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post #1 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to buy or build an NAS and would like some guidance on what to buy/build to fit my application. I am going to use the device to store all my music to play via SONOS - means we'll be using CIFS / SMB file sharing protocol (currently all music is Apple Lossless, about 200GB), store/aggregate all of our pictures (probably about 100GB), as a DLNA server to push videos to my Oppo BDP-83 (or Xbox 360 if that's preferred), not currently backing up blurays/dvds, but I will toy with the idea in the future). Lastly, I'd like to back up the NAS device to the "cloud", thinking Crashplan (unlimited storage, no speed throttling, seems like it SHOULD support an NAS).

Thanks for any guidance.
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post #2 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 08:29 PM
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unRaid

Media Server: UnRaid Server: 15TB of storage and growing :).

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post #3 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBusiness View Post

I'm going to buy or build an NAS and would like some guidance on what to buy/build to fit my application. I am going to use the device to store all my music to play via SONOS - means we'll be using CIFS / SMB file sharing protocol (currently all music is Apple Lossless, about 200GB), store/aggregate all of our pictures (probably about 100GB), as a DLNA server to push videos to my Oppo BDP-83 (or Xbox 360 if that's preferred), not currently backing up blurays/dvds, but I will toy with the idea in the future). Lastly, I'd like to back up the NAS device to the "cloud", thinking Crashplan (unlimited storage, no speed throttling, seems like it SHOULD support an NAS).

Thanks for any guidance.

I've been considering this. There are a few unlimited backup/hosting options out there. It makes sense so long as you don't need to load up the NAS immediately and then expect it to be backed up too fast. That initial upload is going to saturate your net connection for days. Weeks. (Unless you start from scratch.) You also need to consider that you have to download the files, etc. That kind of backup isn't like having a mirrored drive, a drive image or backup tape that you can restore and boot (unless you backup to an image file and then sync that target file.)

Anyway, if the limitations are acceptable then I think it makes good sense. You can slap as many drives into as RAID0 as needed to hold your data and saturate your local and network I/O capabilities, and then off to the races you go...
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post #4 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by innatetech View Post


I've been considering this. There are a few unlimited backup/hosting options out there. It makes sense so long as you don't need to load up the NAS immediately and then expect it to be backed up too fast. That initial upload is going to saturate your net connection for days. Weeks. (Unless you start from scratch.) You also need to consider that you have to download the files, etc. That kind of backup isn't like having a mirrored drive, a drive image or backup tape that you can restore and boot (unless you backup to an image file and then sync that target file.)

Anyway, if the limitations are acceptable then I think it makes good sense. You can slap as many drives into as RAID0 as needed to hold your data and saturate your local and network I/O capabilities, and then off to the races you go...

The cloud is really for worst case backup scenario, I anticipate not having to use it, and may only use it for music and pictures. I've got a pretty decent connection, 10mbps up, and am not home that often, so not really concerned about upload time.

The main point is to have an nas that will run a dlna server to stream video, and to use with sonos as a music storage.

Basic question, but will this nas just show up as a common drive on each computer, like x drive being the nas hdd?

Brand recommendations are appreciated for hardware. Do I need to have the nas Linux based to backup to the crash plan cloud?
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post #5 of 29 Old 01-14-2012, 08:31 AM
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crashplan works great and is cheap. When are you going to start this project? Is waiting for win 8 an option?
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post #6 of 29 Old 01-14-2012, 12:38 PM
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Why can't one use Windows 7 or Vista for this purpose? It seems to me that these two already can do the functions that the OP wants.
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post #7 of 29 Old 01-14-2012, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vett93 View Post

Why can't one use Windows 7 or Vista for this purpose? It seems to me that these two already can do the functions that the OP wants.

Windows 7 can do this in a basic sense. When one wants to serve a large amount of data which can happen quickly ripping blu-ray et. al., windows 7 does not provide very good software-only storage options. He can either get a raid card or use an unsupported option. Windows 8 has many software protected storage options that are efficient and supported.
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post #8 of 29 Old 01-14-2012, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mlknez View Post


Windows 7 can do this in a basic sense. When one wants to serve a large amount of data which can happen quickly ripping blu-ray et. al., windows 7 does not provide very good software-only storage options. He can either get a raid card or use an unsupported option. Windows 8 has many software protected storage options that are efficient and supported.

