Ripping Blu-Rays II - Page 169 - AVS Forum
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post #5041 of 6194 Old 02-03-2014, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

Not true. If this was true then the flac file and the original PCM file would be identical in size.

Now, I suppose you could take a flac and wrap it in PCM or vice versa but what would be the reason to do that?

The Free Lossless Audio Compression wrapper changes the file size, but convert an (L)PCM file to FLAC and that FLAC file still has digital audio (PCM) inside it.

Think Meridian Lossless Packing ...
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post #5042 of 6194 Old 02-03-2014, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

I could help out but I don't know of a free way to do it. At the very least I ended up buying anydvd for decryption. I can help you out with using my preferred front end, megui, but not so much with handbrake as don't really use that one.

May I suggest that you create a "guide" that explains your goal and work flow, and then link it in your sig?

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post #5043 of 6194 Old 02-03-2014, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

The Free Lossless Audio Compression wrapper changes the file size, but convert an (L)PCM file to FLAC and that FLAC file still has digital audio (PCM) inside it.

Think Meridian Lossless Packing ...

By that definition, all audio compression algorithms have PCM inside them, as they all start with PCM before encode, and end with PCM after decode.
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post #5044 of 6194 Old 02-03-2014, 10:18 AM
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post #5045 of 6194 Old 02-03-2014, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Question:

Does anybody here add an AC3 track to their rips using the network tank option in Clown? I saw that Damian does it in his guide so I tried it. It added 2GBs to the end product and I wasn't quite sure what the point of it was.

Question:

Has anybody combined the discs for Ben-Hur? Any timing issues that need to be worked out?
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post #5046 of 6194 Old 02-03-2014, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post

Question:

Does anybody here add an AC3 track to their rips using the network tank option in Clown? I saw that Damian does it in his guide so I tried it. It added 2GBs to the end product and I wasn't quite sure what the point of it was.

Question:

Has anybody combined the discs for Ben-Hur? Any timing issues that need to be worked out?

I don't use ClownBD anymore. However, when I used to use it I did it the way Damian did it. I strictly use MKV with HD and AC3 sound tracks.

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post #5047 of 6194 Old 02-03-2014, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post

Question:

Does anybody here add an AC3 track to their rips using the network tank option in Clown? I saw that Damian does it in his guide so I tried it. It added 2GBs to the end product and I wasn't quite sure what the point of it was.

I guess the point is to support media players that can't decode or bitstream the HD tracks. But 2GB sounds way too big for an AC3 track! My rough calculations are about 300-400MB for an average movie (based on 384 kbit/s data rate).
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post #5048 of 6194 Old 02-03-2014, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ScottJ View Post

I guess the point is to support media players that can't decode or bitstream the HD tracks. But 2GB sounds way too big for an AC3 track! My rough calculations are about 300-400MB for an average movie (based on 384 kbit/s data rate).

Daiman quoted me about the same figure you have. I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. I have the DTS box greyed. I wonder if I should be leaving that complete blank (it can be checked, greyed, or left blank).

After I ran clown I had an AC3 file, DTS file, and a CORE file (temp).

I'll run some more tests and see what happens. Am I correct in thinking the difference in size should just be the size of the AC3 track that is found in my temp file?
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post #5049 of 6194 Old 02-04-2014, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ View Post

I guess the point is to support media players that can't decode or bitstream the HD tracks. But 2GB sounds way too big for an AC3 track! My rough calculations are about 300-400MB for an average movie (based on 384 kbit/s data rate).

Yup, should be around 400MB

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post #5050 of 6194 Old 02-04-2014, 07:13 PM
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Hey guys, in MakeMKV, they always list the HD sound track with another (non-HD) sound track nested inside. Is this the DTS core? I just want the HD track, can I just un-tick the one nested below that like I have in the picture?

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post #5051 of 6194 Old 02-04-2014, 07:17 PM
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post #5052 of 6194 Old 02-04-2014, 08:12 PM
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lol, ok, thanks.
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post #5053 of 6194 Old 02-04-2014, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnBlanker View Post

Hey guys, in MakeMKV, they always list the HD sound track with another (non-HD) sound track nested inside. Is this the DTS core? I just want the HD track, can I just un-tick the one nested below that like I have in the picture?

With DTS-HDMA, it doesn't make sense to remove the core DTS track, as that is necessary for decoding the HD track.

With Dolby TrueHD, the AC3 core is extraneous and only exists for backward compatibility with older receivers.
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post #5054 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 05:15 AM
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Did i just waste my time ripping my movies?
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post #5055 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 05:17 AM
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Hey Scott I always remove that track and haven't had any issues.....
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post #5056 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnBlanker View Post

Did i just waste my time ripping my movies?

