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post #7381 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by blackssr View Post
Are you giving me your resume? Not Impressed. My 16 year old nephew can do all of that. My network employees are all MCSE certified and have 20+ years experience as do I. Lets not compare brain power because you will lose. Just let it go and admit the file doesn't exist and I will back off. Post facts that are actual and not made up in your head.
Good for you. Just like my old man living in the past, and worse than a woman living in the past as always. Can't take it when you are wrong and someone else is right. I'll stop going out of topic because you can't let go of something that doesn't matter and doesn't help anyone! Reach down inside and let it go old man! Have a great weekend!
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post #7382 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post
Good for you. Just like my old man living in the past, and worse than a woman living in the past as always. Can't take it when you are wrong and someone else is right. I'll stop going out of topic because you can't let go of something that doesn't matter and doesn't help anyone! Reach down inside and let it go old man! Have a great weekend!
You are going to piss off quite a few members calling 51 old. . But I have been called worse. No worries on that front.

I noticed that you had some trouble with an Atmos Movie. I hope you do not mind if I quote you.

"So, I am trying to rip the new Transformers Age of Extinction movie, and MakeMKV cannot recognize the Atmos or TrueHD track. So, I can only rip with the DD track".

I hope you eventually figured out how to get the TrueHD/Atmos track off the Blu-ray. Surely an expert like yourself could have easily figured it out.
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post #7383 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 12:15 PM
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You girls understand that no one ever remembers who got the last word in an internet pissing match?

To the extent you are remembered at all it will because you were exceptionally helpful, or the opposite.

Silence is always a good response.

-Bill
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post #7384 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackssr View Post
You are going to piss off quite a few members calling 51 old. . But I have been called worse. No worries on that front.

I noticed that you had some trouble with an Atmos Movie. I hope you do not mind if I quote you.

"So, I am trying to rip the new Transformers Age of Extinction movie, and MakeMKV cannot recognize the Atmos or TrueHD track. So, I can only rip with the DD track".

I hope you eventually figured out how to get the TrueHD/Atmos track off the Blu-ray. Surely an expert like yourself could have easily figured it out.
Thanks for your concern. It's been solved.
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post #7385 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
You girls understand that no one ever remembers who got the last word in an internet pissing match?

To the extent you are remembered at all it will because you were exceptionally helpful, or the opposite.

Silence is always a good response.

-Bill
Just so you know I would make one ugly female.... even worse than Bruce Jenner.
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post #7386 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by blackssr View Post
Just so you know I would make one ugly female.... even worse than Bruce Jenner.
I don't know about that...I'm sure Bruce will be very popular when he goes to jail.

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post #7387 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackssr View Post
Are you giving me your resume? Not Impressed. My 16 year old nephew can do all of that. My network employees are all MCSE certified and have 20+ years experience as do I. Lets not compare brain power because you will lose. Just let it go and admit the file doesn't exist and I will back off. Post facts that are actual and not made up in your head.
He's not going to admit it, let it go.

However, let's just see what's possible -- according to wikipedia, the maximum audio bit rate that can be achieved (i.e. the biggest bitrate hog) would be DTS-HD MA at 24.5 mbit/sec. Given BD's maximum A/V combined bitrate of 48 Mbit/s, that doesn't leave much over for video. But, let's just presume we maxed out our audio with no respect to video quality and compressed the video as much as possible to keep the entire movie at 48 Mbit/s. This gives us about 2.3 hours of encoding at that rate on a 50 GB disc. So, 2.3 hours @ 24.5 mbit/sec audio is about 25.3 GB of audio data. So, it's not impossible for 10 GB to exist on a disc. Now, whether anyone has bothered to do that...who knows.

That said, I'd venture if he found 10 GB it was probably a disc that used a 24/192 six-channel track. Maybe a concert disc? Most don't seem to go above 24/48 with eight channels, which would require much less bandwidth.
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post #7388 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
He's not going to admit it, let it go.

