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Old 12-15-2015, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainbrent View Post
Thanks for that! Are the 5 TB Toshiba's considered to be better than the 5 TB Seagate Barracuda's? I see that the Toshiba's are spinning at 7200 rpm's whereas the Seagate's are 5900 rpm's.

Cheers
I only have about 24 units in the wild. 3 servers. Two are running over 8 months now and no failures. I choose them due to being 7200 RPM and priced right. With Raid 6, I am not too worried about failures. I have the Raid cards set to email me in the event of failure or trouble.

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Old 12-15-2015, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mr266 View Post
I agree, but have found on my largest files that some of the bitrates are causing stuttering. Now, I know some people don't have this problem with the same movies, but for the way things work best for my setup, it works well to compress the largest ones which lowers the bitrate as well. For me, I chose 20gb and above to compress (and when I say compress I don't compress as much as some) and quite frankly the quality is not noticeably different. Anyone that thinks it's more like DVD quality hasn't really played around with it much. In all honesty, I probably could just compress the 30gb's and above, but I was interested in playing around with handbrake and went a little nuts. LOL
Check you network. Even the highest bit rate 3D movie with Atmos should not saturate a 10/100 network and definitely will have no effect on a healthy GB lan. In my home, as well as several clients,we are are able to stream to 3 Dunes simultaneously without stutter, all from a central Windows based server. If in doubt or not confident in your ability, have a professional network guy in your area test your lan speeds and server abilities. It will be money well spent. If running wireless, have cables dropped. Drops should cost about $125/per. Wireless is not the way to go for full bit rate BD streaming and definitely not for 4K streaming in the future.

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Old 12-15-2015, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Wryker View Post
Is there a way MakeMKV will output the file as .ts? I didn't see such an option.
Yes, File > backup. This will rip the entire disk into a folder on your HDD though, but you still get the m2ts(s) unencrypted.

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Old 12-16-2015, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by blackssr View Post
Check you network. Even the highest bit rate 3D movie with Atmos should not saturate a 10/100 network and definitely will have no effect on a healthy GB lan. In my home, as well as several clients,we are are able to stream to 3 Dunes simultaneously without stutter, all from a central Windows based server. If in doubt or not confident in your ability, have a professional network guy in your area test your lan speeds and server abilities. It will be money well spent. If running wireless, have cables dropped. Drops should cost about $125/per. Wireless is not the way to go for full bit rate BD streaming and definitely not for 4K streaming in the future.
My network is fine. I can actually stream from the NAS, through powerlines (both attached to the same gigabit switch) over to my computer in another room without any stutter (the larger non-compressed files). The problem is that the only way to have the file structure show up the way I want it on my WDTV SMP (I'm running a 3rd party os on it) I have to use an NFS share, and for some reason the problem lies there. Once the WDTV's die out, I'll go with a Chromebox w/Kodi, or something similar, which should take care of that problem. For now though, this seems to be a fine solution.

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Old 12-16-2015, 07:33 AM
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It is not recommended that you a desktop drive in a NAS. The error correction protocols in a desktop drive will give you issues which will result in RAID rebuilds more often than with NAS drives (see below). Higher RPM drives run hotter and have higher vibration. Also the way the park the heads after a time period causes the drive to wear out faster.

IIRC, According to BackBlaze.com, an online storage site that uses 44,000 HDD, Seagate has a 40% fail rate, followed by WD (10%) , Toshiba (7%) and finally HGSTAR which is under 1%.

The below is from a web site that reviews NAS drives.

I’ve had a number of readers ask me why their RAID arrays in their brand new NAS units keep degrading and almost every time, it’s because they’re using either WD Green hard drives, WD Blue hard drives, or Seagate Barracudas. If this happens to you, it’s not the NAS units that are at fault. Don’t return them or RMA them. It’s probably the drives.