I had been skipping a windows based unit because it seems like it would be difficult to interface with crash plan. There is an unsupported work around using command line, but I don't know how much time I want to invest in programming. I'd much rather just find a plug and play solution. I might consider starting with a small nas, just for music and pictures, and skip blurays until I am comfortable using everything.....that way I can wait for windows 8, but win 8 beta builds will be available within a month, so I could wait that long.

If I were to skip backing up blurays, what would your reccomendation be? Both hardware and software? I'd prefer to not have a computer running in order to use this (that is the whole idea of an nas, right?)
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post #9 of 29 Old 01-14-2012, 04:49 PM
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I was going to buy a 2 bay nas, but I know in approximately 6 months, I will need to update. So, I ended up buying a 4 bay Mediasonic Probox HDD enclosure for $130.00, which I've got connected to my W7 PC, and has all of my SD and HD movies, which I share via samba throughout the house.

I am doing this temporarily until I start and complete building my own unRaid server.

So, if you want to spend a couple hundred dollars or more on a small nas that's fine, but just be aware that once you start ripping HD content you will need more storage. That's why I decided to use unRaid, I can maximize my storage rather than using the Raid / WHS option where it cuts my storage in half due to redundancy.

Media Server: UnRaid Server: 15TB of storage and growing :).

http://www.avsforum.com/lists/display/view/id/8599

 

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post #10 of 29 Old 01-14-2012, 05:09 PM
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I was searching for a NAS myself a few weeks ago and even had narrowed down to Netgear ReadyNAS Ultra 2+ and Synology DS212. I posted on CNET and requested for opinions. Then a guy convinced me that using Windows would do the job. My thought is as follows:

1. It seems to me that all these NAS devices are not plug and play. One has to spend hours to figure out how to run them correctly anyway.

2. All my CDs have been ripped to HDs and my PC runs Logitech Media Server software. I have a Logitech Transporter and a SqueezeBox 3 for streaming music. The PC, HDs, and monitors consume less than 5 watts of AC total when the PC is in standby/sleep mode. As soon as I turn on the Transporter or SB3, it will wake up the PC to serve media streams.

3. I use another hard drive to sync with the HD storing media files. I believe this provides similar amount of protection as a NAS with raid 1 configuration. Unless I want to get a NAS with rad 5 configuration, my setup is just as good.

My project is not complete yet though. I still need to figure out how to wake up the PC remotely from laptops, streaming media player, etc. The wake up function only works for the Logitech applications so far.
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post #11 of 29 Old 01-14-2012, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vett93 View Post

I was searching for a NAS myself a few weeks ago and even had narrowed down to Netgear ReadyNAS Ultra 2+ and Synology DS212. I posted on CNET and requested for opinions. Then a guy convinced me that using Windows would do the job. My thought is as follows:

1. It seems to me that all these NAS devices are not plug and play. One has to spend hours to figure out how to run them correctly anyway.

2. All my CDs have been ripped to HDs and my PC runs Logitech Media Server software. I have a Logitech Transporter and a SqueezeBox 3 for streaming music. The PC, HDs, and monitors consume less than 5 watts of AC total when the PC is in standby/sleep mode. As soon as I turn on the Transporter or SB3, it will wake up the PC to serve media streams.

3. I use another hard drive to sync with the HD storing media files. I believe this provides similar amount of protection as a NAS with raid 1 configuration. Unless I want to get a NAS with rad 5 configuration, my setup is just as good.

My project is not complete yet though. I still need to figure out how to wake up the PC remotely from laptops, streaming media player, etc. The wake up function only works for the Logitech applications so far.

That's pretty good. I would like to use a set up similar like yours, but my wife and kids use my computer all the time, and a few times they made it crash, and I had a hard time getting everything back.

So, I decided to use the unRaid for expanding my set up and ease of use. Furthermore, I don't need to be next to it to work on it, I can access it over the internet to make change, and I can even use it as my own cloud...I'm still doing research on how to accomplish this .

Anyway, there are a lot of options out there to accomplish what you want, and everyone is going to have a different opinion as to what is best or worst. In my opinion it is best to get something that has a lot of support either by phone or online forums because it sucks to having something not work, and you have got no idea how to fix it or trouble shoot it.