However, let's just see what's possible -- according to wikipedia, the maximum audio bit rate that can be achieved (i.e. the biggest bitrate hog) would be DTS-HD MA at 24.5 mbit/sec. Given BD's maximum A/V combined bitrate of 48 Mbit/s, that doesn't leave much over for video. But, let's just presume we maxed out our audio with no respect to video quality and compressed the video as much as possible to keep the entire movie at 48 Mbit/s. This gives us about 2.3 hours of encoding at that rate on a 50 GB disc. So, 2.3 hours @ 24.5 mbit/sec audio is about 25.3 GB of audio data. So, it's not impossible for 10 GB to exist on a disc. Now, whether anyone has bothered to do that...who knows.

That said, I'd venture if he found 10 GB it was probably a disc that used a 24/192 six-channel track. Maybe a concert disc? Most don't seem to go above 24/48 with eight channels, which would require much less bandwidth.
I hear you, being an Engineer with a masters in electrical, I like facts and feel numbers do not lie. He made a general statement about HD audio tracks being over 10 Gb on Blu-rays not about a specific disc or movie or concert. That is incorrect and without substance to back it up. His defiance to admit fault is based on lack of knowledge, immaturity or both. Either way his statement holds no merit. I tried to correct him on it but he refused to admit that he has no data or the credentials to back up such an obvious erroneous statement. Life goes on and I have Dinner plans with my next ex-wife!

Last edited by blackssr; 02-13-2015 at 01:22 PM.
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post #7389 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackssr View Post
I hear you, being an Engineer with a masters in electrical, I like facts and feel numbers do not lie. He made a general statement about HD audio tracks being over 10 Gb on Blu-rays not about a specific disc or movie or concert. That is incorrect and without substance to back it up. His defiance to admit fault is based on lack of knowledge, immaturity or both. Either way his statement holds no merit. I tried to correct him on it but he refused to admit that he has no data or the credentials to back up such an obvious erroneous statement. Life goes on and I have Dinner plans with my next ex-wife!
I was trying to be nicer, but his subsequent actions also give me the feeling that he got caught in hyperbole and won't say so.

Anyway, here you are having dinner plans with a future ex and I haven't even made them for my current wife and myself, lol. If I don't hop to it, I may be looking for a new one !
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post #7390 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
I was trying to be nicer, but his subsequent actions also give me the feeling that he got caught in hyperbole and won't say so.

Anyway, here you are having dinner plans with a future ex and I haven't even made them for my current wife and myself, lol. If I don't hop to it, I may be looking for a new one !
Heading to Capital Grill for a Dry Aged Porterhouse Steak and bottle of fine wine. Enjoy your night out. I have 7:00 pm reservations.

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post #7391 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
He's not going to admit it, let it go.

However, let's just see what's possible -- according to wikipedia, the maximum audio bit rate that can be achieved (i.e. the biggest bitrate hog) would be DTS-HD MA at 24.5 mbit/sec. Given BD's maximum A/V combined bitrate of 48 Mbit/s, that doesn't leave much over for video. But, let's just presume we maxed out our audio with no respect to video quality and compressed the video as much as possible to keep the entire movie at 48 Mbit/s. This gives us about 2.3 hours of encoding at that rate on a 50 GB disc. So, 2.3 hours @ 24.5 mbit/sec audio is about 25.3 GB of audio data. So, it's not impossible for 10 GB to exist on a disc. Now, whether anyone has bothered to do that...who knows.

That said, I'd venture if he found 10 GB it was probably a disc that used a 24/192 six-channel track. Maybe a concert disc? Most don't seem to go above 24/48 with eight channels, which would require much less bandwidth.
I'll need to check my Akira BD. That has a six channel 24/192 track. And I have a couple of Chris Botti BDs that have 24/96 six channel tracks I can look at.

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post #7392 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 02:20 PM
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I just checked the BD stats page and it shows that Akira has an average audio bitrate of 14.34 mbps(the video bitrate is 19.583 mbps) with the 5.1 Dolby True HD track.

The movie is just over 2 hours long. So if this bitrate calculator is correct that I used(and the average bitrate is actually 14.34Mbps), the movie should have an audio file size close to 13GB.

