Ripping Blu-Rays II - Page 187 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #5581 of 6165 Old 03-24-2014, 03:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
edorr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I don't mind transcoding the video as long as the audio remains lossless. I'll look into this handbrake tool.
edorr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #5582 of 6165 Old 03-24-2014, 03:26 PM
Senior Member
 
pheare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 346
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I don't mind transcoding the video as long as the audio remains lossless. I'll look into this handbrake tool.

It will be a bit of a chore as you need to manually select a chapter, add it to the queue, select the next chapter, add it to the queue, and so on.

For blurays, on the video tab I keep the defaults except I select constant quality with an RF of 19. On the audio tab select the DTS-HD pass thru option. If the track is True HD, I think you are stuck. There is a way to remux in the True HD track (with another tool) if you are doing an entire movie/concert, but with you breaking everything out by chapter, not sure what you can do.
pheare is offline  
post #5583 of 6165 Old 03-24-2014, 05:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
edorr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by pheare View Post

It will be a bit of a chore as you need to manually select a chapter, add it to the queue, select the next chapter, add it to the queue, and so on.

For blurays, on the video tab I keep the defaults except I select constant quality with an RF of 19. On the audio tab select the DTS-HD pass thru option. If the track is True HD, I think you are stuck. There is a way to remux in the True HD track (with another tool) if you are doing an entire movie/concert, but with you breaking everything out by chapter, not sure what you can do.

IT WORKS!!!

I am doing exactly as you said and I am getting lossless audio and video for individual tracks for DTS-HD. No Dolby TrueHD unfortunately. I've been trying to figure out how to do this for weeks (Jriver Particles are a kludge)! Regrettably, I the Oppo does not support DLNA streaming this format, but I will be playing this through Jriver once I got my video server sorted out! Thanks a million!
edorr is offline  
post #5584 of 6165 Old 03-24-2014, 09:23 PM
Member
 
NewtownTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Town St. Charles
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post

I want to experience it first before buying. Renting it on RedBox as the first time I had seen the movie. I'm not entirely sure why Lionsgate is producing rental BDs without HD audio, but right now I'm working off the assumption that it is a ploy to get me to buy their movie instead of merely renting it.

It's another example of how the legitimate consumer gets hosed. I wait like a good consumer the extra time for the movie to be on RedBox. I rent the BD and play it on my licensed BD player from Panasonic. What do I get? Less of a product than had I illegally downloaded the movie.

My theory is this. They don't like that some people just rent the movie and rip it, and then send it back. So they instead let the people that buy it have full HD audio. Just a thought.

That's wasn't flying... That was falling with style!
NewtownTheater is offline  
post #5585 of 6165 Old 03-24-2014, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
agogley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtownTheater View Post

My theory is this. They don't like that some people just rent the movie and rip it, and then send it back. So they instead let the people that buy it have full HD audio. Just a thought.

That's their stupidity then. Because anybody who does that wasn't going to buy the movie anyways and now they lost at least one person who may have purchased their products.

And does it stop people from ripping from redbox if they are going to do that?
agogley is offline  
post #5586 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 07:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 9,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtownTheater View Post

My theory is this. They don't like that some people just rent the movie and rip it, and then send it back. So they instead let the people that buy it have full HD audio. Just a thought.
A reasonable thought, but then how do you account for them selling two different versions of the BluRay disk where the "standard" version has only AC3 audio and you have to buy the "Premium" version to get HD audio.

I'm with agogley on this one.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #5587 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 08:04 AM
Member
 
NewtownTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Town St. Charles
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

A reasonable thought, but then how do you account for them selling two different versions of the BluRay disk where the "standard" version has only AC3 audio and you have to buy the "Premium" version to get HD audio.

I'm with agogley on this one.

It was just a thought. But I guess I liken it to the Apple Computer motto. Make it better and part of the audience will pay more for that product. Make it cheap (Windows machines) and you'll sell a ton to the audience that doesn't care about quality and just want a cheap solution, with terrible support.

