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the_abbot's Avatar the_abbot
06:57 AM Liked: 15
post #7021 of 7183
01-05-2015 | Posts: 643
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MKV rip vs original bluray PQ.
For some reason, in my mind I can clearly see the difference between the two. Is it just my imagination or does an mkv rip (no compression) have slightly less PQ than the original bluray format?
Kelson's Avatar Kelson
07:01 AM Liked: 513
post #7022 of 7183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
What version of Eac3to are you using?
I don't know the specific version. It is whatever version that was installed with Clown_BD.

So here is what else to try. If you know the playlist number you want to rip, try using TSMuxer instead of eac3to.
Kelson's Avatar Kelson
07:10 AM Liked: 513
post #7023 of 7183
01-05-2015 | Posts: 10,678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_abbot View Post
MKV rip vs original bluray PQ.
For some reason, in my mind I can clearly see the difference between the two. Is it just my imagination or does an mkv rip (no compression) have slightly less PQ than the original bluray format?
As long as there is no re-compression or re-coding involved in the rip, the digital content of the rip is identical to the BD source. What may not be the same are the settings on your HDTV for the HDMI inputs used to play a BD disk vs. the media player you are using to stream the rip.

People have made reports like this before and many were traced to a BD player on one HDMI input and a media player on another HDMI input. Most HDTV's allow discrete video settings for individual HDMI inputs. If the settings on the HDMI inputs you are comparing are not the same then you will see differences in the PQ due to video processing effects.
agogley's Avatar agogley
07:41 PM Liked: 21
post #7024 of 7183
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MakeMKV Question.


I've used MakeMKV from BDs before and never thought to do this:


http://www.makemkv.com/dtshd/


Is that still necessary? It seems like I've been getting the DTS-HD file just fine with setting the path location for the dtsdecoderdll.dll.
agogley's Avatar agogley
07:44 PM Liked: 21
post #7025 of 7183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
I don't know the specific version. It is whatever version that was installed with Clown_BD.

So here is what else to try. If you know the playlist number you want to rip, try using TSMuxer instead of eac3to.


I tried that and it worked successfully. Now what?
hogger129's Avatar hogger129
07:49 PM Liked: 40
post #7026 of 7183
01-05-2015 | Posts: 203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
MakeMKV Question.


I've used MakeMKV from BDs before and never thought to do this:


http://www.makemkv.com/dtshd/


Is that still necessary? It seems like I've been getting the DTS-HD file just fine with setting the path location for the dtsdecoderdll.dll.

It's only necessary if you're converting the DTS-HD to FLAC in MakeMKV. If you did a rip and kept the DTS-HD audio, something like Handbrake or VidCoder should not have a problem re-encoding DTS-HD to other formats.
Kelson's Avatar Kelson
08:23 PM Liked: 513
post #7027 of 7183
01-05-2015 | Posts: 10,678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
I tried that and it worked successfully. Now what?
Cool. So, where do you want to go from here? You have an .m2ts file from TSMuxer that is a perfectly good container (that is all I use for BD). If you want to end up with MKV, then click the "Blu-ray disk" output button in TSMuxer. That will generate a BDMV folder structure for the title with a playlist that contains the chapter points. You then "open" that folder in MakeMKV and proceed to make your MKV in normal fashion.

You are home free.

P.S. -- eac3to is v 3.27.0.0
agogley's Avatar agogley
09:00 PM Liked: 21
post #7028 of 7183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Cool. So, where do you want to go from here? You have an .m2ts file from TSMuxer that is a perfectly good container (that is all I use for BD). If you want to end up with MKV, then click the "Blu-ray disk" output button in TSMuxer. That will generate a BDMV folder structure for the title with a playlist that contains the chapter points. You then "open" that folder in MakeMKV and proceed to make your MKV in normal fashion.

You are home free.

P.S. -- eac3to is v 3.27.0.0


LOL. I want to be able to use Clown! I like being able to generate a second AC3 file. I don't normally use MKV. I normally use an ISO.


