Best quality VIDEO streamer for bluray content from PC - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 12-14-2011, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I am looking to buy a media streamer that provides the highest quality VIDEO playback available when streaming bluray content from my PC to my TV. Media streamer would be hardwired via Cat6 ethernet to my networked PC and connected via HDMI to my AVR. Of course the streamer would need to bitstream/pass-thru Dolby TrueHD as well as DTS-HD, but I assume any top-end unit would do this. Anything out there that offers playback quality of the Oppo BDP-93 with versatility of the Dune Smart D1?
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post #2 of 30 Old 12-14-2011, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denguy View Post

I am looking to buy a media streamer that provides the highest quality VIDEO playback available when streaming bluray content from my PC to my TV. Media streamer would be hardwired via Cat6 ethernet to my networked PC and connected via HDMI to my AVR. Of course the streamer would need to bitstream/pass-thru Dolby TrueHD as well as DTS-HD, but I assume any top-end unit would do this. Anything out there that offers playback quality of the Oppo BDP-93 with versatility of the Dune Smart D1?

What do you not like about the video quality on a Dune D1?
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post #3 of 30 Old 12-14-2011, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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The Dune's video rendering is okay, but it doesn't blow me away. When I compared it to a stand-alone Sony bluray player, the Sony's picture was more detailed, with higher contrast, the Dune's was a bit flat in comparison. The Dune wasn't a bad picture, but it didn't render the type of movie-theater startlingly sterling picture that some dedicated bluray players seem to be able to do. So I was wondering if there was an audiophile quality (videophile?) streamer out there.
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post #4 of 30 Old 12-14-2011, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denguy View Post

The Dune's video rendering is okay, but it doesn't blow me away. When I compared it to a stand-alone Sony bluray player, the Sony's picture was more detailed, with higher contrast, the Dune's was a bit flat in comparison. The Dune wasn't a bad picture, but it didn't render the type of movie-theater startlingly sterling picture that some dedicated bluray players seem to be able to do. So I was wondering if there was an audiophile quality (videophile?) streamer out there.

Really, for the low cost folks, there are really only processors made by 2 companies, Sigma and Realtek. All Sigma based ones look similar and all Realtek ones look similar. If you want to get something better, you will either need to build it or purchase something in the 5 figure range and then you get into the laws of diminishing returns.

A few companies will be showing products at the Consumer Electronics Show built around the upcoming generation of the Sigma and Realtek chips that promise better processing (the current sigma chips are 3 years old now!). That show is in the second week of January.

I actually had my TV HDMI input with the Dune attached calibrated separately to adjust for the differences in the Dune output with excellent results.
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post #5 of 30 Old 12-15-2011, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I like Dune AND Oppo. I was just wondering whether there was something out there that combined the best of both. Popcorn Hour gets too many complaints for me though I haven't tried it.
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post #6 of 30 Old 12-15-2011, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denguy View Post

I like Dune AND Oppo. I was just wondering whether there was something out there that combined the best of both. Popcorn Hour gets too many complaints for me though I haven't tried it.

I have owned both and finally sold my oppo when I was able to get quality SACD rips.
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post #7 of 30 Old 12-16-2011, 12:25 PM
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I was convinced that building a HTPC and using Media Player Classic provides better quality bluray playback than stand-alone bluray players. Is this not true?
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post #8 of 30 Old 12-16-2011, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by terminaldawn View Post

I was convinced that building a HTPC and using Media Player Classic provides better quality bluray playback than stand-alone bluray players. Is this not true?

I would think that MPC would be worse quality than bluray players...I have heard that the quality gets worse if you switch to 16-235 from 0-255, and of course 0-255 is not the native color space of Blu-rays. Could be wrong though.

