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post #10441 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mecmec View Post
Yep, I think I am at 60+TB's of Isos so I'm kinda all in at this point for ISO.
Full disc ISO, I guess is what you mean. Main movie, lossless blah blah blah can be in an ISO as well.

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post #10442 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Full disc ISO, I guess is what you mean. Main movie, lossless blah blah blah can be in an ISO as well.
Yes, correct. 1:1 ISO (well, not really, if protection is stripped out, but close enough)
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post #10443 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 01:31 PM
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great drive. i have two in service and another one as a back up. never needed the back up..
I learned something new about riplock. Does this drive WH16NS40 has riplock ? Is there any way to check if a drive does or does not
have riplock ? Thanks
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post #10444 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 01:39 PM
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Yes, correct. 1:1 ISO (well, not really, if protection is stripped out, but close enough)
I recently ripped some of my BD titles to 1:1 ISO to take advantage of an AnyDVD HD trial period. Easy peasy. Filled 3 x 3TB drives quickly. Then I went back and took the time to strip out main, lossless and subs. Not nearly as easy as creating the 1:1's and I had to fuss over subtitles and playlist obfuscation. It did cut my server space consumed by ~40%, but wowie zowie it was somewhat numbing.

I have 1/3 of my BD disks yet to rip, but I have mastered the workflow of demuxing/selecting/remuxing and am glad to be consuming only the barest minimum of server space.

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post #10445 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 02:32 PM
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I learned something new about riplock. Does this drive WH16NS40 has riplock ? Is there any way to check if a drive does or does not
have riplock ? Thanks
I have 4 of these:
LG Black 16X BD-R 2X BD-RE 16X DVD+R 5X DVD-RAM 12X BD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Blu-ray Burner WH16NS40


and 2 of these: LG Black 16X Blu-Ray BDXL SATA Internal rewriter with 3D Playback, Model BH16NS40

Neither have Riplock and read Blu-Ray AACS discs at 5-12x based on location of data on the disc.

I have nothing against Asus (all my motherboards and video cards are Asus) but these were the fastest available drives at the time I was purchasing (only drive with 12x AACS read) and did not have Riplock. I have been completely satisfied with these drives for read speed.

As for writing, no idea, I would never write a Blu-Ray disc.
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post #10446 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 03:03 PM
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Yep, I think I am at 60+TB's of Isos so I'm kinda all in at this point for ISO. I totally get why people want movie and high def audio only, but no way I am going to even THINK about trying to strip all that stuff out. And, it's just so damn easy to rip to an iso for me..and as redfox also removes those stupid "prohibited operation" flags where you can't skip through the stuff you want, there really is not much of a time saver if you do want to get straight to the main movie.
When I moved from ISO to main movie I was at 28TB. I used my subtitle extractor to identify all my titles that had forced subtitles. Once that was done (took about 24 hours to read all 8 drives). I then focused on all the non-forced subtitle titles and could do about 250 movies a session (its not like you have to do one at a time). After I got through all the easy movies it took a little longer to do the forced subtitle movies. Over all it only took me 8 sessions to get through about 1500 movies (not that long for a huge increase in storage ~33%).

The real slowdown will always be reading from the disc. Since the data is already off the disc, processing them is dependent on your storage speed. At 60TB you would be saving ~20TB. I wish I could afford not to worry about 20TB of storage.
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post #10447 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 03:22 PM
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When I moved from ISO to main movie I was at 28TB. I used my subtitle extractor to identify all my titles that had forced subtitles. Once that was done (took about 24 hours to read all 8 drives). I then focused on all the non-forced subtitle titles and could do about 250 movies a session (its not like you have to do one at a time). After I got through all the easy movies it took a little longer to do the forced subtitle movies. Over all it only took me 8 sessions to get through about 1500 movies (not that long for a huge increase in storage ~33%).

