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post #1 of 16 Old 05-08-2012, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I didn't want to hijack any of the existing threads, so starting yet another one. I'll try to make the long story short. After deciding that one of the drops I'd need to do to run Cat6 through the house (outside wall, vaulted ceiling, no attic above), I decided to try the MOCA route. Found some netgear adapters cheap on Amazon and ordered. The problem is my topology may present a challenge. Basically, it's like this.

Cable from outside -> Amplifier (PCT MA2-4P) -> Run to each of 4 rooms.

The amplifier: http://www.amazon.com/DIGITAL-AMPLIF.../dp/B001EKCGT8

Ideally, I'd like to put a MOCA adapter at each of the 4 drops in the rooms. All are on one side of the amplifier, but I don't know much about it to know if it boosts pre or post split, and since it caps a 1ghz if it's going to filter that on the output side.

So, first question. Does anyone know much about this amp to know if it's going to stop the MOCA signals if all units are on one side of it? If so, any ideas on how to split or diplex the 4 runs?

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post #2 of 16 Old 05-08-2012, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Moebius View Post

I didn't want to hijack any of the existing threads, so starting yet another one. I'll try to make the long story short. After deciding that one of the drops I'd need to do to run Cat6 through the house (outside wall, vaulted ceiling, no attic above), I decided to try the MOCA route. Found some netgear adapters cheap on Amazon and ordered. The problem is my topology may present a challenge. Basically, it's like this.

Cable from outside -> Amplifier (PCT MA2-4P) -> Run to each of 4 rooms.

The amplifier: http://www.amazon.com/DIGITAL-AMPLIF.../dp/B001EKCGT8

Ideally, I'd like to put a MOCA adapter at each of the 4 drops in the rooms. All are on one side of the amplifier, but I don't know much about it to know if it boosts pre or post split, and since it caps a 1ghz if it's going to filter that on the output side.

So, first question. Does anyone know much about this amp to know if it's going to stop the MOCA signals if all units are on one side of it? If so, any ideas on how to split or diplex the 4 runs?

If it caps at 1GHz it's a problem if MoCA has to route through it. MoCA operates above 1GHz.

If you keep it on one side, you should be ok.

Goggle MoCA amplifier or extreme broadband or soontai for MoCA amplifiers.

FWIW, My house is 4200 sq.ft with 9 drops. I don't use an amplifier and have five MoCA adapters.
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post #3 of 16 Old 05-09-2012, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post

If it caps at 1GHz it's a problem if MoCA has to route through it. MoCA operates above 1GHz.

If you keep it on one side, you should be ok.

Goggle MoCA amplifier or extreme broadband or soontai for MoCA amplifiers.

FWIW, My house is 4200 sq.ft with 9 drops. I don't use an amplifier and have five MoCA adapters.

Yeah, that's where I'm wondering on the amp. I've seen some folks with amps that supposedly are 1ghz models but work fine with all MOCA adapters on one side of the amp. Guess I'll find out when I test.

Strangely, I was looking yesterday and had trouble finding a "moca" compatible amplifier. PCT has a couple listed on their site with pdf brochures and everything, but their store doesn't have them listed nor could I find them anywhere. Same with the Soontai one. Found reference, but never an actual one for sale.

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post #4 of 16 Old 05-09-2012, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually, I did think of a follow up question. Right now, I have all 4 drops in the house behind the same amplifier, which I did yesterday as a test. However, it was originally split before the amp with one line going to my office (cable modem is there). I've been finding conflicting answers in my research, but if you're going to have a cable modem behind an amp, is it passive or active return you want? My upstream bandwidth seems the same both in front of and behind the amp (according to speedtest at least), but is the modem having to work harder or anything?

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post #5 of 16 Old 05-09-2012, 07:36 AM
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My cable company will not connect a modem behind an amp, they always run a separate line for them. Whether it's 100% required or not, I don't know.

