Ripping Blu-Rays II - Page 334 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9991 of 10679 Old 11-02-2016, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mr266 View Post
Ok, so I've read a lot on here, and I guess it's really not sunk in what people are doing with forced subtitles. I use MakeMkv and I'm guessing the results are spotty at best (I say that because I can't even say how many movies I might have that have forced subtitles). So, is it safe to say that if I copy a movie with forced subtitles using Makemkv, I could then run the movie through handbrake and the forced subs would then work?...or would I need something like ClownBD? Also, is this the same problem for both DVD and BD? Thanks guys.
AnyDVDHD and ClownBD work for 99% of movies with forced subs. If is really easy to setup and use. Only a few clicks and you are good to go.

Edit: I guess I should have asked what player do you have? ClownBD works well with the Dune series. I am not familiar with other players. Sorry for not asking first.

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post #9992 of 10679 Old 11-02-2016, 04:43 PM
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I use MakeMKV and use Handbrake to embed the forced subtitles. I have had no issues with any title so far. The only hassle is that when you go to the subtitle tab, it will usually list several subtitles, with a few in English. To determine which subtitle file to embed, I playback the MKV created by MakeMKV using VLC player.

VLC player gives you the option to select which subtitle you want to use. Once i determine which subtitle is the correct one, I use Handbrake and embed the proper subtitle file and select "burn-in".

You could use Handbrake to embed but not "burn-in" the subtitles to the movie, but usually when you select the subtitle when playing the movie, the subs are pretty small for some strange reason.

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post #9993 of 10679 Old 11-02-2016, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
I use MakeMKV and use Handbrake to embed the forced subtitles. I have had no issues with any title so far. The only hassle is that when you go to the subtitle tab, it will usually list several subtitles, with a few in English. To determine which subtitle file to embed, I playback the MKV created by MakeMKV using VLC player.

VLC player gives you the option to select which subtitle you want to use. Once i determine which subtitle is the correct one, I use Handbrake and embed the proper subtitle file and select "burn-in".

You could use Handbrake to embed but not "burn-in" the subtitles to the movie, but usually when you select the subtitle when playing the movie, the subs are pretty small for some strange reason.
Thanks Jon, I'll give it a try this weekend and see what happens.
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post #9994 of 10679 Old 11-02-2016, 05:45 PM
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I also burn in forced subs since I'm processing with Handbrake anyway, but there are a couple of tools I use that might be handy to others in determining which, if any, subtitle tracks need to be included in a rip.

The online spreadsheet here has been an invaluable resource when I'm not sure if forced subs exist, or where in the movie to check for them.

For movies not listed there, I sometimes extract subtitles using MKVCleaver, then run them through BDSup2Sub which not only reports if it found any forced subs, but also displays all the individual subtitles with time stamps, for instances when all the "foreign language translated to English" subtitles might be in their own discrete track, and not properly marked as forced. The giveaway there, of course, is where there are just a few subtitles and not necessarily starting from the very beginning of the movie. Given the time stamps it's easy to check the movie at that point and see what's going on.
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post #9995 of 10679 Old 11-03-2016, 11:27 AM
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Is there a way to use Clown_BD to simultaneously process multiple Blu-rays?

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post #9996 of 10679 Old 11-03-2016, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Is there a way to use Clown_BD to simultaneously process multiple Blu-rays?
You can "Q" up multiple BDs using the batch feature.

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post #9997 of 10679 Old 11-03-2016, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon S View Post
I use MakeMKV and use Handbrake to embed the forced subtitles. I have had no issues with any title so far. The only hassle is that when you go to the subtitle tab, it will usually list several subtitles, with a few in English. To determine which subtitle file to embed, I playback the MKV created by MakeMKV using VLC player.

VLC player gives you the option to select which subtitle you want to use. Once i determine which subtitle is the correct one, I use Handbrake and embed the proper subtitle file and select "burn-in".

You could use Handbrake to embed but not "burn-in" the subtitles to the movie, but usually when you select the subtitle when playing the movie, the subs are pretty small for some strange reason.
I have a similar process, but just modify the MKV headers with MKVToolNix, I don't run it through Handbrake.