Let me explain…

Here’s a simple scenario that may or may not have happened to you.
You’re running a file transfer to your NAS and the power goes out in your house. Oops! Should’ve bought a UPS! You go out and buy a UPS. In the meantime…
You turn the NAS back on once power is restored and you initiate a rebuild. No big deal.
In the power outage, one of your drives developed a bad sector. That’s pretty normal.
You read the file with the bad sector and the drive realizes that it can’t read the sector.
In a typical desktop scenario, drives can take up to 20+ seconds to attempt a recovery of the bad sector. In a RAID array, RAID controllers only allow the drive around 7 seconds. After 7 seconds, the perfectly good consumer drive gets dropped out of the RAID array. You get a message that says the “RAID array has degraded”. Crud.
You insert a fresh hard drive and initiate a RAID rebuild. No big deal.
Another drive in the RAID array realizes it’s got a bad block. Crud.
Game over. Your RAID 5 array is screwed. Good luck getting your files back in any sort of timely matter. If at all.
This happens. It’ll sometimes happen randomly. It’ll sometimes happen when it’s been physically abused it in some way. It happens with Synology, Thecus, QNAP, and every other brand of NAS I’ve tested. It may not happen in a day or a week, but it always does happen.

So now that I’ve struck fear into your hearts and your souls, you may ask “What do I need to do to protect myself from this situation?”. The answer is you need a hard drive with error recovery controls feature. Had you have purchased a drive that has error recovery controls for your NAS, this is the scenario that would occur instead.

You’re running a file transfer to your NAS and the power goes out in your house. Oops! Should’ve bought a UPS! You go out and buy a UPS. In the meantime…
You turn the NAS back on once power is restored and you initiate a rebuild. No big deal.
In the power outage, one of your drives developed a bad sector. That’s pretty normal.
You read the file with the bad sector and the drive realizes that it can’t read the sector.
In a typical desktop scenario, drives can take up to 20+ seconds to attempt a recovery of the bad sector. In a RAID array, RAID controllers only allow the drive around 7 seconds. After 7 seconds, the hard drive with error recovery controls tells the RAID controller that it’s got a bad block. The RAID controller then documents the bad block, rebuilds the bad block from the parity in the rest of the array into a different block, then resumes operation as expected.
Win.

Soo… what do I have to do?

Well, your options are pretty simple actually. Just populate your NAS units with drives that have some sort of error recovery controls! Now prior to a year ago, this meant you’d have to buy some pretty serious gear. This meant Western Digital RE4’s, Seagate Constellation’s, or whatever. The problem is that these drives are at least twice to three times as expensive as a regular hard drive. Of course, they also include enterprise validation, longer MTBF ratings, longer warranties, self-encryption, accelerometers, and a whole bunch of other stuff you probably don’t need and don’t really care for if all you’re trying to do is store some pictures of your last vacation.

This is where NAS oriented drives come in. Unlike your typical consumer hard drive, NAS drives include error recovery controls, but don’t include all of the extra fluff that enterprise users need. This allows manufacturers to keep pricing on the NAS drives closer to what we’d expect on consumer hard drives, yet the drives themselves won’t be a serious risk to your data.
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Old 12-16-2015, 07:45 AM
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^^^^In the 6 + years of installing Dunes and Servers in Homes, I have never had any issues with TLER on raids. I have about 34 setups in the wild and all are running desktop drives @ 7200 RPM with highpoint cards. Most are Raid 5 approaching 3 years or better. The newer setups are Raid 6 just under a year or two in service. Still no issues with TLER dropouts or rebuilds. All are Window Server based servers. For my business clients and mission critical servers with VMs we use enterprise class drives but it is not required for the home users.
I just started using Toshiba drives so I guess time will tell.

