HiMedia HD900B Full 3D Media Streamer (Realtek 1186-based) - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 1569 Old 02-24-2012, 07:26 AM
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Well then does it work by magic?

I have a 3D BD player here that has never been connected to the internet. As far as I can see the disks's menu structure is identical when I play the disk on it or my OPPO or my PS3 ( although the user interface of the PS3 is a bit awkward compared to a set top player.) There is only one part of the blu Ray menu structure that IS missing and that is BD-Live, and/or Bonus material. ( your reference to BD-J ). Other than that I don't agree that the menus on BluRay disks require an internet connection to work. I believe that a media player with a properly written firmware, not licensed, could access the menu structure on the disk that was ripped to an iso file or play the folder structure ( either way) and do it perfectly. In fact, other than a security feature being missing the firmware could also access BD-Live. Obviously, I would not recommend this if you guys are ripping content from copyrighted media. Again, my only interest is in playing my own 3D productions with the menus I create in Power Director Ultra v10. There is no BD-Live to be concerned with.
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As far as the license status of HiMedia, they are NOT a BDA licensed company so any products they make will not be able to play/display the full menus.

nikonf5- I don't agree. I think the only reason they have not done it is they don't know how or they haven't placed any importance on it. Technically it is possible and since they have no license agreement on BD players, making a file reader is no different than the other readers of copyrighted files they have already done. They are beyond the reach of BDA but blu Ray disk players being licensed are not. It's just a legal issue for them. For HiMedia I believe it is just a matter of writing the proper code and putting it into a firmware upgrade. ( unless the code is too big and won't fit.) Might then require a hardware upgrade.
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post #1172 of 1569 Old 02-24-2012, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I believe that a media player with a properly written firmware, not licensed, could access the menu structure on the disk that was ripped to an iso file or play the folder structure ( either way) and do it perfectly.

Don't know enough about licenses and menus, but I do know the Popcorn Hour A-300 (which doesn't have a full BD license like the C-300) supports full menus on BD-ISO's or homemade AVCHD titles.

Re: the HD900B, I just ordered (re-ordered I should say) an Oppo BDP-93. With the latest Scorpions 3D concert disc w/o chapters and others where I really wished for a menu, I missed my original BDP-93, which I'd returned to Amazon after getting the HD900B. Also, my HD900B is having issues recognizing both USB ports at the same time, locking up after booting up or after playing a title & trying to play another.

Re: the removal of the ISO feature on the Oppo, as I plan to stick to the December 2011 firmware w/ISO support, if any future Blu-ray title gives me issues, I'll just rip it via AnyDVD HD's new Speed Menu option. Most issues w/new discs seem to be with menus and BD-Java anyway. Long term, I have my fingers crossed on a proper 3D streamer with a Sigma chip.

HD Media Keen Videosaurus
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post #1173 of 1569 Old 02-24-2012, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

nikonf5- I don't agree. I think the only reason they have not done it is they don't know how or they haven't placed any importance on it. Technically it is possible and since they have no license agreement on BD players, making a file reader is no different than the other readers of copyrighted files they have already done. They are beyond the reach of BDA but blu Ray disk players being licensed are not. It's just a legal issue for them. For HiMedia I believe it is just a matter of writing the proper code and putting it into a firmware upgrade. ( unless the code is too big and won't fit.) Might then require a hardware upgrade.

Remember that, unlike the case of DVD's, the official Blu-Ray spec does not allow an encryption-intact ISO to be made of an official studio encrypted Blu-Ray disk.

Why would they make it so and what difference would it make if an unencrypted disk could still have full functionality ?
Because you cant play the menus without the encryption being intact.

As far as demand, there is a huge demand in the Asian market for a hw solution that could play BD ISO's exactly as if they were discs and for obvious reasons that I cant mention.

What I said in my previous post can be easily disproved by the existence of any player from an unlicensed company that can play any un-modified Blu-Ray ISO file and show the full menus.

I dont want to hijack this thread so I will make it my last post on the topic.