I rip with MakeMKV, play the output MKV file in VLC testing each subtitle to determine which one should be forced. Once determined, I open that in the MKVToolNix header editor and set that particular subtitle to Default & Forced. I think every player I've used will play that subtitle once it's marked as default and forced. Of course, that could also depend on any particular player's settings as well, but then I still have the option to turn them off if I wanted to for some reason.
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post #9998 of 10679 Old 11-03-2016, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by blackssr View Post
You can "Q" up multiple BDs using the batch feature.
Thanks. Just noticed that. It comes after the intial steps ... does it reopen the first two screens?

How does one deal with multiple identically named files being outputted to the same folder?

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post #9999 of 10679 Old 11-03-2016, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by solidus2801 View Post
I have a similar process, but just modify the MKV headers with MKVToolNix, I don't run it through Handbrake.

I rip with MakeMKV, play the output MKV file in VLC testing each subtitle to determine which one should be forced. Once determined, I open that in the MKVToolNix header editor and set that particular subtitle to Default & Forced. I think every player I've used will play that subtitle once it's marked as default and forced. Of course, that could also depend on any particular player's settings as well, but then I still have the option to turn them off if I wanted to for some reason.
This is exactly what I do and have been doing for well over a few years now. It's the easiest and simplest way. I just check the movies with subtitles spread sheet and if there are sub I verify, then edit the header as needed.
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post #10000 of 10679 Old 11-03-2016, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
This is exactly what I do and have been doing for well over a few years now. It's the easiest and simplest way. I just check the movies with subtitles spread sheet and if there are sub I verify, then edit the header as needed.
Didn't know about that spreadsheet! That's awesome!

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post #10001 of 10679 Old 11-03-2016, 07:44 PM
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problem ripping x-men Apocolypse

I've been using an mkv > handbrake > m4v workflow for some time now (years, many movies) to back up my purchased blu-rays. For the first time I have run into a strange phenomenom where I can't use the .m4v. Quick time, Player or meta apps like media info and subler all cause a popup window that just gets stuck. It has the Mac security symbol (grey house vault thing) and a progress bar. Any ideas? Sorry if it's an obvious issue. The .mkv plays fine in sPlayer btw.
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post #10002 of 10679 Old 11-04-2016, 07:38 AM
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I've been using an mkv > handbrake > m4v workflow for some time now (years, many movies) to back up my purchased blu-rays. For the first time I have run into a strange phenomenom where I can't use the .m4v. Quick time, Player or meta apps like media info and subler all cause a popup window that just gets stuck. It has the Mac security symbol (grey house vault thing) and a progress bar. Any ideas? Sorry if it's an obvious issue. The .mkv plays fine in sPlayer btw.
I'm just simply wondering why anyone would ever want an m4v as a container? Not only is it hindered by its incredible lack of compatibility, it has absolutely no benefit over mp4. Personally, for personal backup I keep an MKV file (full quality) and if I'm going to want that movie on my tablet for travel or whatnot I'll run it through handbrake for an mp4 (easier to tag with metaX).
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post #10003 of 10679 Old 11-04-2016, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I'm just simply wondering why anyone would ever want an m4v as a container? Not only is it hindered by its incredible lack of compatibility, it has absolutely no benefit over mp4. Personally, for personal backup I keep an MKV file (full quality) and if I'm going to want that movie on my tablet for travel or whatnot I'll run it through handbrake for an mp4 (easier to tag with metaX).
jhughy: personally, for my personal workflow and uses, it works perfectly and has worked perfectly for many years and many many files. Thanks.

Anyone have any idea about my actual question/situation?
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post #10004 of 10679 Old 11-05-2016, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by mr266 View Post
Blackssr, I'm suing a WDTV Live.
The WDTV ignores properly flagged forced subs. You'd still need to turn them on manually or have subs on by default.

