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post #6181 of 6757 Old 07-19-2014, 08:11 AM
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If i do it I imagine I will start with tv series. Stuff like lost is in packaging I don't like and also that way you watch however many episodes you like whenever.

I am still interested,... Maybe I'll just start small and grow.
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post #6182 of 6757 Old 07-19-2014, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
If i do it I imagine I will start with tv series. Stuff like lost is in packaging I don't like and also that way you watch however many episodes you like whenever.

I am still interested,... Maybe I'll just start small and grow.
If you have not already, read the first post. I don't rip TV series ... don't have any, but from what I read here they can require more fussing.

In any case, after post #1 help is here!

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post #6183 of 6757 Old 07-19-2014, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Having recently put all my CDs losslessly onto a hard drive, I thought I would investigate doing this with my blus.

However, I have 1200 blus and I find new ones that I want just about every week.

So am I right to think if I wanted to do this I would need 40Tb of hard drives and it would take countless hours and after putting say $2000 into it I would have ,... Well,... More or less pretty much what I had to begin with.

I'm interested but it really doesn't seem worth it.
WHen I initially ripped the hundreds of BD ISOs I had, I used a Windows Home Server. I had four or five BD drives connected to it. All I had to do was stick the disc in and the server ripped it, created a folder, added cover art etc.(This was inconjunction with "My Movies" software and Any DVD HD.) So when I left for work I put discs in and when I came home from worked I removed those and put new discs in. After several weeks I had ripped all my my titles. There is no way I would have wanted to manually do this with each title from a PC. This setup worked great for me. But this was also back in 2009/2010 so I don't know what is available now like this.
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post #6184 of 6757 Old 07-19-2014, 12:03 PM
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I have already converted all my CDs to lossless files and with 300-ish ... they fit on a 500GB hard drive with room to spare so the whole process was so much easier than I imagne it will be with my Blu.

I will "start" with my small remaining DVDs... I never keep DVDs when I get a blu ray... (I don't care about special features--- just personally) The DVDs will be easier for one thing because I have so few left.

I'm still unsure about the Blus ... seems like I would need a very nice NAS setup ... if I wanted to rip all of them ... I suppose the end result would rival Kaliedescape ... sort of ... could be fun .. time will tell.
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post #6185 of 6757 Old 07-19-2014, 12:07 PM
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There are CDs with lossless audio?
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post #6186 of 6757 Old 07-19-2014, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
There are CDs with lossless audio?
The audio on all commercially produced audio CD's is classed as 'lossless' ie: 2Ch LPCM (Linear Pulse Code Modulated) audio sampled at 44.1KHz with a 16-bit quantization sample depth
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post #6187 of 6757 Old 07-19-2014, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
I have already converted all my CDs to lossless files and with 300-ish ... they fit on a 500GB hard drive with room to spare so the whole process was so much easier than I imagne it will be with my Blu.

I will "start" with my small remaining DVDs... I never keep DVDs when I get a blu ray... (I don't care about special features--- just personally) The DVDs will be easier for one thing because I have so few left.

I'm still unsure about the Blus ... seems like I would need a very nice NAS setup ... if I wanted to rip all of them ... I suppose the end result would rival Kaliedescape ... sort of ... could be fun .. time will tell.
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post #6188 of 6757 Old 07-19-2014, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post
The audio on all commercially produced audio CD's is classed as 'lossless' ie: 2Ch LPCM (Linear Pulse Code Modulated) audio sampled at 44.1KHz with a 16-bit quantization sample depth
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post #6189 of 6757 Old 07-19-2014, 02:53 PM
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post #6190 of 6757 Old 07-19-2014, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital View Post
The audio on all commercially produced audio CD's is classed as 'lossless' ie: 2Ch LPCM (Linear Pulse Code Modulated) audio sampled at 44.1KHz with a 16-bit quantization sample depth
I know that sample rates and resolution can be changed when encoding to PCM, is this what you mean by compression?

Afaik, audio cd's used PCM while video discs used LPCM?
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post #6191 of 6757 Old 07-19-2014, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
There are CDs with lossless audio?
Lossless in that there is no loss from compression. One can argue whether a non-compressed format is lossless, but I think you're arguing semantics.