I read updates on this thread every day in the hopes that HiMedia or someone else may solve this issue inspite of already having bought a 93 so I hope you are right but all the evidence points the other way.
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post #1174 of 1569 Old 02-24-2012, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post

Don't know enough about licenses and menus, but I do know the Popcorn Hour A-300 (which doesn't have a full BD license like the C-300) supports full menus on BD-ISO's or homemade AVCHD titles.

Thats because the company that makes it has a license so they are using that license to read the menus on all their devices.
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post #1175 of 1569 Old 02-24-2012, 06:37 PM
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Here's an update on the testing I have done. I have now looked at the 23.976Hz motion pattern at both 24Hz and 60Hz, and confirm that there is stuttering at both rates. It is interesting to note, though, that it is very difficult to see the stutter when the pattern is displayed at 60Hz, because the jitter due to the 3:2 cadence dominates what you see, so the additional jitter due to the once per 42-second frame repeat is barely noticeable. I needed to capture it on video to make sure it was there. This explains why people with 120Hz 3D (aka 60Hz er eye) don't see it.

So, one more download for anyone who cares. I've captured the stutter at both 24Hz and 60Hz into short MJPEG clips with a high-speed camera. I suggest using Quicktime to view them as it can pause and advance frame-by-frame accurately with these files. The text file explains where the stutter occurs. At high speeds like this, the stutter simply looks like a pause in the stream (and that's exactly what it is - the 24Hz buffer runs out after 1000 frames and simply repeats the last frame it had).

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post #1176 of 1569 Old 02-24-2012, 07:35 PM
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I just came on here to ask you if you have experienced any stutter at all on 60Hz, and you just answered my question for me. Do you get this stutter on your popcorn hour player at 60Hz? You mention that you get no stutter at 23.976 on your popcorn hour, so how is it at 60Hz?

This is very disappointing to hear. It appears to me, based on both my own observations of 23.976 material, and your results, that the Micca/Himedia is not capable of correct playback at any framerate. I was hoping that 60Hz would at least be a "safe" video mode, without the worry of stutter. Apparently that is not the case.

I believe at this point that I may start looking at an alternative, most likely a Dune, though I am limited in money which is why this player seemed like such a good choice. But what good is it if it can't play anything without stutter?
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post #1177 of 1569 Old 02-24-2012, 07:50 PM
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I have both the 900b and a dune 3.0. A couple of friends have dunes too.The 900b is crap and hate the on/off bug on my 900b--the 900b is a peice of crap.I am waiting on dune to release a 3d version then the 900b is gone and its only good as a stop gap.My dune plays everything fine and has from day one.

I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken
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post #1178 of 1569 Old 02-24-2012, 08:18 PM
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I'm strongly leaning to that conclusion as well. I hate to spend what it still costs for a Dune Smart D1, especially since I will have no 3D playback other than basic sbs, but I need a player now, not in 6 or 8 months. And when the new Dunes do come out, it's almost certain I won't be able to afford one anyways. Plus there's some concern regarding Cinavia support with the Dunes. That was a great thing about this player - no Cinavia to worry about later.

The Dune Smart D1 doesn't support 3D playback, but from everything I hear, what it does do, it does correctly. It seems to me that nothing this Micca/Himedia does is correct. I don't know if all these 1186 players were all just rushed to market unfinished to beat each other, or if the 1186 chip is just crap, but either way, I've just about had enough. I'm still within my return period at Amazon and I'll be damned if I'm going to keep a unit as buggy as this with no guarantee of any fixes.
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post #1179 of 1569 Old 02-24-2012, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

I'm strongly leaning to that conclusion as well. I hate to spend what it still costs for a Dune Smart D1, especially since I will have no 3D playback other than basic sbs, but I need a player now, not in 6 or 8 months. And when the new Dunes do come out, it's almost certain I won't be able to afford one anyways. Plus there's some concern regarding Cinavia support in the new Dunes, which gives me pause.

