*Official* WD TV Live Streaming Media Player Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 06:18 PM
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Over on the WD community streaming forum, the two biggest complaints since the release of the newest firmware are:

1. No Dolby Digital sound at all through network shares (works fine through a media server or local storage)
2. No AVI sound at all through network shares (works fine through a media server or local storage)

I connected my laptop to the router with an ethernet cable, and it solved both issues. Both my boxes are still connected via wifi, but connecting the source of the video file (my laptop) with an ethernet cable to the network (the router) completely eliminated both issues. I can say with certainty that the two problems above are related to wifi.
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post #902 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 07:54 PM
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Hi guys,

I'm just looking into having 5.1 on my WDTV Live, with mpeg and M2TS files on my home theater setup. I know most mkvs have 5.1 since when I was converting them to mpegs and used to play them on my PS3, I still had 5.1. Now I'm looking in having 5.1 from my WDTV Live.

Here is how my setup is connected:

WDTV Live ----HDMI---- Denon 3311 -----HDMI------TV (or Epson projector)

In the WDTV Live Menu, only stereo gives me audio. When I select HDMI Passthrough, I have no sound. (Neither with Optical, but this would be normal, since I have no optical cable, right?)

Does this mean I need to hook up an optical cable from the WDTV Live to my Denon 3311?

Thanks for the help,
Fred
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post #903 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor_86 View Post

Hi guys,

I'm just looking into having 5.1 on my WDTV Live, with mpeg and M2TS files on my home theater setup. I know most mkvs have 5.1 since when I was converting them to mpegs and used to play them on my PS3, I still had 5.1. Now I'm looking in having 5.1 from my WDTV Live.

Here is how my setup is connected:

WDTV Live ----HDMI---- Denon 3311 -----HDMI------TV (or Epson projector)

In the WDTV Live Menu, only stereo gives me audio. When I select HDMI Passthrough, I have no sound. (Neither with Optical, but this would be normal, since I have no optical cable, right?)

Does this mean I need to hook up an optical cable from the WDTV Live to my Denon 3311?

Thanks for the help,
Fred

Try several other file types with HDMI passthrough selected. If any of them work, you are configured correctly. A lot of files are not playing audio over wifi setups. Try playing directly from an external hard drive through USB.
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post #904 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thevolumnus View Post

Over on the WD community streaming forum, the two biggest complaints since the release of the newest firmware are:

1. No Dolby Digital sound at all through network shares (works fine through a media server or local storage)
2. No AVI sound at all through network shares (works fine through a media server or local storage)

I connected my laptop to the router with an ethernet cable, and it solved both issues. Both my boxes are still connected via wifi, but connecting the source of the video file (my laptop) with an ethernet cable to the network (the router) completely eliminated both issues. I can say with certainty that the two problems above are related to wifi.

Your example and final config proves the SMP and it's WiFi are working fine.

Wifi has limited bandwidth and end-point throughput. I'm surprised anyone would even try to connect an audio-video "file server" to a network via WiFi and expect it to work.

Glad you worked out your problem.

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post #905 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 08:08 PM
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I'm already playing them with a Western Digital USB Drive plugged in my WDTV Live.

Edit: I will try a few mpegs.

From your lat spost thevolumnus, wdtvlive should support 5.1 with hdmi?
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post #906 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor_86 View Post

Hi guys,

I'm just looking into having 5.1 on my WDTV Live, with mpeg and M2TS files on my home theater setup. I know most mkvs have 5.1 since when I was converting them to mpegs and used to play them on my PS3, I still had 5.1. Now I'm looking in having 5.1 from my WDTV Live.

Here is how my setup is connected:

WDTV Live ----HDMI---- Denon 3311 -----HDMI------TV (or Epson projector)

In the WDTV Live Menu, only stereo gives me audio. When I select HDMI Passthrough, I have no sound. (Neither with Optical, but this would be normal, since I have no optical cable, right?)

Does this mean I need to hook up an optical cable from the WDTV Live to my Denon 3311?