My main complaint about HTPCs is that it is tricky to get them to output the correct frame rate AND the correct audio sync. In fact I think it is impossible without nvidia and a custom res.
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post #9 of 30 Old 12-16-2011, 02:07 PM
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I feel like I need to chime in here (not even sure how I ended up in this thread). I can't comment on the issue of converting from PC to TV colorspace, though I would bet there are solutions which override any need to perform conversions. But as far as picture quality goes, one of the things a HTPC can do which it is nearly certain no dedicated media player mimics is the ability to post-process the chroma channel and effect a resolution similar to the luma. This is an important step because the TV sure as heck isn't going to do it. Fairly CPU demanding and somewhat esoteric, this function would probably be responsible for the biggest difference in picture quality, all else being equal.

That said, I wholeheartedly concur with the concerns over a reliably stable framerate coming from any PC OS.
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post #10 of 30 Old 12-16-2011, 10:05 PM
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@ OP - when you are talking about BR rips- are you streaming MKVs, ISOs, or m2ts?

I've seen the Nixeus Fusion XS at the gdgt show and I do notice that Video quality is better than Sigma and Realtek (They had they're Fuson HD using Sigma to compare)... they told me it was because of Marvell's Qdeo Technology video post processing... but if you are streaming BR ISOs I don't think it supports it...

Cheers!

Cameron
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post #11 of 30 Old 12-17-2011, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgvroadster View Post

@ OP - when you are talking about BR rips- are you streaming MKVs, ISOs, or m2ts?

I've seen the Nixeus Fusion XS at the gdgt show and I do notice that Video quality is better than Sigma and Realtek (They had they're Fuson HD using Sigma to compare)... they told me it was because of Marvell's Qdeo Technology video post processing... but if you are streaming BR ISOs I don't think it supports it...

I'm looking to play back from m2ts rips. And it's interesting the Nixeus XS uses Marvell's Qdeo technology because I believe that is what Oppo uses in their BDP-93 which has excellent vid quality.
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post #12 of 30 Old 12-20-2011, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm surprised there is not a higher end product with "videophile" level components in the $400 to $900 range. There is a market for it I would think.
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post #13 of 30 Old 12-20-2011, 08:48 PM
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I think Dune is coming out with a new player, the DUNE HD PRO, that uses a Sigma Designs 8910 chipset with VxP (Video Processing) and may retail in the $1000 USD+ range.
http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2011...s-dune-hd-pro/

The VxP competes and works similar to Qdeo in the Nixeus using the Marvell 88D3010 chipset...

Cheers!

Cameron
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post #14 of 30 Old 12-26-2011, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgvroadster View Post

I think Dune is coming out with a new player, the DUNE HD PRO, that uses a Sigma Designs 8910 chipset with VxP (Video Processing) and may retail in the $1000 USD+ range.
http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2011...s-dune-hd-pro/

The VxP competes and works similar to Qdeo in the Nixeus using the Marvell 88D3010 chipset...

It would be great to have a player with Sigma 8910 for about $200.
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post #15 of 30 Old 12-30-2011, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denguy View Post

The Dune's video rendering is okay, but it doesn't blow me away. When I compared it to a stand-alone Sony bluray player, the Sony's picture was more detailed, with higher contrast, the Dune's was a bit flat in comparison. The Dune wasn't a bad picture, but it didn't render the type of movie-theater startlingly sterling picture that some dedicated bluray players seem to be able to do. So I was wondering if there was an audiophile quality (videophile?) streamer out there.

Whoa is this true? Stand alone blu players look more detailed and crisp than these media devices on this forum?
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post #16 of 30 Old 12-30-2011, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidML3 View Post

Whoa is this true? Stand alone blu players look more detailed and crisp than these media devices on this forum?

That has been my experience with the Dune. Perhaps it's possible to run diagnostics and specifically calibrate a particular device (Dune, blu-ray player, or other media streamer) to match the rest of the audio/video setup. But simply plugging in a blu-ray player and doing the same with the Dune, being sure to select the recommended optimal settings on each, I found the blu-ray player provided video with better contrast and clarity. The Dune wasn't bad, but the blu-ray player was better.
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post #17 of 30 Old 12-31-2011, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denguy View Post

That has been my experience with the Dune. Perhaps it's possible to run diagnostics and specifically calibrate a particular device (Dune, blu-ray player, or other media streamer) to match the rest of the audio/video setup. But simply plugging in a blu-ray player and doing the same with the Dune, being sure to select the recommended optimal settings on each, I found the blu-ray player provided video with better contrast and clarity. The Dune wasn't bad, but the blu-ray player was better.