Oddly enough, I just put in Live Die Repeat, Edge of Tomorrow. Guess what? Works fine. Going to go back and try the previous movies.
agogley's Avatar agogley
10:46 PM Liked: 21
post #7029 of 7183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Cool. So, where do you want to go from here? You have an .m2ts file from TSMuxer that is a perfectly good container (that is all I use for BD). If you want to end up with MKV, then click the "Blu-ray disk" output button in TSMuxer. That will generate a BDMV folder structure for the title with a playlist that contains the chapter points. You then "open" that folder in MakeMKV and proceed to make your MKV in normal fashion.

You are home free.

P.S. -- eac3to is v 3.27.0.0


So when I pop in Divergent and run Clown, I get this message saying "Sony Screenpass, use mpls 0267?" To which I reply no and then go into Clown. I wonder if this is part of the problem?
agogley's Avatar agogley
10:59 PM Liked: 21
post #7030 of 7183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Why are we whining about what studios do differently on rentals than on the retail release?


I hate it when studios give me a second rate release on the rental because I actually watch a lot of rentals (on a standalone BD player in my HT). I don't want to pay for the retail version just to watch it once. (I usually don't buy a movie unless I've rented it first too).


It's really obvious when this happens because my receiver tells me which audio is running. So here I am, playing by the rules...paying for a rental and watching it the way the studios tell me to like a good boy on my licensed Panasonic BD player and yet I get stuck with second rate audio and apparently, video.
aaronwt's Avatar aaronwt
11:01 PM Liked: 873
post #7031 of 7183
01-05-2015 | Posts: 22,350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
I hate it when studios give me a second rate release on the rental because I actually watch a lot of rentals (on a standalone BD player in my HT). I don't want to pay for the retail version just to watch it once. (I usually don't buy a movie unless I've rented it first too).


It's really obvious when this happens because my receiver tells me which audio is running. So here I am, playing by the rules...paying for a rental and watching it the way the studios tell me to like a good boy on my licensed Panasonic BD player and yet I get stuck with second rate audio and apparently, video.
You need to rent from a place that doesn't use rental versions. Like www.3d-blurayrental.com
DotJun's Avatar DotJun
11:14 PM Liked: 67
post #7032 of 7183
01-05-2015 | Posts: 1,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Clown_BD is an easy GUI for eac3to which then links to BDSup2Sub. I use Clown to demux all the English subtitle tracks. It will identify forced subs that have header flags and create separate subtitle tracks containing only the forced subs. It will not identify forced sub tracks without header flags. So I use Suprip to quickly inspect all the sub tracks to identify the track(s) that I want in the rip. I then do the full rip. For a forced sub track that Clown identifies, it always muxes it in first in line. My player ignores flags so I put my own flag in the filename to let me know to turn on the first sub track when I watch the movie.



This process is specific to my particular player and the work-flow originated from discussions in my player's thread.
I see. I don't use clown so I wasn't aware of its capabilities. Thanks for the info.

Why not use suprip to spit out an srt of forced only, then mux that into your movie? You simply have to tell your player to always turn subs on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
How are you hardburning them in?


Also, Dbone wrote an article (kinda dated now) about using clown_BD and MKV Merge together. This might be useful for this topic.
Only way to hard burn is to re-encode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
Eac3to will not process it. I just ran it from the cmd line and it simply will not work. So at least I know it is Eac3to and not anything to do with the Clown_BD GUI. Now just to figure out what I need to do to fix it.

The only other possible thing I can think of, is that AnyDVD HD has something wrong with it. But I can rip it and play it no problem so that seems a little odd. Also seems odd that I can process STTNG but not Divergent or Stargate. Maybe something to due with seamless branching. I'm checking over at the Doom9 forum to see if anybody can help me there.


What version of Eac3to are you using?
It's not eac3to as I own both of those discs and did not have any problems. In fact, I don't think I've ever had any problems with any discs I've processed.