Thanks for the help,
Fred

Nice amp

Your wiring is fine (amp in the middle ... with all input and output devices connected with only a HDMI cable).

From the manual:
After selecting Digital Pass Through via HDMI Only, select Auto Detect to have the media player detect receiver settings automatically.

Drop a MP3 file on a flash drive and plug it in. Do you get any sound?

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post #907 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor_86 View Post

... wdtvlive should support 5.1 with hdmi?

All my media that includes DD 5.1 or DTS bitstream light my Onkyo AVR properly and sound perfect.

Look back at my old posts. Rip a DD or DTS DVD, drop the VIDEO_TS folder on your USB HDD and see if it works.

Check your amp's programming. For the HDMI input that you are using for the SMP, make sure no SPDIF (optical or coaxial) ports are assigned to it also. Or, try another input port on the Denon.

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post #908 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla1856 View Post

Nice amp

Your wiring is fine (amp in the middle ... with all input and output devices connected with only a HDMI cable).

From the manual:
After selecting Digital Pass Through via HDMI Only, select Auto Detect to have the media player detect receiver settings automatically.

Drop a MP3 file on a flash drive and plug it in. Do you get get sound?

Let me check that real quick. Back in 5
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post #909 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcaley View Post

Yes, it does this with all 3 ways ive tried using the unit - network shares, dlna, usb

no amp. just wdtv to the tv

unfortunately, no other tv to try it on

this is pretty frustrating because this device is pretty nice.

For now, only play some MP3s from a flash drive connected to SMP.

Install latest firmware on TV and SMP.

Connect SMP to TV via HDMI.

Turn off WiFi and don't connect ethernet cable.

Does this work? Or, does the screen still flash?

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post #910 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 08:42 PM
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I changed it to HDMI Digital with Auto Detect and now my receiver gives me sound on DTS 6Cinema! But now my WDTV Live is having another unrelated issue, does not play files anymore?!? Will reboot and check.
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post #911 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor_86 View Post

I changed it to HDMI Digital with Auto Detect and now my receiver gives me sound on DTS 6Cinema!

Ok good ... sound works over HDMI.

Now, see my other post ... rip a VIDEO_TS folder and from a DD 5.1 or DTS DVD. Play this test from local USB storage.

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post #912 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 09:04 PM
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Problem fixed, probably just a bug. Video is now playing and I have DTS 6 Cinema with all original .mp4s and .mkvs. My converted .mpgs from MKV2VOB only work in stereo. I will then stop converting (Which was the inital goal of purchasing a WDTV Live, since it allows playback of MKV's.) Now what I am wondering is why my PS3 gave me a MULTI CHANNEL 5.1 on .mpgs that were converted from MKV's and not my WDTV Live (Only allows stereo).
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post #913 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla1856 View Post

Ok good ... PCM sound works over HDMI.

Now, see my other post ... rip a VIDEO_TS folder and from a DD 5.1 or DTS DVD. Play this test from local USB storage.

Mmmmm, I don't have any ripping softwares, and I only have original Blu-rays at home. Any other thests I can run? Btw, check my last post, it seems like DTS Cinema 6 is allowed on original movies I download without converting them.
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post #914 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thevolumnus View Post

You have zero credibility.

Let me get this straight: you say I'm lieing on WD's behalf (a notion stupid enough in and of itself already) but I prove you wrong, demonstrating for everyone to see that your accusation was totally baseless, and I am the one with zero credibility? What a spineless little man you are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yonder View Post

ah ha, no wonder, I was at wdtvforum.com. That place isn't so well attended.

At least over there people don't get wrongfully accused of being liars despite proving the opposite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WDFan1970 View Post

You two need to KNOCK IT OFF. If you want to carry on, do it in PM's.

Don't worry, there's no need to carry on. Thevolumnus said I was lieing but everybody can see that he's full of it. Since he's not man enough to admit it, I'll just killfilter him from now on so I don't have to read his whinings any longer. Good riddance.

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Things can only get better
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post #915 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 10:13 PM
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I'm going to refrain from calling him out again.