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post #6 of 16 Old 05-09-2012, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moebius View Post

Actually, I did think of a follow up question. Right now, I have all 4 drops in the house behind the same amplifier, which I did yesterday as a test. However, it was originally split before the amp with one line going to my office (cable modem is there). I've been finding conflicting answers in my research, but if you're going to have a cable modem behind an amp, is it passive or active return you want? My upstream bandwidth seems the same both in front of and behind the amp (according to speedtest at least), but is the modem having to work harder or anything?

Not sure I understand your question regarding passive/active return.

The bandwidth should not change, it's a pass through. The modem is only reading the modulated frequencies it needs.

Your MoCA network will require that all four drops are connected together behind the amplifier because of the 1Ghz cap of the amp. Your amplfier should also work as a POE filter because of the 1Ghz cap. You will need a splitter to join them (1.5Ghz or 2Ghz). To energize the network the first connection will be made to a MoCA adapter and then to your cable modem. I've listed the connections below. I've posted this connection sequence in I think three other threads in the last 24 hours.

  1. The coax coming into the house should first connect to the MoCA adapter input. This MoCA adapter unit should be placed near your cable modem and router (In your case the drop coming to your office).
  2. The video out from the MoCA unit should then be connected to your cable modem.
  3. The Ethernet connection from the cable modem should then be connected to the router input.
  4. An Ethernet connection should then be made from the router out connection back to the MoCA Ethernet connection.
  5. You now have the coax distributed throughout your house energized with the Ethernet signal from the router.

When you want to add an Ethernet connected device somewhere else in the house:
  1. Place the MoCA adapter next to the equipment that you want to connect to your network.
  2. Connect the coax from the wall to the MoCA adapter input.
  3. Plug an Ethernet cable into the MoCA adapter.
  4. Plug the Ethernet cable that you have just attached to the MoCA adapter to your streaming device, TV, Blu-ray, computer, etc.
  5. If you need to make a video connection, connect your coax from the video out of the MoCA adapter to the unit you wish to connect

You can connect additional MoCA adapters as required to the coax network that has been Ethernet enabled by the first MoCA adapter by following the above procedure.
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post #7 of 16 Old 05-09-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nebrunner View Post

My cable company will not connect a modem behind an amp, they always run a separate line for them. Whether it's 100% required or not, I don't know.

Exactly. One size does not fit all. There are a variables and I've been talking in general.

For instance, sometimes it's necessary to put a MoCA filter between the MoCA video out and a TV. Reason being, the MoCA frequencies are interfering with the TV's tuner or cable box.
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post #8 of 16 Old 05-09-2012, 09:15 AM
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b curry - is it OK to have the amplifier on the other end of the MoCA device? I have an OTA antenna that will come in to the house next to one of my MoCA adapters but want the signal sent to a TV downstairs next to a different MoCA adapter (if that makes sense). Is it OK to have an amplified OTA signal go in the TV port of one MoCA adapter and out the TV port of a second?
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post #9 of 16 Old 05-09-2012, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by scottyja View Post

b curry - is it OK to have the amplifier on the other end of the MoCA device? I have an OTA antenna that will come in to the house next to one of my MoCA adapters but want the signal sent to a TV downstairs next to a different MoCA adapter (if that makes sense). Is it OK to have an amplified OTA signal go in the TV port of one MoCA adapter and out the TV port of a second?

Sorry, not enough information on how you've made your connections. Are you saying you don't have a cable modem? You would not connect an OTA antenna directly to a MoCA adapter input.

Short answer, if an amplifier is inside the MoCA network it can potentially block the MoCA frequencies.

If your OTA antenna is connected something like this:
  1. OTA Antenna coax to
  2. OTA amplifier
  3. OTA amplifier coax out to
  4. house coax drops joined together by MoCA friendly splitter
  5. house drop to
  6. Moca adapter input
  7. Moca adapter Ethernet to
  8. Router Ethernet in
  9. Router Ethernet out to
  10. MoCA adapter

Then it should work.
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post #10 of 16 Old 05-09-2012, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post

Sorry, not enough information on how you've made your connections. Are you saying you don't have a cable modem? You would not connect an OTA antenna directly to a MoCA adapter input.