And not that I'm an expert in this subject by any means, but I imagine the licensing fees associated with distributing on rental have some affect on profits. And again, the hard core theater junkies are gonna pay the extra money to get the HD version. It's a better product, so why wouldn't they charge more?

That's wasn't flying... That was falling with style!
NewtownTheater is offline  
post #5588 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 09:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 9,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtownTheater View Post

It's a better product, so why wouldn't they charge more?
Can't argue with that. That is the whole crux of marketing -- to convince the public that the product is somehow better so they are rightful in charging more and you, the consumer, are getting more for the premium you are paying.

The movie industry is inherently a collective monopoly. Each movie is a unique product that has no in-kind competition. Is there a cheap chinese knock-off version of LOTR? Actually, it might be hilarious if there was -- can you see the Hobbits as little kung-fu ninjas, slicing up Orcs.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #5589 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 09:21 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
dbone1026's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 11,294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post


The movie industry is inherently a collective monopoly. Each movie is a unique product that has no in-kind competition. Is there a cheap chinese knock-off version of LOTR? Actually, it might be hilarious if there was -- can you see the Hobbits as little kung-fu ninjas, slicing up Orcs.

Well, there are the porn versions lol

Cheers,
Damian

MSS.net blog (contributing editor) - http://www.mediasmartserver.net

Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP 2010-2012

dbone1026 is offline  
post #5590 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 09:23 AM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Quintana Roo ... in my mind
Posts: 24,914
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

A reasonable thought, but then how do you account for them selling two different versions of the BluRay disk where the "standard" version has only AC3 audio and you have to buy the "Premium" version to get HD audio.

I'm with agogley on this one.

THAT is ESPECIALLY weaselly, and they should be called out on it. Other than that, how do "we" make them change their ways? I don't know that we can. Personally, I simply don't buy the crippled versions. But I research every purchase and am probably more diligent than the consumers who are their bread-and-butter.

As for rentals, well sorry but I can't get as exercised about them as I do for the retail versions, and it's got nothing to do with ripping renters.

Jeff
pepar is online now  
post #5591 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 09:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 9,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Well, there are the porn versions lol
And they all have a happy ending. wink.gif

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #5592 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 10:21 AM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Quintana Roo ... in my mind
Posts: 24,914
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 131
pepar is online now  
post #5593 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 10:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 9,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 305
C'mon.
He opened the door.
How can I not walk through? tongue.gif

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #5594 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 10:34 AM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Quintana Roo ... in my mind
Posts: 24,914
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 131
pepar is online now  
post #5595 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 11:59 AM
Senior Member
 
pheare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 346
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

IT WORKS!!!

I am doing exactly as you said and I am getting lossless audio and video for individual tracks for DTS-HD. No Dolby TrueHD unfortunately. I've been trying to figure out how to do this for weeks (Jriver Particles are a kludge)! Regrettably, I the Oppo does not support DLNA streaming this format, but I will be playing this through Jriver once I got my video server sorted out! Thanks a million!

Good stuff. You are welcome.
pheare is offline  
post #5596 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 03:29 PM
Member
 
NewtownTheater's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Town St. Charles
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

The movie industry is inherently a collective monopoly. Each movie is a unique product that has no in-kind competition. Is there a cheap chinese knock-off version of LOTR? Actually, it might be hilarious if there was -- can you see the Hobbits as little kung-fu ninjas, slicing up Orcs.

Well RedBox is full of cheap knock-offs. And my kids love to tell me about it. Dad this is the real version of this movie... LOL. The cartoons that are available are always trying to sound like a Disney or Dreamworks movie that is out in the theaters. And the story and animation is never as good. For example the Snow Queen that's out right now. The bottom of the package says. "A magical adventure in a FROZEN land! And Frozen is in the same font as the Disney movie Frozen... Ugh.

