HiMedia HD900B Full 3D Media Streamer (Realtek 1186-based) - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1569 Old 12-31-2011, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

That is big news. I assume you mean the YAMJ/Eversion App, and not the hybrid YAMJ that other realtek players run

Now this I don't know if you head over to futeko site it's the first post and some screen shots. From what I can see it looks great!
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post #722 of 1569 Old 12-31-2011, 04:49 PM
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Hi guys (and gals if there are any),

I'd like to buy a Himedia 900B. I would be primarily using it for:

1. DVD isos
2. MKV's with 2D and 3D h.264, vc-1 and mpeg-2 video streams, 5.1 aac audio streams and .sup subtitles.

From what I gather, the DVD iso playback is flawless but the first page states that there are problems with mkv and subtitle playback. I would very much like to know if this applies to mkv's with .sup subtitles as well. If someone could test this out I would greatly appreciate it.

I will respond to PM's eventually, I swear.
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post #723 of 1569 Old 12-31-2011, 08:36 PM
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OllyP should join this forum as he's on the HiMedia Austrailian forum:
http://bbs.himedia.com.au/index.php?topic=714.15

It seems corky posted:
OllyP could you please look at the HDPRO-i6 firmware?
It appears to have a jukebox module. I have no programming knowledge but would it be possible to add this to your modded firmware?

http://bbs.hk-mst.com/firmware/DataS.../iX6-R6835.zip
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post #724 of 1569 Old 01-02-2012, 04:06 AM
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Updated to 1.10
Already several times a video stopped and the 900b shows " Video not supported "
Even happens to very basic .avi files.
Does anyone else have this problem ?
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post #725 of 1569 Old 01-02-2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

THe other half of the new AVCHD 2.0 standard is the 3D part that does 1080i60-3D in an MVC file. So far I've not seen any streaming player that plays this file and this bluray correctly in 3D. The Sony bluray player model BDP-S480 will play a bluray burned with this file in 3D, but will not play it by DLNA over the network.

Please test the HiMedia for playback over the lan from a DLNA server with the following MVC file which is from a Sony TD10 3D camcorder in 1080i60-3D.

Question: does it play correctly without stuttering in 3D when connected to a 3D TV by HDMI? If so, which TV did you use?

MVC File at this link:
http://st7.us/mvc-sample0011.mts



I know a bunch of people that would like to see this file and iso play correctly in 3D on a DLNA streaming player. The downloads are each approx 100M Bytes.

Quoting my own question, the first answer in the 3D avs forum is that himedia HD900b barfs and plays 3D files from Sony 3D camcorders incorrectly, only showing 2D. This in terrible for a box that is supposed to do 3D. Link to 3D forum thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21429074

I'm not buying a 900b.

Are there any other Realtek 1186 based boxes that can play these files (sample linked above) correctly in 3D??

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
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post #726 of 1569 Old 01-02-2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

Quoting my own question, the first answer in the 3D avs forum is that himedia HD900b barfs and plays 3D files from Sony 3D camcorders incorrectly, only showing 2D. This in terrible for a box that is supposed to do 3D. Link to 3D forum thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21429074

I'm not buying a 900b.

Are there any other Realtek 1186 based boxes that can play these files (sample linked above) correctly in 3D??

I wouldn't be surprised if it is a chip limitation

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post #727 of 1569 Old 01-02-2012, 11:54 AM
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New OEM FW from HiMedia

http://dl.himedia-tech.cn/HD900B/HD900_1.0.3.2.tar.gz

OllyP is working on adding the jukebox to this FW
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post #728 of 1569 Old 01-02-2012, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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So, they went from 1.0.1.13 to 1.0.3.2? The versioning seems a little odd. But, what the heck, I'll try it tonight.

HD Media Keen Videosaurus
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post #729 of 1569 Old 01-02-2012, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

I wouldn't be surprised if it is a chip limitation

Chip limitation - one reason to not buy it.

I notice the 1186 chip is advertised as being 4K capable, so it's possible better firmware might do the job to display video files from my Sony HDR-TD10 3D camcorder in 3D.

No description of the new firmware update 1.0.3.2 was included in the download link above

Playing 2D from a 3D file is terrible problem when you advertise full 3D. - bleh.

