Ripping Blu-Rays II - Page 267 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
Reply
Thread Tools
post #7981 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 12:26 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 11,406
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1139 Post(s)
Liked: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
New Dune's still BD licensed?
Not beyond Smart series.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #7982 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 12:34 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 11,406
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1139 Post(s)
Liked: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnBlanker View Post
Playlist obfuscation was solved for me for a short time, thanks to this guy's method. Recently, Powerdvd is refusing to play most of my Cinavia discs. Blackcell mentioned using Potplayer, but I don't have Anydvd.
Cinavia compliance was the price of a BDA license that killed full menu support in media players.

Blackssr's mother makes it a hobby to ferret out the correct playlist for obfuscated titles, especially Lions Gate. He then usually posts the playlist here.

I have Potplayer which I use to play some DVD rips that VLC has trouble with -- always it is some rip that DVD Fab has screwed up. I'm not aware that it plays full BD menus. I know it does not play .iso files.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #7983 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 12:48 PM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: On the beach in Quintana Roo
Posts: 25,427
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 348 Post(s)
Liked: 203
Mounted it will play ISO, but you need to manually point it to an MPLS and manually select the audio track.
pepar is offline  
post #7984 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 01:13 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 11,406
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1139 Post(s)
Liked: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Mounted it will play ISO . . .
Yeah, that's cheating.
I was thinking in terms of native support for .iso like VLC has for DVD.iso.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #7985 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 01:26 PM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: On the beach in Quintana Roo
Posts: 25,427
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 348 Post(s)
Liked: 203
Fair enough. It's a Blu-Ray disc at that point and no longer a ISO.
pepar is offline  
post #7986 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 03:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fatherom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Boston area, MA
Posts: 1,015
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Liked: 36
I have two Dune HD Base 3.0s, a Dune Smart, an Oppo BDP-93 and an Oppo 103D. All can play BD ISOs. The Oppos can play 3D ISOs and the 103D can do it all over the network. I rip everything to straight ISO and it's soooo easy. Don't have to worry about playlists or transcoding or converting or anything. I love it and will use these devices until they no longer function.


Epson 5020UB (won on AVSForum!) on Elite Sable 16:9 100", Oppo BDP-83 / 93 (ISO firmware) / 103D, Dune HD Base 3.0, Darblet, Sony MDR-DS7500 Wireless Surround Headphones & Onkyo TX-SR707
fatherom is offline  
post #7987 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 03:49 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 23,465
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1770 Post(s)
Liked: 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
That's fine and dandy for people that are still using one of those legacy Dune or PCH players that support BD menus -- or a licensed software player on a HTPC. But for the rest of us using the current crop of players, that is guaranteed to not work for a good fraction of disks.
I have several newer media players as well as a couple of older ones that have full BD menu playback. I have no problem using BD ISO with my new media players(with BD lite) for the vast majority of titles. There are only a small amount of titles that have caused me any issues with my BD lite players. And for those I use MakeMKV and create an MKV of just the movie.

53TB unRAID2--38TB unRAID3--33TB unRAID1a
LED DLP
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline  
post #7988 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 05:12 PM
Advanced Member
 
johnBlanker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 790
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
What are you using to break encryption in order to rip?
dvdfab. Grandfathered in.

Last edited by johnBlanker; 07-14-2015 at 05:18 PM.
johnBlanker is offline  
post #7989 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 05:13 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 11,406
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1139 Post(s)
Liked: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I have several newer media players . . . that have full BD menu playback.
Which ones?

