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post #6121 of 6141 Old 07-06-2014, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
Last I looked, handbrake defaulted to q 0.5 multichannel AAC. Also I think that it also resized by default instead of just cropping and keeping full resolution?
Using the command line HandBrake, default is q=20 and it crops black bars but retains the pixel dimensions of the image area.

By default it does convert audio to AAC. I thought it always downmixed to stereo but would have to check that. (I tend to be indifferent to audio, but you can retain the original tracks).

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post #6122 of 6141 Old 07-06-2014, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
Last I looked, handbrake defaulted to q 0.5 multichannel AAC. Also I think that it also resized by default instead of just cropping and keeping full resolution?

As someone said earlier, it's probably easier to just rip to iso and put it on a mobile drive if your end game will be watching it on a laptop. You will have to encode for your mobile device though.

*If I remember to, I will check out the file size for wwZ when I get home to see how well it compressed.
I did redo WWZ with the DTS-HD passthrough option on handbrake and ended up with a 7.1 GB file. I like the idea of having DTS-HD while at home. So far I am not able to perceive a quality difference while streaming to a remote device. Both the full rip BD and the compressed versions of them look identical when I set the quality of the stream to 5mbps.

I again played WWZ (both compressed and full glory) last night on my Sharp 60SQ. I was unable to differentiate a quality difference while sitting on my couch 9 feet away. I'll try a different movie tonight... It'd be nice to keep some files low. I'll experiment around with things.

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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
Using the command line HandBrake, default is q=20 and it crops black bars but retains the pixel dimensions of the image area.

By default it does convert audio to AAC. I thought it always downmixed to stereo but would have to check that. (I tend to be indifferent to audio, but you can retain the original tracks).

-Bill
The AAC downmix would work great for anything that is stereo but my AVR would only do PCM stereo with this. Not really ideal for a movie. I like the idea of DTS-HD passthrough, however, I will likely give another multichannel source a try.

Thanks for all your help everyone.

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post #6123 of 6141 Old 07-06-2014, 08:03 AM
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I now have my mom and one other friend enjoying my movies by streaming. I have a few more friends and family that are into movies that I may ask if they'd enjoy access. So this endeavor is more than just a fun hobby at this point, it's to help others enjoy high quality movies at no additional cost to them.
This kind of "file sharing" is not a topic that should be discussed on a public forum.
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post #6124 of 6141 Old 07-06-2014, 08:43 AM
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Perception is reality. If he can't tell the difference, then it doesn't matter.
While true, his perception may change in the future. I chose my words carefully when I made this statement to keep it as neutral as possible. Qualtity is not the same as Perceived Quality.

I compress most BRs but leave some specific titles uncompressed, depending on content, how much I really like the movie and the playback device. For my 50" plasma, a BR rip that has been compressed to 8-12GB usually looks identical to the original. For my kids' 7" Kindle Fire, 600MB is usually more than adequate.

However, there is no way that you can say there is no difference in quality between the original 23GB BR Rip, an 8GB compressed rip for my main TV and the 600MB rip for the tablet.

Good enough is good enough until your viewing requirements change. OP can compress down for his current situation and be perfectly happy but should be aware that what looks great on his laptop now will certainly fall short in his home theater. He may decide to be less aggressive when re encoding, opting for a larger file that is still significicantly smaller than the original but still having enough quality to be somehwhat "future-proof".

My personal story comes from when I had a decent stock of DVDs. The ones that I watched most frequently (as well as a lot of the frequently handled kids' DVDs), I transcoded with DVD Shrink or DVD-Rebuilder to fit on DVD-5 media because it was so much cheaper to purchase than DVD-9. Then I would stash the originals in the garage. Looked fine at the time on my 32" CRT TV. Then I had a garage fire and lost most of my original DVDs. Words can't say how dissappointed I was when I ripped the DVD-5s of the X-Files, Friends, etc. as well as several movies to be stored on my Media Server. Playback is awful on even my 27" LCD. It looks soft, lacks detail and everything is muddy when things get dark. I would kill to have the old, originals back.

At the time, the copies were fine, but there is no way to dispute that they were of less quality than the originals.

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post #6125 of 6141 Old 07-06-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by smitbret View Post
While true, his perception may change in the future. I chose my words carefully when I made this statement to keep it as neutral as possible. Qualtity is not the same as Perceived Quality.

I compress most BRs but leave some specific titles uncompressed, depending on content, how much I really like the movie and the playback device. For my 50" plasma, a BR rip that has been compressed to 8-12GB usually looks identical to the original. For my kids' 7" Kindle Fire, 600MB is usually more than adequate.

