New Dune HD Sigma 8910 anticipation thread Q2 2012 - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 409 Old 07-05-2012, 10:07 PM
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It is too bad. Nothing new at all. Very lame.

I would suggest you find what player you like and buy it! If they haven't started to discontinue models already, I'm sure it will start soon.
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post #272 of 409 Old 07-06-2012, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

There's no such thing as "bitstreaming" FLAC. A device either plays FLAC (and decodes it to PCM), or it doesn't. Whether it accesses the file via DNLA or directly isn't relevant.

While I agree that we haven't seen devices that do it, there is not a technical barrier to bit streaming (i.e. passing encoded data over a wire) it similar to other lossless compressed formats. You say that like it's beyond the realm of possibility, where it is actually just something that hasn't been done - most likely because there's not much incentive to given the cost (or more fitting, costless) of implementing FLAC decoding.

Implementation matters. If a feature is limited to DLNA, local access, or SMB it is material information.
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post #273 of 409 Old 07-06-2012, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

While I agree that we haven't seen devices that do it, there is not a technical barrier to bit streaming (i.e. passing encoded data over a wire) it similar to other lossless compressed formats. You say that like it's beyond the realm of possibility, where it is actually just something that hasn't been done - most likely because there's not much incentive to given the cost (or more fitting, costless) of implementing FLAC decoding.
Implementation matters. If a feature is limited to DLNA, local access, or SMB it is material information.

I would guess that large companies like Sony, Samsung, WD view MKV as a "hackers" container and that supporting it would/does encourage ripping/illegeal activity which goes against their business interests or their "partners"???? After all, how much commercial content is avaliable for purchase in mkv container? I would guess - none! Maybe I am way off base, but I know how these companies think-be damned what the consumer actually wants and will pay for.
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post #274 of 409 Old 07-06-2012, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

I would guess that large companies like Sony, Samsung, WD view MKV as a "hackers" container and that supporting it would/does encourage ripping/illegeal activity which goes against their business interests or their "partners"???? After all, how much commercial content is avaliable for purchase in mkv container? I would guess - none! Maybe I am way off base, but I know how these companies think-be damned what the consumer actually wants and will pay for.

Many modern CE devices from major OEMs support MKV and FLAC decoding support was added to most mid-level+ AVR in the last couple years.
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post #275 of 409 Old 07-06-2012, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

Many modern CE devices from major OEMs support MKV and FLAC decoding support was added to most mid-level+ AVR in the last couple years.
Good to know-I stand corrected.
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post #276 of 409 Old 07-06-2012, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

While I agree that we haven't seen devices that do it, there is not a technical barrier to bit streaming (i.e. passing encoded data over a wire) it similar to other lossless compressed formats.
Although it is true that it can be done, someone has to define the protocol first.

The other lossless formats we designed as bit-streams, so passing them through a serial link was inherent. FLAC was designed as a file-format, and therefore is inherently organized as bytes and blocks.

A key ingredient that bit-streams have are synchronizing-tokens - unique bit patterns that can be detected in the serial stream to give "boundaries" to the streamed data. If you simply sent the FLAC data down a serial line, the receiving end would not be able to tell where the byte or block boundaries were, and therefore couldn't decode it. There is nothing to sync to.

Someone needs to come up with a definition for "serial-FLAC" before it can be bitstreamed.
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post #277 of 409 Old 07-06-2012, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss View Post

Although it is true that it can be done, someone has to define the protocol first.
The other lossless formats we designed as bit-streams, so passing them through a serial link was inherent. FLAC was designed as a file-format, and therefore is inherently organized as bytes and blocks.
A key ingredient that bit-streams have are synchronizing-tokens - unique bit patterns that can be detected in the serial stream to give "boundaries" to the streamed data. If you simply sent the FLAC data down a serial line, the receiving end would not be able to tell where the byte or block boundaries were, and therefore couldn't decode it. There is nothing to sync to.
Someone needs to come up with a definition for "serial-FLAC" before it can be bitstreamed.

Yeah, just like how there are Dolby AC3 (at rest) and Dolby AC3 SPDIF (when bit streaming) media sub types (a transformation handled by the audio decoder). Defining a framing scheme isn't difficult, it would just need to be done.

