track id 1.



Playback is perfect via the BDT500 and all I have to do with my other playback devices is select the HD Audio track. The default is now the AC3. Simply hitting the audio button for my AIOS, I have it programmed as an extra button on my touch screen display of my Harmony One, and I cycle to the HD audio.

There might be a way to do this track ID thing via the header edit process. I did not find one.

I grabbed all English audio tracks with DVDFab V8 but could have just kept the one English AC3 and been good to go.


Here's Brave playing through the BDT500 in the back of my house being fed off the NAS drive in my office that has Brave.mkv on it.


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post #4525 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

It is not exactly a versatile media playback device though. As can be seen in the last few posts it is very tight in terms of what it will or won't playback. That is typically Panasonic.

Just ripping directly from DVDFab V8 for Brave and not using MKVMerge to set the default audio to the AC3 track just as with Blade Runner did not work with the BDT500. If it sees the DolbyTrueHD first the video will play but no audio. Get a message about audio but it does not stop the playback.

 

For the BDT500, maybe try native M2TS file from DVDFab-BD-Copy output folder?

 

But all this MKV trouble with it? Way to much effort.

 

I would buy a WDTV-SMP (or similar) or just turn an old PC into a XBMC-HTPC.  Sounds like you want full quality HD rips (ripping only to get onto HDD). I'm the same way. I just decrypt with DVDFab and then run MakeMKV on it. Some say you can just use MakeMKV for everything. Anyway, read back in this thread for my workflow if interested.

 

Test MKVs on media player, XBMC, or even VLC.


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post #4526 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 07:04 PM
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"Worth it"

At this time with my equipment and needs yes. Better solutions to be had? Yep. But not spending money at this juncture. Quad core ARM devices already out and when they get stable probably move that way for a media playback network device.

Although the mentioned Mezzmo client on a quad core Intel NUC looks very doable.

For now mkv is common playback format.

I was not ever able to get m2ts to play via the BDT500.

I can assure you IF that was an option I would not have gone to the mkv thing.

MakeMKV is supposed to be one stop shopping but I found the mkv's had issues like with FF/REW. It is beta after all.

The BDT500 is a good unit and I'm glad to have flushed out some of the issues and "how to's" with it. That alone has made the work worthwhile.

I'm not going the HTPC route for now. Could in the future. But not an option at this time.

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post #4527 of 6154 Old 12-10-2013, 07:19 PM
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tesla...

By the way since you are using DVDFab to archive to your hard drive and have un-copy protected source file eac3to is faster and not that hard to use instead of MakeMKV.

If I can figure it out anyone can.

smile.gif

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post #4528 of 6154 Old 12-11-2013, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla1856 View Post

But all this MKV trouble with it? Way to much effort.

You would think so digging through all the stuff jsmiddleton4 is going on about here but since he does not really know what he's talking about (no offense) he's done too much unnecessary steps. So I'm gonna try to unravel this a bit:

- most standalone players like the BDT500 ignore flags in MKVs
- MKVToolnix's header editor only does this: change flags
- to make sure you get the audio stream you want, you need to mux it to first position
- DVDFab does NOT change the stream order (and apparently does not even flag properly)

So the easiest way to get an MKV with all the streams in the right or is using MakeMKV with a conversion profile.

The question remains: rip for now or for the future? I've decided to rip for the future, i.e. include HD audio streams even if my WDTV only plays back the core of it (or allows for passthrough with the new 2.01.80 update). From what I've read so far, BD standalones support less formats than media players so I personally would get a cheap player rather than spending hours on converting files (to include LCPM or whatever).

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post #4529 of 6154 Old 12-11-2013, 04:57 AM
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Except at this point MakeMKV made MKV's have playback issues. So the easiest way to get to mkv's that don't playback properly, FF/REW lockups, would be to use MakeMKV.....

Funny I came here asking for help because I don't know what I'm doing and now am told I don't know what I'm doing?

Ah.... I see......

If being told I don't know something is the price I have to pay for your help tech please save yourself the trouble next time and keep out of the discussion. The Matilda syndrome is never all that helpful. You know the Matilda syndrome? "I'm big, your small, I'm smart, your dumb, I'm right and your wrong" syndrome?

Easiest way to get to reliably made across the board for all my devices mkv's is as I've stated. Others with BDT500's most likely the same.

Do not use MakeMKV at this juncture. One day? I'm confident that one day it will be the one stop shopping software. Not today however.

Fastest is probably learning how to use the command line options for eac3to however on a decrypted video source.

Most sensible is using hardware that doesn't limit playback file options such as the BDT500.

And like most things typing it out makes it seem harder than it is. It is quite easy to use DVDFab V8 and make the MKV and then MKVMerge and address the order of the audio tracks is really easy.

I for one am keeping eye on MakeMKV because I think it will be the way to go.

Now if I can figure out if DVDFab can figure out why V9 made mkv's are problematic.......

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post #4530 of 6154 Old 12-11-2013, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla1856 View Post

But all this MKV trouble with it? Way to much effort.

I would buy a WDTV-SMP
I agree. All because he's trying to use a BD player as a streamer when it wasn't designed to be one.
Just buy a WD Live-SMP for $86 that is made to be a streamer and plays everything thrown at it and get on with life.
Now with the latest update the Live-SMP supports DTS-HD pass-through and chapter skip in MKV's.

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