I believe I've seen arguments on this topic on the net going back to 2000, so you're not the first pedant to bring this up.
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post #6192 of 6757 Old 07-19-2014, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
Lossless in that there is no loss from compression. One can argue whether a non-compressed format is lossless, but I think you're arguing semantics.



I believe I've seen arguments on this topic on the net going back to 2000, so you're not the first pedant to bring this up.

I thought PCM was 1:1 from its source material? Please correct me if I'm wrong and also provide a link so I can better educate myself [emoji4]
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Afaik, audio cd's used PCM while video discs used LPCM?
They are the same. The "L" is dropped, but it is all linear pulse code modulation.
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Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
... you're not the first pedant to bring this up.
Use of any form of the word 'pedant' is pedantic.
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post #6195 of 6757 Old 07-20-2014, 12:08 AM
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Use of any form of the word 'pedant' is pedantic.
Exactly! Although I generally try to be didactic, rather than pedantic.
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post #6196 of 6757 Old 07-20-2014, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Wielage View Post
Lossless in that there is no loss from compression. One can argue whether a non-compressed format is lossless, but I think you're arguing semantics.

I believe I've seen arguments on this topic on the net going back to 2000, so you're not the first pedant to bring this up.
You might also consider use of the term "arguing".
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You might also consider use of the term "arguing".
Considered and discarded. Sometimes, the right word is the right word.
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post #6198 of 6757 Old 07-26-2014, 10:25 AM
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I want to explore the blu ray backing up notion... I picked up a external drive LG CP40 ... is there anything particularly horrible I should know about this particular drive or will it be suitable?

edit - Anyway the drive seem great ... so I guess that part of the puzzle is somewhat settled.

Last edited by Brian Hampton; 07-27-2014 at 12:48 AM.
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post #6199 of 6757 Old 07-27-2014, 10:55 PM
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If i do it I imagine I will start with tv series. Stuff like lost is in packaging I don't like and also that way you watch however many episodes you like whenever.

I am still interested,... Maybe I'll just start small and grow.
I started by just ripping BD movies that I acquired after the fact. With that said, I usually try to find the cheapest possible way to acquire the BD movie (buying used on ebay is one great way). After all, if you go the route of ripping BD movies than you're likely gonna toss the disk and the case in the closest (never to be seen from again) so the physical condition shouldn't be a buying factor. Oh... I also ripped all the kids' movies because those are weekly views.

Consider this... It usually takes my Samsung BD player about 3-5 minutes to boot from cold before I am able to start watching the feature film (not including the time physically picking the movie). With the same movie that has been ripped to my HTPC (watching via MediaBrowser 3) I am able to start the movie almost instantaneously (if the HTPC is already on and in WMC which it usually always is). So I justify the ripping process as time saving because if I watch that movie say 10 times over the course of the year (Planes has been watched at least 100 times in 2014 thanks to my two sons) than I have saved at least an hour from omitting the navigating through the menu.

As far as space is concerned. I currently have a 4TB drive that has 51 BD rips on it that is only taking up a smudge over 1090GB. I'm expecting to get about 170 movies on that drive. Considering I'm only putting movies that I acquire in the future on this drive, I would assume it will take me roughly one or even two more years to fill this drive up. After that I intend to buy another drive (perhaps they'll have 5TB drives more readily available then) at which time it will take me even longer to fill that drive up because this first drive was primarily me putting the kids' movies on it and the movies that I eagerly acquired to build up an attractive library. My HTPC is a mid tower case that can hold three drives. After I have exhausted the rest of the drive bays I am going to just get a better case that can hold more drives (right now I have the Antec Solo II... heck the Silverstone Grandia GD08 can hold 8 drives). My point is that you might not need a NAS. Utilizing an HTPC might be the best option for the server (I have no complaints) as you can get a decent CPU and not have both a NAS and a HTPC running taking up extra energy. My HTPC is always on (it sleeps when nobody uses it) so I am able to access the server anytime and anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
I want to explore the blu ray backing up notion... I picked up a external drive LG CP40 ... is there anything particularly horrible I should know about this particular drive or will it be suitable?

edit - Anyway the drive seem great ... so I guess that part of the puzzle is somewhat settled.
That should suffice for your purposes. I recently bought a great LG internal BD drive for both my gaming desktop and HTPC but I use neither. I use my laptop and its laptop BD drive for ripping (really easy to swap out) because it is so convenient to rip from my great room versus my office or even HTPC. After I rip the movie I transfer it from my laptop to my HTPC (via the network) and I also take the movie and encode it using Handbrake. I've been building up a library on my laptop and external hard drive to take with me for trips and such. The encodes usually drop the titles down from 25GB to 3-10GB (MetaX is great for cover art on the encoded MP4's). As far as the transferred movie to my HTPC... I have to do nothing with it once I transfer it... it gets placed in the appropriate folder and MediaBrowser takes care of the rest. All my movies are in the same folder on the HTPC. I think it makes it pretty seamless and less time consuming this way.