However, there is no way that you can say there is no difference in quality between the original 23GB BR Rip, an 8GB compressed rip for my main TV and the 600MB rip for the tablet.

Good enough is good enough until your viewing requirements change. OP can compress down for his current situation and be perfectly happy but should be aware that what looks great on his laptop now will certainly fall short in his home theater. He may decide to be less aggressive when re encoding, opting for a larger file that is still significicantly smaller than the original but still having enough quality to be somehwhat "future-proof".

My personal story comes from when I had a decent stock of DVDs. The ones that I watched most frequently (as well as a lot of the frequently handled kids' DVDs), I transcoded with DVD Shrink or DVD-Rebuilder to fit on DVD-5 media because it was so much cheaper to purchase than DVD-9. Then I would stash the originals in the garage. Looked fine at the time on my 32" CRT TV. Then I had a garage fire and lost most of my original DVDs. Words can't say how dissappointed I was when I ripped the DVD-5s of the X-Files, Friends, etc. as well as several movies to be stored on my Media Server. Playback is awful on even my 27" LCD. It looks soft, lacks detail and everything is muddy when things get dark. I would kill to have the old, originals back.

At the time, the copies were fine, but there is no way to dispute that they were of less quality than the originals.
You bring up a good point, with that said I may be keeping the full BD rips and just compress the ones I want to put on my laptop or tablet.
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post #6126 of 6141 Old 07-06-2014, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
You bring up a good point, with that said I may be keeping the full BD rips and just compress the ones I want to put on my laptop or tablet.
Have you googled on the fly compression? I'd bet that there is a way to stream from the native file and adaptively compress it for the target device.
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post #6127 of 6141 Old 07-06-2014, 05:30 PM
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Have you googled on the fly compression? I'd bet that there is a way to stream from the native file and adaptively compress it for the target device.
I'm wondering if Mediabrowser3 already does this or something like this. I think the stream quality is the same when I set the stream to 3mbps (I have to set it low because of my limiting upload speed I think). I streamed both an encoded and full rip today. Both were grainy and didn't look that good. Perhaps if streaming is something that I am going to take more seriously I'll need to get a better plan through my ISP (comcast). the 50mbps download is what I have and it only delivers 5-6mbps upload.

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post #6128 of 6141 Old 07-06-2014, 06:29 PM
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The problem with stating file sizes is that people will immediately reference the source. The problem with that lies in that not all movies will compress evenly.

Two movies that are equal length films that start out at 50gb. One goes down to 5gb and the other goes down to 15gb. People will automatically cry foul at the 5gb file even though both files could look identical to their source files. Even on a large screen!

How is it possible? All sorts of ways. Let me give you the biggest reason though for compressibility factor. GRAIN. Anything with a lot of grain will end up being HUGE in file size, in comparison to something with no grain, if you are wanting to retain the grain. This is why The Hurt Locker does not shrink well and why Pixar movies do.
@jhug hy3020 There are other x264 options that you can change that will affect compressibility and quality. One of the biggest things you can change as far as quality goes would be to up the --subme and --me values as I think handbrake defaults to --me hex and --subme 7. I'm not saying to max these settings out, but testing out --me uhm and --subme 9 should result in marked visual quality.
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post #6129 of 6141 Old 07-07-2014, 09:05 AM
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When I first got into storing my movies on my hard drives, I would use bd rebuilder to compress them down to about 20-23gb so they could fit on a single layer bd25 if need be. I honestly could not see much of a difference between those files and the original on my 65" plasma. Due to the fact that, eventually, I will be moving up to a 4k tv that is bigger and the fact that storage space is fairly cheap now (not to mention the time it takes to compress), I just rip full bitrate movie only backups. I did use handbrake occasionally to squeeze the original files down to ~3gb for use one my tablet/phone. On that small of a screen, they look very sharp and I truly believe that anything over ~5gb is likely a waste for such a small screen. They even hold up well on my 24" computer monitor. I have viewed these mp4/m4v files on my 65" plasma, though, and they definately leave a lot to be desired. Better than dvd for sure, but noisy and not nearly as sharp. Do they look bad on a 65" tv? No. They might be fine for some people, but I am sure that if you had the original playing next to it on an equally sized screen, just about anyone (even those that have bad vision) would immediately notice the difference. I would guess somewhere in the 15gb range is where I would have a problem noticing the difference between an original bd file and a properly compressed file. As mentioned earlier, that will vary to a certain degree from movie to movie. What I have done recently, is buy a slingbox and an hd fury2 (an hdmi to component converter), set the remote functions to control my hdmi switcher (so I can switch between cable and my htpc) and now I can watch my original rips (I use power dvd) via slingbox on my mobile devices from anywhere. It requires me to use another app (splashtop) to set up the movie remotely, then I just push it (again using splashtop remote desktop) to my second extended desktop screen (which is the hdmi connection that feeds my slingbox). Long story short, as long as I have a good connection, the movies look at least as sharp as the handbrake derived files, and I don't have to waste the hard drive space/time. This setup has the added advantage of being able to watch these movies outside of my home network. I don't know why I posted this long winded story about my setup, I just thought I would share my somewhat complex (kinda pricey too, once you consider the hd fury2) solution to avoid compressing for different devices. There are also some other methods of transcoding for mobile devices (I think plex and others do this ), but I have heard they produce mixed results, and probably require more computer processing power than my older core 2 quad can handle.