If your point is to assert that no one has implemented it, I think we can vigorously agree on that (which is why I sought clarification earlier). That said, IMO the barrier is economic, not technical because 1) decoding FLAC is free 2) multi-channel PCM is easy over HDMI so there is nothing tangible to gain for the required investment.
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post #278 of 409 Old 07-06-2012, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

Yeah, just like how there are Dolby AC3 (at rest) and Dolby AC3 SPDIF (when bit streaming) media sub types (a transformation handled by the audio decoder). Defining a framing scheme isn't difficult, it would just need to be done.
Agreed.

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If your point is to assert that no one has implemented it, I think we can vigorously agree on that (which is why I sought clarification earlier).
Yes, that is my point.

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That said, IMO the barrier is economic, not technical because 1) decoding FLAC is free 2) multi-channel PCM is easy over HDMI so there is nothing tangible to gain for the required investment.
I would need to digest that, but I think you're probably right. It certainly isn't a technical problem. I could even do it, but I have no need. I suspect most manufacturers feel the same way.

There appears to be no reason to transmit un-decoded FLAC, as it is free and easy for the device reading the FLAC file to decode to PCM. The only advantage to not decoding is using less bandwidth on the S/PDIF line, but since it is only about two-to-one, it really doesn't help much. It's still not enough improvement to do multi-channel (assuming 5.1), and HDMI always had enough bandwidth for multi-channel. And everyone can accept PCM.
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post #279 of 409 Old 07-13-2012, 01:01 PM
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Well, over 1.5 years after announcing a product in an industry with about 1 year product life cycles, we've seen nothing of the 8910. Sigma appears to be in disarray, as noted today in financila markets:

"UBS has downgraded Sigma Designs to sell from neutral and lowered its price target on the stock to $5 from $5.50.

"We are downgrading Sigma to Sell from Neutral for four reasons: 1) core IPTV sales have yet to recover and relies heavily on telco spending, 2) digital TV (DTV) consolidation between MediaTek and MStar could dampen growth expectations for Sigma's recently acquired Trident DTV business, 3) cash burn remains a concern given low sales base and management's reluctance to reduce operating costs, 4) activist shareholder battle for board seats takes management focus away from operations," the firm said."

Lastly, it's mid-July: well past Q2 2012. Time to close this thread and hope for a new media box SoC from Marvell or other companies.
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post #280 of 409 Old 07-13-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennst48 View Post

Well, over 1.5 years after announcing a product in an industry with about 1 year product life cycles, we've seen nothing of the 8910. Sigma appears to be in disarray, as noted today in financila markets:
"UBS has downgraded Sigma Designs to sell from neutral and lowered its price target on the stock to $5 from $5.50.
"We are downgrading Sigma to Sell from Neutral for four reasons: 1) core IPTV sales have yet to recover and relies heavily on telco spending, 2) digital TV (DTV) consolidation between MediaTek and MStar could dampen growth expectations for Sigma's recently acquired Trident DTV business, 3) cash burn remains a concern given low sales base and management's reluctance to reduce operating costs, 4) activist shareholder battle for board seats takes management focus away from operations," the firm said."
Lastly, it's mid-July: well past Q2 2012. Time to close this thread and hope for a new media box SoC from Marvell or other companies.

Sigma already announced this years chips and as has been said the 8910 was more then likely scrapped. And doubt many would like marvell being no ISO support, and only supporting with an android sdk that is flaky.
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post #281 of 409 Old 07-13-2012, 01:36 PM
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So, this pretty much means that Dune and PCH will have to start looking at other chips or go out of business.rolleyes.gif I'm hoping Dune goes out of business so I can buy a couple more Dune smart series at a good price smile.gif

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post #282 of 409 Old 07-13-2012, 01:40 PM
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I agree, I don't like anything Marvell currently has. But that doesn't mean that they don't have something planned that I would - this is a fairly fast moving industry.

So what can we anticipate from whom next that is an impressive step above what we can get today?
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post #283 of 409 Old 07-13-2012, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by pennst48 View Post

I agree, I don't like anything Marvell currently has. But that doesn't mean that they don't have something planned that I would - this is a fairly fast moving industry.
So what can we anticipate from whom next that is an impressive step above what we can get today?

There isn't anything. The fact of the matter is, this is a niche market, and I wouldn't expect a whole lot of focus aside from the current players in the market. It really comes down to Sigma and Realtek. Intel made a run at it with Boxee Box. Who knows what we will see with marvell. For all we know Windows 8 ARM machines may be the next big thing???