I'll need to check out the actual size sometime this weekend at home if I remember.

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post #7393 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
the movie should have an audio file size close to 13GB.
No doubt the apologies will be forthcoming.
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post #7394 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 02:34 PM
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I still need to check for the actual size. I just used the info from http://www.blu-raystats.com I don't know if it's actually correct.

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post #7395 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 02:36 PM
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better be wrong by a LOT to not be over 10Gb.
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post #7396 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 02:54 PM
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We'll have our answer when he doesn't check back into the forum for a few days. The taste of crow doesn't leave your mouth for a few days even if no one can prove you ate it.
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post #7397 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 03:14 PM
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Please look for the last post that I posted for you to try, then get back to me with the results as the curiosity is killing me [emoji1]

Too bad I couldn't grab those files off you for testing purposes.
@JRock3x8 , my bad, I thought you had ripped only certain streams but it looks like you loaded all of them. You have every stream from the original file in your mkv so you are good on that front I suppose. What was the problem again?
finally got back to this, oh so frustrating.

so I tried ripping the blu ray instead of the mkv (installed anydvd hd first - does that even matter?)

found the right title and dragged it into tsmuxer, found the right start and finish markers, set to cut and start muxing.

Result file always stops at 95% forcing me to guess where to put the stop marker so that I actually get the end clip that I want.

like I said really frustrating.



edit : and now I feel incredibly stupid - my computer won't play the audio from the files but the WDTV plays it just fine. Not sure why my computer can't decode the dts audio...

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post #7398 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
You girls understand that no one ever remembers who got the last word in an internet pissing match?

To the extent you are remembered at all it will because you were exceptionally helpful, or the opposite.

Silence is always a good response.

-Bill
How about you post your posts and they will post theirs?

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post #7399 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 04:44 PM
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So I used BD info on my Akira 25th anniversary disc. It shows the 5.1, 192khz Japanese track(it's 16 bit, not 24 bit) at an average of only 9.841Mb/s. So I'm not sure if the original Akira Disc has a higher bitrate of if the BD stats page is just wrong. But if the BD info is correct then that would be below a 10GB file wouldn't it? For a 2 hour 4 minute movie.

What would I use to create an actual file of just the audio?

EDIT: I see the info on the BD info stats page. The japanese audio file would be 9.184 GB. So it is under 10GB for my Akira 25th anniversary disc for the movie only.

But if you took the English 5.1 96khz track at 2.33GB and the English 2.0 96 khz track at 1.4GB, I guess that would get you over 10GB.

Either way though that would be a big file just for the audio.

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Last edited by aaronwt; 02-13-2015 at 04:50 PM.
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post #7400 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 05:41 PM
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What would I use to create an actual file of just the audio?
You could use TSMuxer to demux the individual audio tracks. Then you could see the filesize of the track(s) of interest.

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post #7401 of 7839 Old 02-13-2015, 07:08 PM
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If you switch to tree mode in media info it shows what percentage of the file size is video so figuring the audio portion is easy enough it seems.

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post #7402 of 7839 Old 02-14-2015, 12:12 AM
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I was quite curious myself on the 10GB claim as I never paid attention or gave any thought to the audio track/file size. Browsing over all my BD rips (which I own the discs) I found my largest concerning audio file size are...

Pirates Of The Caribbean: At World's End
Length: 2:48
Audio bitrate: 6912 kbps
LPCM 5.1 24bit 48Khz
Audio file size: 8.14GB

Chris Botti Live With Orchestra And Special Guests
Length: 1:29
Audio bitrate: 13824 kbps
LPCM 5.1 24bit 96kHz
Audio file size: 8.60GB
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post #7403 of 7839 Old 02-14-2015, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post
If you switch to tree mode in media info it shows what percentage of the file size is video so figuring the audio portion is easy enough it seems.
Mmh, not on DTS, I see this only with AC3 tracks (Mediainfo 0.7.72)?

The German DTS-MA track of my LOTR 3 EE rip clocks at 5 GB (the whole movie being 75 GB).