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post #6130 of 6141 Old 07-07-2014, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
The problem with stating file sizes is that people will immediately reference the source. The problem with that lies in that not all movies will compress evenly.

Two movies that are equal length films that start out at 50gb. One goes down to 5gb and the other goes down to 15gb. People will automatically cry foul at the 5gb file even though both files could look identical to their source files. Even on a large screen!

How is it possible? All sorts of ways. Let me give you the biggest reason though for compressibility factor. GRAIN. Anything with a lot of grain will end up being HUGE in file size, in comparison to something with no grain, if you are wanting to retain the grain. This is why The Hurt Locker does not shrink well and why Pixar movies do.
@jhug hy3020 There are other x264 options that you can change that will affect compressibility and quality. One of the biggest things you can change as far as quality goes would be to up the --subme and --me values as I think handbrake defaults to --me hex and --subme 7. I'm not saying to max these settings out, but testing out --me uhm and --subme 9 should result in marked visual quality.
Very helpful thank you. You stated that handbrake defaults to enhanced quality settings? So what I'm thinking is that I'll leave everything alone in handbrake except for changing audio to passthrough.
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post #6131 of 6141 Old 07-07-2014, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
The problem with stating file sizes is that people will immediately reference the source. The problem with that lies in that not all movies will compress evenly.

Two movies that are equal length films that start out at 50gb. One goes down to 5gb and the other goes down to 15gb. People will automatically cry foul at the 5gb file even though both files could look identical to their source files. Even on a large screen!

How is it possible? All sorts of ways. Let me give you the biggest reason though for compressibility factor. GRAIN. Anything with a lot of grain will end up being HUGE in file size, in comparison to something with no grain, if you are wanting to retain the grain. This is why The Hurt Locker does not shrink well and why Pixar movies do.
@jhug hy3020 There are other x264 options that you can change that will affect compressibility and quality. One of the biggest things you can change as far as quality goes would be to up the --subme and --me values as I think handbrake defaults to --me hex and --subme 7. I'm not saying to max these settings out, but testing out --me uhm and --subme 9 should result in marked visual quality.
Yep, everything I do gets ME-UMH and most get the sub-ME 10.

But, you are 100% correct. I just used sizes to give relative examples.

As far as transcoding on the fly, you'd need something that is UPnP compliant and acting as a front-end server to transcode those files down. Plex, Mezzmo, Tversity, Serviio, etc. They all have their limitations, too, so YMMV.

Last edited by smitbret; 07-07-2014 at 11:26 AM.
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post #6132 of 6141 Old 07-07-2014, 09:45 PM
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Would there be much of a difference between my blurays being 20gb in size vs 30-35gb?


I usually end up with 17-20mb/sec bitrate aswell vs 25-30mb/sec aswell.


Would there be any differences on a 50" vizio e smart series smart tv sitting 5-15feet back?


Like I could encode man of steel to about 37gb, or I could encode it to 20-26gb
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post #6133 of 6141 Old 07-07-2014, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
Very helpful thank you. You stated that handbrake defaults to enhanced quality settings? So what I'm thinking is that I'll leave everything alone in handbrake except for changing audio to passthrough.

Nope, I actually said that handbrake uses medium settings and that you should experiment with other settings to see if there are improvements towards pq or compression.
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post #6134 of 6141 Old 07-07-2014, 10:07 PM
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Would there be much of a difference between my blurays being 20gb in size vs 30-35gb?





I usually end up with 17-20mb/sec bitrate aswell vs 25-30mb/sec aswell.





Would there be any differences on a 50" vizio e smart series smart tv sitting 5-15feet back?





Like I could encode man of steel to about 37gb, or I could encode it to 20-26gb

Try it and see. Best way to do it would be by having a third party A/B your files without seeing the file size on either.