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #7990 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 05:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
johnBlanker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 790
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I have several newer media players as well as a couple of older ones that have full BD menu playback. I have no problem using BD ISO with my new media players(with BD lite) for the vast majority of titles. There are only a small amount of titles that have caused me any issues with my BD lite players. And for those I use MakeMKV and create an MKV of just the movie.
I recently discovered the Dune Smart players will not play all BD menu on some movies. When you hit play it goes to a never-ending black screen. For these titles the bd-lite option works fine. I really only use full-bd for discs with playlist obfuscation, and that's if I'm too lazy to use the method I described above.
johnBlanker is offline  
post #7991 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 05:19 PM
Advanced Member
 
johnBlanker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 790
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I have several newer media players as well as a couple of older ones that have full BD menu playback.
This can't be even a little bit true
johnBlanker is offline  
post #7992 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 05:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jon S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Sunny Hawaii
Posts: 3,134
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Liked: 127
Just a note, Lionsgate has put a pretty crafty scheme to impede copy protection. You can see this when you scan the movie "John Wick" in MakeMKV. After scanning, the program lists about 300 (yes, 300) versions of the title film, all showing the same number of chapters and file size.


You cannot just select one and make your MKV file. The movie itself is divided into multiple streams (about two dozen) and each playback file rearranges the files stream in a different order. When you play back the MKV file, the movie will jump from one scene to another in a haphazard order. You have to find the correct file with the correct order of streams in order to watch the movie correctly.


I know that some of their other BR releases have implemented this schema (can't remember which ones though).

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
Jon S is offline  
post #7993 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 05:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
johnBlanker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 790
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
Just a note, Lionsgate has put a pretty crafty scheme to impede copy protection. You can see this when you scan the movie "John Wick" in MakeMKV. After scanning, the program lists about 300 (yes, 300) versions of the title film, all showing the same number of chapters and file size.


You cannot just select one and make your MKV file. The movie itself is divided into multiple streams (about two dozen) and each playback file rearranges the files stream in a different order. When you play back the MKV file, the movie will jump from one scene to another in a haphazard order. You have to find the correct file with the correct order of streams in order to watch the movie correctly.


I know that some of their other BR releases have implemented this schema (can't remember which ones though).
This is called playlist obfuscation. It's all over this forum. Players that read JAVA have no problems with this. Other have to search the web for the correct playlist (and this differs for different versions, ie Redbox vs retail), or wait for people to post the correct playlist o this forum, or use the method I described above, compliments on Blackcell.
johnBlanker is offline  
post #7994 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 05:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jon S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Sunny Hawaii
Posts: 3,134
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Liked: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnBlanker View Post
This is called playlist obfuscation. It's all over this forum.
Any ideas which movies have this issue?

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
Jon S is offline  
post #7995 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 05:36 PM
Senior Member
 
mecmec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatherom View Post
I have two Dune HD Base 3.0s, a Dune Smart, an Oppo BDP-93 and an Oppo 103D. All can play BD ISOs. The Oppos can play 3D ISOs and the 103D can do it all over the network. I rip everything to straight ISO and it's soooo easy. Don't have to worry about playlists or transcoding or converting or anything. I love it and will use these devices until they no longer function.
Yep. Had a 93 with iso forever and once the 103D could be modified I sold those off and now use just the 103d. Got good money for the 93 and dunes I sold off too! Can't beat the simplicity of iso....
mecmec is offline  
post #7996 of 8010 Old 07-14-2015, 06:29 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 11,406
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1139 Post(s)
Liked: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
Just a note, Lionsgate has put a pretty crafty scheme to impede copy protection. You can see this when you scan the movie "John Wick" in MakeMKV. After scanning, the program lists about 300 (yes, 300) versions of the title film, all showing the same number of chapters and file size.
On top of that, Lions Gate strips out the HD audio track for rental BD's leaving only DD.

It gets worse -- the last Lions Gate title I compared (can't remember the name) not only stripped out the HD audio but also substantially lowered the bitrate of the rental vs. the retail version.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #7997 of 8010 Old 07-15-2015, 05:26 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 11,406
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1139 Post(s)
Liked: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnBlanker View Post
Playlist obfuscation was solved for me for a short time, thanks to this guy's method. Recently, Powerdvd is refusing to play most of my Cinavia discs. Blackcell mentioned using Potplayer, but I don't have Anydvd.
Could you check your link on this? When I click it it takes me to my post #7901 which has nothing to do with what you are discussing.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #7998 of 8010 Old 07-15-2015, 05:33 AM
One-Man Content Creator
 
wmcclain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 18,709
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1194 Post(s)
Liked: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Could you check your link on this? When I click it it takes me to my post #7901 which has nothing to do with what you are discussing.
The permalinks of the forum have a bug: the links include a page number, but people have different posts-per-page set, giving different page numbering.

