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post #6451 of 6480 Old 09-10-2014, 08:21 AM
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I don't want to recompress because I don't want to spend the time . . . it's much easier and quicker just to rip everything 1 to 1.
Yeah, that too.

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post #6452 of 6480 Old 09-10-2014, 08:36 AM
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So the RAID is viewed as one drive however do you see the size of the total combined drives in the RAID? I ask since I rip my BD's to my PC then 'drag-n-drop' to the drive I want to store it on. If it sees the RAID as one-lump-sum of the drives that'd be fine.
RAIDs would be very new to me so I know I'd have some 'learning' to do prior to moving into one so thank you for answering my rudimentary questions.
With Flexraid you see a single drive letter and the combined used/available space of ALL the drives being used to represent that volume.

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post #6453 of 6480 Old 09-10-2014, 08:47 AM
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So the RAID is viewed as one drive however do you see the size of the total combined drives in the RAID? I ask since I rip my BD's to my PC then 'drag-n-drop' to the drive I want to store it on. If it sees the RAID as one-lump-sum of the drives that'd be fine.
RAIDs would be very new to me so I know I'd have some 'learning' to do prior to moving into one so thank you for answering my rudimentary questions.
My advice would be to read up on FlexRaid to get their most up to date info. It comes as two separate function modules. One is a drive aggregation tool to build multi-drive volumes with a single addressed volume letter. The second is the RAID module which does not run continuously but updates the parity disk as a scheduled task -- i.e. nightly. I consider this perfect for a media server since it is written to infrequently and you can manually trigger a parity update after a content upload if so desired. It keeps the RAID overhead down to basically nothing. All the drives in the FlexRaid array are independent, you can put the file on any drive you want as long as it has a drive letter. The drives are accessed as normal single drives but the collection of drives you designate are protected as an array with a parity drive.

I'm still not using it because I'm not ready to dedicate one of my 3TB drives to a parity function, but eventually I will. I doubt I'll buy the drive aggregation module since I don't intend expanding beyond 10 HDD's on that server -- famous last words .

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post #6454 of 6480 Old 09-10-2014, 11:54 AM
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Kelson - your quick FlexRaid vs unRaid comparison ... or a link to same.

Grassyass

Jeff


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post #6455 of 6480 Old 09-10-2014, 12:08 PM
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For a quick overview of those and others, see the snapraid table: http://snapraid.sourceforge.net/compare.html

-Bill


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post #6456 of 6480 Old 09-10-2014, 12:18 PM
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Hi Guys:

Logging in after a while. Please help with ripping blu rays to mac. I have spent about 8 hours doing a search on this forum and elsewhere on the net, spent a lot of money buying hardware and software but am still not happy that I have the best solution.

Here is what I am trying to do:

1. Rip my blu rays and regular DVDs to watch on the iPad Air when I travel.
2. Possibly stream the content off my NAS to a TV using either Roku/Plex or Apple TV (don't want to use hte Macbook or Mac mini for this).


My initial problem is with the ripping or copying part.

Hardware: Mac Pro 2013 with 6-cores, 64G RAM and dual AMDD700 GPUs
Archgon Blu Ray external reader (said to read BDs at 6X). ordered the LG Blu burner now since that is supposed to be even faster.
output drive is at present the Mac Pro internal SSD which reads/writes at over 800MB/sec. Will copy later to the NAS.

Software: DVDFab - I bought the lifetime all-in-one package for the Mac after reading all the reviews here and elsewhere and running a couple of trials. I tried Pavtube bytecopy and Leawo ripper as well. I liked the interface and overall features and support of DVDFab the most and bought that.

Here are the times for various actions: Test BD is Fantastic Mr. Fox

Disc to ISO: 1 hr 40 minutes
Disc copy (full disc): 1 hr 50 mts (initially the rate is 7 mb/s then drops to around 4.5mb/s
ISO to MP4: 30 mts at 70 fps (file size only 128 MB)
ISO to iPad air default: 20 mts (fps 130-135), file size 2.75G
Disc to iPad air default: 50 mts (fps 38)


Have not yet tried MKV format. These are the times for DVDFab. I've enabled all the speed features (unfortunately the software does not seem to support the AMD GPUs yet) and allowed maximum RAM and CPU (cores) usage.

Is this the normal speed of things? I tried Pavtube briefly and it seems to do the disc copy in only 50 mts compared to twice that with DVDFab, which I thought is a better product. Is the bottleneck my blu ray reader? If so, the ISO to MP4 and iPad air should have been faster. I've seen speeds of less than 10 minutes reported on the DVDFab site.