Short answer, if an amplifier is inside the MoCA network it can potentially block the MoCA frequencies.

Good to know. I don't actually have the adapters because we're not in the house yet.

Regarding the cable modem - both the OTA antenna and the cable internet coax come into the house separately. Neither seem to be connected to the rest of the coax connection for the house. The cable box from Comcast is on the outside wall of the office, so they put a new connection directly into the office. Not ideal, but the house was built in the 90's, so there are a lot of random wires (not to mention 3 separate satellite dishes on the roof). I was planning on an ethernet link from my router to the first MoCA device and not adding the cable modem into the mix.

I'll try to draw up a diagram and post a to a new thread so this one can stay on topic. Thanks for your help.
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post #11 of 16 Old 05-09-2012, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by scottyja View Post

Good to know. I don't actually have the adapters because we're not in the house yet.

Regarding the cable modem - both the OTA antenna and the cable internet coax come into the house separately. Neither seem to be connected to the rest of the coax connection for the house. The cable box from Comcast is on the outside wall of the office, so they put a new connection directly into the office. Not ideal, but the house was built in the 90's, so there are a lot of random wires (not to mention 3 separate satellite dishes on the roof). I was planning on an ethernet link from my router to the first MoCA device and not adding the cable modem into the mix.

I'll try to draw up a diagram and post a to a new thread so this one can stay on topic. Thanks for your help.

So you have no cable TV, only internet via the cable modem?

Sounds like you have a can of worms.

For MoCA, you'll still want to get your main drop (new, office connection) connected to the house coax for the network. Then connect to the first MoCA adapter, etc. The input to the MoCA adapter is really an input/output connection and is what will make the network work.

If you have no cable TV service from your Comcast cable you maybe able to get away with the OTA antenna feed on the coax network. The thing is, the cable signal is live on your Comcast cable. If you have no cable TV service active, Comcast has installed a filter outside to block those frequencies. The OTA and cable TV frequencies would interfear with each other. You can try it but normally the OTA cable would have to run separate if cable TV is active.
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post #12 of 16 Old 05-09-2012, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post

So you have no cable TV, only internet via the cable modem?

Sounds like you have a can of worms.

For MoCA, you'll still want to get your main drop (new, office connection) connected to the house coax for the network. Then connect to the first MoCA adapter, etc. The input to the MoCA adapter is really an input/output connection and is what will make the network work.

If you have no cable TV service from your Comcast cable you maybe able to get away with the OTA antenna feed on the coax network. The thing is, the cable signal is live on your Comcast cable. If you have no cable TV service active, Comcast has installed a filter outside to block those frequencies. The OTA and cable TV frequencies would interfear with each other. You can try it but normally the OTA cable would have to run separate if cable TV is active.

Thanks, b curry. I've posted a new topic in this forum with a diagram of what I was envisioning. Doesn't sound like I have it correct, though.
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post #13 of 16 Old 05-09-2012, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post

Not sure I understand your question regarding passive/active return.

The bandwidth should not change, it's a pass through. The modem is only reading the modulated frequencies it needs.

Your MoCA network will require that all four drops are connected together behind the amplifier because of the 1Ghz cap of the amp. Your amplfier should also work as a POE filter because of the 1Ghz cap. You will need a splitter to join them (1.5Ghz or 2Ghz). To energize the network the first connection will be made to a MoCA adapter and then to your cable modem. I've listed the connections below. I've posted this connection sequence in I think three other threads in the last 24 hours.

The connections themselves I have a good idea of, I'm just looking at a slightly odd topology of coax wiring. I'm not familiar with the PCT amp to know if it filters the bandwidth on the output side, or if that happens in the amp circuit. I've seen some instances where people had 4 moca adapters connected behind an amp in the same scenario as I have that worked fine (even though the amp filtered above 1ghz), and others that didn't work because the splitter part of the amp was filtered. I guess that part I won't know until I can test.