By the way it took me a while to realize that Redbox audio isn't the same as the high-end Blu-rays. I forget what movie it was, but it was a big action movie and didn't have DTS-HD and I thought really why wouldn't they have that... Now I don't rent those types of movies from Redbox. Just cheap cartoon knock-offs and romantic comedies.

That's wasn't flying... That was falling with style!
NewtownTheater is offline  
post #5597 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
agogley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Maybe I just noticed this but Disney's Frozen says it has "Digital HD" on my Collector's Edition (BD+DVD+Digital). I just got the movie from Amazon yesterday so I haven't had a chance to inspect it. (As an aside, I can't even play it on my computer outside of MPC-HC). I was wondering if anybody knew what Disney means by "Digtial HD" and how it differs from their previous digital versions. I assume we aren't talking about the equivalent of a rip here.

Update: the movie properties say 1080p but obviously it is really compressed. I think the audio is AAC protected and just stereo. I can't actually play the stupid thing on my computer because I still have a Dell 2405 which isn't HDCP complaint (another way I've been screwed out of watching content I legally purchased). You handbrake guys...are you finding the new digital HD preferable to compressing using Handbrake?
agogley is offline  
post #5598 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 04:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 9,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 305
Well, I've always advocated DVD Fab as being able to find the correct playlist when Sony Screen Pass obfuscation is being used. I finally got around to ripping Catching Fire and it seems DVD Fab totally drops the ball here and picks the wrong playlist. Not so infallable after all.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #5599 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 06:57 PM
Senior Member
 
djc11369's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Well, I've always advocated DVD Fab as being able to find the correct playlist when Sony Screen Pass obfuscation is being used. I finally got around to ripping Catching Fire and it seems DVD Fab totally drops the ball here and picks the wrong playlist. Not so infallable after all.

They came up with some updates that corrected it, probably a few days after the release.
djc11369 is offline  
post #5600 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 08:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 9,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by djc11369 View Post

They came up with some updates that corrected it, probably a few days after the release.
I have the very latest version of DVD Fab 9.1.3.6

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #5601 of 6165 Old 03-25-2014, 09:23 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 20,708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
Liked: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtownTheater View Post

Well RedBox is full of cheap knock-offs. And my kids love to tell me about it. Dad this is the real version of this movie... LOL. The cartoons that are available are always trying to sound like a Disney or Dreamworks movie that is out in the theaters. And the story and animation is never as good. For example the Snow Queen that's out right now. The bottom of the package says. "A magical adventure in a FROZEN land! And Frozen is in the same font as the Disney movie Frozen... Ugh.

By the way it took me a while to realize that Redbox audio isn't the same as the high-end Blu-rays. I forget what movie it was, but it was a big action movie and didn't have DTS-HD and I thought really why wouldn't they have that... Now I don't rent those types of movies from Redbox. Just cheap cartoon knock-offs and romantic comedies.

Only a very, very tiny number of BD titles have lower quality audio on the rentals. The vast majority of rental BD titles have HD audio.

39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
LED DLP
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme

aaronwt is online now  
post #5602 of 6165 Old 03-26-2014, 05:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 9,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post

Update: the movie properties say 1080p but obviously it is really compressed. I think the audio is AAC protected and just stereo. I can't actually play the stupid thing on my computer because I still have a Dell 2405 which isn't HDCP complaint (another way I've been screwed out of watching content I legally purchased). You handbrake guys...are you finding the new digital HD preferable to compressing using Handbrake?
I think the studios are assuming (or wanting to assume) that people only want the "digital" copies to play on their small-screen portable devices like tablets and smart-phones. So, a very highly compressed 1080p may look like crap on a 65" plasma but won't look bad at all on a 10" tablet or 3" smart-phone screen. Audio on those devices will be at most 2.0 stereo into a pair of ear-buds so that is what you get on the "digital" copy. For home theater viewing, they fully expect you to be a good little boy and put the disk in the player like they intended.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #5603 of 6165 Old 03-26-2014, 05:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 9,786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Only a very, very tiny number of BD titles have lower quality audio on the rentals. The vast majority of rental BD titles have HD audio.
I agree. That has been my observation also.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #5604 of 6165 Old 03-26-2014, 07:44 AM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Quintana Roo ... in my mind
Posts: 24,914
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post