Anyhow, enjoy... hope to hear back from you to see what you decide to do and how the hobby treats you.
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post #6200 of 6757 Old 07-28-2014, 03:28 AM
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Hi,

The LG drive is working fine. I will buy MakeMKV when my trail expires. I ordered a Lenovo NAS and single 4Tb Seagate NAS drive for now that I will back up on a couple of Desktop USB 3tb drives I already had.

I decided not to start with TV series but instead to start with movies I love

The only thing missing is ... what device I will use for playback. The Roku 3 upstairs seems to work and my current Blu Ray Player (Sony 56x) will work but with poor interface...

So far so good... feeling really great about the whole thing.
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post #6201 of 6757 Old 07-28-2014, 04:54 AM
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The only thing missing is ... what device I will use for playback. The Roku 3 upstairs seems to work and my current Blu Ray Player (Sony 56x) will work but with poor interface...
One possibility is to use a DMC and use an existing device as a "Play To..." target. That gives quite a bit more flexibility in terms of interface.

That assumes you have UPnP going.
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post #6202 of 6757 Old 07-28-2014, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Hi,

The LG drive is working fine. I will buy MakeMKV when my trail expires. I ordered a Lenovo NAS and single 4Tb Seagate NAS drive for now that I will back up on a couple of Desktop USB 3tb drives I already had.

I decided not to start with TV series but instead to start with movies I love

The only thing missing is ... what device I will use for playback. The Roku 3 upstairs seems to work and my current Blu Ray Player (Sony 56x) will work but with poor interface...

So far so good... feeling really great about the whole thing.
That's great! You might not need to buy MakeMKV. Currently they are in the beta stage and offer their current key here for when your trial expires.

A NAS can be a great idea, however, I have heard somewhere that it is not the greatest at transcoding. It was recommended to install the server on an HTPC or perhaps a dedicated server. If you are looking for a playback device, perhaps building a small micro HTPC with an Intel i3 would suffice. That way you can put the server on the HTPC (mediabrowser, plex, etc.)

That is just my thought process on the whole subject of server and transcoding. I can tell you that when my HTPC's i5-4440 is transcoding to my phone over the cellular network (I experimented) all the cores of the i5 were maxed out at 100%. This shouldn't be the case over the home network though. But to my dismay it is in regards to transcoding to my laptop (just checked). The thought was that UNC paths reduced server resources but that obviously is not the case. Anyhow, there is no transcoding when I am watching movies on my HTPC so I'm too concerned.

Just remember... a NAS is just that... a Networked Attached Storage. Lots here may argue that it is capable of "acting" like a server. I would argue the contrary only because of my experience with Mediabrowser server on my HTPC. Since you do have a NAS though, you have an opportunity to build an extremely small HTPC in the ITX form factor especially since you'll have no storage requirements. You can really get creative here. I would recommend an i3 or i5 on an ITX z87 or z97 motherboard (simply because of the support in turbo boost). 8GB of memory and a 120GB SSD should suffice.

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Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
One possibility is to use a DMC and use an existing device as a "Play To..." target. That gives quite a bit more flexibility in terms of interface.

That assumes you have UPnP going.
I hate to say this but you left this kind of vague. Where are you suggesting the server be on? What is a DMC?

Like I said, I think the idea of a NAS for simply storing the media, an HTPC with Windows 7 or 8.1 for housing the server and home theater playback, plus a Roku or perhaps a NUC in the other rooms for media playback (transcoding from the server) is a pretty bulletproof idea. Mediabrowser now supports Roku and other Samsung smart devices. I personally would enjoy a NUC because I love the Mediabrowser app on my Windows 8.1 laptop (I don't have a Roku to attest to its functionality with MB3).