The real slowdown will always be reading from the disc. Since the data is already off the disc, processing them is dependent on your storage speed. At 60TB you would be saving ~20TB. I wish I could afford not to worry about 20TB of storage.
Guys, I get it! You can save space! I'm just saying that I don't care! :-) 24TB's cost me less than $500. I also like to upgrade my hard drives as new capacity ones come out. Most of mine are now residing on 8TB drives and I actually come out AHEAD on selling the old hard drives versus what I paid for them.
And like I said, sometimes we actually watch the extra's! :-)
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post #10448 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 03:38 PM
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24TB for less than $500? Are these NAS designed hdds? Where do you sell your old hdds? If I had all the space in the world I would prob do 1:1 iso. Always loved the "idea" of having the extras, but I could count on 2 fingers how many time I have actually watched them.
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post #10449 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 03:44 PM
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Guys, I get it! You can save space! I'm just saying that I don't care! :-) 24TB's cost me less than $500. I also like to upgrade my hard drives as new capacity ones come out. Most of mine are now residing on 8TB drives and I actually come out AHEAD on selling the old hard drives versus what I paid for them.
And like I said, sometimes we actually watch the extra's! :-)
Don't get me wrong. I am in no way knocking your backup choice. I just want others that are in your same situation that might be considering the decision to embark on the ISO > main movie change. The time that gets put into the effort is not that bad if one decides to do it.

My movie buying habit is about 4TB main movie space a year. 20TB is 5 years of space for me. The 4TB a year is from new releases. I could put the price of that 5 years of storage into replacing DVD's with Blu-Ray's.
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post #10450 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 06:08 PM
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Guys, I get it! You can save space! I'm just saying that I don't care! :-) 24TB's cost me less than $500. I also like to upgrade my hard drives as new capacity ones come out. Most of mine are now residing on 8TB drives and I actually come out AHEAD on selling the old hard drives versus what I paid for them.
And like I said, sometimes we actually watch the extra's! :-)
I agree that space has gotten cheaper. I paid $250/drive for 8TB NAS drives during Christmas sales. 10TB are still quite a bit more. I'd like to know how to get 3 x 8TB for $500 as well.

The issue though does become the server itself. My 12 bay Synology was $1300+. Once I max that out with 8TB drives and need more, the challenge begins. The 12 bay expansion module is another $1,000+.

Beyond that maybe it starts to get a little ridiculous. Hopefully we are just streaming lossless quality from VUDU by the time any of us reach that point.

Although, once UHD BDs become rippable and playable via some device, which they probably will at some point, that's going to be an interesting day for a storage jump.

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post #10451 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 06:12 PM
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Don't get me wrong. I am in no way knocking your backup choice. I just want others that are in your same situation that might be considering the decision to embark on the ISO > main movie change. The time that gets put into the effort is not that bad if one decides to do it.

My movie buying habit is about 4TB main movie space a year. 20TB is 5 years of space for me. The 4TB a year is from new releases. I could put the price of that 5 years of storage into replacing DVD's with Blu-Ray's.
If we didn't have to dance around forced subtitles, extracting would be so much easier.

Another challenge is TV shows. Those are time consuming. You have some where all episodes are in the single playlist and you have to tweeze them apart. Or others where the episodes are out of actual order in the disc's playlists. So you have to rip and then inspect each one. Plus sometimes the meta services episode order and the disc episode order differs. Then multiply that if you want to extract many shows, some with several seasons and 26 episodes per season. Plus too, those TV show episodes have possibility of forced subs as well.

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post #10452 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 07:06 PM
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If we didn't have to dance around forced subtitles, extracting would be so much easier.

Another challenge is TV shows. Those are time consuming. You have some where all episodes are in the single playlist and you have to tweeze them apart. Or others where the episodes are out of actual order in the disc's playlists. So you have to rip and then inspect each one. Plus sometimes the meta services episode order and the disc episode order differs. Then multiply that if you want to extract many shows, some with several seasons and 26 episodes per season. Plus too, those TV show episodes have possibility of forced subs as well.
THIS!
If it was a one click operation then yes, I would probably have just saved several discs as movie only. But it is not! I do not have ALL of my movies on my NAS. A lot of my movies are stored on 8TB external drives. My NAS is only currently about 20TB, but I have the option of simply plugging an external hard drive into one of the several usb ports to access the movies across my network. This works well for me and I obviously do not have to have all the drives running 24/7. With coupons and what not I have been able to get 8TB external in price for $140-190. $190 being the most I every paid for one. JET was awesome for quite awhile with new customer coupons!
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post #10453 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 07:10 PM
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Although, once UHD BDs become rippable and playable via some device, which they probably will at some point, that's going to be an interesting day for a storage jump.
Shhhh. I don't even want to think of this. It took me quite sometime to decide to put my Blu-Rays on hard drive.