What is the command line you are using on this operation of eac?
techflaws's Avatar techflaws
11:47 PM Liked: 29
post #7033 of 7183
01-05-2015 | Posts: 1,054
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
What is your process that you use, since you are using MakeMKV, right? (I'm sure you probably described it 15 times in this 500 page thread).
Depends on how many BDs I rip in a row and what tracks I find when checking the BD first in VLC. Ripping one BD only, I sometimes even open the main playlist in MKVToolnix (with AnyDVD in the background) and go from there. If it's several BDs, I rip the main movies to HDD with DVDFab and then drop them in MakeMKV Batch Converter. I'm using the advanced settings in MakeMKV to mux German audio and subs (and forced) as the first tracks and if this does not work due to the forced subs not being flagged, I remux them using MKVToolnix's job queue. Often enough this works just fine so I don't care about an additional step since it's mostly automated reducing my time of attention.
GusGus748s's Avatar GusGus748s
12:33 AM Liked: 609
post #7034 of 7183
01-06-2015 | Posts: 6,487
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I stopped using Clown, and now I only use MakeMKV. With MakeMKV I can have same PQ as BD, DTS-MA / TrueHD / Atmos and AC3. Clown takes too long to rip BD's. It used to be my ripper of choice, but now MakeMKV works much better. There has been a few BD's that MakeMKV couldn't rip. So, I used ClownBD and MKVMerge to create a MKV with chapters.
pepar's Avatar pepar
06:46 AM Liked: 177
post #7035 of 7183
01-06-2015 | Posts: 25,246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
I hate it when studios give me a second rate release on the rental because I actually watch a lot of rentals (on a standalone BD player in my HT). I don't want to pay for the retail version just to watch it once. (I usually don't buy a movie unless I've rented it first too).

It's really obvious when this happens because my receiver tells me which audio is running. So here I am, playing by the rules...paying for a rental and watching it the way the studios tell me to like a good boy on my licensed Panasonic BD player and yet I get stuck with second rate audio and apparently, video.
My MO is to only buy Blu-Rays l-o-n-g after they are released, and then do it from Amazon Marketplace so that I am paying a fraction of the release price. I should mention that I do see many movies in the theater, nearly always 3D, IMAX or IMAX 3D. In a way, that is part of the screening process I use to decide what movies to buy. So rentals play zero role in my enjoyment of movies. Generally, I don't watch those movies in my home theater, but do so on a bedroom 5.1 system ... and from bed.

Movies that I want to watch but not own, I stream. So I accept (and never notice) the audio may not be lossless.

My wife likes Xfinity On Demand where titles can cost $5-$6 to "rent." I find that absurd, but she enjoys it so I refrain from stating my opinion.

You could simply not rent titles that cripple the audio?

Jeff
Kelson's Avatar Kelson
06:49 AM Liked: 513
post #7036 of 7183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
LOL. I want to be able to use Clown! I like being able to generate a second AC3 file. I don't normally use MKV. I normally use an ISO.


Oddly enough, I just put in Live Die Repeat, Edge of Tomorrow. Guess what? Works fine. Going to go back and try the previous movies.
OK, I guess I got turned around here.

So for the problem title(s) that crashes eac3to, use TSMuxer to open the playlist of the title and select all the streams of that title (they are all selected by default). Set the TSMuxer output to "Blu-ray disk" and click go. TSMuxer will then extract the title with all its streams and join the seamless branching title into a single .m2ts file. The final output will be the BluRay BDMV folder structure and TSMuxer will have fixed any problems with the original .m2ts file that was crashing eac3to.