I still do not believe it's a network or bandwidth issue. That's just a WD copout perpetuated by those with a vested interest in promoting the product. The fact is, both AVI audio and Dolby Digital worked over wifi through network shares before the firmware update. Also, if it was merely a bandwidth issue, why can we stream 1080p over wifi through network shares but not a five second, standard definition AVI? Why does DTS work but not AC3? No, though the WD lackeys may wish it was a network issue so they can blame the consumer, it's clearly a WD development issue, and a ton of us will be returning the product if it isn't fixed.
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post #916 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor_86 View Post

Mmmmm, I don't have any ripping softwares, and I only have original Blu-rays at home. Any other thests I can run? Btw, check my last post, it seems like DTS Cinema 6 is allowed on original movies I download without converting them.

Well, DVDFab HD Decrypter is free.

The reason I wanted you to rip a DVD is it's easy and it's sure to prove that the SMP can send DD5.1 (AC3) or DTS bitstream directly to the Denon amp, over HDMI, for decoding there. The amp will show that DD or DTS is getting to the amp.

Plus, it's something you create from the original pressed DVD, so you know exactly what's inside and how it was made.

If you must use Internet downloads ... MKV is a good choice I guess. Run MediaInfo on them. Look at the audio track(s). If they say AC3 or DTS ... that is what the SMP should be sending to the amp ... at least that's what I'm seeing here.

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post #917 of 5169 Old 12-28-2011, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor_86 View Post

... seems like DTS Cinema 6 is allowed on original movies I download without converting them.

And yes, that sounds like the DTS bitstream is getting to the amp.

Thing is "DTS Cinema 6" sounds like a processed Listening Mode ... what the amp does with the bitstream after it gets to the amp. The amp likely has another set of smaller icons that show what it hitting the amps input ... they are usually something like PCM - DD - DTS plus the ones for Blu-Ray (DD-HD and DTS Master Audio).

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post #918 of 5169 Old 12-29-2011, 08:19 AM
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I just wanted to throw my $.02 in on the AVI audio issue. I just tried a half-dozen AVI's with both wired and wireless 802.11n network setup and they all played without a problem on firmware 1.05.18.

I'm connecting to a Netgear ReadyNAS via CIFS. I also created a share on a PC running Windows 7 x64 to test in case something with CIFS was letting my setup work with the NAS. I used the same files via wired, wireless, NAS and PC.

I'm not trying fan the flames, but apparently there is more to the issue. Perhaps there's incompatibilities with switches, routers, network cards, AVI encoding codecs...
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post #919 of 5169 Old 12-29-2011, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thevolumnus View Post

I'm going to refrain from calling him out again.

I still do not believe it's a network or bandwidth issue. That's just a WD copout perpetuated by those with a vested interest in promoting the product. The fact is, both AVI audio and Dolby Digital worked over wifi through network shares before the firmware update. Also, if it was merely a bandwidth issue, why can we stream 1080p over wifi through network shares but not a five second, standard definition AVI? Why does DTS work but not AC3? No, though the WD lackeys may wish it was a network issue so they can blame the consumer, it's clearly a WD development issue, and a ton of us will be returning the product if it isn't fixed.

Hmmm.. This is perplexing. Your post prompted me to try out the wifi capabilities of the WDTV SMP for the very first time. I detached my wired connection to the router and set the WDTV up using the wireless N facility instead.

I then set up a SAMBA share to my Acer Revo which is running a 64 bit build of Windows 7. I had the usual preamble where the WDTV would not initially see my share but this was again remedied by turning off, and then back on again, the share server function on the WDTV.

I then selected an AVI file for playback. After a couple of seconds pause it played back fine. VLC tells me this file had an MPEG-4 XVID video stream with an MPEG audio layer1/2/3 (mpga). This lit the PCM indicator on my Pioneer VSX-920 AV amp which is fed audio and video via HDMI. Video resolution for the file was 624 x 352.