The actual post is here.

-Bill

Review older films here: 1979 and earlier | 1980s | 1990s | Combined reviews: Strange Picture Scroll
Unofficial OPPO FAQS: BDP-103 | BDP-93 | BDP-83 | BDP-80    
wmcclain is online now  
post #7999 of 8010 Old 07-15-2015, 08:11 AM
Advanced Member
 
johnBlanker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 790
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
Any ideas which movies have this issue?
It's hard to say. Lions Gate films for sure. I have had this experience with one of the Harry Potter films, RED 2, it's just hit or miss. But it's not just playlist obfuscation, it's also movies with alternate endings (I am Legend), unrated editions (Knocked up), directors cuts (Terminator), etc. It's sometimes hard to get what you want just by looking at the playlists. So, the powerdvd method for choosing the correct playlist helps with all of this. 100% fool proof. Unless Cinavia cripples powerdvd. And if this is the case: full disc rip for my Dune.
johnBlanker is offline  
post #8000 of 8010 Old 07-15-2015, 08:19 AM
Advanced Member
 
johnBlanker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 790
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
On top of that, Lions Gate strips out the HD audio track for rental BD's leaving only DD.

It gets worse -- the last Lions Gate title I compared (can't remember the name) not only stripped out the HD audio but also substantially lowered the bitrate of the rental vs. the retail version.
It's a sin. A crime really. Red/Flix should have really put their foot down when all these negotiations took place and all that "waiting" nonsense should never have happened.

But, I look at it like this: If the rental blew me away, I'll go out and buy the movie. Rarely do I get blown away by movies lately. I'm always tempted to put my Game of Thrones collection on my network. But I have HBO GO in every room. So I choose the significantly lower bit-rate AND demoted audio for the hassle-free convenience and not clogging up my drive capacity with 40 episodes of the show. just my 2¢

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Could you check your link on this? When I click it it takes me to my post #7901 which has nothing to do with what you are discussing.
woops. we had this problem before. Ok, I'll post the url next time.
johnBlanker is offline  
post #8001 of 8010 Old 07-15-2015, 02:16 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 23,465
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1770 Post(s)
Liked: 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Which ones?
I have a couple of Popcorn Hour A400's and a Poprcorn Hour VTEN

EDIT: I guess I didn't word that right in the post. It is well known than the newer media players don't have full BD menu playback. I have an old PCH C200 and a Netgear NTV550 for full BD menu playback. Then with BD lite playback I have the A400's and VTEN. I rarely use the C200 or Netgear. I mainly use the A400's and VTEN.

53TB unRAID2--38TB unRAID3--33TB unRAID1a
LED DLP
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline  
post #8002 of 8010 Old 07-15-2015, 02:22 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 23,465
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1770 Post(s)
Liked: 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
Just a note, Lionsgate has put a pretty crafty scheme to impede copy protection. You can see this when you scan the movie "John Wick" in MakeMKV. After scanning, the program lists about 300 (yes, 300) versions of the title film, all showing the same number of chapters and file size.


You cannot just select one and make your MKV file. The movie itself is divided into multiple streams (about two dozen) and each playback file rearranges the files stream in a different order. When you play back the MKV file, the movie will jump from one scene to another in a haphazard order. You have to find the correct file with the correct order of streams in order to watch the movie correctly.


I know that some of their other BR releases have implemented this schema (can't remember which ones though).
Lionsgate has been doing this awhile. I just go to the Any DVD forums and they will have the correcet playlist to choose. Then I just select that in MakeMKV.