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If we didn't have to dance around forced subtitles, extracting would be so much easier.

Another challenge is TV shows. Those are time consuming. You have some where all episodes are in the single playlist and you have to tweeze them apart. Or others where the episodes are out of actual order in the disc's playlists. So you have to rip and then inspect each one. Plus sometimes the meta services episode order and the disc episode order differs. Then multiply that if you want to extract many shows, some with several seasons and 26 episodes per season. Plus too, those TV show episodes have possibility of forced subs as well.
I would have to argue about forced subtitles. I find them incredible easy to deal with. I've even tried to make it easy for everyone else too.

I would agree about TV shows. I don't have a ton of TV disc's but I have been lucky enough for them to always be individual tracks. If I were a heavy TV guy I would just keep full discs to keep the menu support.
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post #10454 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 07:30 PM
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Shhhh. I don't even want to think of this. It took me quite sometime to decide to put my Blu-Rays on hard drive.



I would have to argue about forced subtitles. I find them incredible easy to deal with. I've even tried to make it easy for everyone else too.

I would agree about TV shows. I don't have a ton of TV disc's but I have been lucky enough for them to always be individual tracks. If I were a heavy TV guy I would just keep full discs to keep the menu support.
I will say the your program is the easiest to use, but still not a one click easy peasy. I also thank you for your contribution to this forum by sharing it with us!
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post #10455 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 08:32 PM
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I would have to argue about forced subtitles. I find them incredible easy to deal with. I've even tried to make it easy for everyone else too.

I would agree about TV shows. I don't have a ton of TV disc's but I have been lucky enough for them to always be individual tracks. If I were a heavy TV guy I would just keep full discs to keep the menu support.
I haven't used your software yet, but I read the doc and would make it the cornerstone of an extraction workflow if I do that. It certainly looks like the best/easiest/most efficient way to deal with forced subs I've ever seen. I've been tinkering with ripping media, setting up servers, and so on since ~2007 when I was first ripping DVDs to VOB files and network sharing to a PS3.

For a little while recently, I had forgone TV on disc and was sticking to streaming to avoid the hassle that comes with ripping it or frequent disc swapping. My sources are in my basement rack, so far removed from my living room making disc handling a big hassle. TV is a less critical for quality more often than not as well and not something I'm inclined to rewatch versus a movie.

It could be then that if I consolidate into the new Shield and Plex/SPMC, I do the extractions only for movie content and accept streaming quality for TV shows. There would be just a few specific instances where older/certain shows are not available streaming or to own on Amazon Video, where we've already built up a decent amount of purchased TV show content.

The other caveat that would allow me skip TV on disc is the topical nature of it. Shows don't come to disc until many months after seasons air, preventing social engagement to discuss them while they are actually newly airing.

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post #10456 of 10830 Old 01-12-2017, 09:26 PM
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Another challenge is TV shows. Those are time consuming. You have some where all episodes are in the single playlist and you have to tweeze them apart. Or others where the episodes are out of actual order in the disc's playlists. So you have to rip and then inspect each one. Plus sometimes the meta services episode order and the disc episode order differs. Then multiply that if you want to extract many shows, some with several seasons and 26 episodes per season. Plus too, those TV show episodes have possibility of forced subs as well.
I'm a fairly big TV guy (over 250 seasons of different shows) and although I would agree with you that it can be time consuming, I don't find many that are in a single playlist or out of order. I think I've had about two seasons that were in a single play list (per disc) and on the second one I realized that my preferences were set to too high a minimum time...makes me wonder if the first one was that as well. With out of disk order, there have been a couple, but they are consistent from show/year to year...House of Cards comes to mind, but most shows, if in order one year, will be in order for all years.
Every once in a while you'll find a Firefly where the disk order/aired order are different from what the actual order should have been, but a quick check of the show's wiki will usually confirm the order.

