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post #9781 of 9810 Unread 08-15-2016, 11:03 AM
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The end is near?

http://www.myce.com/news/rumor-cinav...stomers-80217/
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post #9782 of 9810 Unread 08-15-2016, 12:02 PM
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Nice rumor. Looking at the protected title lists, it has always been predominantly a Sony play from the start for just about all their movies. The past couple years have seen Universal start to adopt it and Lions Gate has dipped their toe in the water with a couple titles. That is to say that FOX and WB have not released any protected titles in recent years so losing them as a customer doesn't seem like a big deal -- if true. If Sony ever pulls out then it is game over.

It doesn't really end until the BD-LA no longer requires new BD players to implement Cinavia. At that point it is truly over.

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post #9783 of 9810 Unread 08-15-2016, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Nice rumor. Looking at the protected title lists, it has always been predominantly a Sony play from the start for just about all their movies. The past couple years have seen Universal start to adopt it and Lions Gate has dipped their toe in the water with a couple titles. That is to say that FOX and WB have not released any protected titles in recent years so losing them as a customer doesn't seem like a big deal -- if true. If Sony ever pulls out then it is game over.

It doesn't really end until the BD-LA no longer requires new BD players to implement Cinavia. At that point it is truly over.
Cinavia has never effected me as I have always used Dune players. However, I try to stay up on it and was happy when its armor was chinked a while back with the few trying to defeat it.

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post #9784 of 9810 Unread 08-15-2016, 05:16 PM
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Cinavia has never effected me as I have always used Dune players. However, I try to stay up on it and was happy when its armor was chinked a while back with the few trying to defeat it.
Me either. I rarely use my vintage BD player -- last Panasonic made without Cinavia.

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post #9785 of 9810 Unread 08-15-2016, 10:40 PM
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I'm not really surprised - cinavia only protected one use case - people playing protected movies on players by copying the disc (and making adjustments to trick the player into playing a movie from a writable disc). These days, you can copy the disc, but not play it on a player - there are plenty of players that can play images or rips, both hardware and software.

And beyond that, media players able to play transcoded movies are really common as well.

The whole reason for cinavia was people copying discs like the person selling DVDs on the street. But the relative expense of Blu-Ray burners, the high costs of discs, pretty much made that irrelevant.
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post #9786 of 9810 Unread 08-16-2016, 07:44 AM
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The whole reason for cinavia was people copying discs like the person selling DVDs on the street. But the relative expense of Blu-Ray burners, the high costs of discs, pretty much made that irrelevant.
Oh, no it didn't. An LG BluRay burner is $60 and BD-R blanks can be had for $0.30/disk when on sale. On a capacity basis that is cheaper than DVD-R blanks and a lot cheaper than HDD's. Disk burning is alive and well and a lot cheaper for the pirates than what we do with disk farms and media players.

I follow the DVD Fab forums and blog comments. It seems like 95% of their entire user base targets ripping and burning disks. Their software is constructed exactly for that purpose. You can easily rip a title with selected tracks, re-code it to fit a BD-R and burn it to disk -- all with just a couple of clicks. DVD Fab's previous lack of a Cinavia solution has been a burr under their users' saddle for years and the mods quickly delete or deflect the more critical posts. Users are still not happy with the current solution because the list of supported titles is limited and the newest titles are lacking. One reads comments like: It takes 30 days from release before I can rent it. That should be plenty of time for them to crack Cinavia on the new releases.

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post #9787 of 9810 Unread 08-16-2016, 09:42 PM
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Well, I'm pretty sure while it might be popular, it too is suffering from the same fate legit discs are - people are just streaming or downloading it. I mean, do you want to buy the disc for $5 from the guy on the street, or download it for free? And if you want it portably, a portable Blu-Ray player is big, bulky and expensive, whereas downloading it (legit or not) means I can watch it on my smartphone or tablet.

For me, I just use a media player with 1:1 rips and no cinavia (in fact, it was a set of players shipped to me from Asia for work that showed me what people used).

It's likely the benefit of cinavia is outweighed by it's cost. So what if a few are ripping discs and burning them? They're a far smaller group to protect against than the vastly more popular downloading and playing them on the dozens of players available, practically none of which are required to support cinavia.
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post #9788 of 9810 Unread 08-17-2016, 07:35 AM
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Pirating disks is still big business. The totally Draconian DRM in UHD disks is evidence of that.
With respect to Cinavia, time will tell. My hope is that UHD gains enough popularity so that they will stop worrying about protecting BluRay to the max the same way they have relaxed DVD protection.
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post #9789 of 9810 Unread 08-17-2016, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post

It's likely the benefit of cinavia is outweighed by it's cost. So what if a few are ripping discs and burning them? They're a far smaller group to protect against than the vastly more popular downloading and playing them on the dozens of players available, practically none of which are required to support cinavia.
Do you have data to support this? "Few" .. "far smaller", etc?