Having a fast Mac Pro I would like to extract the best performance from it and I don't think I am getting it but I may be wrong. If this is the best I can expect I will live with it.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
MakeMKV is a good tool on the Mac. You get the choice of full archive or just the movie. You can also do a full archive then run MakeMKV on it to get just the movie itself. After that, typical to the Mac world - try Handbrake for creating iPad or ATV versions. Select the correct streams in the movie which translates to one video stream, usually one or two audio streams and subs if required.

Typical software - OSX MakeMKV and Handbrake
Typical sofware - Win MakeMKV or ANYDVD HD, TSmuxer, various MKV tools (free) etc. I find Clown BD very useful when forced subs are in question as it can generate a separate forced sub stream file. (FYI these can run in virtual mode on OSX via Parallels or Fusion along with Windows 7).

As for external DVD/Blue Ray drives, it depends on the speed of the drive and the enclosure connections. USB3, Firewire 800 might be your best bet unless you can do eSATA. Since you have I gather the older Mac Pro tower, you can opt to put in an internal Blue Ray unit. There are sites that show how to do this. I have in the past put Blue Ray players into Mac Pro towers (older MP) and connected directly to the motherboard via SATA connection and one power cable.

Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.
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post #6457 of 6480 Old 09-10-2014, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Kelson - your quick FlexRaid vs unRaid comparison ... or a link to same.

Grassyass

Jeff
I know nothing about unraid.

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post #6458 of 6480 Old 09-10-2014, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
For a quick overview of those and others, see the snapraid table: http://snapraid.sourceforge.net/compare.html

-Bill
Wow ... that chart points to SnapRaid as the best choice .... though I do like the idea of booting into unRaid from a USB drive.


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Last edited by pepar; 09-10-2014 at 02:50 PM.
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post #6459 of 6480 Old 09-10-2014, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Kelson - your quick FlexRaid vs unRaid comparison ... or a link to same.

Grassyass

Jeff

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post #6460 of 6480 Old 09-10-2014, 02:53 PM
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^^^

yikes!


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post #6461 of 6480 Old 09-10-2014, 03:01 PM
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Wow ... that chart points to SnapRaid as the best choice .... though I do like the idea of booting into unRaid from a USB drive.
I'm liking it. Minimalistic, very well suited to media file libraries: large files, largely static collection. Snapshot as opposed to live RAID.

I have some usage notes here: curator: a file server.

(Sorry for going off topic. These topics get discussed a lot in the HTPC forum, and we should take it over there).

-Bill


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post #6462 of 6480 Old 09-10-2014, 07:06 PM
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Here are the times for various actions: Test BD is Fantastic Mr. Fox

Disc to ISO: 1 hr 40 minutes
Disc copy (full disc): 1 hr 50 mts (initially the rate is 7 mb/s then drops to around 4.5mb/s
ISO to MP4: 30 mts at 70 fps (file size only 128 MB)
ISO to iPad air default: 20 mts (fps 130-135), file size 2.75G
Disc to iPad air default: 50 mts (fps 38)
Just ripped main movie of Wreck-it Ralph with makemkv. According to the the elapsed time at the end it took 56:10 for the 1:40:00 movie.

I have a 2009 (IIRC) Mac Pro with an internal Pioneer BD drive on the internal SATA bus ripping to a dedicated drive on the SATA bus used by the drive bays. My Mac is 2x2GHz Xeons and 4GB.
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post #6463 of 6480 Old 09-10-2014, 07:48 PM
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Why does it take over three times as long to rip from a MAC then it does a PC.

39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3

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post #6464 of 6480 Old 09-10-2014, 08:39 PM
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Why does it take over three times as long to rip from a MAC then it does a PC.
Because most 'Movie Manipulating' software was written for the PC and ported to the Mac as an afterthought. If I'd dumped 2 kilo-bucks plus on a Mac I'd be pissed off. Or I'd 'dump' about $400 more into a cheap Ivy Bridge or Haswell and do it fast (and right).


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(Just as big an idea thief as)

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post #6465 of 6480 Old 09-11-2014, 04:38 AM
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This has always been the key point for me. The first step in the re-coding process is for the already compressed source frames to be fully rendered. These rendered frames are already lossy representations of the original captures and as such are the best representations of the original source capture you will ever obtain. Regardless of the setting tweaking and specific user expertise, the H.264 encoder is simply going to apply a lossy compression algorithm to a lossy representation and thus add more loss and detail degradation as it re-compresses the already lossy representation - the whole copy-of-a-copy syndrome.



