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post #1 of 23 Old 03-27-2012, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,
I'm looking for a security system for my small business.

Does anyone know of any good systems out there? Preferably a system that can connect to a network.

Regards.
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post #2 of 23 Old 03-27-2012, 01:03 PM
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Hi Enzo,

I built a small network based surveillance system using a Synology NAS, which contains surveillance software, and four IP cameras. Because the Synology surveillance software is web-based, I was able to manage it remotely (it was at a second home).

One disadvantage is that they need to be IP cameras from the Synology-approved list and they are not as cheap as NTSC cameras. I used four Panasonic BL-C1A cameras, at $85 each.

The entire system was $907, before tax.
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post #3 of 23 Old 03-27-2012, 04:11 PM
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I'd agree with MarkHotchkiss about the Panasonic Cams

I have 4 of the previous Panasonic models (BL-C30/111) that M/H mentioned and they work fine for monitoring a couple different residences

I have them set to email me a picture(s) if they detect any change in "Temperature" - the IR temp. sensor is much more accurate and less prone to false triggers than if they are set to trip with the motion sensing option (I've had a couple triggered alerts caused by 'flying Bats' sent to me from the one 'remote' residense) -- and I have my PC set to play an Audio track if a triggered alert by the Panny Cams is emailed to me

And I can monitor the Cam alerts while mobile also if I'm using a Tablet/Smart Phone/Laptop

As mentioned by M/H, the Panny Cams are not low priced devices, but considering you will not be paying a Home Security Company a monthly fee, they can be very economical over time
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post #4 of 23 Old 04-02-2012, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice!

What are pros/cons for IP vs. analog cameras?

If I went with analog cameras I would connect to DVR that had network capabilities.. So that won't be an issue.

I'm trying to avoid wiring for the wrong system.
Thanks!
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post #5 of 23 Old 04-02-2012, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzo9 View Post

Thanks for the advice!

What are pros/cons for IP vs. analog cameras?

If I went with analog cameras I would connect to DVR that had network capabilities.. So that won't be an issue.

I'm trying to avoid wiring for the wrong system.
Thanks!

The easiest option for you would be to wire coax and ethernet to all camera locations, then you have the flexibility of going with EITHER analog cameras or IP cameras.

As far as the advantages of IP cameras, for me, the primary reason for doing it was that I could turn my windows home server into a cheap DVR and I could access the camera security feeds from pretty much any device that I want (iPad, iPhones, laptops, web browser at a hotel room, etc).

Additionally with a server/IP based solution it is pretty trivial to make backup copies of your surveillance recordings, print out individual still frames, upload clips to a secure FTP site, etc, etc.

The biggest drawback of IP is that the cameras are expensive. I have three full PTZ panasonic cameras that I weatherized and placed under overhangs around my home (one at the front door, one at the front corner of the house and one on the back patio) and they cost about $500 per unit. They do a great job and I can move the cameras around but the night time performance is atrocious.... to the point that I'm considering replacing them with some fixed PTZ type cameras that have day/night IR cutoffs for fully illuminated night time surveillance.
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post #6 of 23 Old 04-02-2012, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzo9 View Post

What are pros/cons for IP vs. analog cameras?

Hi Enzo,

An obvious difference is the price. I've bought NTSC cameras for $15, whereas the cheapest IP camera I've found is $85. That should change wityh time, and maybe it already has.

A second difference is wiring. Besides the video-pipe, a camera needs power. With an NTSC, you need to wire the coax plus the power. You can use Power-Over-Ethernet (PoE) with an IP camera, so a single cat5 is all you need.

A third difference is resolution. An NTSC camera will be limited to its 3.5 mHz video bandwidth, which is comparable to about 300 pixels wide and 200 high. An IP camera can use any resolution, and my $85 dollar cameras use 640 by 480. Some cameras go up to full 1080p HD.

Yet another difference is the availability of motion-detection. Most IP cameras have motion-detection built-in, whereas NTSC cameras can not. For an NTSC camera, motion-detection needs to be done in the DVR (which really isn't a problem).