You can then run Clown_BD and open the BDMV folder that TSMuxer just created and process the video with Clown like you always did.
pepar's Avatar pepar
06:59 AM Liked: 177
post #7037 of 7183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
You need to rent from a place that doesn't use rental versions. Like www.3d-blurayrental.com
Wow! That there even is such a business suggests that there is a market for the better audio of release versions and/or extended/director's cuts. Interesting,
artur9's Avatar artur9
07:10 AM Liked: 50
post #7038 of 7183
01-06-2015 | Posts: 852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Wow! That there even is such a business suggests that there is a market for the better audio of release versions and/or extended/director's cuts. Interesting,
Better audio really makes the experience much more immersive for me. But it could be because I like ghost stories. I haven't found that the better audio for action movies too compelling except for Abrams' Star Trek, Dredd and Gravity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
MakeMKV Question.
I've used MakeMKV from BDs before and never thought to do this:
http://www.makemkv.com/dtshd/
I tried that but without HDMI it didn't do me much good. So now I just rip the soundtrack as is in anticipation someday of getting an HDMI-capable and high-res-capable pre pro.
Kelson's Avatar Kelson
08:16 AM Liked: 513
post #7039 of 7183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post
I stopped using Clown, and now I only use MakeMKV. With MakeMKV I can have same PQ as BD, DTS-MA / TrueHD / Atmos and AC3. Clown takes too long to rip BD's. It used to be my ripper of choice, but now MakeMKV works much better. There has been a few BD's that MakeMKV couldn't rip. So, I used ClownBD and MKVMerge to create a MKV with chapters.
As far as the MKV container format is concerned, when I started ripping BD's 4yr ago I went with Clown_BD and native BD.m2ts containers because, at the time, MKV was still immature and one would read posts almost daily of people having problems with MKV files and their particular players -- that included the WDTV Live family which were my players. Since then MKV tools have greatly improved along with player compatibility so that it is not an issue and MKV is a fine universal container format. If starting to rip today, I would have no preference between BD.MKV or BD.m2ts. However, my library was established as BD.m2ts and has grown, so I have just stuck with the BD.m2ts format to keep things consistent.

I have played with MakeMKV and have it installed on my main workstation. All in all, I find the Clown interface much more to my liking for ripping BD's -- especially when it comes to handling forced subtitles. With Clown I can demux the sub streams and inspect them so I know exactly what I'm getting before I do the full rip. I don't have that option with MakeMKV. This is just my personal preference and the way I like to work with BD rips. I know others have their own preferences. As far as speed goes, well I'm down to ripping only a 1-2 BD's per month if I'm lucky so I prefer to savor the experience.

DVD's are a different matter -- I've come to appreciate MKV for DVD rips. I generally rip full DVD's to DVD.iso to get the full menus for TV series, but if I'm just ripping the main title of a DVD movie I've been using MakeMKV for that and am pretty happy with the DVD.MKV results. If I were to ever rip individual episodes of a TV series DVD, I would also use MakeMKV for that and use MKV files.

Same goes for HDTV captures. I like to collect select HDTV series recorded on my TiVo's. After transferring the captures to my PC and editing with VRD, I'll save them as MKV files for archiving on my server or burning to BD-R.
mrfattbill's Avatar mrfattbill
09:28 AM Liked: 64
post #7040 of 7183
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I personally use M2TS for movies and TV series stuff and I use MKV for concerts, where chapters are vastly more important. Containers were more important when I was using WDTV's exclusively but now HTPC's running XBMC/KODI are the king of my household so container is pretty irrelevant at this point.

Bill
pepar's Avatar pepar
11:29 AM Liked: 177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
Better audio really makes the experience much more immersive for me.
Sure, for me as well, and I'd bet most here, too. But to see signs that enough renters care about that to make it a viable business model is encouraging. On the other hand there are people who watch pirated movies made with a @#$%^ a camera held by someone sitting in a movie theater. That one continually stuns me.
artur9's Avatar artur9
11:51 AM Liked: 50
post #7042 of 7183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Sure, for me as well, and I'd bet most here, too. But to see signs that enough renters care about that to make it a viable business model is encouraging. On the other hand there are people who watch pirated movies made with a @#$%^ a camera held by someone sitting in a movie theater. That one continually stuns me.
I thought that was an urban legend spread by the studios? I thought most of the pirating was done by employees stealing final cuts?
pepar's Avatar pepar
12:35 PM Liked: 177
post #7043 of 7183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
I thought that was an urban legend spread by the studios? I thought most of the pirating was done by employees stealing final cuts?
Think "Asia" for the handheld camera pirated movies.
dbone1026's Avatar dbone1026
01:58 PM Liked: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Think "Asia" for the handheld camera pirated movies.
Ooohhh ... Asia Carrera did that as well
pepar's Avatar pepar
02:09 PM Liked: 177
post #7045 of 7183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post
Ooohhh ... Asia Carrera did that as well
You dawg you.
artur9's Avatar artur9
05:59 PM Liked: 50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post
Ooohhh ... Asia Carrera did that as well
I find these forums ceaselessly educational.
agogley's Avatar agogley
09:40 PM Liked: 21
post #7047 of 7183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
OK, I guess I got turned around here.