Maybe I just noticed this but Disney's Frozen says it has "Digital HD" on my Collector's Edition (BD+DVD+Digital). I just got the movie from Amazon yesterday so I haven't had a chance to inspect it. (As an aside, I can't even play it on my computer outside of MPC-HC). I was wondering if anybody knew what Disney means by "Digtial HD" and how it differs from their previous digital versions. I assume we aren't talking about the equivalent of a rip here.

Update: the movie properties say 1080p but obviously it is really compressed. I think the audio is AAC protected and just stereo. I can't actually play the stupid thing on my computer because I still have a Dell 2405 which isn't HDCP complaint (another way I've been screwed out of watching content I legally purchased). You handbrake guys...are you finding the new digital HD preferable to compressing using Handbrake?

What makes you say that?

According to THE source for BD specs, there are five "Frozen" versions of the BD on the market. And, also according to http://www.blu-ray.com, they are all 1080p MPEG-4 AVC and DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1.

Did you possibly buy from Amazon Marketplace and get a previous rental?

pepar is online now  
post #5605 of 6165 Old 03-26-2014, 08:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ScottJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posts: 1,380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

What makes you say that?

According to THE source for BD specs, there are five "Frozen" versions of the BD on the market. And, also according to http://www.blu-ray.com, they are all 1080p MPEG-4 AVC and DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1.

Did you possibly buy from Amazon Marketplace and get a previous rental?

I believe he's talking about the included "Digital Copy".
ScottJ is online now  
post #5606 of 6165 Old 03-26-2014, 10:17 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 20,708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
Liked: 578
A Disney Digital copy is not like Digital copies from other releases since they don't use UltraViolet. With the UV digital copies you can get a VUDU HDX digital version which, while still not BD quality, is still pretty good.

39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
LED DLP
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme

aaronwt is online now  
post #5607 of 6165 Old 03-26-2014, 11:39 AM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Quintana Roo ... in my mind
Posts: 24,914
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ View Post

I believe he's talking about the included "Digital Copy".

?? And complaining it's not lossless audio??
pepar is online now  
post #5608 of 6165 Old 03-26-2014, 03:15 PM
Senior Member
 
djc11369's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 462
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I have the very latest version of DVD Fab 9.1.3.6

Maybe they broke it again, it was fixed for me on 9.1.3.2 smile.gif
djc11369 is offline  
post #5609 of 6165 Old 03-26-2014, 05:55 PM
Member
 
hogger129's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The Dark Side Of The Moon
Posts: 183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

?? And complaining it's not lossless audio??

You don't even need the full lossless audio unless you have a top notch system to show it off, in which case you can probably afford a couple large hard drives to store the full BD quality. The 384k DD 5.1 tracks that iTunes digital copies have isn't bad sounding at all IMO. It's better than only having stereo AAC.
hogger129 is offline  
post #5610 of 6165 Old 03-26-2014, 05:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 126
That's lower bandwidth audio than DVD, and almost half the bandwidth of lossy DD on Blu-ray.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogger129 View Post

You don't even need the full lossless audio unless you have a top notch system to show it off, in which case you can probably afford a couple large hard drives to store the full BD quality. The 384k DD 5.1 tracks that iTunes digital copies have isn't bad sounding at all IMO. It's better than only having stereo AAC.
primetimeguy is offline  
Reply Networking, Media Servers & Content Streaming

Tags
Dune Hd Smart B1 1080p Media Player
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off