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post #10457 of 10830 Old 01-13-2017, 04:42 AM
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Every once in a while you'll find a Firefly where the disk order/aired order are different from what the actual order should have been, but a quick check of the show's wiki will usually confirm the order.
Thanks. That is the only TV series I own on BD and am about to rip it when I get back from vacation.

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post #10458 of 10830 Old 01-13-2017, 06:41 AM
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Sadly, there aren't more episodes of that show to rip/watch.
But that's a discussion for another forum.
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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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Yep, I think I am at 60+TB's of Isos so I'm kinda all in at this point for ISO. I totally get why people want movie and high def audio only, but no way I am going to even THINK about trying to strip all that stuff out. And, it's just so damn easy to rip to an iso for me..and as redfox also removes those stupid "prohibited operation" flags where you can't skip through the stuff you want, there really is not much of a time saver if you do want to get straight to the main movie.
That is not true... Having a "movie only" ripped ISO loads in 2-4 seconds on my Dunes as opposed to full ISO with menu and other extras take anywhere from 30-60 seconds to load. If I wanted the "wait time" and all the extras I would have kept my Oppos.

I've paid for my sins. We're even!

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post #10460 of 10830 Old 01-13-2017, 09:26 AM
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Apparently, the full 1:1 rip vs. main only issue is as contentious as reencoding or not. And toss in ISO vs MKV vs M2TS vs folder structure as well.

I personally don't care what others have settled on; the logic/decision tree that got them there is theirs. I do, as I have not been completely successful in hiding, get rankled when someone posts how great *their* way is implying or outright saying other ways are ... whatever.

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Apparently, the full 1:1 rip vs. main only issue is as contentious as reencoding or not. And toss in ISO vs MKV vs M2TS vs folder structure as well.

I personally don't care what others have settled on; the logic/decision tree that got them there is theirs. I do, as I have not been completely successful in hiding, get rankled when someone posts how great *their* way is implying or outright saying other ways are ... whatever.

Jeff
I don't think we are discussing to evangelize one method over another or convince other people to change their methods. It's just part of the whole idea of ripping and setting up your own digital media. Any choice comes with a lot of trade-offs no matter how you do it.

Honestly, I'd just love to be able to buy and stream/DL everything from VUDU or Amazon in lossless audio and high bit rate under the whole Ultraviolet/DMA system and not mess with another disc or server again. That quality deficit though that does exist sucks, especially if you have the system to exploit the quality of physical media.
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post #10462 of 10830 Old 01-13-2017, 01:24 PM
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I don't think we are discussing to evangelize one method over another or convince other people to change their methods.

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post #10463 of 10830 Old 01-13-2017, 02:19 PM
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That is not true... Having a "movie only" ripped ISO loads in 2-4 seconds on my Dunes as opposed to full ISO with menu and other extras take anywhere from 30-60 seconds to load. If I wanted the "wait time" and all the extras I would have kept my Oppos.
What I was referring to was the speed in which you can get to the main menu/movie from a rip vs playing it off the retail disc where the damn thing won't let you skip stuff you don't want to see. This is one thing that REALLY pissed me off. I bought your disc, let ME decide what I want to skip (or not)! :-)


For me (and apparently very few others) I actually want the option of the extra's should I decide I want to view them at some point. If all you care about is the main movie only with subs, then another work flow is in order! I tried the blu ray ripper.095 and found it VERY easy to to use. My two test discs were Iron Man 2 and Captain America Civil War. The latter apparently had some forced subs, so when I watch it this weekend, I will see if I used the program correctly!
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post #10464 of 10830 Old 01-13-2017, 03:10 PM
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I personally don't care what others have settled on; the logic/decision tree that got them there is theirs.
I agree completely with that and it also applies to ripping workflow as well. In my case, I rip main titles to BD.m2ts files because the players I used when I started ripping did not play BD.iso files and failed with half the .MKV files people made because MKV tools were still unrefined back then and player MKV support was spotty. After years of doing it this way my eco-system is well defined so I stick with it. Were I to start ripping today, I might do things differently, but it would all start with defining the file type my players were most compatible with. Everything would flow from that.