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Old 12-16-2015, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mr266 View Post
My network is fine. I can actually stream from the NAS, through powerlines (both attached to the same gigabit switch) over to my computer in another room without any stutter (the larger non-compressed files). The problem is that the only way to have the file structure show up the way I want it on my WDTV SMP (I'm running a 3rd party os on it) I have to use an NFS share, and for some reason the problem lies there. Once the WDTV's die out, I'll go with a Chromebox w/Kodi, or something similar, which should take care of that problem. For now though, this seems to be a fine solution.
I wish I had a dollar for every time a client said that exact statement. True and reliable performance is only guaranteed by a hardwired LAN with Gigabit hardware throughout. Powerline adapters are a band aide and not a substitute for an actual cable drop. Just because you can surf the web or post on Facebook that does mean your network is up to snuff. The Dune players have a built in read test. On a healthy network the Dune Base 3.0 reads @ 11 MB/s while the Dune Base 3Ds read 35 - 40 MB/s. Anything less and the network is sub par. Any power-line adapter, that I have tested, only allowed the Dune Base 3.0 to pull at 6 MB/s which would stutter on more demanding files. I just had this issue last week with a client. He didn't want the expense of a cable drop and tried the powerline adapter. The Dune stuttered. He returned them to amazon.Once we dropped a cable all was good.
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Old 12-16-2015, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by blackssr View Post
Check you network. Even the highest bit rate 3D movie with Atmos should not saturate a 10/100 network and definitely will have no effect on a healthy GB lan. In my home, as well as several clients,we are are able to stream to 3 Dunes simultaneously without stutter, all from a central Windows based server. If in doubt or not confident in your ability, have a professional network guy in your area test your lan speeds and server abilities. It will be money well spent. If running wireless, have cables dropped. Drops should cost about $125/per. Wireless is not the way to go for full bit rate BD streaming and definitely not for 4K streaming in the future.
With a properly setup WiFi network, streaming a BD is not an issue. I only have wireless N and I can easily stream high bitrate BD ISOs over wireless without issues. 4K streaming, which is actually a lower bitrate, also has zero issues. But over my GigE LAN I can easily stream many concurrent high bitrate BD ISOs from a 5900 rpm drive.
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Old 12-16-2015, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by blackssr View Post
and AnyDVD HD.
I was forced to use MakeMKV since my other program crashed every time trying to rip Revenge of the Ninja

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Old 12-16-2015, 08:28 AM
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IIRC, According to BackBlaze.com, an online storage site that uses 44,000 HDD, Seagate has a 40% fail rate, followed by WD (10%) , Toshiba (7%) and finally HGSTAR which is under 1%.
I remember that report. I won't argue the accuracy of the numbers you gave but the way it's presented is very misleading. Seagate did have a reliability problem but it only effected the 3TB drives. Just so happens most of the Seagate drives Backblaze had in use were those 3TB drives.

From:
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/3tb-hard-drive-failure
"While this particular 3TB model had a painfully high rate of failure, subsequent Seagate models such as their 4TB drive, model: ST4000DM000, are performing well with an annualized 2014 failure rate of just 2.6% as of December 31, 2014."
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Old 12-16-2015, 08:35 AM
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4K streaming, which is actually a lower bitrate, also has zero issues.
4K Stream as in UHD Blu ray? What Blu-Rays do you have already?

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Old 12-16-2015, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by blackssr View Post
I wish I had a dollar for every time a client said that exact statement. True and reliable performance is only guaranteed by a hardwired LAN with Gigabit hardware throughout. Powerline adapters are a band aide and not a substitute for an actual cable drop. Just because you can surf the web or post on Facebook that does mean your network is up to snuff. The Dune players have a built in read test. On a healthy network the Dune Base 3.0 reads @ 11 MB/s while the Dune Base 3Ds read 35 - 40 MB/s. Anything less and the network is sub par. Any power-line adapter, that I have tested, only allowed the Dune Base 3.0 to pull at 6 MB/s which would stutter on more demanding files. I just had this issue last week with a client. He didn't want the expense of a cable drop and tried the powerline adapter. The Dune stuttered. He returned them to amazon.Once we dropped a cable all was good.
I'm probably not explaining this well, but here goes. My network is fine (I had over 32 years in IT and was network certified for a good portion of that time). I only mentioned the Powerlines because the problem is not following across there. The problem is on a full gigabit side (both the nas and the WDTV connected to the same switch and not going over a non wired portion of the lan) and it only occurs when using the NFS share, but that's the only way to get my file structure to come up the way I want/need. My actual intent was to use the powerlines to my computer as just a test because I will eventually have a new flatscreen down stairs, and that will be an utter bitch to have a cable drop to. With that said, these powerlines that I've played around with have actually worked flawlessly (maybe due to my houses wiring). Hardwiring is always the best choice, but sometimes it doesn't just come down to expense, but feasibility.