I tried a second AVI file. Which also played back without any visible or audible issues. VLC says this file also had an MPEG-4 XVID video stream again at 624 x 352 with a frame rate of 23.976023. This time the audio layer was A52 Audio (aka AC3), Channels 3F2R/LFE. As you would expect this lit the Dolby Digital flag on my AV amp.

I then finished with an mpg file which VLC reported as MPEG 1/2 Video (mpgv) with a resolution of 720 x 576 at a framerate of 50fps. The audio was again A52 Audio (aka AC3), Channels 3F2R/LFE. As you would expect this again lit the Dolby Digital flag on my AV amp. It also played back without any problems.

Can you please confirm for me exactly which type of files aren't playing back properly for you via wireless and let me know the content of the video and audio streams?

I am currently running on version 1.05.18 of the firmware which I believe is the latest?

I understand this last issue of the firmware contained a fix for playback of video files containing Dolby Digital audio. Is your issue related to or addressed by this?

Regards,

Lt. Dang

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post #920 of 5169 Old 12-29-2011, 08:58 AM
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I am looking at grabbing one of these and I have a question, if I have all of my movies on a windows 7 network share with metadata and cover art in the format Windows Media Center recognizes, will the WD also recognize this metadata/art or will I need an entirely new setup of metadata/art for this?

Thanks
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post #921 of 5169 Old 12-29-2011, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctcousineau View Post

I just wanted to throw my $.02 in on the AVI audio issue. I just tried a half-dozen AVI's with both wired and wireless 802.11n network setup and they all played without a problem on firmware 1.05.18.

I'm connecting to a Netgear ReadyNAS via CIFS. I also created a share on a PC running Windows 7 x64 to test in case something with CIFS was letting my setup work with the NAS. I used the same files via wired, wireless, NAS and PC.

I'm not trying fan the flames, but apparently there is more to the issue. Perhaps there's incompatibilities with switches, routers, network cards, AVI encoding codecs...

Through no fault of your own, you have not been following the issue in this tread. No one stated that CIFS would not work via wifi. It is a samba issue. Not many regular joes use CIFS. AVI auido over Windows Network Shares (through Samba) does not work over wifi after the firmware update. Most people agree with this statement, but a few are claiming success.

You can stream avi through a media server.
You can play it through the USB port.
And now you are confirming it works via CIFS.

Good to know.
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post #922 of 5169 Old 12-29-2011, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Dang View Post

Hmmm.. This is perplexing. Your post prompted me to try out the wifi capabilities of the WDTV SMP for the very first time. I detached my wired connection to the router and set the WDTV up using the wireless N facility instead.

I then set up a SAMBA share to my Acer Revo which is running a 64 bit build of Windows 7. I had the usual preamble where the WDTV would not initially see my share but this was again remedied by turning off, and then back on again, the share server function on the WDTV.

I then selected an AVI file for playback. After a couple of seconds pause it played back fine. VLC tells me this file had an MPEG-4 XVID video stream with an MPEG audio layer1/2/3 (mpga). This lit the PCM indicator on my Pioneer VSX-920 AV amp which is fed audio and video via HDMI. Video resolution for the file was 624 x 352.

I tried a second AVI file. Which also played back without any visible or audible issues. VLC says this file also had an MPEG-4 XVID video stream again at 624 x 352 with a frame rate of 23.976023. This time the audio layer was A52 Audio (aka AC3), Channels 3F2R/LFE. As you would expect this lit the Dolby Digital flag on my AV amp.

I then finished with an mpg file which VLC reported as MPEG 1/2 Video (mpgv) with a resolution of 720 x 576 at a framerate of 50fps. The audio was again A52 Audio (aka AC3), Channels 3F2R/LFE. As you would expect this again lit the Dolby Digital flag on my AV amp. It also played back without any problems.

Can you please confirm for me exactly which type of files aren’t playing back properly for you via wireless and let me know the content of the video and audio streams?

I am currently running on version 1.05.18 of the firmware which I believe is the latest?

I understand this last issue of the firmware contained a fix for playback of video files containing Dolby Digital audio. Is your issue related to or addressed by this?