Media Server: UnRaid Server: 15TB of storage and growing :).

http://www.avsforum.com/lists/display/view/id/8599

 

Home Theater Set Up:

http://www.avsforum.com/lists/display/view/id/8597

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post #12 of 29 Old 01-14-2012, 07:44 PM
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Do you want storage or a computer? Buy a Synology NAS like the DS1511+ and never worry about having to add more storage again. If you use a Windows computer, you are using 100+ watts of power when it is sitting idle (which is most of the time) while the DS1511+ uses about 50 watts. Plus you have a limit to the number of drives you can add to the computer.

I can setup my DS1511+ to provide 45TB of raw storage (not recommended, but it can be done). Far more than most people will ever need (ok, maybe not "ever" need, but they will not need that much unless they store about 1,000 Bluray movie rips).

As for the initial setup, you are correct it is not "plug and play". Mine took about 15 minutes of work then I let it run it's magic (like formatting drives and such). It does take some time, but the process is easy to follow. I was not in any hurry when setting mine up, and I Know it was the best solution for me.
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post #13 of 29 Old 01-14-2012, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmhays View Post

Do you want storage or a computer? Buy a Synology NAS like the DS1511+ and never worry about having to add more storage again. If you use a Windows computer, you are using 100+ watts of power when it is sitting idle (which is most of the time) while the DS1511+ uses about 50 watts. Plus you have a limit to the number of drives you can add to the computer.

I can setup my DS1511+ to provide 45TB of raw storage (not recommended, but it can be done). Far more than most people will ever need (ok, maybe not "ever" need, but they will not need that much unless they store about 1,000 Bluray movie rips).

As for the initial setup, you are correct it is not "plug and play". Mine took about 15 minutes of work then I let it run it's magic (like formatting drives and such). It does take some time, but the process is easy to follow. I was not in any hurry when setting mine up, and I Know it was the best solution for me.

I don't know where you come up with the 100+ watts since unRaid will spin down the drives whenever they are not in use and go to stand by pretty much.

For the price of the DS1511, I can build a super unRaid server with double or triple the amount of storage the DS1511 can do. But if I had the money I would buy one lol.

Media Server: UnRaid Server: 15TB of storage and growing :).

http://www.avsforum.com/lists/display/view/id/8599

 

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http://www.avsforum.com/lists/display/view/id/8597

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post #14 of 29 Old 01-14-2012, 08:16 PM
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I don't know where you come up with the 100+ watts since unRaid will spin down the drives whenever they are not in use and go to stand by pretty much.

For the price of the DS1511, I can build a super unRaid server with double or triple the amount of storage the DS1511 can do. But if I had the money I would buy one lol.

The 100+ watts comes from just running a pc, regardless of how many discs are spinning. Assuming a single drive in a pc, a typical desktop computer uses about 65 to 250 watts. Add another 15-70 watts for an LCD monitor, or about 80 watts if you have an old-school 17" CRT. More dirves mean more power. I am sure you can tweak your setup to get it to run more effecintly. Whatever the numbers, the Synology will use less power. Look here for a test:
http://www.legionhardware.com/articl..._ds1511,6.html

For me, it came down to a "plug and play" installation vs. a build your own solution. Both work equally well if you have the time, knowledge, skills, money, etc. For me, it was SO much easier to buy the Synology, throw in some drives and fire it up. Of course since I ONLY use it for business purposes (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) work paid for mine so that also helped in MY decision.
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post #15 of 29 Old 01-15-2012, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jmhays View Post

The 100+ watts comes from just running a pc, regardless of how many discs are spinning. Assuming a single drive in a pc, a typical desktop computer uses about 65 to 250 watts. Add another 15-70 watts for an LCD monitor, or about 80 watts if you have an old-school 17" CRT. More dirves mean more power. I am sure you can tweak your setup to get it to run more effecintly. Whatever the numbers, the Synology will use less power. Look here for a test:
http://www.legionhardware.com/articl..._ds1511,6.html

For me, it came down to a "plug and play" installation vs. a build your own solution. Both work equally well if you have the time, knowledge, skills, money, etc. For me, it was SO much easier to buy the Synology, throw in some drives and fire it up. Of course since I ONLY use it for business purposes (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) work paid for mine so that also helped in MY decision.

I've got a business licenses too, that I've never used because I never really had time to work on it...wonder if I can do the same for tax season lol.