And then there is pan, tilt and zoom. An NTSC camera would need PTZ controlled through separate wires, whereas an IP cameras are controlled through the same Ethernet cable that pipes the image.
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post #7 of 23 Old 04-02-2012, 12:42 PM
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The IP cameras can also be Power Over Ethernet. At home I use seven of the BLC-111 Panny cameras and two of the newer BLC-210A cameras. The newer ones get power with POE which makes things easier. I didn't use the wireless versions because they run over wireless G. So any wireless locations I use a wireless bridge so I can run over wireless N at 5GHz or 2.4Ghz.

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post #8 of 23 Old 04-02-2012, 01:11 PM
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I have worked with many different brands of IP Cameras. Its the future and I try not to use CCTV unless I have to. AXIS is the best brand but their prices are very high.

I have recently been looking at implementing a 200 camera system at work and have gotten some Ubiquiti Aircams in for testing. They are great for the price, sub 100$. They are 720p and come in 3 flavors. They all support RTSP and the quality for the price is amazing.

The software the company supplies with them works but I wouldn't recommend it. Go with XProtect GO which is free for 8 cameras with 5day recording backlog. If you need more then 5 days you can upgrade. It supports thousands of different brands of cameras and even has a free iphone/ipad/android app.

If you want linux based software try Bluecherry. It runs on Ubuntu its scaleable and the developers are activly coding it.

If you got any more questions or want to see the quality of an Aircam. I can setup a live demo you can check out.
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post #9 of 23 Old 04-02-2012, 01:15 PM
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As long as we are having this entertaining discussion, I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on Vivotek cameras? I am looking at a Vivotek 8134V indoor/outdoor camera to possibly replace at least one of my Panasonics. They have infrared and are 1280X800 resolution, the video quality seems to be very very good, my only concern is if they are reliable and obviously I would be giving up PTZ to go with them (they are fixed PTZ).
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post #10 of 23 Old 04-02-2012, 07:12 PM
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Personally I wouldn't bother running coax for analog cameras. Casinos don't. They run Cat5 and use baluns (http://www.cat5videobaluns.com/, for example). Much higher noise immunity (balanced line - differential signal). You can use the extra pairs for power if you go that route. And if you go with an ip camera, you can use the same wire.
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post #11 of 23 Old 04-03-2012, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all for the wealth of knowledge on this subject.

@olyteddy-baluns is an interesting and new perspective to my entire design. You hit a point-I could run cat5 and use for any type of camera. Sounds like this made up my mind.

Gonna order cat5 today... Let me know if there's a certain brand/type to get or avoid. Thanks again!!!
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post #12 of 23 Old 04-03-2012, 11:53 AM
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I've used Baluns here in one of my production facilitys for CCTV cameras. They work really well. I don't think you can run 24v CCTV cameras over cat5 though so if you go CCTV make sure they are 12v cameras.


http://www.amazon.com/LTS-LTA1010-Pa...3479169&sr=8-1

Thats the baluns i used. They seem to work great, you can pass audio/ptz + power + video over them.
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post #13 of 23 Old 04-03-2012, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Good deal!

Looking at cat5e cable to hook up the cameras with.

Should I get:
- STP or UTP?

- What's the difference between Solid & Stranded? Which should I get?

- Should I get CMR since this is going in ceiling and walls for a commercial building?

- Do I need special wire for outdoor use (outdoor meaning covered porch... Just cold)?
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post #14 of 23 Old 04-03-2012, 01:44 PM
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Hi Enzo,

Here are my opinions on some of those questions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by enzo9 View Post

- STP or UTP?

Unshielded. For ethernet, STP is only necessary in really noisy environments, like radar installations. Shielded is a pain in the neck to terminate.

Quote:


- What's the difference between Solid & Stranded? Which should I get?

With solid-core, each wire is a single strand of copper, whereas with stranded-core, each wire is made up of a bunch (probably seven) smaller strands of copper.

Solid is easier to terminate, but less flexible. Solid is typically used for fixed-runs, like through attics and inside walls, while stranded is typically used for patch-cords, like from the wall to the camera. I think that you should just get solid for your infrastructure, and then buy pre-made patchcords.