The Dune Smart D1 doesn't support 3D playback, but from everything I hear, what it does do, it does correctly. It seems to me that nothing this Micca/Himedia does is correct. I don't know if all these 1186 players were all just rushed to market unfinished to beat each other, or if the 1186 chip is just crap, but either way, I've just about had enough. I'm still within my return period at Amazon and I'll be damned if I'm going to keep a unit as buggy as this with no guarantee of any fixes.

Can't agree more, I stepped unto the dune duo and this player rocks! And the reason is? It just works!
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post #1180 of 1569 Old 02-24-2012, 10:20 PM
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My Dune D1 will be here Monday .

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post #1181 of 1569 Old 02-25-2012, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post

Don't know enough about licenses and menus, but I do know the Popcorn Hour A-300 (which doesn't have a full BD license like the C-300) supports full menus on BD-ISO's or homemade AVCHD titles.

Re: the HD900B, I just ordered (re-ordered I should say) an Oppo BDP-93. With the latest Scorpions 3D concert disc w/o chapters and others where I really wished for a menu, I missed my original BDP-93, which I'd returned to Amazon after getting the HD900B. Also, my HD900B is having issues recognizing both USB ports at the same time, locking up after booting up or after playing a title & trying to play another.

Re: the removal of the ISO feature on the Oppo, as I plan to stick to the December 2011 firmware w/ISO support, if any future Blu-ray title gives me issues, I'll just rip it via AnyDVD HD's new Speed Menu option. Most issues w/new discs seem to be with menus and BD-Java anyway. Long term, I have my fingers crossed on a proper 3D streamer with a Sigma chip.

I think we're pretty much on the same page:
I have the PCH A210 but was quite disappointed when I learned that it would not do 3D. Currently I have my legacy of TV shows ( I produced ), nearly all 2DSD on it. I had the OPPO BD-93 long before they released the app for iso playback but when I got word that they would be removing it, I disconnected it from the internet to avoid that feature from being removed. I only bought the 900B because it could do 3D iso and for that it does well except for the menu driven iso files. So, I will keep my OPPO disconnected from the internet and even when it no longer plays the latest BD-J disks, I will just buy a new player for disks at that time. But as far as the 900B is concerned, I have no complaints on it's performance. For some reason a few here are very upset that their 900b hiccups every 42 seconds. I don't have that problem with mine as it plays very well as tested with the test video. I do complain that the interface seems to be a bit of a kludge but I'm getting used to it and as I learn the way to navigate it, life is easier. I am quite pleased with the 3D quality from it when playing content from the internal 2Tb 5900RPM hard drive.
So, that's my strategy for the near future. Keep the OPPO BD-93 off line and for 3D content with menus. Use the 900B for more 3D content that doesn't use menus. Use the PCH A210 for misc content, photos and music. Buy a new 3D blu Ray Player ( considering a Sony at this time for 3DBD commercial movies.)
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post #1182 of 1569 Old 02-25-2012, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post


I think we're pretty much on the same page:
I have the PCH A210 but was quite disappointed when I learned that it would not do 3D. Currently I have my legacy of TV shows ( I produced ), nearly all 2DSD on it. I had the OPPO BD-93 long before they released the app for iso playback but when I got word that they would be removing it, I disconnected it from the internet to avoid that feature from being removed. I only bought the 900B because it could do 3D iso and for that it does well except for the menu driven iso files. So, I will keep my OPPO disconnected from the internet and even when it no longer plays the latest BD-J disks, I will just buy a new player for disks at that time. But as far as the 900B is concerned, I have no complaints on it's performance. For some reason a few here are very upset that their 900b hiccups every 42 seconds. I don't have that problem with mine as it plays very well as tested with the test video. I do complain that the interface seems to be a bit of a kludge but I'm getting used to it and as I learn the way to navigate it, life is easier. I am quite pleased with the 3D quality from it when playing content from the internal 2Tb 5900RPM hard drive.
So, that's my strategy for the near future. Keep the OPPO BD-93 off line and for 3D content with menus. Use the 900B for more 3D content that doesn't use menus. Use the PCH A210 for misc content, photos and music. Buy a new 3D blu Ray Player ( considering a Sony at this time for 3DBD commercial movies.)