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Old 12-16-2015, 10:28 AM
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I only have about 24 units in the wild. 3 servers. Two are running over 8 months now and no failures. I choose them due to being 7200 RPM and priced right. With Raid 6, I am not too worried about failures. I have the Raid cards set to email me in the event of failure or trouble.
Thanks blackssr! I think that I will go with the Toshibas as it is time to upgrade from my 2 TB Barracudas. I can't find the same price that you got them for but the ones that I did find are under $30.00 per TB, which is fine by me, considering that my Barracudas were closer to $100.00 per TB. Dramatic difference...definitely got those 2 TB drives at the wrong time!

Cheers

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Old 12-16-2015, 10:35 AM
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4K Stream as in UHD Blu ray? What Blu-Rays do you have already?
Who will be able to rip a UHD BD to stream?

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Old 12-16-2015, 01:32 PM
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Who will be able to rip a UHD BD to stream?
I feel like we are Abbott and Costello. I was referring to a statement you made about 4K streaming over wireless. What 4K content are you streaming that is less bit rate than Blu-Ray?

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Old 12-16-2015, 01:35 PM
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Thanks blackssr! I think that I will go with the Toshibas as it is time to upgrade from my 2 TB Barracudas. I can't find the same price that you got them for but the ones that I did find are under $30.00 per TB, which is fine by me, considering that my Barracudas were closer to $100.00 per TB. Dramatic difference...definitely got those 2 TB drives at the wrong time!

Cheers
You are Welcome.
I buy wholesale. I am in the PC/IT/Networking business. I think Amazon has for $ 145.00 or so.

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-7200rp...50301665&sr=1-
1&keywords=5+tb+internal+hard+drive+toshiba.

Good Luck and make certain your raid card sees above 3TB.( Drives that is. Not total array size>)

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Old 12-16-2015, 01:37 PM
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I was forced to use MakeMKV since my other program crashed every time trying to rip Revenge of the Ninja
Well, bad ninja karma?
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Old 12-16-2015, 03:55 PM
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Nothing makes this read move more than someone that posts up the word compression.
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Old 12-16-2015, 04:44 PM
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You are Welcome.
I buy wholesale. I am in the PC/IT/Networking business. I think Amazon has for $ 145.00 or so.

http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-7200rp...50301665&sr=1-
1&keywords=5+tb+internal+hard+drive+toshiba.

Good Luck and make certain your raid card sees above 3TB.( Drives that is. Not total array size>)
Yes, I figured that you must be getting them wholesale. The ones at Amazon were the ones that I was looking at...comes to $29 per TB.

By the way, I'm using an unRAID server that I built.

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Old 12-16-2015, 04:54 PM
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Nothing makes this read move more than someone that posts up the word compression.
Compression is a tool.

Like many tools, it can be used skillfully and achieve beneficial tradeoffs, or it can be used poorly and likely make a real mess in the process.

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Old 12-16-2015, 08:14 PM
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Nothing makes this read move more than someone that posts up the word compression.
I think I need a cold compress.

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Old 12-16-2015, 09:14 PM
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I feel like we are Abbott and Costello. I was referring to a statement you made about 4K streaming over wireless. What 4K content are you streaming that is less bit rate than Blu-Ray?
Amazon, Netflix, Ultraflix, and Vudu. They all have streaming UHD movies/TV shows.