Yup, you are screwed biggrin.gif

J/k, you are fine. You are getting the DTSHD track with the core DTS. I think with MakeMKV is you just want the DTS core (not the HD extension) then you would just select the DTS only option

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post #5057 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 05:20 AM
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I rip audio just the way that is shown in the picture to give me only the lossless track.
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post #5058 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 06:29 AM
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So which one is it? Should I just check the first HD track and leave the nested one unchecked? Or check em both? mad.gif
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post #5059 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnBlanker View Post

So which one is it? Should I just check the first HD track and leave the nested one unchecked? Or check em both? mad.gif

Check the first, leave the rest unchecked. That gets you the lossless track and the core. Seems counter intuitive, but it's not.

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post #5060 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by RaggedEdge View Post

Check the first, leave the rest unchecked. That gets you the lossless track and the core. Seems counter intuitive, but it's not.
Ok, thanks. Apparently this has been discussed before. And they arrived at the same resolution as you when it comes to the DTS-MA track, check the first, leave the second unchecked.

Though there was some confusion about the Dolby THD track needing both.....Are they talking about having a surround sound format for legacy devices or the DTHD actually needs that second track.

My AVR decodes both so, personally I just want HD audio. I will never need to resort back to stereo. I will always use an AVR with my server.
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post #5061 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by johnBlanker View Post

Ok, thanks. Apparently this has been discussed before. And they arrived at the same resolution as you when it comes to the DTS-MA track, check the first, leave the second unchecked.

Though there was some confusion about the Dolby THD track needing both.....Are they talking about having a surround sound format for legacy devices or the DTHD actually needs that second track.

My AVR decodes both so, personally I just want HD audio. I will never need to resort back to stereo. I will always use an AVR with my server.

TrueHD I highly recommend checking the AC3 track as well for an mkv. Most TVs cannot decode TrueHD and many media players do not have a license to decode TrueHD as well (which is where the AC3 track would come in use). If you only ever bitstream to a device that can decode it won't be an issue but you never know

For a ts/m2ts this does not apply since the AC3 track can remain embedded in the TrueHD track

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post #5062 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by johnBlanker View Post

((snip))

My AVR decodes both so, personally I just want HD audio. I will never need to resort back to stereo. I will always use an AVR with my server.

Yep. I thought the same thing. Then one day I started streaming to my kids room (no AVR there) and had no audio on movies with only True-HD tracks. I went back and re-ripped/re-muxed some of these to include non HD audio tracks when available. Some discs have only HD audio.. and have even down-converted HD audio a few times. Had the same problem again when I setup a streamer for my sick-in-bed cousin. I wanted her to enjoy the fruits of my disc images labor, only to have her complain about no audio. She also did not have a BD player in her room. Oh well, lesson learned.

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post #5063 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Yup, should be around 400MB

Ok, I had too many boxes checked. I had the "DTS" box greyed out (options are checked, blank, or greyed out). That produced a _CORE file that was fairly large. that was my problem. So I left the DTS box unchecked completely and I got two audio files a .DTS and a .AC3. Indeed the difference came to about 400K.
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post #5064 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2011/07/06/when-ripping-becomes-personal/

I'm using the above guide to merge my LOTR discs. But when I use the cutting option on tsMuxeR GUI 2.6.11 and put the 6338 seconds into the end box, I just get an output of 6.338 seconds of the beginning of the movie. So in other words, it appears it is cutting the first 6 seconds and then outputting that. Am I missing a checkbox somewhere?
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post #5065 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Marde View Post

Yep. I thought the same thing. Then one day I started streaming to my kids room (no AVR there) and had no audio on movies with only True-HD tracks. I went back and re-ripped/re-muxed some of these to include non HD audio tracks when available. Some discs have only HD audio.. and have even down-converted HD audio a few times. Had the same problem again when I setup a streamer for my sick-in-bed cousin. I wanted her to enjoy the fruits of my disc images labor, only to have her complain about no audio. She also did not have a BD player in her room. Oh well, lesson learned.

Won't the WDTV Live smp output to stereo if you set it to?
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Guys,

Am I ever glad you started opening this can of worms on which pieces of the audio track to capture in your BR rip. I am fascinated by this stuff.

I have recently started experimenting with my rips with makemkv and handbrake, and perhaps I should seriously look into getting AnyDVD HD? My idea was to create a master image (ISO?) and use that to convert to a compressed and universally used file that I could stream to any device.

Anyway, I am no where near advanced in my collection, but I have a number of devices I would like to steam to inside and outside my home. Home theatre with AVR, XBOX One, Win 8 PC (running Plex server), Android and Windows 8 handheld devices, and Chromecast.

The audio tracks are the one where I am most confused. So if I select the Master HD Audio/Lossless track will that cover both 2 channel and 5.1 channel out put devices? And do not bother capturing the the others, 5.1 and stereo tracks? I want to make sure that if I end up sending to a device that can output surround, or to a device that only can output stereo that I am covered.

Sorry for the simpleton breakdown here, and appreciate your guys help.