Deficient firmware and chip more limited than advertised - either one is the reason to not buy the 900b.

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post #730 of 1569 Old 01-02-2012, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

Chip limitation - one reason to not buy it.

I notice the 1186 chip is advertised as being 4K capable, so it's possible better firmware might do the job to display video files from my Sony HDR-TD10 3D camcorder in 3D.

No description of the new firmware update 1.0.3.2 was included in the download link above

Playing 2D from a 3D file is terrible problem when you advertise full 3D. - bleh.

Deficient firmware and chip more limited than advertised - either one is the reason to not buy the 900b.

My guess, the focus is on Blu-ray 3D (which is what many people are looking for, at least based on the target market of these players). In that respect it would seem these players come through, although with buggy fw

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post #731 of 1569 Old 01-02-2012, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

My guess, the focus is on Blu-ray 3D (which is what many people are looking for, at least based on the target market of these players). In that respect it would seem these players come through, although with buggy fw

According those on other parts of the forum, these realtek 1186 based players also have trouble playing 24p self authored 3D, produced with Sony Vegas software for example.

Then I also consider that 3D is now being produced in 48p frame rate by movies now in production. I would not want to plunk down all that money for something that only works on "some older" 3D content.

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
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post #732 of 1569 Old 01-02-2012, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

According those on other parts of the forum, these realtek 1186 based players also have trouble playing 24p self authored 3D, produced with Sony Vegas software for example.

Then I also consider that 3D is now being produced in 48p frame rate by movies now in production. I would not want to plunk down all that money for something that only works on "some older" 3D content.

Not making excuses for Realtek or HiMedia but from a media player standpoint the whole 3D thing is new (at least when you start talking about Blu-ray 3D, full 3D, etc...), so my approach is that currently any player that supports 3D is going to take a while to get mature hardware and firmware

Cheers,
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post #733 of 1569 Old 01-02-2012, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Not making excuses for Realtek or HiMedia but from a media player standpoint the whole 3D thing is new (at least when you start talking about Blu-ray 3D, full 3D, etc...), so my approach is that currently any player that supports 3D is going to take a while to get mature hardware and firmware

Agreed, but I'd not buy something if there was uncertainty that it would ever work. Example - Sony PS3 seems to be a dead end for 3D now since it's not playing back the files from the Sony camcorder in 3D, even though Sony made a big deal about pushing the PS3 as the best 3D player solution.

I Don't need any more dead ends that don't support today's content.

Today there is uncertainty about these realtek 1186 boxes. Already hearing about compatibility differences between the various 1186 based boxes.

Case in point, I read that the 900b isn't playing back 3D produced from Sony Vegas software, while the Iconbit XDS1003D (another Realtek 1186 based player) does play these correctly.

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
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post #734 of 1569 Old 01-02-2012, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post


Agreed, but I'd not buy something if there was uncertainty that it would ever work. Example - Sony PS3 seems to be a dead end for 3D now since it's not playing back the files from the Sony camcorder in 3D, even though Sony made a big deal about pushing the PS3 as the best 3D player solution.

I Don't need any more dead ends that don't support today's content.

Today there is uncertainty about these realtek 1186 boxes. Already hearing about compatibility differences between the various 1186 based boxes.

Case in point, I read that the 900b isn't playing back 3D produced from Sony Vegas software, while the Iconbit XDS1003D (another Realtek 1186 based player) does play these correctly.

i personally am waiting for the Sigma SMP8910 players and just view the realtek 1186 players as just a stopgap.

Cheers,
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post #735 of 1569 Old 01-02-2012, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

i personally am waiting for the Sigma SMP8910 players and just view the realtek 1186 players as just a stopgap.

Have you seen specs that show the Sigma chipset is better?

Will the Sigma players be from vendors who test their products more diligently?

Thanks for the info.

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
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post #736 of 1569 Old 01-03-2012, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

Have you seen specs that show the Sigma chipset is better?

Will the Sigma players be from vendors who test their products more diligently?

Thanks for the info.

