Ripping Blu-Rays II - Page 220 - AVS Forum
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post #6571 of 6583 Unread 09-30-2014, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Turns out it was much easier than I thought to get started but now I realize the forced subtitle issue doesn't seem to have a solution. Some discs have multiple forced subs. So, I guess some discs just won't be comparable with my plan.

If I have to consult a database of titles with subtitle tracks that have to be enabled manually, That doesn't work the way I hoped.

I think I'm out... Luckily my investment so far with the NAS has been small. (And, It can be used for other things as well.)

-Brian
I'm not sure what your goal is. If your playback device supports forced subs (in one form or another), and you rip your discs carefully, then no manual intervention is required at playback time. But, getting the discs ripped properly can be a hassle.
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post #6572 of 6583 Unread 09-30-2014, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottJ View Post
I'm not sure what your goal is. If your playback device supports forced subs (in one form or another), and you rip your discs carefully, then no manual intervention is required at playback time. But, getting the discs ripped properly can be a hassle.
I didn't realize there were playback devices that correctly handled forced subs... I use the WDLIVE and I'm new to all this.

Why the subs aren't burned it like at the movies is purely beyond me.... Actually now in the age of digital theaters ... maybe they are on a separate file at movie theaters too.... I don't know.
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post #6573 of 6583 Unread 09-30-2014, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
I didn't realize there were playback devices that correctly handled forced subs... I use the WDLIVE and I'm new to all this.

Why the subs aren't burned it like at the movies is purely beyond me.... Actually now in the age of digital theaters ... maybe they are on a separate file at movie theaters too.... I don't know.
Some of the Dunes can handle forced subs properly. I'm not sure what else is out there.

Having subs separate enables the studio to easily handle different languages on the same disc.
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post #6574 of 6583 Unread 09-30-2014, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
^ Maybe the reviewer is confused. The player has no way to tell if the AVR supports Atmos, and the same bitstream will work on non-Atmos AVRs (the extensions just get ignored). So an Atmos track effectively defaults to 7.1 automatically, and there should be no reason to include a separate non-Atmos 7.1 track.
I think you're right. The problem was they listed the 7.1 track (as part of the disc spec) along side the Atmos track as well as the usual lossy formats. This lead the reviewer to think it was a discrete track. Even blu-ray.com's review lists TrueHD 7.1 separately from Dolby Atmos.
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post #6575 of 6583 Unread 09-30-2014, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Problems with forced subtitles make me want to forget my idea of ripping Blu.
What problems? Granted, they take a bit of extra work but once you've muxed them as first track and set the flags properly, it's no issue (especailly given the comparatively small amoun of BDs with forced subs out there).

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I was merging the Extended Editions using TSMuxer if that makes any difference.
I was using MKVToolnix, worked just fine and plays on the WDTV too.


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post #6576 of 6583 Unread Yesterday, 03:31 AM
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Originally Posted by techflaws View Post
What problems? Granted, they take a bit of extra work but once you've muxed them as first track and set the flags properly, it's no issue (especailly given the comparatively small amoun of BDs with forced subs out there).


I was using MKVToolnix, worked just fine and plays on the WDTV too.
Ok... I'm still learning. I have so far tried identifying the forced subs and will read up on things like flags and muxing... (I think I've muxed something once ... I'm not a good muxer so far.)

I'm actually fine with having to do a lot of stuff "by hand" as it's fun in some way... I like my hobbies time consuming.

Thanks,

-Brain
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post #6577 of 6583 Unread Yesterday, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Ok... I'm still learning. I have so far tried identifying the forced subs and will read up on things like flags and muxing... (I think I've muxed something once ... I'm not a good muxer so far.)

I'm actually fine with having to do a lot of stuff "by hand" as it's fun in some way... I like my hobbies time consuming.

Thanks,

-Brain
Coping with forced subs requires manual intervention because virtually no players handle forced subs in their native form. By necessity, your point of reference starts with your player(s) and its capabilities -- that determines what you need to do. Like Techflaws, I extract forced subs to a separate sub track and mux it in first in line. I don't concern myself with sub flags because I use WD Live-SMP players which ignore flags on sub tracks but has a nice button on the remote to turn on and cycle through the subs. I mux the forced sub in first and put a flag in the title name to tell me it has forced subs -- as soon as the movie plays I press the sub button once and forced subs are turned on -- simple.

Identifying forced subs in a title can also be quite simple. The first thing I do is check this reference so I know what to expect. Then I use Clown_BD to do a quick extract of all the English subs and inspect them using SupRip. Clown properly identifies and extracts 90% of forced subs into a separate track labeled "forced". I then know which sub tracks to include in the rip and Clown automatically muxes the forced sub in first in the list. The only ones that require a bit extra work are the forced subs that are not properly flagged and that Clown can't identify. From the reference above I know they are there and it is just a matter of picking them out during the inspection for inclusion in the rip.