Regards,

Lt. Dang

I have tried every conceivable type of .avi file, dozens of them from different sources, none of them will play over samba through wifi. Are you completely wireless? Having my laptop connected to the router with a wire allowed me to play .avi's with sound. It's a problem isolated to COMPLETELY wireless networks. You will only be affected if you have NO WIRES AT ALL. When my laptop was connected to the router WITH A WIRE but both my WDTV boxes were still connected VIA WIFI, the audio issues did not exist Also, I have the libraries turned OFF on my WDTV boxes.
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post #923 of 5169 Old 12-29-2011, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by thevolumnus View Post


I have tried every conceivable type of .avi file, dozens of them from different sources, none of them will play over samba through wifi. Are you completely wireless? Having my laptop connected to the router with a wire allowed me to play .avi's with sound. It's a problem isolated to COMPLETELY wireless networks. You will only be affected if you have NO WIRES AT ALL. When my laptop was connected to the router WITH A WIRE but both my WDTV boxes were still connected VIA WIFI, the audio issues did not exist Also, I have the libraries turned OFF on my WDTV boxes.

No my Revo was wired to the router. The question that comes to mind is how would the WDTV know how the source device for the samba share was connected to the router? Since all the WDTV has is it's wireless connection only to the router itself and therefore would be unaffected by the type of connection for the source?

In any event, just to be sure, I disconnected the Cat5 cable from my Revo and used the internal wireless N card. I played the same files again as described above and obtained exactly the same problem free results?

Are you running on the latest firmware?

Regards,

Lt. Dang

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post #924 of 5169 Old 12-29-2011, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thevolumnus View Post

I have tried every conceivable type of .avi file, dozens of them from different sources, none of them will play over samba through wifi.

When my laptop was connected to the router WITH A WIRE but both my WDTV boxes were still connected VIA WIFI, the audio issues did not exist.

These statements are contradictory (some might even say opposite).

I've been following your posts, so I know the second statement is the true one. This proves the SMP is working properly. Thanks for posting your testing results.

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post #925 of 5169 Old 12-29-2011, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Dang View Post

No my Revo was wired to the router. The question that comes to mind is how would the WDTV know how the source device for the samba share was connected to the router? Since all the WDTV has is it's wireless connection only to the router itself and therefore would be unaffected by the type of connection for the source?

In any event, just to be sure, I disconnected the Cat5 cable from my Revo and used the internal wireless N card. I played the same files again as described above and obtained exactly the same problem free results?

Are you running on the latest firmware?

Regards,

Lt. Dang

Yes, I am on the newest firmware. And yes, it makes a huge difference if the source is wired. And... you are in the extreme minority. Almost no one can do what you are saying you can do. Here is the thread on the WD community forum. What type of mega router do you have anyway? .AVI audio worked for me on the old firmware, but .avi audio stopped working over networkshares (samba) via wifi after the last firmware revision. Reflashing the old firmware did not fix the problem.

http://community.wdc.com/t5/WD-TV-Li...ighlight/false
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post #926 of 5169 Old 12-29-2011, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Dang View Post

Hmmm.. This is perplexing. Your post prompted me to try out the wifi capabilities of the WDTV SMP for the very first time.

Nice work. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

MediaInfo is another good free program to look inside with.

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post #927 of 5169 Old 12-29-2011, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by thevolumnus View Post

And yes, it makes a huge difference if the source is wired.

Now you're getting it.

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Originally Posted by thevolumnus View Post

What type of mega router do you have anyway?

For under $50, you can buy a 8 port Gigabit switch. Connect your "file server" (hopefully it has a Gigabit NIC) and any other fast wired clients to it. Run a wire from it to the router.

Use the router to share the broadband Internet connection and connect/manage the WiFi access point. I use a current model (but inexpensive) Netgear router here.

If it's inconvenient for you to keep the laptop wired to the network ... have you thought about connecting a larger USB HDD to the SMP? Or, if you have an old XP machine ... just put it next to the switch, plug it in and share away. It could also be your backup in case something happens to the laptop ... What do you think?