I would be concerned that the difference you are seeing might be some post processing done by the player (aka. DNIE frrom Samsung, which artificially enhances contrast) or improper setup. Its important to compare apples to apples. I've compared the PS3 to my PCH A-110 on BD and I can see no difference.

I can clearly see a difference on DVD which the PS3 does a much better job of de-interlacing and scaling the image.

Not saying your comparison is not valid but it could be more complicated than what you think.

every HT enthusiast should own a copy of this:

http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/

Have you run both players through a spears and munsel setup to make sure you have everything setup correctly and consistently. That might help you figure out if there is a real difference on maybe a setup or post processing issue. great learning experience even if everything is setup correctly.

best of luck
Sean
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post #18 of 30 Old 12-31-2011, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_w_smith View Post


I would be concerned that the difference you are seeing might be some post processing done by the player (aka. DNIE frrom Samsung, which artificially enhances contrast) or improper setup. Its important to compare apples to apples. I've compared the PS3 to my PCH A-110 on BD and I can see no difference.

I can clearly see a difference on DVD which the PS3 does a much better job of de-interlacing and scaling the image.

Not saying your comparison is not valid but it could be more complicated than what you think.

every HT enthusiast should own a copy of this:

http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/

Have you run both players through a spears and munsel setup to make sure you have everything setup correctly and consistently. That might help you figure out if there is a real difference on maybe a setup or post processing issue. great learning experience even if everything is setup correctly.

best of luck
Sean

I agree! I don't notice any difference in PQ with my A200/110 compared to my PS3 on my plasma or my JVC RS20.

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post #19 of 30 Old 12-31-2011, 05:06 PM
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There have been reviews and tests done extensively regarding PQ in media players and HTPC - I think there are some AnandTech articles talking about this when they did a media player comparison using HQV 2.0 benchmark showing there were picture quality issues in Sigma 865x & 864x, RealTek, and even HTPCs using AMD/Nvidia graphics cards. From their tests it showed no real difference in the Sigma 865x & 864x players but Sigma was better than Realtek - but I'm pretty sure the new Sigma 8910 with VxP would blow them all away.

- though maybe most people may not have two large HDTVs to compare, but if You look at players you have side by side you will notice a difference with stand alone Blu-Ray Players and media players using Sigma and Realtek. Wither they use post processing or not - the quality is noticable in terms of color quality, clarity and jagged edges on videos/movies. Even if you don't have two HDTVs - just hook up your players to the HDMI ports (if you have more than one HDMI port on your TV) and stop at the same scenes and compare by switching HDMI outputs.

I have multiple media players including some new ones I just received recently (all under $200) includng a powerful gaming PC that doubles as a HTPC - will test and compare when I have time this weekend.... Happy New Years Everyone!

Cheers!

Cameron
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post #20 of 30 Old 12-31-2011, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidML3 View Post

Whoa is this true? Stand alone blu players look more detailed and crisp than these media devices on this forum?

Yes it is true... I've compared them side by side... but it also depends if you have a good BR player or A/V Receiver with post processing - there are some new A/V receivers I saw on sale over the holidays that are also using Qdeo Technology...

Cheers!

Cameron
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post #21 of 30 Old 01-01-2012, 07:03 PM
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this is a nice thread,just found it today heh:P anyways i would like to say that it's no surprise the standalone blu ray player looks better than a media player.i just noticed the roku LT+xbox 360 has better picture quailty than the wdtv smp when playing netflix.my old briteview cinematube 5005 probably had better picture quailty when playing dvds.netgear 550 looked the same.does it depend on the coders from wdtv,netgear,etc to make the picture quailty better or is it the video chips installed?
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post #22 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgvroadster View Post

Yes it is true... I've compared them side by side... but it also depends if you have a good BR player or A/V Receiver with post processing - there are some new A/V receivers I saw on sale over the holidays that are also using Qdeo Technology...