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post #10005 of 10679 Old 11-05-2016, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
I'm just simply wondering why anyone would ever want an m4v as a container? Not only is it hindered by its incredible lack of compatibility, it has absolutely no benefit over mp4. Personally, for personal backup I keep an MKV file (full quality) and if I'm going to want that movie on my tablet for travel or whatnot I'll run it through handbrake for an mp4 (easier to tag with metaX).
I use M4V because I mainly use Apple products, and the M4V works everywhere out of the box including Windows and just about every streaming product I've encountered. A M4V plays on a vanilla Windows installation without downloading anything, while MKV you need to install a player. I know this isn't really a big problem because nobody uses Windows Media Player and installs something like VLC. Additionally, MP4 seems to have some limitations compared to M4V, like supporting additional surround formats. I've actually put DTS in a M4V container.

That being said I use MKV for my 1:1 Bluray movies, and M4V for my compressed movies for mobile use. I would use M4V for my compressed videos (via Handbrake) even if I didn't have any Apple products because it seems to just work on everything I have non-Apple.
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post #10006 of 10679 Old 11-05-2016, 07:36 AM
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I use M4V because I mainly use Apple products, and the M4V works everywhere out of the box including Windows and just about every streaming product I've encountered. A M4V plays on a vanilla Windows installation without downloading anything, while MKV you need to install a player. I know this isn't really a big problem because nobody uses Windows Media Player and installs something like VLC. Additionally, MP4 seems to have some limitations compared to M4V, like supporting additional surround formats. I've actually put DTS in a M4V container.

That being said I use MKV for my 1:1 Bluray movies, and M4V for my compressed movies for mobile use. I would use M4V for my compressed videos (via Handbrake) even if I didn't have any Apple products because it seems to just work on everything I have non-Apple.
This is quite the contrary as m4v is extremely limited outside of apple products. For example, just about every smart TV I have connected a USB thumb drive or external hard drive up to and attempted to playback an m4v file has failed. MP4 files though play fine. I have experimented around with this pretty extensively in the past. Things may have changed but I completely doubt it as I think MP4 has become more widely adopted over M4V as a container (MKV obviously the superior container but not for a re-encoded file).
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post #10007 of 10679 Old 11-05-2016, 05:17 PM
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Folks - FWIW, this issue apears to be bigger than the one movie I was ripping. It seems that suddenly a bunch of my movies are not playing anymore (in anything). The only thing that has changed is the upgrade to OS Sierra. I know which ones won't/dont play because the icon for the file shows up as a blank page of paper instead of the usual box cover or movie related. I've been using the same system ripping blu rays for years with not a single problem.
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post #10008 of 10679 Old 11-05-2016, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by meegwell View Post
Folks - FWIW, this issue apears to be bigger than the one movie I was ripping. It seems that suddenly a bunch of my movies are not playing anymore (in anything). The only thing that has changed is the upgrade to OS Sierra. I know which ones won't/dont play because the icon for the file shows up as a blank page of paper instead of the usual box cover or movie related. I've been using the same system ripping blu rays for years with not a single problem.
This is what I've found regarding the issue: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7677818

My suggestion... re-encode to MP4
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post #10009 of 10679 Old 11-05-2016, 10:20 PM
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Ripping Blu-Rays II

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
This is what I've found regarding the issue: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7677818



My suggestion... re-encode to MP4

Oops replied the wrong thread and tapatalk doesn't let me delete posts.
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post #10010 of 10679 Old 11-07-2016, 12:21 AM
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Thanks. Just noticed that. It comes after the intial steps ... does it reopen the first two screens?

How does one deal with multiple identically named files being outputted to the same folder?
You need to give each movie a unique demux location and remux location.
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post #10011 of 10679 Old 11-07-2016, 07:48 PM
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Random post alert !

I've been annoyed for ages that my rip of Pink - Funhouse Tour Blu-ray to MKV had a couple of brief audio drop outs when streamed through my PCH-A400. Ripped multiple times but the drop outs were exactly the same every time. Also noticed that ripping was slower than real time ! No drop outs when played on my Oppo.

So I bought another copy and it behaved exactly the same.

Then ripped to ISO and drop outs gone !

All ripping done with DVDFab.

Cheers,
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post #10012 of 10679 Old 11-09-2016, 04:56 PM
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I used to use ClownBD but it never did exactly what I wanted. For a while now I have been slowly working on a program to do exactly what I wanted. Below is a link to the application and a zip file of the tools needed to make main movie folder/iso backups.