Keep in consideration any player you pick up after Feb 2012 will be infected with cinavia !
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post #1183 of 1569 Old 02-25-2012, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by diablozoe View Post

Keep in consideration any player you pick up after Feb 2012 will be infected with cinavia !

I don't think thats completely correct. I believe if the player was made after that date, its supposed to have cinavia.

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post #1184 of 1569 Old 02-25-2012, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by diablozoe View Post

Keep in consideration any player you pick up after Feb 2012 will be infected with cinavia !

Where's the source of this information? When you say "infected" Doesn't this only affect AACS licensed players such as Dune? Or are you going off the Verance press release from some time ago?
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post #1185 of 1569 Old 02-25-2012, 03:02 PM
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Where's the source of this information? When you say "infected" Doesn't this only affect AACS licensed players such as Dune? Or are you going off the Verance press release from some time ago?

My understanding is that Cinavia will only affect players that are commercial blu ray players (which is why many of the current media streamers shouldn't be affected since they don't act as a commercial player).

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post #1186 of 1569 Old 02-25-2012, 03:05 PM
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I don't think thats completely correct. I believe if the player was made after that date, its supposed to have cinavia.

Cinavia is not a hardware implement. What I have stated is what I read. And if the player does not have it then as soon as you update the FW your gonna have it!
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post #1187 of 1569 Old 02-25-2012, 03:07 PM
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Where's the source of this information? When you say "infected" Doesn't this only affect AACS licensed players such as Dune? Or are you going off the Verance press release from some time ago?

Google. And it's unknown for sure about the Dune, but there was some speculation about the 8910. Now I'm not saying Dune will ever have cinavia but it's been speculated!
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post #1188 of 1569 Old 02-25-2012, 03:30 PM
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My understanding is that Cinavia will only affect players that are commercial blu ray players (which is why many of the current media streamers shouldn't be affected since they don't act as a commercial player).

That's what I thought, thanks dbone1026.

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Google. And it's unknown for sure about the Dune, but there was some speculation about the 8910. Now I'm not saying Dune will ever have cinavia but it's been speculated!

What do you mean "unknown" about the Dune. You just said any player....I think the Dune will be the first to be forced to implement it if they want to hold on to their licenses. Your posts are very misleading.
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I guess, I won't be updating my FW at all

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That's what I thought, thanks dbone1026.

What do you mean "unknown" about the Dune. You just said any player....I think the Dune will be the first to be forced to implement it if they want to hold on to their licenses. Your posts are very misleading.

Dude do some research! Nothing I have said is misleading the cinavia info is related to another poster saying he would just purchase a player for 3D w/menus, as for media players it's not known what's gonna happen when cinavia is mandatory big players like PCH, Oppo an Dune stand to loose allot of money! The 8910 is thought to implement cinavia and when I talked to Mike at duneplayer he said that he thinks it would not be a issue!
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All licensed players are required to have Cinavia as of Feb. 2012. My Samsung blu-ray player got Cinavia in a recent update. I'm concerned myself regarding Cinavia and the Dunes. I'm not very happy with my Micca/Himedia, and I am considering a Dune Smart D1. I fear that may eventually get Cinavia in an update, but nobody seems to know if it will actually happen.
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post #1192 of 1569 Old 02-25-2012, 11:31 PM
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Keep in consideration any player you pick up after Feb 2012 will be infected with cinavia !