The second part of the question had just come because I kept finding conflicting info on having a cable modem behind the amp. I don't need to amplify my upstream, but I had read some reports that modem behind amp means possible problems with upstream. I'm not seeing those in my testing, so trying to confirm if there are other issues with modem behind amp. The cable installer had split before the amp, but for the moca to work, I'd have to have them all on one side of the amp, not both.

I guess that brings me back to the original question of the thread was just seeing if anyone knew that particular amp and

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post #14 of 16 Old 05-09-2012, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Moebius View Post

The connections themselves I have a good idea of, I'm just looking at a slightly odd topology of coax wiring. I'm not familiar with the PCT amp to know if it filters the bandwidth on the output side, or if that happens in the amp circuit. I've seen some instances where people had 4 moca adapters connected behind an amp in the same scenario as I have that worked fine (even though the amp filtered above 1ghz), and others that didn't work because the splitter part of the amp was filtered. I guess that part I won't know until I can test.

The second part of the question had just come because I kept finding conflicting info on having a cable modem behind the amp. I don't need to amplify my upstream, but I had read some reports that modem behind amp means possible problems with upstream. I'm not seeing those in my testing, so trying to confirm if there are other issues with modem behind amp. The cable installer had split before the amp, but for the moca to work, I'd have to have them all on one side of the amp, not both.

I guess that brings me back to the original question of the thread was just seeing if anyone knew that particular amp and

If you don't need to amplify, I would take it out. Makes things more simple. I've seen systems with and without.

You understand that 1Ghz is the bandpass so I think you have to take it from there.
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post #15 of 16 Old 05-10-2012, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post

If you don't need to amplify, I would take it out. Makes things more simple. I've seen systems with and without.

You understand that 1Ghz is the bandpass so I think you have to take it from there.

I don't need to amplify, but I do need all 4 drops on one side of the amp, so it's kind of the by product of that. The good news is that the PCT amp in question doesn't filter on the splitter side. I didn't test network connectivity or speed yet, but hooked up one adapter in my office (now sitting behind the amp) and one in the master bedroom and got a connection.

I'd kind of like to have the office drop back to being split off of the main (before amp), but by the time I split, diplexed, and recombined it with the post-amp feed, it just doesn't seem worth it. At present, the modem is working perfect behind the amp (same up and downstream speeds as when split before amp), so I'll take the "if it ain't broke" approach for now.

One last question on the topic. These first two adapters are the Netgear models, which seem to have gone the way of the dodo. If I pick up a couple Actiontec or other brand for the last two drops, is anything special required to get all 4 talking?

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post #16 of 16 Old 05-10-2012, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Moebius View Post

I don't need to amplify, but I do need all 4 drops on one side of the amp, so it's kind of the by product of that. The good news is that the PCT amp in question doesn't filter on the splitter side. I didn't test network connectivity or speed yet, but hooked up one adapter in my office (now sitting behind the amp) and one in the master bedroom and got a connection.

I'd kind of like to have the office drop back to being split off of the main (before amp), but by the time I split, diplexed, and recombined it with the post-amp feed, it just doesn't seem worth it. At present, the modem is working perfect behind the amp (same up and downstream speeds as when split before amp), so I'll take the "if it ain't broke" approach for now.

One last question on the topic. These first two adapters are the Netgear models, which seem to have gone the way of the dodo. If I pick up a couple Actiontec or other brand for the last two drops, is anything special required to get all 4 talking?

I see no need or benefit to adding a split for your office and no need for diplexing.

Take a look at the Channel Master MC6000 units, they seem to be easy to buy online and should work ok with the Netgear units. Actiontec is OK too. I think they all use the same chip set.

I have a suspicion that Netgear has discontinued their product and is in the process of converting to MoCA 2.0. On the other hand the Netgear units have been in short supply for over a year. You might check Best Buy on line for refurbished Netgear units.
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