You will need to be able to decrypt the Blu-Ray in order to use my application. If you use AnyDVD-HD my application will tell you the correct playlist of obfuscated discs.

The tools included in the zip are eac3to, tsmuxer, ffplay, bdsup2sub, and imgburn. If you like my application you should thank the creators of the programs that enable it to work. I only created a interface to make using the programs more easily.

The application is fairly straight forward with exception of the subtitle editor. The subtitle editor is mainly used to view subtitles for a specific stream or combine 2 streams together when dealing with forced subtitles.

I am not looking to add more features based on other peoples desires. I am however at the point that I would like to know about any bugs found if you decide to try my application. If enough find this application interesting I can start a new topic.

www.dropbox.com/sh/25w69pxf0upmmur/AAAISyvF4vqRSQDe4l27pcrka?dl=0
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Last edited by jasonkennethrose; 11-10-2016 at 07:47 AM.
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post #10013 of 10679 Old 11-09-2016, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jhughy2010 View Post
This is quite the contrary as m4v is extremely limited outside of apple products. For example, just about every smart TV I have connected a USB thumb drive or external hard drive up to and attempted to playback an m4v file has failed. MP4 files though play fine. I have experimented around with this pretty extensively in the past. Things may have changed but I completely doubt it as I think MP4 has become more widely adopted over M4V as a container (MKV obviously the superior container but not for a re-encoded file).
The irony is that mp4 and m4v only differ in extension. They are exactly the same file format! Apple called their files m4a and m4v as extensions while others use .aac and .mp4 for the same thing.

Technically speaking, mp4 and m4v are a subset of the Apple QuickTime file format (.mov), as is .3gp. If a player refuses to see a m4v file, just rename it and it'll work. Apple actually contributed the file format to the MPEG 4 standard.
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post #10014 of 10679 Old 11-10-2016, 06:16 AM
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The irony is that mp4 and m4v only differ in extension. They are exactly the same file format! Apple called their files m4a and m4v as extensions while others use .aac and .mp4 for the same thing.

Technically speaking, mp4 and m4v are a subset of the Apple QuickTime file format (.mov), as is .3gp. If a player refuses to see a m4v file, just rename it and it'll work. Apple actually contributed the file format to the MPEG 4 standard.
Exactly, that is exactly why MP4 should be preferred over M4V. I've used to encode to M4V (the default encode on Handbrake when you select MP4) but then stopped as soon as I figured out Samsung Smart TVs couldn't read the file.

Renaming the files doesn't work (changing the extension) for whatever reason.
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post #10015 of 10679 Old 11-10-2016, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jasonkennethrose View Post
I used to use ClownBD but it never did exactly what I wanted. For a while now I have been slowly working on a program to do exactly what I wanted. Below is a link to the application and a zip file of the tools needed to make main movie folder/iso backups.

You will need to be able to decrypt the Blu-Ray in order to use my application. If you use AnyDVD-HD my application will tell you the correct playlist of obfuscated discs.

The tools included in the zip are eac3to, tsmuxer, ffplay, bdsup2sub, and imgburn ...
Could you explain what you wanted to do that ClownBD (and the array of tools it uses and that you mention as being included with your program) does not do?

Jeff

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"I like the future, I'm in it." F. Theater
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post #10016 of 10679 Old 11-10-2016, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Could you explain what you wanted to do that ClownBD (and the array of tools it uses and that you mention as being included with your program) does not do?

Jeff


I wanted a streamline way of making backups the way I wanted them. I only make folder backups of main movie with the 1 audio track and 1 subtitle track. If the movie had forced subtitles I wanted to be able to combine the forced subtitles with the main subtitle track if needed. I also wanted to be able to run more then one instance so while remixing I could be demuxing another.


ClownBD only detects forced subtitles if eac3to detects them as forced on. It then puts the forced subtitles into a separate track and mark the track as default. My application will detect forced subtitle tracks if they are not forced on but do exist in a separate track. You can combine main and forced subtitle tracks to only have 1 subtitle track making it much easier on players to detect and use.


If you use my application with AnyDVD-HD on a obfuscated protected disc my application will tell you the correct playlist. There is also a m2ts viewer to look at clips when you rip movies that have English/Spanish/French versions so you can choose the correct mpls.