Anyway, I must have my home set up to "AWESOME POWER SAVER MODE" because I only pay about $60 to $80 a month (depending on how much I use the heater) and my pc, laptop, 2 50" plasma tvs, etc are on pretty much all day.

Media Server: UnRaid Server: 15TB of storage and growing :).

http://www.avsforum.com/lists/display/view/id/8599

 

Home Theater Set Up:

http://www.avsforum.com/lists/display/view/id/8597

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post #16 of 29 Old 01-15-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmhays View Post

Do you want storage or a computer? Buy a Synology NAS like the DS1511+ and never worry about having to add more storage again. If you use a Windows computer, you are using 100+ watts of power when it is sitting idle (which is most of the time) while the DS1511+ uses about 50 watts. Plus you have a limit to the number of drives you can add to the computer.

I can setup my DS1511+ to provide 45TB of raw storage (not recommended, but it can be done). Far more than most people will ever need (ok, maybe not "ever" need, but they will not need that much unless they store about 1,000 Bluray movie rips).

I looked up the DS1511+ specs on Synology's website. Its idle power consumption is 30watts and it consumes 68 watts in operation mode. The supported storage capacity is 15TB for RAID 0 configuration. If you want any sort of redundancy, it goes down to 12TB.

My Windows Vista machine idles about 100 watts with the HDs. The monitors are in power saving mode during idle periods which consume about 1-2 watts. For my Logitech Media Server application, I can put my PC to sleep mode to save the power. In this configuration, it consumes less than 10 watts for the entire system. I can configure my UPS to cut power to monitors and external HDs to further save power.
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post #17 of 29 Old 01-15-2012, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JustBusiness View Post

I had been skipping a windows based unit because it seems like it would be difficult to interface with crash plan. ...

Why do you think a windows based unit would have problems with crashplan? I looked up their website and did not get that impression. Their biggest customer base would be using windows based systems, IMO.

Also, CIFS is Microsoft's implementation of SMB protocol....
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post #18 of 29 Old 01-15-2012, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jmhays View Post

... Plus you have a limit to the number of drives you can add to the computer.
...


Really????? What would be that limit? I have never run into any limit thus far. I run out of money before I run out of drives that I can install.
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post #19 of 29 Old 01-15-2012, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vett93 View Post

Why do you think a windows based unit would have problems with crashplan? I looked up their website and did not get that impression. Their biggest customer base would be using windows based systems, IMO.

Also, CIFS is Microsoft's implementation of SMB protocol....

The only limitation is that the crashplan application runs as a restricted service on windows. This means that it does not have access to the user logon devices such as mapped drives. There are very easy workarounds to that however.
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post #20 of 29 Old 01-15-2012, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of the info, I've been looking in to everything, and want to adjust slightly what I will be doing with the nas. I am not going to permanently store any hd video rips, atthis point that would be cost prohibitive (not to mention time). The only hd videos that I will be storingwill be watched onceor twice after download (mostly TopGear and other out of market programs).


The reason I want an nas is to avoid any pc failure from malware, the ability to access it from many devices (my home network map ispretty large for only having two people live here), and so that if a pc is left at work, battery dead, etc, I can access the media on it easily from somewhere else.

So it looks like I should either build my own bare bones unraid server system, or buy a cheap pre made system. I'd like to keep cost around 200 or less.

Thanks again for everyone input. This is the space where my knowledge is most lacking.
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post #21 of 29 Old 01-15-2012, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of the info, I've been looking in to everything, and want to adjust slightly what I will be doing with the nas. I am not going to permanently store any hd video rips, atthis point that would be cost prohibitive (not to mention time). The only hd videos that I will be storingwill be watched onceor twice after download (mostly TopGear and other out of market programs).

The reason I want an nas is to avoid any pc failure from malware, the ability to access it from many devices (my home network map ispretty large for only having two people live here), and so that if a pc is left at work, battery dead, etc, I can access the media on it easily from somewhere else.

So it looks like I should either build my own bare bones unraid server system, or buy a cheap pre made system. I'd like to keep cost around 200 or less.

Thanks again for everyone input. This is the space where my knowledge is most lacking.