I myself have man of steel down to 13.3gb. That's the video, dts hd track and chapter file.
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post #6135 of 6141 Old 07-08-2014, 05:37 AM
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I watch most of my stuff on a 50" plasma from about 8-10 feet away. I actually squeezed my Man of Steel BR down to a hair below 9GB and it looks fine to me. A lot of it is going to be dependent on your encoder settings, too.

I don't have the home audio setup to justify DTS-MA or anything like that, so when I rip my BRs I usually just pull out the AC3 or DTS core and pass it through as the 2nd Audio Track and then convert it over to a 160Kbps .aac track with Dolby Pro Logic and make that my default audio track (That way they can be remuxed to .mp4 for playback on pretty much anything. With both audio tracks, I am generally pretty comfortable with action BR rips that are between 8 and 13GB. I don't notice any degradation in the film quality on my TVs. If it's a Rom Com or something lacking much movement I will run them all the way down to 5-8GB if I want to take the time to do a 2-pass encode with variable bit rate.

Some of my decision comes down to the amount of time I want to dedicate to re-encoding. I haven't wanted to invest in an uberfast PC for awhile so my encoding happens on an AMD x4 955 or FX-6100. At the settings I use, a BR will take a good 10-18 hours depending on my settings and the source. I know there are a few things that I could dial back that wouldn't be noticeable but since it's really just a set it and go kind of thing I like to set it to be as efficient with size if possible. If I am willing to dedicate 12 hours to an encode, is Trellis Always On worth an extra couple of hours? For me, Yes.

Encoding is based on science, but ultimately it is an art. Experiment and go with what works for you. There's a lot of people that would love to give you their opinions if you have any questions.
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post #6136 of 6141 Old 07-08-2014, 06:32 AM
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10 to 18 hours?!?!? I guess I will never even consider doing this. I complain about the 30 minutes it can take to rip the Blu-ray Disc to an ISO. After that 30 minutes it's done and on one of my unRAID servers.

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post #6137 of 6141 Old 07-08-2014, 06:50 AM
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10 to 18 hours?!?!?
I'm sure you understand this is system dependent.

With the parameters I've posted HandBrake takes about the running time of the title for Blu-ray: 2 hours for a 2 hour title. This is on Intel Core i3-2100 which is the lower end of Sandy Bridge and several years old.

x264 is a common benchmark test and you can find CPUs ranked by it in many place.

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post #6138 of 6141 Old 07-08-2014, 07:15 AM
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10 to 18 hours?!?!? I guess I will never even consider doing this. I complain about the 30 minutes it can take to rip the Blu-ray Disc to an ISO. After that 30 minutes it's done and on one of my unRAID servers.
That's based on my settings. I can easily set it up to re encode in faster than real time, but I choose to be more aggressive with my settings. I don't rip hundreds of BRs so if I do 1 every week or two, it's no problem if I leave my PC on with the monitor off while it re encodes while I'm sleeping or at work.

Like I had said, the decision comes down to how much time I want to spend re encoding. I will never rip a BR and re encode it with settings that would get it done in 2 hours. It really takes me no more time in real life since it is a set it and leave kind of situation, so I might as well just let it run.
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post #6139 of 6141 Old 07-08-2014, 05:17 PM
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10 to 18 hours?!?!? I guess I will never even consider doing this. I complain about the 30 minutes it can take to rip the Blu-ray Disc to an ISO. After that 30 minutes it's done and on one of my unRAID servers.

It takes a whole 5 minutes of your real time to setup the encode, the rest of the time is just wait time. I've said it before, I don't encode my movies the day I want to watch them, I encode days before I want to watch them. At any one time I have half a dozen movies queued up ready for watching. I guess I just don't have the time anymore to watch multiple movies a week.
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post #6140 of 6141 Old Yesterday, 06:53 AM
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Been ripping my DVD and Blu-rays for years and went back to re-rip my Blu-ray so i can have the HD track. Does anyone know if it's possible to have everything unchecked after it initially reads the disc with makeMKV?
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post #6141 of 6141 Old Yesterday, 11:34 AM
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It takes a whole 5 minutes of your real time to setup the encode, the rest of the time is just wait time. I've said it before, I don't encode my movies the day I want to watch them, I encode days before I want to watch them. At any one time I have half a dozen movies queued up ready for watching. I guess I just don't have the time anymore to watch multiple movies a week.
Set a template in Handbrake and it takes less than a minute. I like to queue up a lot of projects and let them run over the course of a week or so if possible.
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