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post #9790 of 9810 Unread 08-17-2016, 10:26 AM
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Is Cinavia used on UHD also? I wish Redfox would hurry and get crackin'. I am itching to buy an 85" 4K TV but am holding off until I can play 4K media on it from my server.

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post #9791 of 9810 Unread 08-17-2016, 07:57 PM
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I am itching to buy an 85" 4K TV . . . .
Not until the price of OLED comes down to where plasma used to be

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post #9792 of 9810 Unread 08-17-2016, 09:31 PM
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My hope is that UHD gains enough popularity so that they will stop worrying about protecting BluRay to the max the same way they have relaxed DVD protection.
Well, before I switched over to BD, EVERY DVD I ripped would fit on a blank without compression so it would appear they willingly weakened bitrate to make BDs look better. Of course, that's exactly the kind of behaviour I'd expect from a sleazy industry...

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post #9793 of 9810 Unread 08-18-2016, 08:18 AM
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Not until the price of OLED comes down to where plasma used to be
That would be sweet.. An 85" OLED for $ 699.99.. I was admiring the LG 55" OLED in Best Buy. The blacks are incredible.

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post #9794 of 9810 Unread 08-18-2016, 08:34 AM
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Well, before I switched over to BD, EVERY DVD I ripped would fit on a blank without compression so it would appear they willingly weakened bitrate to make BDs look better. Of course, that's exactly the kind of behaviour I'd expect from a sleazy industry...
I used to rip DVDs back fifteen years ago and I rarely had one that would fit on a single layer disc without further compression. That experience was why i swore I would never mess with compressing again

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post #9795 of 9810 Unread 08-18-2016, 10:04 AM
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I was admiring the LG 55" OLED in Best Buy. The blacks are incredible.
Same here. My 65" plasma is only a couple years old. Next stop is min 80" and I want it to be OLED.

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post #9796 of 9810 Unread 08-18-2016, 10:12 AM
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I used to rip DVDs back fifteen years ago and I rarely had one that would fit on a single layer disc without further compression. That experience was why i swore I would never mess with compressing again
I actually had quite a few that would fit onto single layer DVD-R disc's.

But I preferred to create 'movie only' disc's. Meaning I removed the menus, extra content along with any superfluous audio and subtitle tracks

Thankfully today, large capacity HDD's are cheap and there are many types of multi A/V format hardware playback devices
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I have a question. If they're so worried about people pirating things, why don't they just NOT make PC drives that read the media in the first place? Sony took that route with SACD and this DRM method has yet to be broken on anything other than the incredibly rare, original PS3 with SACD-capable optical drive running homebrew firmware.

And Cinavia is not all that and a bag of chips. If you burn a BD-R that gets the warning on a Blu-ray player, all you need is a PC with a BD drive and a couple of free programs and it's game on. I don't get why they are even wasting their time.

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I have a question. If they're so worried about people pirating things, why don't they just NOT make PC drives that read the media in the first place?
Agreed. I doubt they'll be making the same mistake with UHD disc's...

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Sony took that route with SACD and this DRM method has yet to be broken on anything other than the incredibly rare, original PS3 with SACD-capable optical drive running homebrew firmware.
It's recently become possible to back-up SACD's using an Oppo BDP-10x player and a computer

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post #9799 of 9810 Unread Today, 07:44 AM
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Agreed. I doubt they'll be making the same mistake with UHD disc's...
I don't see that as a valid solution. People will want UHD drives to watch movies from their PC or their Laptop.
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post #9800 of 9810 Unread Today, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
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I have a question. If they're so worried about people pirating things, why don't they just NOT make PC drives that read the media in the first place? Sony took that route with SACD and this DRM method has yet to be broken on anything other than the incredibly rare, original PS3 with SACD-capable optical drive running homebrew firmware.

And Cinavia is not all that and a bag of chips. If you burn a BD-R that gets the warning on a Blu-ray player, all you need is a PC with a BD drive and a couple of free programs and it's game on. I don't get why they are even wasting their time.
Hello,

I think the other issue here is that SACD never really gained serious momentum in the marketplace, it was an expensive, elite format that was wrecked because of internal battles within Sony, who developed the format. That lack of market share is why SACD copying was never a big issue or requirement, there were so few people interested. Contrast that with DVD and Blu-Ray uptake. The other issue which was suggested to me was that the inability to read SACD on computers did nothing to help it's adoption. Remember DVD was developed with the computer companies co-operation as a dual entertainment medium and data carrying format, Blu-Ray had a similar double life as a data carrier and backup format. It would be difficult to conceive of an optical format launching now without computer industry support.