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post #5067 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marde View Post

Yep. I thought the same thing. Then one day I started streaming to my kids room (no AVR there) and had no audio on movies with only True-HD tracks. I went back and re-ripped/re-muxed some of these to include non HD audio tracks when available. Some discs have only HD audio.. and have even down-converted HD audio a few times. Had the same problem again when I setup a streamer for my sick-in-bed cousin. I wanted her to enjoy the fruits of my disc images labor, only to have her complain about no audio. She also did not have a BD player in her room. Oh well, lesson learned.

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Originally Posted by johnBlanker View Post

Won't the WDTV Live smp output to stereo if you set it to?

Maybe now. The WDTV Live and SMP was crippled by DTS-HD for so so long.

At the time I experienced these HD audio problems, my playback streamer was (and still use it) a Tvix 6500. The Tvix had rock solid HD video and audio performance long long ago. While streaming on my HD Audio (AVR) theater I had no problems (wait, who am I kidding) maybe a few problems. The problem was playback on other older AVR's or older TV's. I do not remember the exact AV gear and connection methods I was working with, but I remember trying everything, and being screwed by having only the True-HD audio track. I also have a 2 year old WDTV Live (the one before the SMP came out). It had/has a well know inability to bit-stream DTS-HD, so I was forced to down-convert or supplement those at the time.

With multiple ways to (1) connect any device audio output via HDMI, coax, optical and analog RCA and (2) multiple audio output settings menu on your streamer (3) HD audio output ability, inability, disability of some streamers or (4) to be handicaped/crippled by playing-back your file on older AV gear... with all that said, it becomes difficult to discuss this and defend why you/anyone should include the HD Audio -and- a non HD audio track equivalent when muxing.

Oh, and these were all m2ts files, so I would have to argue the point Damian made about "not a problem if ts/m2ts files. Yeah, I know it (AC3 or whatever) is "in the core", but sometimes some gear/setups can't extract/find/use it.
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post #5068 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Marde View Post

With multiple ways to (1) connect any device audio output via HDMI, coax, optical and analog RCA and (2) multiple audio output settings menu on your streamer (3) HD audio output ability, inability, disability of some streamers or (4) to be handicaped/crippled by playing-back your file on older AV gear... with all that said, it becomes difficult to discuss this and defend why you/anyone should include the HD Audio -and- a non HD audio track equivalent when muxing.

Well said. Unless you are sure of the capabilities of your playback equipment, both now and in the future, it's probably safest to always include a basic AC3 (or DTS, if that's all that's available) audio track in addition to the HD audio. It's probably(?) safe to assume that any future playback equipment will support at least 5.1 AC3 as a baseline, no?
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post #5069 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 03:43 PM
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Well said. Unless you are sure of the capabilities of your playback equipment, both now and in the future, it's probably safest to always include a basic AC3 (or DTS, if that's all that's available) audio track in addition to the HD audio. It's probably(?) safe to assume that any future playback equipment will support at least 5.1 AC3 as a baseline, no?

Yeah, sounds like a safe assumption. Because all (or most?) streamers can take an AC3 or DTS track and output it via analog and/or coax/optical. The point (as you know) was to have the AC3, PCM or DTS track included and in addition to the HD audio track. Unless your future includes friends/family/kids rooms that always have HD audio capable equipment. Just wait for a little kid to ask you "what's the problem" as you stare at his old CRT TV. Come on Uncle Marde, you said we could watch Ghost Rider! Here kid, watch it. I did say you could watch it! Just without sound. Get off my back.

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post #5070 of 6194 Old 02-05-2014, 04:37 PM
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As I read these posts, I'm sensing some confusion about DTS-HD -- at least the words I'm reading are confusing me.

The DTS-HD audio track is a single track comprised of two discrete parts: The DTS core (which is 1.5Mbps) and the HD extensions (which can be any size). The DTS core is a self-contained audio track that stands on it's own. It is a compressed format and the compression is lossy. The HD extensions part contains the "lost audio pieces" that, when combined with the DTS core, yield the lossless audio track (a simplistic explanation but it gets the point across). The HD extensions do not stand on their own. No matter what the check boxes in a ripper's interface seem to imply, you cannot have an audio track comprised of the HD extensions without the DTS core also being present -- if you are ripping the HD audio track, DTS-core will be there.

Because DTS-HD is comprised of two discrete pieces, the WD Live-SMP can bitstream the whole HD audio track or it can easily just pass the DTS core part and ignore the HD extensions. What it does depends on the HDMI negotiation with the target device that will tell the Live-SMP what it can handle. If the device cannot decode DTS, the Live-SMP has a license to decode it and send out stereo through the HDMI or the other outputs. If you are not connected via HDMI, you can tell the Live-SMP to only send stereo out the analog outputs or 5.1 out the optical output.

So, if the Live-SMP is your sole player there is no reason to include more than the DTS-HD track in your rips. All my titles with DTS-HD are ripped with only DTS-HD included. With my Live, I can play these DTS-HD titles into a PC monitor (HDMI) with a single tiny speaker in the back -- and have audio.

TrueHD is a different story.
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