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post #928 of 5169 Old 12-29-2011, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by thevolumnus View Post

Yes, I am on the newest firmware. And yes, it makes a huge difference if the source is wired. And... you are in the extreme minority. Almost no one can do what you are saying you can do. Here is the thread on the WD community forum. What type of mega router do you have anyway? .AVI audio worked for me on the old firmware, but .avi audio stopped working over networkshares (samba) via wifi after the last firmware revision. Reflashing the old firmware did not fix the problem.

http://community.wdc.com/t5/WD-TV-Li...ighlight/false

Hmmmm, well my network is nothing particularly special?

I am sure that people are genuinely reporting issues with this kind of playback. But then, as previously stated by others, people will make a point of reporting when they have a problem; they won’t bother to report when things are working fine for them?

If it works for me then I am sure it must be working for others and this conclusively demonstrates to me that this is not a solely WDTV related problem.

Also I think you missed a point in ctcousineau’s post where he said :-
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctcousineau View Post

I just wanted to throw my $.02 in on the AVI audio issue. I just tried a half-dozen AVI's with both wired and wireless 802.11n network setup and they all played without a problem on firmware 1.05.18.

I'm connecting to a Netgear ReadyNAS via CIFS. I also created a share on a PC running Windows 7 x64 to test in case something with CIFS was letting my setup work with the NAS. I used the same files via wired, wireless, NAS and PC.

I'm not trying fan the flames, but apparently there is more to the issue. Perhaps there's incompatibilities with switches, routers, network cards, AVI encoding codecs...

Looks like he has confirmed success with a samba share as well and not just with CIFS.

Regards,

Lt. Dang


EDIT:
Neglected to answer your question on my router?
It is just the bog standard free wireless router that came with my SKY broadband subscription? I can't imagine it is anything special if they threw it in with the broadband package?

It's life Jim..... But not as we know it.
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post #929 of 5169 Old 12-29-2011, 10:56 AM
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Just bought one of the new ones...But getting really bad, unwatchable video stutter with a 1080p mkv file over gig ethernet. Transfering to a USB HD now to test local playing. The stutter is so bad though, every 1 second. I know my i7 media center PC can keep up with that.

Ideas?

EDIT: Windows sharing seems to be the culprit on the WDTV live. I set up PS3 media server on my PC, and no stutter. Still trying to fix windows share.
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post #930 of 5169 Old 12-29-2011, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by thevolumnus View Post

I have tried every conceivable type of .avi file, dozens of them from different sources, none of them will play over samba through wifi. Are you completely wireless? Having my laptop connected to the router with a wire allowed me to play .avi's with sound. It's a problem isolated to COMPLETELY wireless networks. You will only be affected if you have NO WIRES AT ALL. When my laptop was connected to the router WITH A WIRE but both my WDTV boxes were still connected VIA WIFI, the audio issues did not exist Also, I have the libraries turned OFF on my WDTV boxes.

Ah, I didn't follow that it was completely wireless. I thought only the SMP was wireless. Possibly a driver issue on the laptop? I recall a while back my Dell laptop had horrible wifi data transfer rates to the ReadyNAS after installing Windows 7, while transfers to another Windows PC (XP, Vista and Win7) all were fine. I tracked down a driver from the wifi chipset manufacturer and speedy transfers returned.

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Through no fault of your own, you have not been following the issue in this tread. No one stated that CIFS would not work via wifi. It is a samba issue. Not many regular joes use CIFS. AVI auido over Windows Network Shares (through Samba) does not work over wifi after the firmware update. Most people agree with this statement, but a few are claiming success.

I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the details between Samba, SMB and CIFS. I thought Samba was open source that runs on Unix/Linux/MAC OS to emulate SMB to allow Windows clients to connect. From what I read on the interwebs CIFS and SMB are used synonymously, but haven't found a good definition of the differences. That's why I also tried on a Windows 7 PC.

I can try on a laptop if anyone thinks it might help confirm the issue. If it works, it won't help thevolumnus's problem, but perhaps we can help narrow down areas to try.
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