Not worried as I get a flu shot every year! Shouldn't "infect" me.
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post #1193 of 1569 Old 02-26-2012, 12:02 AM
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For those who haven't read my other posts here, you won't understand the logic behind my above attempt at humor. Here's an explanation--

Reminder- My use here is to only play my own content I created. While Cinavia may bother those of you who are ripping copyrighted media, I have no need to do that. I rent most of my movies from Blockbuster moviepass and can get 2 per day far cheaper than ripping any of those. I can afford to buy all my 3D BD, a couple a month, so that is not an issue either.
I don't care if a new 3DBD player has Cinavia or not as it won't affect me. ( or "infect" if you prefer )
My HiMedia 900B is playing content just fine ( no stuttering or other problems at all) but in some cases without menus some of MY production value is lost. So, I have my OPPO BD-93 with connected hard drive of MY content to handle the menu driven stuff I have created in Power Director. I realize that maybe some day, that OPPO BD-93 maybe unable to play new disk content as it is not connected to the internet for updates. I also have a PS3 that is connected and can always use that to play those Cinavia "infected" movies.

I'm not sure I completely follow the logic behind the Dune option. As I understand it won't, by design, play 3D. So what good is that? For elegance, the PCH A210 has a nice display but it won't do 3D either, however, I believe it is lower cost and smaller than the Dune. The PCH A210 will go out to IMDB and download some info page for those of you interested in ripping your content. For Me, I can create that page too on the drive and have it display a similar info page but that is a lot of work. I just use the folder list. But the images thumbnails are a nice option.
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HokeySmoke, if you play 23.976 content on your Popcorn Hour A-110, you mention you get no stutter. Is that for both 1080p@23.976 and 1080p@24.000,or just at 1080p@23.976? I'm wondering if, using that or the Dune Smart D1, if I were to play a 23.976 video, would I need to select 1080p@23.976 specifically to play smoothly or would 1080p@24.000 also play with no stutter?
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post #1195 of 1569 Old 02-26-2012, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

All licensed players are required to have Cinavia as of Feb. 2012. My Samsung blu-ray player got Cinavia in a recent update. I'm concerned myself regarding Cinavia and the Dunes. I'm not very happy with my Micca/Himedia, and I am considering a Dune Smart D1. I fear that may eventually get Cinavia in an update, but nobody seems to know if it will actually happen.

I personally am not worried about the current SMARTs getting Cinavia. Also, keep in mind it can't be forced on your player, so ultimate worse case scenario you just don't upgrade your FW. Now whether or not new Dune players that come out down the road will have Cinavia is another thing. However, keep one very important thing in mind, Cinavia would pretty much kill off the Dune players, so it is in the interest of HDI Dune to ensure there is a work around/alternative...

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For those who haven't read my other posts here, you won't understand the logic behind my above attempt at humor. Here's an explanation--

Reminder- My use here is to only play my own content I created. While Cinavia may bother those of you who are ripping copyrighted media, I have no need to do that. I rent most of my movies from Blockbuster moviepass and can get 2 per day far cheaper than ripping any of those. I can afford to buy all my 3D BD, a couple a month, so that is not an issue either.
I don't care if a new 3DBD player has Cinavia or not as it won't affect me. ( or "infect" if you prefer )
My HiMedia 900B is playing content just fine ( no stuttering or other problems at all) but in some cases without menus some of MY production value is lost. So, I have my OPPO BD-93 with connected hard drive of MY content to handle the menu driven stuff I have created in Power Director. I realize that maybe some day, that OPPO BD-93 maybe unable to play new disk content as it is not connected to the internet for updates. I also have a PS3 that is connected and can always use that to play those Cinavia "infected" movies.

I'm not sure I completely follow the logic behind the Dune option. As I understand it won't, by design, play 3D. So what good is that? For elegance, the PCH A210 has a nice display but it won't do 3D either, however, I believe it is lower cost and smaller than the Dune. The PCH A210 will go out to IMDB and download some info page for those of you interested in ripping your content. For Me, I can create that page too on the drive and have it display a similar info page but that is a lot of work. I just use the folder list. But the images thumbnails are a nice option.

It really is personal preference. IMO the Dunes are a lot more stable then the PCH when it comes to playback. The PCH internal jukebox (NMJ) is mostly crap, the A200 series cannot downmix TrueHD, etc... Don't get my wrong, the PCH is a fine player (I have an A200 and A300 in my house), but there is a reason why the 2 Dunes in my house are the ones that get used every day.