By the way, power consumption is something I am relatively unconcerned with, that won't spin my decision one way or the other, also pretty unconcerned with the noise the device makes, it will be located inside a closet, on a rack, with the rest of my av systems.
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post #22 of 29 Old 01-16-2012, 11:24 AM
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Hard drive pricing is going to severely restrict what you can get for $200 right now. Unless that's aside from drives.
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post #23 of 29 Old 01-18-2012, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Just going to have audio and pictures permanently stored. Would like to have it support an online backup service. Would like to purchase a pre-fab unit, but nervous that it could fail easily (Like the Western Digital MyBOOK Live).
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post #24 of 29 Old 01-19-2012, 07:08 PM
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I picked up a Synology DS212j for X-mas, running it with 2 WD Black 2TB HD's. A bit costly with todays HD prices but it's fast, quiet and streams everything easily.
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post #25 of 29 Old 01-19-2012, 08:18 PM
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I picked up a Synology DS212j for X-mas, running it with 2 WD Black 2TB HD's. A bit costly with todays HD prices but it's fast, quiet and streams everything easily.

I was thinking of buying the same model, but I need something bigger than 2 bay. I'm already running out of space with the 4 tb I'm been using. I've got a 2tb external hdd, which I am thinking of taking the hdd out of it and putting it in my 4 bay external Mediasonic enclosure. The only thing I don't like about this enclosure is that it doesn't have any Raid features. I bought because I thought I was going to have my unRaid server done by now, but nope...

My POS 07 Pontiac Gran Prix transmission just went out ...I'm never buying another american car unless its a SUV never had a problem with my Silverado.

Media Server: UnRaid Server: 15TB of storage and growing :).

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post #26 of 29 Old 01-20-2012, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

I was thinking of buying the same model, but I need something bigger than 2 bay. I'm already running out of space with the 4 tb I'm been using.

I use a 2-bay (210j) and 4-bay (411j) in combination with my unRAID. Probably don't need both. Using the Synology DSM to manage the unRAID drives is the primary reason I have the Synology though. Also, this way I can run the "services" on the Synology boxes and keep the unRAID as a media server only. The unRAID shares (disk and user) are mounted via nfs or smb, dependent on what each is storing, and which clients are using them.
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post #27 of 29 Old 01-20-2012, 03:25 PM
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I have a Synology DS1511+ and it's one of the best pieces of technology I've purchased.

It just works..and it works well.
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post #28 of 29 Old 01-21-2012, 09:32 AM
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Another option, pulled from another site:

Newegg Shell Shocker expires 1/21 1pm PST.

AMD Turion II Neo N40L CPU (1.5GHz dual core notebook chip)
2GB DDR3 RAM (single stick, has dual slots)
250GB HDD (four bays total)
WHS 2011 (bundled with system but not preinstalled)

The server itself is a bit larger than the typical WHS boxes such as the HP Storageworks/Mediasmart or the Acer cubes. However, it is much more flexible. It supports four HDDs and one 5¼" optical drive. It also (supposedly, from end user reviews) has an internal USB port so you can boot off a USB flash drive that doesn't stick out. Something else unique is that it has two low profile PCIe slots! Also, has eSATA and VGA output. WHS boxes and various BYO NAS boxes usually don't have any video output whatsoever.
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post #29 of 29 Old 01-21-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastman View Post

Another option, pulled from another site:

Newegg Shell Shocker expires 1/21 1pm PST.

AMD Turion II Neo N40L CPU (1.5GHz dual core notebook chip)
2GB DDR3 RAM (single stick, has dual slots)
250GB HDD (four bays total)
WHS 2011 (bundled with system but not preinstalled)

The server itself is a bit larger than the typical WHS boxes such as the HP Storageworks/Mediasmart or the Acer cubes. However, it is much more flexible. It supports four HDDs and one 5¼" optical drive. It also (supposedly, from end user reviews) has an internal USB port so you can boot off a USB flash drive that doesn't stick out. Something else unique is that it has two low profile PCIe slots! Also, has eSATA and VGA output. WHS boxes and various BYO NAS boxes usually don't have any video output whatsoever.

That's a good set up, but WHS cuts your hard drive space in half. So, if you have 10 tb of storage 5 tb will be use for back up, and the other 5 tb for storing whatever files.

That's why I want to build a unRaid server. You can add any size hard drive and have one parity hdd.

Media Server: UnRaid Server: 15TB of storage and growing :).

http://www.avsforum.com/lists/display/view/id/8599

 

Home Theater Set Up:

http://www.avsforum.com/lists/display/view/id/8597

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