In general (at least my opinion) Sigma is a better chip then Realtek. I would expect Dune and PCH to be the two manufacturers who come out with SMP8910 players the second half of 2012. Here is the info on the SMP8910

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/products.php?id=131

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post #737 of 1569 Old 01-03-2012, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

In general (at least my opinion) Sigma is a better chip then Realtek. I would expect Dune and PCH to be the two manufacturers who come out with SMP8910 players the second half of 2012. Here is the info on the SMP8910

http://www.sigmadesigns.com/products.php?id=131

I get the impression that the sigma chip may be more oriented toward players that play encrypted content, such as bluray optical, satellite boxes, and internet streaming video service.

The realtek chip may be more oriented toward user generated, recorded and organized content, a streaming video with less of an emphasis on encryption and licensing.

It all depends on how it's licensed. So far with the Realtek 1186, the approach seems to be for content where licensing restrictions are not applied.

"With Liberty, HDTV and Justice for all."
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post #738 of 1569 Old 01-03-2012, 03:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Not making excuses for Realtek or HiMedia but from a media player standpoint the whole 3D thing is new (at least when you start talking about Blu-ray 3D, full 3D, etc...), so my approach is that currently any player that supports 3D is going to take a while to get mature hardware and firmware

My oppo 93 has played every single 3D iso file I have thrown at it flawlessly! It can be done! Now, if only I could stream iso's over my network...
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post #739 of 1569 Old 01-03-2012, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

I get the impression that the sigma chip may be more oriented toward players that play encrypted content, such as bluray optical, satellite boxes, and internet streaming video service.

The realtek chip may be more oriented toward user generated, recorded and organized content, a streaming video with less of an emphasis on encryption and licensing.

It all depends on how it's licensed. So far with the Realtek 1186, the approach seems to be for content where licensing restrictions are not applied.

Yes and no. Sigma has mentioned that they may/will be subject to Cinavia, but as of now it would only apply to a SIgma player if it has a commercial blu ray license. Now granted this hasn't been followed and I would expect the main sigma players if it ever came down to would have a workaround (because simply put Cinavia wuould bring these guys to a halt if they had to implement).

Quote:
Originally Posted by streamerlover View Post

My oppo 93 has played every single 3D iso file I have thrown at it flawlessly! It can be done! Now, if only I could stream iso's over my network...

Part of the issue is realtek chips don't actually have a blu ray license, and I think many of the issues encountered are do to this (as opposed to the Oppo)

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post #740 of 1569 Old 01-03-2012, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streamerlover View Post

My oppo 93 has played every single 3D iso file I have thrown at it flawlessly! It can be done! Now, if only I could stream iso's over my network...

The oppo 93 isn't playing the 3D files from the Sony Camcorder. I contacted them back in October about this. I suspect the Oppo's Marvel chips can't do 1080i60-3D.

The oppo costs $500 and won't play this 3D file in 3D.

A sony BDP-S480 costs $89 and will play this file.

As you said, the Oppo isn't playing 3D isos in 3D from a lan based source. This seems to be a licensing issue, so that it will never do this until when and if the licensing changes to let them do this.

Playing 3D bluray over lan is where the Realtek 1186 based players Himedia seems to have an advantage, in the eyes of the consumer that doesn't want to fuss with licensing restrictions for the content they purchase or generate themselves.

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post #741 of 1569 Old 01-04-2012, 08:57 AM
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I checked out that mts 3D file on my mac with mediainfo. There are two video tracks in the one container. Interesting. I wonder what soc chip the sony BDP-S480 uses. I wonder what other 3D mts/m2ts file cause the Realtek 1186 to choke on or reaches its limitations for decoding??
I think, there are two types of full HD 1080p 3D: Commercial Bluray Profile 5 and consumer AVCHD 3D Progressive/ 2.0. Any new media player that has the Full HD 1080p Bluray 3D will also need the new AVCHD 3D Progressive/ 2.0 support. I thought I saw a way to remux/ convert AVCHD to Bluray BDMV structor for compatibility options. Maybe MultiAVCHD has an option to convert the 3D mts file to be compatible for proper Bluray 3D playback on the 900B?
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post #742 of 1569 Old 01-04-2012, 02:00 PM
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does 900b support external bd-drive via sata/usb playing bd-r/hd-dvd/dvd/vcd/acd flawlessly?
also does this player support free streaming of live sports/movies in either realtek/android bootup?
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post #743 of 1569 Old 01-04-2012, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theaxledentaldj View Post