Cheers,
Damian

MSS.net blog (contributing editor) - http://www.mediasmartserver.net

Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP 2010-2012

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post #1196 of 1569 Old 02-26-2012, 06:48 AM
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I personally am not worried about the current SMARTs getting Cinavia. Also, keep in mind it can't be forced on your player, so ultimate worse case scenario you just don't upgrade your FW. Now whether or not new Dune players that come out down the road will have Cinavia is another thing. However, keep one very important thing in mind, Cinavia would pretty much kill off the Dune players, so it is in the interest of HDI Dune to ensure there is a work around/alternative...

It really is personal preference. IMO the Dunes are a lot more stable then the PCH when it comes to playback. The PCH internal jukebox (NMJ) is mostly crap, the A200 series cannot downmix TrueHD, etc... Don't get my wrong, the PCH is a fine player (I have an A200 and A300 in my house), but there is a reason why the 2 Dunes in my house are the ones that get used every day.

Let's hope that is the case! And I'm just thinking of the players that have BD roms, which I have not owned but know on BD players some new movies require an update to play! No update no play! And I hope it does not put Dune in a corner with license = Cinavia. No Cinavia = no license!
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post #1197 of 1569 Old 02-26-2012, 06:58 AM
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For those who haven't read my other posts here, you won't understand the logic behind my above attempt at humor. Here's an explanation--

Reminder- My use here is to only play my own content I created. While Cinavia may bother those of you who are ripping copyrighted media, I have no need to do that. I rent most of my movies from Blockbuster moviepass and can get 2 per day far cheaper than ripping any of those. I can afford to buy all my 3D BD, a couple a month, so that is not an issue either.
I don't care if a new 3DBD player has Cinavia or not as it won't affect me. ( or "infect" if you prefer )
My HiMedia 900B is playing content just fine ( no stuttering or other problems at all) but in some cases without menus some of MY production value is lost. So, I have my OPPO BD-93 with connected hard drive of MY content to handle the menu driven stuff I have created in Power Director. I realize that maybe some day, that OPPO BD-93 maybe unable to play new disk content as it is not connected to the internet for updates. I also have a PS3 that is connected and can always use that to play those Cinavia "infected" movies.

I'm not sure I completely follow the logic behind the Dune option. As I understand it won't, by design, play 3D. So what good is that? For elegance, the PCH A210 has a nice display but it won't do 3D either, however, I believe it is lower cost and smaller than the Dune. The PCH A210 will go out to IMDB and download some info page for those of you interested in ripping your content. For Me, I can create that page too on the drive and have it display a similar info page but that is a lot of work. I just use the folder list. But the images thumbnails are a nice option.

It bothers everybody ripping copyrighted material! It's not a point of stealing! It's backing up your own movies so they don't get all scratched up by the kids! It's big business saying everybody is a thief! I have a 900 and a Dune! My 900 plays just fine but it's poorly designed the GUI looks like a kid developed it, and call up or email HiMedia and see if you get a response? Also pause your unit while a movie is on and see if the screen saver comes on!
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post #1198 of 1569 Old 02-26-2012, 07:04 AM
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Let's hope that is the case! And I'm just thinking of the players that have BD roms, which I have not owned but know on BD players some new movies require an update to play! No update no play! And I hope it does not put Dune in a corner with license = Cinavia. No Cinavia = no license!

I personally expect the days of BR Roms in media players to be over eventually if Cinavia sticks (unless if Slysoft or others crack it). Current players should be fine, just new ones that come to the market

Cheers,
Damian

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post #1199 of 1569 Old 02-26-2012, 07:26 AM
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I personally expect the days of BR Roms in media players to be over eventually if Cinavia sticks (unless if Slysoft or others crack it). Current players should be fine, just new ones that come to the market

I hope so because my Dune D1 will be here monday.!

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post #1200 of 1569 Old 02-26-2012, 07:31 AM
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I hope so because my Dune D1 will be here monday.!

Well, worse case it is a very easy solution, don't upgrade the fw if it comes down to that. I see no reason for concerns for current owners.

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