So for the problem title(s) that crashes eac3to, use TSMuxer to open the playlist of the title and select all the streams of that title (they are all selected by default). Set the TSMuxer output to "Blu-ray disk" and click go. TSMuxer will then extract the title with all its streams and join the seamless branching title into a single .m2ts file. The final output will be the BluRay BDMV folder structure and TSMuxer will have fixed any problems with the original .m2ts file that was crashing eac3to.

You can then run Clown_BD and open the BDMV folder that TSMuxer just created and process the video with Clown like you always did.



I really want to figure out why Clown_BD isn't working for these two movies. Obviously something is wrong and needs fixin. I can always go around and use something else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

It's not eac3to as I own both of those discs and did not have any problems. In fact, I don't think I've ever had any problems with any discs I've processed.

What is the command line you are using on this operation of eac?

I'm using Clown GUI. When that didn't work I tried in the Doom9 forum and they wrote the command line for me. It essentially did the same operation then when it gets to the end it says it can't open the file. I'm starting to suspect my BD drive mostly just as a process of elimination. I mean that is pretty much the last thing to check except for the question I'm about to ask you.


Can you tell me what playlist you used? I'm using 760. However, when I run Clown it asks me about Sony Screen pass and suggests using 0267 .mpls. I'm choosing no, but maybe I should choose yes?
DotJun's Avatar DotJun
02:58 AM Liked: 67
post #7048 of 7183
01-07-2015 | Posts: 1,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
I really want to figure out why Clown_BD isn't working for these two movies. Obviously something is wrong and needs fixin. I can always go around and use something else.




I'm using Clown GUI. When that didn't work I tried in the Doom9 forum and they wrote the command line for me. It essentially did the same operation then when it gets to the end it says it can't open the file. I'm starting to suspect my BD drive mostly just as a process of elimination. I mean that is pretty much the last thing to check except for the question I'm about to ask you.


Can you tell me what playlist you used? I'm using 760. However, when I run Clown it asks me about Sony Screen pass and suggests using 0267 .mpls. I'm choosing no, but maybe I should choose yes?

Divergent: 810
Stargate: I think there was only one option on that one?
pepar's Avatar pepar
05:43 AM Liked: 177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agogley View Post
I picked up Stargate in the bargain bin at BestBuy one day a while back and just got around to processing it. But for whatever reason I keep getting an error when using clown_BD. It says it can't open the DTS-Master Audio file. I'd paste the actual error but I deleted the logs...It gets to the end of the 3rd EAC pass then bugs out.
Which version of Stargate? I have two and might have some time to try ripping it before I escape the winter weather.

Jeff

What was the per movie giving you problems?

One other thing, if they are Sony movies, yes use Screen Pass' playlist recommendation!
agogley's Avatar agogley
06:10 AM Liked: 21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
Divergent: 810
Stargate: I think there was only one option on that one?

I don't get 810 as an option. I'm using a retail version that includes Blu-Ray + DVD + Digital.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Which version of Stargate? I have two and might have some time to try ripping it before I escape the winter weather.

Jeff

What was the per movie giving you problems?

One other thing, if they are Sony movies, yes use Screen Pass' playlist recommendation!

Stargate 15th Anniversary. It's that and Divergent that are giving me problems.
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