I checked out that mts 3D file on my mac with mediainfo. There are two video tracks in the one container. Interesting. I wonder what soc chip the sony BDP-S480 uses. I wonder what other 3D mts/m2ts file cause the Realtek 1186 to choke on or reaches its limitations for decoding??
I think, there are two types of full HD 1080p 3D: Commercial Bluray Profile 5 and consumer AVCHD 3D Progressive/ 2.0. Any new media player that has the Full HD 1080p Bluray 3D will also need the new AVCHD 3D Progressive/ 2.0 support. I thought I saw a way to remux/ convert AVCHD to Bluray BDMV structor for compatibility options. Maybe MultiAVCHD has an option to convert the 3D mts file to be compatible for proper Bluray 3D playback on the 900B?

Here's some details.

The bluray 3D spec for optical disks includes the MVC (mult-view-codec). This is two or more views of the same scene in one stream. 3D is two views. MVC puts it in one stream.

A non-multi-view (non-MVC) compatible decoder is a non-3D decoder, which is a 2D decoder, such as an AVC decoder.

MVC achieves backwards compatibility with 2D decoders since the 2D decoder will decode one stream, and ignore the other one. The second stream is coded to look like extra information that the 2D decoder can ignore.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiview_Video_Coding

The stream for the second is coded as differences to the first eye stream. This results in a much more efficient use of bandwidth in the stream since only the differences for the 2nd eye need to be coded. The stream for the second eye is not separately coded, only the differences. This is much more efficient than separately including two individual streams, which the use of MVC avoids.

Both commercial bluray disks and this Sony camcorder use this MVC coding method for their 3D. So in that aspect, the file sample here is the same as commercial bluray.

The difference is in the frame rate. Commercial bluray 3D is either 1080p24-3D or 720p60-3D. That's what 3D bluray players are specified to support.

The camcorder 3D is 1080i60-3D. Notice the i for interlace instead of the p. All movies are progressive, usually 24p. The interlace method is used to portray motion better at lower bandwidth. It doubles the perceived frame rate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlaced_video

This new spec of 1080i60-3D is part of the AVCHD 2.0 spec. There is another new thing in that which is 1080p60-2D. Back on pages 14-16 of this thread another user had 1080p60-2D files tested on the Himedia 900B and they worked ok.

Note Panasonic and JVC camcorders also do AVCHD 2.0 2D and 3D, not just Sony.

That 1080p60-2D, that is proven to work on the HiMedia 900B, uses the same HDMI bandwidth as the 1080i60-3D, so I believe that the only reason why the HiMedia 900B isn't doing my 3D is that the chip vendor has to write a profile (firmware) to handle that format. I do not think it the chip is limited to not do it, since it's already doing MVC, and doing 1080p60-2D.

As far as I can tell, AVCHD 2.0 is not a spec for how to put the files on a disk. The Sony software called PMB version 5.8 will write the AVCHD 2.0 files that originated from a Sony Camcorder to a BD-R disk, and that disk will play only in the Sony BDP-Sx80 (x= 4 5 6) players. No other player will play those disks. Sony might be using a custom file format for the disk. The disks I wrote with PMB 5.8, with the same sample file as the one above in content, was imaged and is available for download here at the link next. I do not give any priority to playing the content from that disk, since there is no menu structure that I can program, and it would be most useful to simply be able to stream these files from a library of files on a local or network accessed hard drive.

Sony AVCHD 2.0 Bluray iso at this link:
http://st7.us/y11_06-05_5-14-45PM.rar

3D stand alone separate MVC File (not inside an iso) is at this link:
http://st7.us/mvc-sample0011.mts

There are many buyers lined up and ready to buy these Realtek 1186 based players like the HiMedia 900 series if they add 1080i60-3D support, that would not buy one without it.

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post #744 of 1569 Old 01-04-2012, 03:11 PM
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Richard,

Interesting analysis, but, I think the issue is not the frame rate.