The point here is not to argue or debate the merits or quality of re-compression in the hands of the skilled hobbyist . The point here is that for someone, like me, who is totally anal about picture quality, whether or not I can "see" a difference is completely irrelevant. Just knowing the re-compressed video has been stepped on and further degraded is not simply unacceptable but anathema. I would not be surprised if that lies at the heart of many peoples' vehement objections to re-compressing their BluRays.

One of my key points is: I would think that anyone would have a hard time seeing a difference when the original movie was encoded with more bits than needed.

Just as an example, a movie that looks transparent from the original at 10bits, but was encoded instead at 50bits, then re-encoded down to say 15 bits.

I don't know if that made much sense but it's 4am and I'm tired [emoji4]

Encoding tip: for those that run their movies on software players: I suggest you try encoding at 10bit mode instead of 8bit since you are t being constrained by hardware.
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post #6466 of 6480 Old 09-11-2014, 05:14 AM
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Why does it take over three times as long to rip from a MAC then it does a PC.
I think, in my case, my internal BD drive is relatively slow. makemkv reports read rate as 8.5MB (2x). According to Activity Monitor CPUs are loafing at 28% and the write rate is limited by how fast it's reading.

I think the Superdrive is a lot faster at ripping DVDs.

On the other hand, with 2 drives, both ripping, I don't notice any slowdown either.
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post #6467 of 6480 Old 09-11-2014, 06:04 AM
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I think, in my case, my internal BD drive is relatively slow. makemkv reports read rate as 8.5MB (2x). According to Activity Monitor CPUs are loafing at 28% and the write rate is limited by how fast it's reading.

I think the Superdrive is a lot faster at ripping DVDs.

On the other hand, with 2 drives, both ripping, I don't notice any slowdown either.
That would be it then. It would take a long time at 2X speed.

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post #6468 of 6480 Old 09-11-2014, 07:36 AM
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Wow ... that chart points to SnapRaid as the best choice .... though I do like the idea of booting into unRaid from a USB drive.
FlexRaid, SnapRaid, and unRaid are all good choices - but there are differences between the implementations that you want to get comfortable with before making your decision. FWIW, I really like booting unRaid from the USB stick.
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post #6469 of 6480 Old 09-11-2014, 08:43 AM
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FlexRaid, SnapRaid, and unRaid are all good choices - but there are differences between the implementations that you want to get comfortable with before making your decision. FWIW, I really like booting unRaid from the USB stick.
How much of a problem is having "no" in the Integrity column? Being tolerant of only one drive failure? How do the GUIs compare, and can Snap and Flex be used on a headless computer?

Finally, could SnapRaid be integrated into a Linux boot stick?

Jeff


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post #6470 of 6480 Old 09-11-2014, 08:53 AM
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How much of a problem is having "no" in the Integrity column? Being tolerant of only one drive failure? How do the GUIs compare, and can Snap and Flex be used on a headless computer?

Finally, could SnapRaid be integrated into a Linux boot stick?

Jeff
Integrity (as referenced in the snapraid comparison chart) is not about drive failures but the detection and repair of bad data silently produced by the disc in its normal operation. See: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/storage/da...n-you-know/191

I run snapraid headless. I login with ssh in to do maintenance. No experience with flexraid or any gui.

Boot stick: that was my original plan but I never got around to it. Snapraid is a plain vanilla C program and should be easy to integrate into various setups.

-Bill


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post #6471 of 6480 Old 09-11-2014, 10:15 AM
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^^^^

I see the USB boot stick as a binky and would have a hard time abandoning it.

But more research I need to do.

Jeff


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post #6472 of 6480 Old 09-11-2014, 01:01 PM
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How much of a problem is having "no" in the Integrity column? Being tolerant of only one drive failure? How do the GUIs compare, and can Snap and Flex be used on a headless computer?

Finally, could SnapRaid be integrated into a Linux boot stick?

Jeff
Integrity (CRC check) is nice, but given the type of files I store (primarily media or backups) I don't worry much about it. If I were storing a large number of small files that I couldn't easily recover it might be more of an issue. Also, over the years I've had a number of disk failures but never any bit rot style file corruption.