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Agreed. I doubt they'll be making the same mistake with UHD disc's...

It's recently become possible to back-up SACD's using an Oppo BDP-10x player and a computer
Too late. All you need is a Blu-ray drive capable of reading BD-XL discs. These are already on store shelves, though they don't market that specific ability. The problem is that the companies that make the ripping softwares haven't taken a stab at UHD yet.
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Hello,

I think the other issue here is that SACD never really gained serious momentum in the marketplace, it was an expensive, elite format that was wrecked because of internal battles within Sony, who developed the format. That lack of market share is why SACD copying was never a big issue or requirement, there were so few people interested. Contrast that with DVD and Blu-Ray uptake. The other issue which was suggested to me was that the inability to read SACD on computers did nothing to help it's adoption. Remember DVD was developed with the computer companies co-operation as a dual entertainment medium and data carrying format, Blu-Ray had a similar double life as a data carrier and backup format. It would be difficult to conceive of an optical format launching now without computer industry support.

Regards,

Dave
I was going to say that as well, but maybe in the line of it's a format that no one really cares about besides audio snobs. I just didn't want to get flamed.

The BD ship has sailed. Its too in common use to stop making drives. I'm sure UHD drives will be the same.
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The BD ship has sailed. Its too in common use to stop making drives. I'm sure UHD drives will be the same.
Eventually optical media will go the way of the floppy disk. It's just a matter of when. It won't matter what kind of drive you can buy, or what super rare one-off model player you have if the studios don't make discs available.
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Eventually optical media will go the way of the floppy disk. It's just a matter of when. It won't matter what kind of drive you can buy, or what super rare one-off model player you have if the studios don't make discs available.
It is a long way off... VHS players were just killed off in production.DVDs are still popular as are BDs. Most diehards with a lot of coin invested in their HT set ups would never consider streaming with the PQ and AQ in the state that is available now. I want the best PQ and SQ and that is only available in optical media. It will take some time before optical media is killed off. By then I will be too old to care. Users with just a TV, soundbar or HITB setups are OK with the poor quality of streaming, enthusiasts cringe at even the though of it. I have only an 85" TV and streaming looks and sounds inferior to the movies on my own server.

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It is a long way off... VHS players were just killed off in production.DVDs are still popular as are BDs. Most diehards with a lot of coin invested in their HT set ups would never consider streaming with the PQ and AQ in the state that is available now. I want the best PQ and SQ and that is only available in optical media. It will take some time before optical media is killed off. By then I will be too old to care. Users with just a TV, soundbar or HITB setups are OK with the poor quality of streaming, enthusiasts cringe at even the though of it. I have only an 85" TV and streaming looks and sounds inferior to the movies on my own server.
yup. unless streaming can match physical media in terms of PQ and AQ, then physical will remain. Even then, what do you do with people that can't afford or get high speed internet?
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IMO, the main reason we, as a populace, can't get/afford true broadband is because of entrenched monopolists, i.e.the cable companies. Broadband is as much a necessitiy as water and electricity and should be regulated as a utility.

Relative to THE WORLD, U.S. broadband speed is both lame and outrageously priced. While municipalities efforts to provide it to their citizens are thwarted by the monopolists' lobbyists.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...wer-expensive/

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IMO, the main reason we, as a populace, can't get/afford true broadband is because of entrenched monopolists, i.e.the cable companies. Broadband is as much a necessitiy as water and electricity and should be regulated as a utility.

Relative to THE WORLD, U.S. broadband speed is both lame and outrageously priced.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...wer-expensive/

Red - Agreed.
Purple - NO. Broadband isn't a necessity. No one is going to die without broadband. Its a WANT not a NEED. People use right/necessity way too much.
Green - Thats a loaded statement that never gets answered appropriately. Compare the US to all these other countries. We have a vastly larger country than say South Korea or Japan who are always lauded for the Broadband speeds. We also have lots of people spread out over vast areas that its unfortunately not economically viable to run lines to these people. Theres just no 1:1 comparison to those countries.

The answer is allow free competition between companies. There shouldnt be a barriers setup by local GOVT that says that Comcast is the only one allowed to do business in this area. I like my service provided by Comcast and I know I"m in the minority, but $80 for 150Mbps down is extremely high because they are the only game ALLOWED in town. Again blame your local/state govts that allowed that.

ok i'm done ranting
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It is a long way off...
I hope so.

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VHS players were just killed off in production.
There hasn't been a mainstream Hollywood movie released on VHS since 2006.
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Nobody will "die" without electricity.
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I hope so.


There hasn't been a mainstream Hollywood movie released on VHS since 2006.
I said players not movies.

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