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post #284 of 409 Old 07-13-2012, 06:11 PM
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I am betting that Sigma will be gone from the media player market in 2-years....if not less.
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post #285 of 409 Old 07-13-2012, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been looking around and companies that used to sell dune are getting smaller.One I was looking at had minimal stock. Reatek are a joke for support.Would be great if some company would do a media player right
cooling of the hdd
normal dvd/bluray form factor
front loading hdd caddie
3d done properly
and plays content good like the dune with good upscaling
Mostly, play most jukeboxes or have a great one incorporated

The smart series was a step backwards for dune especially no cooling for the internal hdd

I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken
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post #286 of 409 Old 08-06-2012, 10:10 PM
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I am betting that Sigma will be gone from the media player market in 2-years....if not less.

I can even see bankruptcy.

[]s,
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post #287 of 409 Old 08-07-2012, 04:37 AM
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Christ, this thread is sad..
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post #288 of 409 Old 08-07-2012, 10:54 AM
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Christ, this thread is sad..

Perhaps there aren't many new buyers of Dune these days, but I'm still happy with my HD Base 3.0, 2+ years now of trouble-free operation. I'm still tweaking my setup (I like to tinker) so I'm still hanging around on the boards, but I don't see much activity.
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post #289 of 409 Old 08-07-2012, 12:10 PM
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Perhaps there aren't many new buyers of Dune these days, but I'm still happy with my HD Base 3.0, 2+ years now of trouble-free operation. I'm still tweaking my setup (I like to tinker) so I'm still hanging around on the boards, but I don't see much activity.

I'm extremely happy as well, but the price increased on an old harware without any upgrades isnt very good. I am hoping for Dune to come out with something new and resonably priced. I dont mind paying a little bit more for something that works out of the box.

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post #290 of 409 Old 08-07-2012, 12:19 PM
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Since last January, my Smart D1 has been a beautiful thing.
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post #291 of 409 Old 08-07-2012, 12:21 PM
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I'm extremely happy as well, but the price increased on an old harware without any upgrades isnt very good. I am hoping for Dune to come out with something new and resonably priced. I dont mind paying a little bit more for something that works out of the box.

The 101 and 301 models don't count?
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post #292 of 409 Old 08-07-2012, 12:30 PM
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I'm still wondering what improvements the [claimed] mosquito noise reduction circuitry might have offered.
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post #293 of 409 Old 08-07-2012, 04:27 PM
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So its safe to assume there won't be a Smart player with 3D ISO playback?

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post #294 of 409 Old 08-07-2012, 09:28 PM
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The 101 and 301 models don't count?

No. They do not count. No BD full ISO support and lacks other things as well.

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post #295 of 409 Old 08-08-2012, 03:39 PM
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It is pretty pathetic to me that Dune just released a new player and it still has HDMI V1.3 and is selling for $600. This is shameful for a company to do, selling old technology for such a high price. They would be lucky to sell 100 of these units and whoever does buy one is either an idiot or just has money to burn.
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Originally Posted by Opentoe View Post

It is pretty pathetic to me that Dune just released a new player and it still has HDMI V1.3 and is selling for $600. This is shameful for a company to do, selling old technology for such a high price. They would be lucky to sell 100 of these units and whoever does buy one is either an idiot or just has money to burn.
uuhhhh, what you talkin' bout Willis? got a link?
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post #297 of 409 Old 08-09-2012, 06:58 AM
 
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anyone else here of a new dune player or is opentoe smoking the good stuff again?
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post #298 of 409 Old 08-09-2012, 07:51 AM
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anyone else here of a new dune player or is opentoe smoking the good stuff again?

I want some of whatever he is smoking!biggrin.gif

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post #299 of 409 Old 08-09-2012, 09:42 AM
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anyone else here of a new dune player or is opentoe smoking the good stuff again?

Aint herd nothing but being its IFA I suspect we will see the DUNE HD pro again for the 3rd time with a release date of 6 months out tongue.gif . Only other things they have said is there oem models that are not retail for IPTV service. Sigma has not put out any new decent chips besides the 867x which are low model chips unless the 8910 sees the light of day.

I think PCH might be coming out with something, As they have a booth at IFA, CEDIA, and IBC this year. They usually never have booths let alone at three different shows.

Guess we all need to wait 3 weeks to find out.
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post #300 of 409 Old 08-09-2012, 11:23 AM
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So, there is even more vaporware or whoknowswhenwhere out of IFA than CES?

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