Only tolerating a single drive failure (single parity) isn't a problem for me because I have a small array. Multiple parity is on the unRaid development plan, though, and I'm very hopeful they will have it available by the time I need it. I wouldn't want a second parity drive until I hit 6-8 drives in the array, and with today's high density drives that's a lot of data. It is a legitimate issue today for people with large arrays, though.

Finally, unRAID is both your OS and your software raid solution in one. So, can you use use FlexRaid or SnapRaid off a USB stick? That's entirely up to you, since acquiring the OS is your responsibility. Can you get an Ubuntu Linux distro running from a USB stick? Personally, I don't mind building Windows boxes but didn't want to roll my own Linux box. unRaid gives you the easiest approach to a Linux based PC NAS, IMO.
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post #6474 of 6480 Old 09-11-2014, 01:15 PM
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Can you get an Ubuntu Linux distro running from a USB stick?
Yes. Very simple to do. I have one that I plug into my desktop Win-7 machine when I want to play with linux but not configure a dual boot machine. The boot up is pretty slow as might be expected.

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Personally, I don't mind building Windows boxes but didn't want to roll my own Linux box. unRaid gives you the easiest approach to a Linux based PC NAS, IMO.
A Windows box is just a box until you install Windows.

I have in the past set up my main hotrod as a Win 7/Linux dual boot. For me, that was the challenge as once I booted into Linux I had no idea what to do.

I am wicha on the convenience of the unRaid USB stick.

Jeff


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post #6476 of 6480 Old 09-11-2014, 07:56 PM
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MakeMKV is a good tool on the Mac. You get the choice of full archive or just the movie. You can also do a full archive then run MakeMKV on it to get just the movie itself. After that, typical to the Mac world - try Handbrake for creating iPad or ATV versions. Select the correct streams in the movie which translates to one video stream, usually one or two audio streams and subs if required.

Typical software - OSX MakeMKV and Handbrake
Typical sofware - Win MakeMKV or ANYDVD HD, TSmuxer, various MKV tools (free) etc. I find Clown BD very useful when forced subs are in question as it can generate a separate forced sub stream file. (FYI these can run in virtual mode on OSX via Parallels or Fusion along with Windows 7).

As for external DVD/Blue Ray drives, it depends on the speed of the drive and the enclosure connections. USB3, Firewire 800 might be your best bet unless you can do eSATA. Since you have I gather the older Mac Pro tower, you can opt to put in an internal Blue Ray unit. There are sites that show how to do this. I have in the past put Blue Ray players into Mac Pro towers (older MP) and connected directly to the motherboard via SATA connection and one power cable.

Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.
Thanks Phrehdd and everyone else for helping out with your experience.

I've been busy the past few days trying to figure this out. The first thing I realized was that my external reader was a bottleneck, reading max at 2X. I spent $90 on it from Newegg - from a company called Archgon.

Anyway, things have improved since I got the new LG BE14NU40 reader. I don't have an internal CD/DVD drive (it's the late 2013 Mac Pro), so didn't want to spend another $100 getting a blank enclosure and a bare drive.

Initially I was still getting slow reads (at least I thought so). I thought it was riplocked (had to read up about this). Then I ran a readtest with Optic Drive's CD SPeed test which gives a number of 7.6X for DL disk (Avengers) and 11.3X for SL disk (Walking Tall). This suggests that the disk is not riplocked. Anyway, I tried to flash the new firmware released last week but the drive seems to have a version number higher than that already (at least according to the flashing program).

So I ran some tests on the same disk (Marvels Avengers - dual layer BD, 2 hrs 22 mts length). I chose this because this is the reference disk on DVDFab's site (see attached image again).

Fullcopy (Clone) with DVDFab: 32 minutes (max read 22MB/s and file size 46G)
Full copy (backup) with MakeMKV: 50 mts, max read rate 5.7X
Fullcopy (clone) with DVDFab on a Windows 8.1 laptop with CUDA etc: 39 mts (there is really no benefit of the CUDA and Intelsync when you just do a clone I guess)

Copy to BD25 ISO from Disk: 52 mts, max read rate 17mb/s, file size 24G (suggests it takes longer to make a BD25 copy as it involves compression).

Now for ISO to MP4 conversion times: Same disk (Avengers);

BD50 ISO to iPad air (1900x1080) MP4 = 35 mts - 5.2GB
BD50 ISO to iPad air at low res (840x400) = 30 mts - 1.2GB
BD25 ISO to 840x400 = 30 mts - 1.07GB

Since the Mac cannot use the hardware in its GPU, the conversion times are much slower than the 9 or 10 mts quoted on the DVDfab site. I am not even getting the software alone time of 24 mts for the conversion.