Quote:


- Do I need special wire for outdoor use (outdoor meaning covered porch... Just cold)?

I just use standard cat5e outdoors, even across roofs. The UV from direct sunlight can eventually breakdown the outer insulation, if the cable is not designed for sunlight. All cat5e that I have bought has been UV tolerant, so I think that is pretty standard.


By the way: I really like Olyteddy's balun idea.
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post #15 of 23 Old 04-03-2012, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! This makes total sense. UTP solid cat5e sounds like the way to go then. Then a few feet of outdoor should top it off.
Thanks again!
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post #16 of 23 Old 04-04-2012, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Conflicting answers.

Hi all... Trying to buy the cat5e cables for the IP cameras from monoprice. Need to know your thoughts on type.

Need to run several long runs... Some runs are a bit greater than 100ft. Was going to get UTP Stranded. Some people say that's ok some tell me to get Solid or STP/Stranded.

Please shed some light. There's a pretty big price difference on these, but I want to make sure I get what's needed for IP cameras.

Thanks!
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post #17 of 23 Old 04-04-2012, 06:28 PM
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Hi Enzo,

Electrically, there will be no difference between solid or stranded. Solid is usually preferred simply because it is easier to terminate.

I have never seen a need for shielded. Ever. It is the twists in the cable, coupled with the differential signaling that Ethernet uses, that make Ethernet almost totally impervious to outside noise. Those that recommend shielded are probably working on commission.

I have always used solid UTP, and have several runs that are over 100 feet that run gigabit, indoor and out. Never a problem. I've even had a 500 foot run over a roof, running under industrial air-conditioners.
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post #18 of 23 Old 04-04-2012, 06:51 PM
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The specification for PoE and 100MB ethernet both call for a maximum run of 100 meters, so 100 feet is nothing, it's literally 1/3 the maximum distance before you need switches or repeaters.
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post #19 of 23 Old 04-10-2012, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys.. Any thoughts on connections?

Running solid cat5e for the cameras. What connections should I use to connect one end to the camera and the other end to server?

Should I use wall plate (rj45 keystone plate) then connect from wall with patch cable to device?
Thanks!
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post #20 of 23 Old 04-10-2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzo9 View Post

Should I use wall plate (rj45 keystone plate) then connect from wall with patch cable to device?
Thanks!

This would make for the easiest and cleanest installation.
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post #21 of 23 Old 04-10-2012, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzo9 View Post

Hey guys.. Any thoughts on connections?

Running solid cat5e for the cameras. What connections should I use to connect one end to the camera and the other end to server?

Should I use wall plate (rj45 keystone plate) then connect from wall with patch cable to device?
Thanks!

At the camera end you should terminate the cable to an rj45 keystone plate as you are already describing.

At the server end you should be punching the CAT5 cable down to a split 66 or 110 wall field (you can buy small ones for $25-$40) that has RJ45 terminations on it, then you just run a patch cord from the RJ45 panel to your network switch, which also has a connection to your server.
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post #22 of 23 Old 04-10-2012, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Rgr that!

So I would do the following (sorry, I need to draw things out):

Camera -> patch cable -> RJ45 Keystone plate
-> 110 Connection block -> (not sure what cable) -> Switch -> Server

You've introduced something totally new to my skill set. I've never worked with a 110 connection block. I see how I would connect the camera RJ45 end. That i can manage...

How do I connect 110 to switch?
Thanks!
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post #23 of 23 Old 04-10-2012, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzo9 View Post

Rgr that!

So I would do the following (sorry, I need to draw things out):

Camera -> patch cable -> RJ45 Keystone plate
-> 110 Connection block -> (not sure what cable) -> Switch -> Server

You've introduced something totally new to my skill set. I've never worked with a 110 connection block. I see how I would connect the camera RJ45 end. That i can manage...

How do I connect 110 to switch?
Thanks!

You would be getting something like this;

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0229557

110 terminations from the end of your wire run on one side come out the other side with an RJ-45 female end that you can plug a patch cord into.

You will also need a punch-down tool, they are about $15 for a garbage one $45 for a good one.
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