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Old 12-17-2015, 03:43 AM
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Nothing makes this read move more than someone that posts up the word compression.
I don't care if people decide compression is or isn't right for themselves. I do care when people scorn others for doing it.
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Old 12-17-2015, 05:10 AM
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Amazon, Netflix, Ultraflix, and Vudu. They all have streaming UHD movies/TV shows.
Up converted, though, right? Not shot in 4K, or film re-scanned in 4K?

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Old 12-17-2015, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Up converted, though, right? Not shot in 4K, or film re-scanned in 4K?
Shot in 4K. Especially many of the original shows from Amazon and Netflix are shot in 4k. The Blacklist is another show that is shot in 4K that Netflix has UHD episodes of(which looks superb). Of course I'm sure there are some movies that were scanned or upscaled from the studios to 4K too.

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Old 12-17-2015, 03:10 PM
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Why compress a BD and lose quality and possibly hd audio? Hdds are so cheap now. You can build a large array for less than a grand these days.
Well, now you've got me questioning my procedure here I used to compress DVD but stopped doing that with the reasoning that they are only 8GB worst case, why bother?

I've always compressed (with Handbrake) Blurays because they are all 25GB+. Maybe I need to rethink this. I've got a 9TB unRaid server (which means 6TB usable). Assuming every movie was 30GB, I could fit about 200 Blurays on my server. Not a whole lot. I'd have to triple or quadruple my storage to make things practical. How much storage do most folks have for a media server?

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Old 12-17-2015, 03:22 PM
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Well, now you've got me questioning my procedure here I used to compress DVD but stopped doing that with the reasoning that they are only 8GB worst case, why bother?

I've always compressed (with Handbrake) Blurays because they are all 25GB+. Maybe I need to rethink this. I've got a 9TB unRaid server (which means 6TB usable). Assuming every movie was 30GB, I could fit about 200 Blurays on my server. Not a whole lot. I'd have to triple or quadruple my storage to make things practical. How much storage do most folks have for a media server?

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I have 64 TB (usable) Raid 6. If I like a movie enough to buy it, I want the best experience possible. HD audio, highest bit rate, etc. This is why I do not compress anything and never will. I'll never understand why people compress and accept a sub par experience. Why ruin the experience? This is my cheapest hobby and many get to enjoy it. Drives are really cheap now.
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Old 12-17-2015, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jcmccorm View Post
Well, now you've got me questioning my procedure here I used to compress DVD but stopped doing that with the reasoning that they are only 8GB worst case, why bother?

I've always compressed (with Handbrake) Blurays because they are all 25GB+. Maybe I need to rethink this. I've got a 9TB unRaid server (which means 6TB usable). Assuming every movie was 30GB, I could fit about 200 Blurays on my server. Not a whole lot. I'd have to triple or quadruple my storage to make things practical. How much storage do most folks have for a media server?

Cary
I compress for convenience. There is picture degradation when you compress but the loss to me is insignificant. If you compress down to 5GB, the loss is minimal if any in my eyes. At 5GB, i can put 200 movies per terabyte. With my new 12TB (net) RAID, I can put 2400 movies on it. To be honest, a lot of my videos are compressed to about 2-3GB, so I can realistically put 300-500 movies per terabyte. At that point, I can see a bit more of compression or loss in resolution, but not enough to bother me. It looks about the same in quality as I would see on VUDU or NetFlix.

If I really want to maintain picture quality, I use Handbrake and use H.265 compression. H.265 is a lot more efficient and has noticeably better quality over H.264. Only drawbacks are not too many devices support H.265 and also that H.265 takes a LOT of time to transcode, usually two hours or more.

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Old 12-17-2015, 03:46 PM
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Drives are really cheap now.
Apparently your time also.
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Old 12-17-2015, 03:54 PM
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can anyone recommend a good external blu-ray writer and the software? Thanks.
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