Code:
Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : DTS
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Format profile                           : MA / Core
Mode                                     : 16
Format settings, Endianness              : Big
Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
Duration                                 : 4h 23mn
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : Unknown / 1 509 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 7 channels / 6 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L C R, Side: L R, Back: C, LFE / Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth                                : 16 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossless / Lossy
Title                                    : de DTS-MA
Language                                 : German
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
So why is the MA bitrate unknown?

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post #7404 of 7839 Old 02-14-2015, 05:00 AM
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Further Testing to back up my statements

The heated debate/discussion that took place was with regard to DTS-HD MA and TrueHD tracks in Blu-rays and their average sizes when left unmolested. A general statement was made that I felt was not correct. I must admit that I never even thought about LPCM tracks found on early Blu-Rays. These were in fact quite large, however this was not what the heated discussion was about. In recent years DTS-HD MA and TrueHD have become the norm.

I had to really think about what titles actually had LPCM tracks as opposed to a DTS-HD MA or True HD track.
Pearl Harbor, Black Hawk Down, Rocky Balboa and Bruce Springsteen London Calling come to mind and their respective sizes are as follows: (These titles were de-muxed using the latest version of tsMuxer). I am sure that are quite a few more titles and other veteran rippers will chime in on the quest to find “Nessie”. (A 10GB or larger DTS HD MA or TrueHD track)
Pearl Harbor – 8.84 GB - ~3 hours - ~2.94 GB/hr
Black Hawk Down – 4.46 GB- ~ 2 hours 30 minutes - ~1.78 GB/hr
Rocky Balboa – 3.72 GB- ~ 1 hour 41 minutes - ~2.24 GB/hr
Bruce Springsteen – London Calling - 8.33 GB - ~2 hours 52 minutes- 2.91 GB/hr

I also de-muxed the Godfather which has a TrueHD track and is nearly 3 hours in length as is Pearl Harbor and Guardians of the Galaxy 3D which has a DTS HD-MA Track to show a brief comparison of size between LPCM, TrueHD and DTS HD MA.
Godfather – 5.1 GB -~ 3 hours- ~ 1.7 GB/hr
Guardians of the Galaxy 3D – 3.89 GB ~2 hours 30 minutes- ~1.55 GB/hr

It seems that the average size per hour is as follows:
LPCM tracks: ~1.80-3.0 GB per hour.
True HD tracks: ~1.5 -1.7 GB per hour.
DTS HD MA tracks: ~ 1.5 – 1.7 GB per hour.

Most movies are approximately 1.5 to 2 hours in length. Based on this, the average size of a DTSHD MA or TrueHD track can range between 2.25- 3.4 GB. Give or take a few %. This is based on the few movies that I de-muxed this morning to get an idea of what I believe to be correct and accurate information. A LPCM track can be nearly double or even triple the size of a True HD or DTSHD-MA track.

For those with Atmos Setups:

John Wick- ~1 hour 40 minutes - 4.13 GB- ~2.36 GB/hr
Transformers 4- ~2 hours 45 minutes- 5.79 GB - ~2.10 GB/hr
TNMTs- ~ 1 hour 40 minutes - 4.37 GB- ~2.49 GB/hr
Expendables 3- ~2 hours 11 minutes - ~5.34 GB- ~ 2.44 Gb/hr

It seems that Atmos tracks are about 25-30% larger on average than TrueHD tracks.

Last edited by blackssr; 02-14-2015 at 08:50 AM.
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post #7405 of 7839 Old 02-14-2015, 06:38 AM
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My Akira Disc uses Dolby TrueHD for the 192Khz and 96Khz tracks. No idea why the audio size is so large though. It's not even 24 bit. It's still 16 bit. AT least that is what the BDinfo program showed.

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post #7406 of 7839 Old 02-14-2015, 06:38 PM
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Ripping Blu-Rays II

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr266 View Post
So 4gb...ok, I looked at the few BD's I have for TV shows and it looks like they are averaging about twice that. So my questions is, what is you opinion of the viewing quality of those compressed shows. Would you say they are still better than an up-scaled version of a reg dvd but not as good as an uncompressed BD? I'm watching them on a 70in TV so I'm curious what quality drop, if any, I would see.
I posted a trio of pics a few pages back. Go view them on your TV and see if you can tell a difference. Now, those are just stills mind you. It looks a lot better when viewed in motion, as you are meant to see it.