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post #6203 of 6757 Old 07-28-2014, 09:49 AM
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Actually, I guess I agree somewhat... I had no idea was Artur9 was talking about ... I was going to look it up though.

Anyways... I'll have to burn some bridges when I come to them. So far so good and thanks for the MKV info ...
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9
One possibility is to use a DMC and use an existing device as a "Play To..." target. That gives quite a bit more flexibility in terms of interface.

That assumes you have UPnP going.
I hate to say this but you left this kind of vague. Where are you suggesting the server be on? What is a DMC?
Sorry about the vagueness.

There are multiple digital media controllers (DMC) that can send content from a DLNA/UPnP server to a digital media renderer.

Really, even to me the above is just a random mishmash of words and acronyms so let me describe something more concrete.

I have XBMC running on a Mac sharing music and videos through DLNA/UPnP. The music doesn't share so nice but videos work well. So that's the server end.

I was recently experimenting with DMCs such as BubbleUPnP, Media House (IIRC) and a few other Android-based controllers and Kinsky which is desktop-based. These are the digital media controllers (DMC).

A bunch of my devices advertise themselves as digital media renderers (DMR). These are some Sonos players, LaCie Lacinema, Panasonic VT55, Panasonic DMP-BDT500.

Recently I found that I could use my Panasonic TV as a DMR and send it both videos and music from XBMC via one of the DMC apps. The only downside is that the TV didn't decode DTS but just bitstreamed that to my AVR (so not much of a downside).

I encode my videos to MKV and the TV could play those even though the Panasonic blu ray player could not.

Long story short, maybe you already have a device(s) that can render your media and can use a DMC to get a better interface to control it.
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About the transcoding notion.... Is transcoding always needed?... Sounds painful ...

Maybe I need to have a HTPC for play back... get I get around manipulation that way?

Clearly I put the cart before the horse but like I said... so far so good.
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post #6206 of 6757 Old 07-28-2014, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
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About the transcoding notion.... Is transcoding always needed?... Sounds painful ...

Maybe I need to have a HTPC for play back... get I get around manipulation that way?
Transcoding is only needed if the playback device cannot support the file format and/or resolution of the content stored on the server. If you want to stream to a phone or tablet then I imagine most stuff will have to be transcoded. For a home theater application, buy a good media player like a WDTV Live-SMP that will natively play just about anything you throw at it without the need for transcoding. The quality of the transcoding will depend on the horsepower of the server doing the work and the server software. A good DLNA server like Mezzmo running on at least an I3 will offer good and efficient transcodings. Mezzmo even has the features to pre-transcode titles in the background while idle so they are ready when needed. Some say Plex server is also good but I have no direct experience with it.
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post #6207 of 6757 Old 07-28-2014, 12:09 PM
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Transcoding is only needed if the playback device cannot support the file format and/or resolution of the content stored on the server. If you want to stream to a phone or tablet then I imagine most stuff will have to be transcoded. For a home theater application, buy a good media player like a WDTV Live-SMP that will natively play just about anything you throw at it without the need for transcoding. The quality of the transcoding will depend on the horsepower of the server doing the work and the server software. A good DLNA server like Mezzmo running on at least an I3 will offer good and efficient transcodings. Mezzmo even has the features to pre-transcode titles in the background while idle so they are ready when needed. Some say Plex server is also good but I have no direct experience with it.
I agree for the most part... I would however recommend the server be built around the software. With that said, it appears that Mezzmo requires all devices to be DLNA? That is what I opined with the few seconds I spent on their site.

Plex and Mediabrowser, as far as I have heard, do pretty much the same thing. I specifically use Mediabrowser and love it. Mediabrowser molds seamlessly with an HTPC in the fact that WMC blends well with MB3 classic and also I have read that XBMC does well with MB3 as well.

My recommendation to Brian would be to build an HTPC (slim chassis, i3 with ITX motherboard, 8GB memory, 120GB SSD and Windows based) and dedicate this in his main room (living room or home theater) with the server installed. At this point I would likely do Mediabrowser 3 again or Plex (although the later costs I think). I would build up the NAS as time goes on, I would suggest the NAS be connected to the wireless router which likely is near the modem. In hindsight, I would probably still do Windows 8.1 (not pro though) and have Mediabrowser app installed (or theater).