Sadly, the program also seems to be very slow in ripping DVDs. I am getting 45 mts for a DL 8 G DVD for a straight ISO.

I have tried Leawo, Pavtube, AnyDVD (very clunky interface), either directly on the Mac or on Win 7 via VMWare Fusion (or even my office laptop with Win8). Nothing beats DVDFab overall , but I am still bummed by the lack of hardware support. It is also quirky, some disks it will take several hours to rip. MakeMKV is more consistent but does not do ISO and is slower than DVD for a full copy.

Here it is again, the reference times from DVDFab's website.
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post #6477 of 6480 Old 09-14-2014, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tdallen View Post
Integrity (CRC check) is nice, but given the type of files I store (primarily media or backups) I don't worry much about it. If I were storing a large number of small files that I couldn't easily recover it might be more of an issue. Also, over the years I've had a number of disk failures but never any bit rot style file corruption.



Only tolerating a single drive failure (single parity) isn't a problem for me because I have a small array. Multiple parity is on the unRaid development plan, though, and I'm very hopeful they will have it available by the time I need it. I wouldn't want a second parity drive until I hit 6-8 drives in the array, and with today's high density drives that's a lot of data. It is a legitimate issue today for people with large arrays, though.



Finally, unRAID is both your OS and your software raid solution in one. So, can you use use FlexRaid or SnapRaid off a USB stick? That's entirely up to you, since acquiring the OS is your responsibility. Can you get an Ubuntu Linux distro running from a USB stick? Personally, I don't mind building Windows boxes but didn't want to roll my own Linux box. unRaid gives you the easiest approach to a Linux based PC NAS, IMO.

I would think that drive capacity would be the more important factor in determining whether you should have 2+ parity drives as I still dread the drive failure during the initialization of a degraded array when your array is not redundant anymore.
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post #6478 of 6480 Old Yesterday, 07:23 AM
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I would think that drive capacity would be the more important factor in determining whether you should have 2+ parity drives as I still dread the drive failure during the initialization of a degraded array when your array is not redundant anymore.
While I understand your point, the economics don't work for me. Sure, doing full drive mirroring or 2 parity drives for 3 data drives is more protection than 1 parity drive for 4 data drives. I'd rather work on my offsite backup strategy with that money rather than invest in lots of redundant hard drives, though - I think that's a false sense of security. My priority will change somewhere north of 4 data drives - multiple drive failures can and do happen.
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post #6479 of 6480 Old Yesterday, 10:42 AM
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I dislike cross-posting so I apologize in advance, but I posted this in another thread and it clearly belongs here where a lot of the MakeMKV experts reside and can comment.
------------------------------------------
I rip all my BluRay titles to native .m2ts files using Clown_BD. But lately I've been taking a good look at MakeMKV. The tool has improved a lot from when I last visited it 3 yr ago and was put off by issues with it and MKV in general. I'm quite impressed with its ability to rip very recent BD releases and I like the Backup mode for ripping the full disk. I've already come to the conclusion that should I ever be so foolish as to rip the individual episodes of a TV series DVD disk, I would use MakeMKV and rip them to MKV format.

The reason for this post is the following problem I discovered regarding BD.MKV:
I typically use DVD Fab to rip the full BD disk to my HDD then use Clown_BD on the rip to extract the main_title to BD.m2ts. So, I used MakeMKV on a couple of these full disk rips to create the main_title MKV. The MKV's all played perfectly when streamed to my Live-SMP's with support for chapter skip -- no problem there, I had video, HD audio and subtitles -- it was quite nice.

What I didn't like was when I opened the MKV's in TSMuxeR, it issued an error about file structure compatibility and would not show any subtitle streams in the mux list. In one case, RoboCop, I created the MKV both from the DVD Fab rip and using MakeMKV to rip straight from the disk. When I opened either of them in TSMuxeR only the video stream could be read. In contrast, MediaInfo reads the MKV properly without error and shows all the BD streams present -- which I already know from the playback. I want to be able to use TSMuxeR as a way to remux the MKV back into an .m2ts container. Have others seen this issue with MakeMKV files and TSMuxeR?

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #6480 of 6480 Old Yesterday, 09:52 PM
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Mmh, it never crossed my mind to use TSMuxer for MKVs so I can't say. But if you do rip your DVD episodes, you should be able to do so by changing the minimum title length in MakeMKV.


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