Wow I wonder if I should cancel my Dune and just go Blu Ray player only. I want the best, clearest sharpest picture I can get
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post #23 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by fpsfreak View Post

this is a nice thread,just found it today heh:P anyways i would like to say that it's no surprise the standalone blu ray player looks better than a media player.i just noticed the roku LT+xbox 360 has better picture quailty than the wdtv smp when playing netflix.my old briteview cinematube 5005 probably had better picture quailty when playing dvds.netgear 550 looked the same.does it depend on the coders from wdtv,netgear,etc to make the picture quailty better or is it the video chips installed?

It depends on the SoC (Video Chips) installed. Currently there is only one chipset in media players that does video post processing to improve overall picture quality - the Marvell 88DE3010 with Qdeo Technology which is available in the Nixeus Fusion XS Network Media Player. The Fusion XS is still very new and may need time to mature. Qdeo is already in some A/V Receivers and been in Blu-Ray Players for several years now. The only other SoC that will have video post processing is the Sigma 8910 using VxP - which may not be available till much later this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidML3 View Post

Wow I wonder if I should cancel my Dune and just go Blu Ray player only. I want the best, clearest sharpest picture I can get

Or you can get an A/V Receiver with Qdeo or VxP to do this for you. My friend just bought an Onkyo A/V Reciever with Qdeo over the holidays - if I have time I'll bring over my media players that don't have Video Post processing built in to test if it does improve PQ and report back here...

Cheers!

Cameron
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post #24 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

I have owned both and finally sold my oppo when I was able to get quality SACD rips.

Two questions:
- How are you ripping your SACDs?
- Does the Dune Lite 53d playback SACD format?

Looking at getting a Dune, but use my Oppo BDP-83 for SACD playback....

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post #25 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgvroadster View Post

It depends on the SoC (Video Chips) installed. Currently there is only one chipset in media players that does video post processing to improve overall picture quality - the Marvell 88DE3010 with Qdeo Technology which is available in the Nixeus Fusion XS Network Media Player. The Fusion XS is still very new and may need time to mature. Qdeo is already in some A/V Receivers and been in Blu-Ray Players for several years now. The only other SoC that will have video post processing is the Sigma 8910 using VxP - which may not be available till much later this year.



Or you can get an A/V Receiver with Qdeo or VxP to do this for you. My friend just bought an Onkyo A/V Reciever with Qdeo over the holidays - if I have time I'll bring over my media players that don't have Video Post processing built in to test if it does improve PQ and report back here...

yes and please send me a pm and let me know if you see a difference or not. That is all im looking for is a device that will play full on Blu Ray with no stutter or pixelation with the sharpest, cleanest image available.
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post #26 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMcM1956 View Post

Two questions:
- How are you ripping your SACDs?
- Does the Dune Lite 53d playback SACD format?

Looking at getting a Dune, but use my Oppo BDP-83 for SACD playback....

Rip your SACDs using the PS3 method... feel free to PM for more info. NEVER buy the Dune Lite... any other Dune will be better. Dunes do not play DSD (SACD format) directly. You need to convert to either flac or wav.
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post #27 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidML3 View Post

yes and please send me a pm and let me know if you see a difference or not. That is all im looking for is a device that will play full on Blu Ray with no stutter or pixelation with the sharpest, cleanest image available.

So you don't care about audio quality?
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post #28 of 30 Old 01-04-2012, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

Rip your SACDs using the PS3 method... feel free to PM for more info. NEVER buy the Dune Lite... any other Dune will be better. Dunes do not play DSD (SACD format) directly. You need to convert to either flac or wav.

how abt dvd audio for ps3?
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post #29 of 30 Old 01-05-2012, 09:00 AM
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So you don't care about audio quality?

Somewhat but I live in an APT and cant blast my surround like I want to. So at this point PQ is more important
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post #30 of 30 Old 01-05-2012, 10:20 AM
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how abt dvd audio for ps3?

The sacd is not FOR the ps3 but ripped USING the ps3. Dvdaudio can be ripped using a standard computer DVD drive
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