As artur9 has said, there are a lot of ways to render the media once the server is installed. The HTPC is the first renderer, then for other rooms in the home you can use all sorts of DLNA devices (my Galaxy S5 will display to my Sharp TV) and so on.

Living room theater set-up:  
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1124-K.
Speakers/Sub: (4) NHT Classic Two and an NHT TwoC center + PSA-XV15 subwoofer.
HTPC: z97 mobo, 16GB mem, i5-4440, SSD+HD, LG BD drive, Win 8.1 pro w/WMC + MB3.
Content sources: OTA Winegard HD7698P, Amazon Fire TV Stick, Netflix etc.
HDTV: Sharp LC-60SQ15U (ehhh).
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post #6208 of 6757 Old 07-28-2014, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
My recommendation to Brian would be to build an HTPC (slim chassis, i3 with ITX motherboard, 8GB memory, 120GB SSD and Windows based) and dedicate this in his main room (living room or home theater) with the server installed.
That is certainly one way to do it for people who like to roll that way. I don't like having the bulk of a HTPC/server in my entertainment area. Servers should be not-seen and not-heard. I built an i3 Media-PC/server (16TB) with some muscle to run anything I needed and have it upstairs in the main computer room. I use Powerline adapters to extend my network all over the house to places where I can't run cat-6. All the TV's have a small WDTV Live-SMP as the media player and get their content from the Media-PC and a couple 4TB NAS units. The NAS units store and supply around 650 DVD.iso of TV shows. The Media-PC runs Mezzmo and TiVo servers and supplies all the full bitrate BluRay titles and HDTV captures that it transfers up from the TiVo's. I used to run WMC on it also also for overflow recording, but now have enough TiVo tuners on line to handle all our recording needs.

Yes, Mezzmo is DLNA which is fine. It is a top-notch DLNA server and the WDTV Live DLNA clients are equally good. I like using Mezzmo because of the organizing and sorting abilities it gives with its very complete playlist facility -- I don't want to page through hundreds of titles in a single long list. And most importantly, the interface is common to every HDTV in the house and maintained from a single point. The other good thing about using Mezzmo is that it isolates my video network from the disaster that is Win-7 networking.

I don't need to transcode anything because the Live-SMP's play everything natively. My daughter, however, has connected in with her wireless tablet and Mezzmo happily transcoded a full bitrate BD title with DTS-HD audio into something her tablet could play on the fly without missing a beat.

If I had to do it all over -- and I probably will because I like to play -- I would put an i5 in the box instead of an i3.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #6209 of 6757 Old 07-28-2014, 02:22 PM
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I did some experimenting and the results were not good.

Really seems I will need a HTPC to play back the files I make correctly and even then .. I wonder.

I don't really see the point of ripping without quality loss and then steaming a lower quality version all about the house.

I want something that plays back the MKVs natively,... and at this point I'm hoping that remains an option.

I was a big HTPC lover back in 1999 but I haven't been there in quite some time. Good news for me is PCs have changed for the better big time. (Fan noise concerns and such don't come into play as much for me as most of the gear is located outside the HT.)

For reference I do have a dedicated HT (not a living room setup) with Projector and 7.1 setup. You know,.. streaming Plex up to the 42 inch plasma upstairs is fine but on my projection screen in my HT if what I'm getting isn't as good as the original Blu Ray playback from my Sony BD59x,... then I'm wasting my time and money.

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Last edited by Brian Hampton; 07-28-2014 at 02:29 PM.
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post #6210 of 6757 Old 07-28-2014, 03:16 PM
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Unhappy

Well,....

I did some more testing and I do believe I've made a cost club sized mistake. I took my Mac Mini down to the HT and used it to view one of the MKVs I made ... it choked quite a bit here and there.

Point being a thousand dollar computer can't play back the files like a $40 Blu Ray player would.

I guess I should have done more homework upfront.... The idea that I could make a diy type kaliedescape type setup was tempting... And the building a library and storing a library was fine and all...

But I'm not looking forward to a $1000 HTPC that is glitchy and ultimately does almost as good as a $40 off the shelf Blu Ray player.... I used to be in for stuff like that but I don't think I can stand it anymore.

I guess,... I need some time to think this over ... But mostly I'm thinking about how difficult it will be to back out and try to return the stuff I bought.

-Brian
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