I still think the problem is firmware related, particularly, just container (M2TS / MTS) parsing.

For 3D playback, the SDK is probably looking for the SSIF file which contains the second view (Truly short sighted decision by the Blu-ray profile makers to keep the second stream in a separate file, but they were probably limited by what the existing players would need to do to be able to play back the 2D stream in a 3D video -- and they achieve that by ignoring the SSIF folder).

Realtek need to fix the SDK (or HiMedia needs to fix firmware) for the case where the second stream is included within that container itself.

Btw, thanks for the link to the sample. I have added it to our test suite.

Ganesh T S
Sr. Editor, AnandTech Inc.
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post #745 of 1569 Old 01-04-2012, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal View Post

Richard,

Interesting analysis, but, I think the issue is not the frame rate.

I still think the problem is firmware related, particularly, just container (M2TS / MTS) parsing.

For 3D playback, the SDK is probably looking for the SSIF file which contains the second view (Truly short sighted decision by the Blu-ray profile makers to keep the second stream in a separate file, but they were probably limited by what the existing players would need to do to be able to play back the 2D stream in a 3D video -- and they achieve that by ignoring the SSIF folder).

Realtek need to fix the SDK (or HiMedia needs to fix firmware) for the case where the second stream is included within that container itself.

Btw, thanks for the link to the sample. I have added it to our test suite.

Actually the SSIF files are MVC. So its not a different case when the 2nd view is in the same file. Commercial blu rays use MVC. The SSIF folder / file structure shares the same files located elsewhere, something I read. It's a goofy file structure. (Are there any 3D cartoons with Goofy) ?

It might be case where 3D is only turned on when a bluray iso structure is present. This would seem to be a bad approach. For MVC, the determining factor for decoding two views is if the file has two views in it, and the file descriptors should declare that.

We've already heard that the current firmware isn't playing (converting) full SBS or full top bottom 3D content to frame packed hdmi output. I think this also needs some improvement. Most monitors will convert Half SBS to a 3D display, and the Himedia would shine if it converted the full versions of this to frame pack 3D.

The answer to determine if the iso needs to be present would be found by testing if the existing ssif files ripped from a 3D bluray will play in 3D on the current Himedia firmware when they stand alone without the iso and its folder structure.

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post #746 of 1569 Old 01-04-2012, 04:54 PM
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Hi guys (and gals if there are any),

I'd like to buy a Himedia 900B. I would be primarily using it for:

1. DVD isos
2. MKV's with a 2D or 3D video stream in either h.264, vc-1 or mpeg-2 format, a 5.1 AAC audio stream and .sup subtitles.

From what I gather, the DVD iso playback is flawless but the first page states that there are problems with mkv and subtitle playback. I would very much like to know if this applies to mkv's with .sup subtitles as well. If someone could test this out I would greatly appreciate it.

Anyone?

I will respond to PM's eventually, I swear.
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post #747 of 1569 Old 01-04-2012, 06:04 PM
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Richard, what happens if (or anyone with a 900B) you make that 3D mts file into a BDMV blu-ray structor with a SSIF folder? Like if you renamed the 2 video streamed 3D mts container (mvc-sample0011.mts) to mvc-sample0011.ssif?
I was hoping someone with a HiMedia 900B would tinker for me. What would happen if the 900B tries to play just a ssif file? Or mess with the BDMV of a 3D movie and try to make a 3D Main movie only BDMV ISO?
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post #748 of 1569 Old 01-05-2012, 03:14 AM
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As mentioned a friend in the futeko forum the Thumbgen program works for the 900B . Is there any familiar program like that ?
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post #749 of 1569 Old 01-05-2012, 02:01 PM
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does 900b support external bd-drive via sata/usb playing bd-r/hd-dvd/dvd/vcd/acd flawlessly?
also does this player support free streaming of live sports/movies in either realtek/android bootup?

hey ne1 checkd this
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post #750 of 1569 Old 01-05-2012, 02:03 PM
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hey ne1 checkd this

blu ray and hd dvd would not work, himedia does not have a license. dont know about dvds

Cheers,
Damian

MSS.net blog (contributing editor) - http://www.mediasmartserver.net

Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP 2010-2012

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