I myself prefer to re-encode a high resolution source vs upscaling a low resolution source. Not only because it should produce a better picture, but I also think I could come up with better encoding parameters than the upscaling algorithm being used as a template for every source type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post
You can re-encode a BD file between 15 to 32 GB to about 4GB and still have good picture quality. However, I would suggest only doing DTS or DD 5.1 sound rather than doing HD sound since a DTSMA or TrueHD sound track can be over 10GB.



You'll start noticing degrading PQ with bigger HDTV's. I used to worried about space when I started ripping my movies / tv shows. Thereafter, I did some research and ended up building an UnRaid server. At the moment I've got 15 TB, and I will be adding 3 TB more since I'm running out of space. BD movies with HD sound tracks take some space.
You shouldn't give a final file size due to differing source material. Things like darkness level, motion level, grain level and noise level are just a few things that will affect final file size if all other things are equal.

The closest HD audio, non LPCM I've ever seen at that size are the extended editions of LotR's.

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Originally Posted by mr266 View Post
And that's my question. Just how good is good quality? Obviously it's no longer BD quality, but how much better than up-scaled dvd quality is it? Going through all my ripped TV shows just now, it really depends on how the darn show was filmed. A show like Haven looks quite a bit softer than it's BD counterpart, but a show like Lost is downright sharp on the reg dvd version. I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between reg and BD so why purchase a BD of it and compress it? Not trying to be argumentative here, just curious what everyone thinks about this.
Because you can always do a lot more, when talking about recompression, when you are cutting vs adding. Taking bits away is so much simpler than adding "phantom" bits.

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Originally Posted by Lost Dog View Post
You may want to avoid a 3 TB drive if possible. The Backblaze hard drive report showed an abnormally high failure rate of 3 TB drives as opposed to other sizes:

https://www.backblaze.com/blog/best-hard-drive/
I've been running 3tb Reds 24/7 since they've come out.

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Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post
I highly doubt that. Not for ripping. However, Home Theater equipment then I do agree. I've got a lot to learn for that.
Do you know what the effects are when tweaking --keyint, VBV, --aq, --dct-decimate, or any number of x264 options do to a non-grainy dark source? How about to a lightly colored static source? If the answer is no to any of these, then you shouldn't make statements like that because people reading your posts will be more apt to believe what you post even if it isn't true.
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post #7407 of 7839 Old 02-14-2015, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I'll need to check my Akira BD. That has a six channel 24/192 track. And I have a couple of Chris Botti BDs that have 24/96 six channel tracks I can look at.
I could have done that for you real quick if I had noticed this...

192kHz TrueHD track demuxed: 12.4GB
192kHz TrueHD track converted to FLAC: 12.1GB
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post #7408 of 7839 Old 02-14-2015, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
I could have done that for you real quick if I had noticed this...

192kHz TrueHD track demuxed: 12.4GB
192kHz TrueHD track converted to FLAC: 12.1GB
The BD info program showed that it was under 10GB for just the Japanese Dolby True HD track for just the movie. But if the two English True HD tracks are added then the total audio file size goes over 12GB for the movie.

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post #7409 of 7839 Old 02-14-2015, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
The BD info program showed that it was under 10GB for just the Japanese Dolby True HD track for just the movie. But if the two English True HD tracks are added then the total audio file size goes over 12GB for the movie.
This is the for the JAP audio track. I would bitch slap anyone that listens to that horrible translated ENG track.
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post #7410 of 7839 Old 02-15-2015, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
This is the for the JAP audio track. I would bitch slap anyone that listens to that horrible translated ENG track.
SO is there a difference between the 25th Anniversary and the original maybe? I was going by the information that the BDinfo program showed me. So I'm wondering if the BDinfo program does not give the proper sizes?

I used to have a copy of the original BD release but I misplaced it so I purchased the 25th Anniversary version to replace it last year.

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