This accounts for only a very tiny minority of titles.(a fraction of a percent) And not even all the Lionsgate titles do this.

Once Any DVD has a new update, it will show the correct play list to choose. But prior to that I need to find out the info from the forums

53TB unRAID2--38TB unRAID3--33TB unRAID1a
LED DLP
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline  
post #8003 of 8010 Old 07-16-2015, 12:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
techflaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Otherwise you open the title in Clown_BD or MakeMKV, pick your HD video & audio streams and click "go".
Unfortunately BD authoring rules don't require designating audio streams 'director's comment', 'SDH' or whatever. Of course simplyfying/automating ripping wasn't top of the list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Why isn't some code wiz able to write an app that will analyze the Java and spit out the file names the BD plays when the "play" button is pressed? The info is ALL on the d#%m disc.
BD2AVCHD apparently has some logic implemented that properly identifies forced subs that are not flagged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
Just a note, Lionsgate has put a pretty crafty scheme to impede copy protection.
And still all they're movies end up being ripped. Those idiots just don't learn.

Tech Flaws
Things can only get better
techflaws is offline  
post #8004 of 8010 Old Yesterday, 07:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Chere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,278
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 323 Post(s)
Liked: 172
Any one else observe MakeMKV is now giving a few days notice to renew instead of the usual 30 days? A sign that it might be coming out of beta and into a fully paid version soon maybe?
Chere is offline  
post #8005 of 8010 Old Yesterday, 11:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
techflaws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Well, the software appears mature as can be.

Tech Flaws
Things can only get better
techflaws is offline  
post #8006 of 8010 Old Today, 03:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
DotJun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,324
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 364 Post(s)
Liked: 93
Anyone know a good .vob to .iso converter?
DotJun is offline  
post #8007 of 8010 Old Today, 05:36 AM
One-Man Content Creator
 
wmcclain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 18,709
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1194 Post(s)
Liked: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
Anyone know a good .vob to .iso converter?
Would this be VIDEO_TS directory structures? Standard .iso creation utilities should work, with the caution that there should be a special "dvd-video" option to position certain files correctly.

On linux, the standard "mkisofs" utility has this. Else check the help on utilities you have now, or search the conversion utilities at videohelp.com.

-Bill

Review older films here: 1979 and earlier | 1980s | 1990s | Combined reviews: Strange Picture Scroll
Unofficial OPPO FAQS: BDP-103 | BDP-93 | BDP-83 | BDP-80    
wmcclain is online now  
post #8008 of 8010 Old Today, 10:49 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 11,406
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1139 Post(s)
Liked: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
Anyone know a good .vob to .iso converter?
DVD Shrink
olyteddy likes this.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #8009 of 8010 Unread Today, 05:35 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 23,465
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1770 Post(s)
Liked: 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chere View Post
Any one else observe MakeMKV is now giving a few days notice to renew instead of the usual 30 days? A sign that it might be coming out of beta and into a fully paid version soon maybe?
I don't even recall getting a notice. If it doesn't work I just go to the site to get another key. On this machine I installed MakeMKV last weekend. It shows I still have 36 days left.

53TB unRAID2--38TB unRAID3--33TB unRAID1a
LED DLP
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline  
post #8010 of 8010 Unread Today, 08:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
artur9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: near philly
Posts: 1,152
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post
I don't even recall getting a notice. If it doesn't work I just go to the site to get another key. On this machine I installed MakeMKV last weekend. It shows I still have 36 days left.
I just had to get a license twice over the last few days (since Fri?). The new license expires in September.

I have notice that the 1.9.x versions are much much flakier than the 1.8.x versions. The UI stops updating despite the rest of the app continuing to function.
artur9 is online now  
Reply Networking, Media Servers & Content Streaming

Tags
3d blu-ray , blu ray , copier , Dune Hd Smart B1 1080p Media Player , home cinema , ripper
Gear in this thread - blu by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off