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post #10465 of 10830 Old 01-13-2017, 04:46 PM
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I do have an EE degree and still cannot add without a calculator. And my grammar and spelling are even worse.
I'm a math guy and we always knew engineers couldn't do math

Bill.
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post #10466 of 10830 Old 01-13-2017, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
I agree completely with that and it also applies to ripping workflow as well. In my case, I rip main titles to BD.m2ts files because the players I used when I started ripping did not play BD.iso files and failed with half the .MKV files people made because MKV tools were still unrefined back then and player MKV support was spotty. After years of doing it this way my eco-system is well defined so I stick with it. Were I to start ripping today, I might do things differently, but it would all start with defining the file type my players were most compatible with. Everything would flow from that.
This ^^. I have been doing media ripping for as many different formats. Started with Anime trading on VHS tape. Then moved into ripping Video_TS and burning on disc to play in disc players and single vob files on xbmp back in 2002. Then divx players came along started ripping stuff in AVI/DIVX as the VIDEO_TS disc could be hit and miss. Then ventured into .OGM to overcome the shortfalls of AVI. Then I want back to ISO files. Now I mostly stick with 1:1 MKV files unless I think the movie deserves more then I keep both the mkv file and the original 1:1 ISO file that is complete with everything. My main reason with sticking with MKV was player support for it is now better across the board then ISO support mostly forced subtitles. A lot of players got sloppy with ISO support and as I like to test new players MKV's for the most part always worked. Second I started using Plex as my back end to run jukeboxes as it has multiple player support and yes some of my players play untouched non-transcoded files from plex. While being able to maintain an on the road personal library.
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post #10467 of 10830 Old 01-14-2017, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Definitionally, for the detail-oriented among us, the "ripping" occurs when the copy protection is defeated and data is copied from the disk, be it stored as ISO, folder structure or immediately reduced to its essence, i.e. movie-only, lossless audio and subs if any.

For those of us who populate our servers with the "essence" of a Blu-ray, we really don't miss the "enjoyment" of full menus or all of the #%^* that comes along with a 1:1 rip.

Jeff
Amen. I can look at a disc and it's 36GB but the movie, lossless audio and subs are 28GB. Why waste 8GB on extra garbage. I like clicking the movie and it just plays. If I want to see the extras I can put in the disc. I can count on my 2 hands how many times I've cared about watching extras and even then it's only one time.
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post #10468 of 10830 Old 01-14-2017, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by halfelite View Post
This ^^. I have been doing media ripping for as many different formats. Started with Anime trading on VHS tape. Then moved into ripping Video_TS and burning on disc to play in disc players and single vob files on xbmp back in 2002. Then divx players came along started ripping stuff in AVI/DIVX as the VIDEO_TS disc could be hit and miss. Then ventured into .OGM to overcome the shortfalls of AVI. Then I want back to ISO files. Now I mostly stick with 1:1 MKV files unless I think the movie deserves more then I keep both the mkv file and the original 1:1 ISO file that is complete with everything. My main reason with sticking with MKV was player support for it is now better across the board then ISO support mostly forced subtitles. A lot of players got sloppy with ISO support and as I like to test new players MKV's for the most part always worked. Second I started using Plex as my back end to run jukeboxes as it has multiple player support and yes some of my players play untouched non-transcoded files from plex. While being able to maintain an on the road personal library.
My god, I thought I was the only one here who is that old to remember trading anime on VHS..guess not! (i'm 52) I played with MKV a lot when it first came out but always had issues with sync, sub titles, and sometimes the file just wouldn't play. Apparently I need to revisit MKV at some point as it seems to be extremely popular for a lot.

Also for those looking for a nice deal on a 8TB external drive, Fry's have one on sale this week for $169 ...
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post #10469 of 10830 Old 01-14-2017, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mecmec View Post
I played with MKV a lot when it first came out but always had issues with sync, sub titles, and sometimes the file just wouldn't play. Apparently I need to revisit MKV at some point as it seems to be extremely popular for a lot.
That was a problem with MKV 5-6 yr ago. It is now completely mainstream. The tools are refined and player support is very good. I still rip BD to BD.m2ts but all my TV series episodes on DVD are ripped to MKV.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #10470 of 10830 Old 01-14-2017, 09:55 AM
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@jasonkennethrose . Thanks for Blu-Ray Ripper. I just received 8 BD from Amazon. I ripped them 4 at a time and saved many trips to PC. Very clean and quick.
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