Once you have a method established everything just flows along.
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post #6578 of 6583 Unread Yesterday, 11:01 AM
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Ok. I'm very confused between all of the SUB stuff (let me explain). I've ripped my BD's using ToNMT but one downside of that tool is, even though there are boxes to check to select subtitle tracks, it won't add any subtitles. For foreign films I've gone and downloaded the entire .srt file (getting it to play in-time w/the movie takes some work during the entire movie process) and I have a Popcorn Hour A400.

For some titles (the last Die Hard movie) I realized once I start watching I don't know what they are saying since no subs appear (so i download the entire .srt movie sub). Some movies (can't think of one off the top of my head) HAVE the subs appear during the movie without me having done anything.

I've never used TsMuxer on its own (though that program is used in ToNMT) or MakeMV but I'm willing to use one of those IF it can do what I need: only have the subtitles appear when necessary (like the last Die Hard movie).

It sounds like one of those programs would do the 'trick'?

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post #6579 of 6583 Unread Yesterday, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Wryker View Post
I've never used TsMuxer on its own (though that program is used in ToNMT) or MakeMV but I'm willing to use one of those IF it can do what I need: only have the subtitles appear when necessary (like the last Die Hard movie).

It sounds like one of those programs would do the 'trick'?
Knowing nothing about the A400, the first question to ask is what are the capabilities of the player with regards to how it handles forced subs? Everything else follows from there. If it doesn't process flags properly, there is not much you can do to get forced subs to play automatically.

As to software, I know a lot of people like to use MKV but from what I have seen the MKV tools are not the best to use when you have to cope with the various types of forced subtitles. IMHO I think it is hard to beat Clown_BD because as part of its process it fully demuxes the BD title and puts the streams in a separate folder so they can be inspected. I have ripped BD titles with 4 & 5 English subtitle tracks and would have no clue which one was the movie track and which ones were director commentary or hearing impaired subs unless I used Clown_BD to demux them so I could inspect them to see what is what -- then of course there are the forced subs. After having done several hundred disks over the last couple years, I would never give up the control I have with Clown_BD and should I ever decide I wanted to start using MKV files instead of .m2ts, I would still use Clown_BD to do the processing and then just use MakeMKV to convert the Clown output to an MKV file.

PS - with my players the only subs that appear automatically are the ones that are hard-coded into the movie frames.

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post #6580 of 6583 Unread Yesterday, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Problems with forced subtitles make me want to forget my idea of ripping Blu.

My wife asked if there was a better way to store my 1200 Blu Rays (she didn't like the look of my library I guess) and I said yes, it can all be on couple of small NAS boxes.

Turns out it was much easier than I thought to get started but now I realize the forced subtitle issue doesn't seem to have a solution. Some discs have multiple forced subs. So, I guess some discs just won't be comparable with my plan.

If I have to consult a database of titles with subtitle tracks that have to be enabled manually, That doesn't work the way I hoped.

I think I'm out... Luckily my investment so far with the NAS has been small. (And, It can be used for other things as well.)

-Brian
For 2D BDs you can also use one of the other media players that handle full BD menus. I use a PCH C200 and I have a Netgear player. I use them if I want the full menus with 2D content. FOr 3D content I have no choice. I have to use my PCH A00 media players which doesn't have full BD menus.

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post #6581 of 6583 Unread Yesterday, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

PS - with my players the only subs that appear automatically are the ones that are hard-coded into the movie frames.
And those hard-coded subs would likewise appear on any player. It seems to me that this is the path everyone should take as it future-proofs their rips.

Jeff


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post #6582 of 6583 Unread Yesterday, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Knowing nothing about the A400, the first question to ask is what are the capabilities of the player with regards to how it handles forced subs? Everything else follows from there. If it doesn't process flags properly, there is not much you can do to get forced subs to play automatically.

As to software, I know a lot of people like to use MKV but from what I have seen the MKV tools are not the best to use when you have to cope with the various types of forced subtitles. IMHO I think it is hard to beat Clown_BD because as part of its process it fully demuxes the BD title and puts the streams in a separate folder so they can be inspected. I have ripped BD titles with 4 & 5 English subtitle tracks and would have no clue which one was the movie track and which ones were director commentary or hearing impaired subs unless I used Clown_BD to demux them so I could inspect them to see what is what -- then of course there are the forced subs. After having done several hundred disks over the last couple years, I would never give up the control I have with Clown_BD and should I ever decide I wanted to start using MKV files instead of .m2ts, I would still use Clown_BD to do the processing and then just use MakeMKV to convert the Clown output to an MKV file.

PS - with my players the only subs that appear automatically are the ones that are hard-coded into the movie frames.
I forgot that I've used ClownBD in the past (it's been quite some time since I used it) so I'd be interested in how you determine which stream IS a forced sub one to just get the subs that would appear in the theater/ISO file. I'm guessing the hard-coded ones are what I'm seeing on those rips. The A400 can play subs since I've played them before and I'd 'bet' it handles forced subs too.

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post #6583 of 6583 Unread Yesterday, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Wryker View Post
I'd be interested in how you determine which stream IS a forced sub one to just get the subs that would appear in the theater/ISO file.
Just read my posts from the last couple days we have been discussing this, starting from here:
Ripping Blu-Rays II

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