My application uses the exact same programs ClownBD does but my application was made to flow the way I make my backups.
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post #10017 of 10679 Old 11-10-2016, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonkennethrose View Post
ClownBD only detects forced subtitles if eac3to detects them as forced on. It then puts the forced subtitles into a separate track and mark the track as default. My application will detect forced subtitle tracks if they are not forced on but do exist in a separate track. You can combine main and forced subtitle tracks to only have 1 subtitle track making it much easier on players to detect and use.
I am intrigued but cautiously skeptical. Please elaborate. How do you detect forced tracks that are not forced on but do exist in a separate track? Does it work on Gran Torino?

What do you mean "combine main and forced" tracks? Is that just the original track, before the forced subs were extracted? Or is this still referring to the separate track kind of disc? What kind of players find the combined track easier to detect and use?

What language is your tool written in? Is the source code available? What's in files.zip?

For reference, here's my explanation of the various authoring options for forced subs and my process for ClownBD (especially see the "Extremely Anal" section for combining sub tracks.)
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post #10018 of 10679 Old 11-10-2016, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ScottJ View Post
What do you mean "combine main and forced" tracks? Is that just the original track, before the forced subs were extracted? Or is this still referring to the separate track kind of disc? What kind of players find the combined track easier to detect and use?

What language is your tool written in? Is the source code available? What's in files.zip?
There are 3 types of forced subtitle tracks.

1: Subtitles marked as forced along side normal subtitles in a single track.

2: Subtitles marked as forced in its own track.

3: Subtitles in a track that are not marked as forced but are turned on by java.

ClownBD can deal with both 1 and 2. With 1 it will extract the forced subtitles and create a new track. With 2 it will just keep that track. But with 3 it cannot handle this type. If you have more then 1 subtitle track you have to mark the one with forced subtitles as "default".

Most 3rd party players use LAV filters for playback. LAV splitter only looks at the "default" track for forced subtitles. There are tools that can be used to mark a track as default but I like things to be simple.

By always combining the main subtitle track of the language I want with the forced subtitles I only have 1 subtitle track like example 1 above for a player to worry about. Only 1 track makes it "default" by default always guaranteeing I have forced subtitles appearing when needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ View Post
Result: Type 1 subs, if the SUP file doesn't flag each frame as forced, will not be detected by Clown (or MakeMKV, or any other automated way I know of).
Another reason I wrote my application. I wanted to detect the type ClownBD didn't. After ripping 1000's of Blu-Rays I found that no unmarked subtitle track that should be marked as forced was more then 10 megs. I just look at the size and let you know it may contain a unmarked subtitle track so you can look at it, mark the subtitles, and combine it with the main subtitle track.

For the files in the zip. It contains everything included in eac3to, tsmuxer, bdsup2sub, ffplay, and imgburn. If you want to get those for a different location I understand. If you use ClownBD you all ready have these tools and can just point to them in the paths.

My application is written in the same code ClownBD is "autohotkey". You can extract the script from the exe if you like or you can look at it here.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kx9zhq6wyh...57%20.txt?dl=0

Last edited by jasonkennethrose; 11-10-2016 at 05:02 PM.
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post #10019 of 10679 Old 11-10-2016, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jasonkennethrose View Post
Most 3rd party players use LAV filters for playback. LAV splitter only looks at the "default" track for forced subtitles. There are tools that can be used to mark a track as default but I like things to be simple.

By always combining the main subtitle track of the language I want with the forced subtitles I only have 1 subtitle track like example 1 above for a player to worry about. Only 1 track makes it "default" by default always guaranteeing I have forced subtitles appearing when needed.
Cool, I didn't know those players could deal with forced subs like that.

But you didn't answer the question I was most intrigued about: How does your program detect forced tracks that are not forced on but do exist in a separate track? Does it work on Gran Torino?
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post #10020 of 10679 Old 11-10-2016, 05:05 PM
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Cool, I didn't know those players could deal with forced subs like that.

But you didn't answer the question I was most intrigued about: How does your program detect forced tracks that are not forced on but do exist in a separate track? Does it work on Gran Torino?
I did, just reread my post. I edited it after I realized I didn't answer that question.
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