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post #31 of 50 Old 06-03-2012, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jakmal View Post

I received the same 'rumor' from another source right after the 1186 was released.

I think the problem for Realtek was that they consumed too much power for the functionality they provided (same for Sigma). What actually prevents these companies from making a tablet platform which can also be fitted with media streamer functionality? Now, don't give me c**p about how BD-J and HD audio and other stuff is going to consume a lot of power. When SoCs with 1 - 2 W power consumption can run demanding Android apps based on Dalvik / Java, and HD audio passthrough is a minor aspect of the HDMI implementation, Sigma and Realtek have absolutely no excuse for making huge chips consuming 8 - 10 W for media streamer functionality.

Now, Marvell is doing the same thing (the ARMADA 1000 is basically for AC-powered STBs).

Unfortunately, the market for media streamers is just not big enough for companies like NVIDIA and Qualcomm to care about. However, I hope to see companies like Broadcom or even AMLogic / Rockchip etc. make SoCs for the tablet market and repurpose them for innovative media streamers (like, a STB on-the-go type product).

Would building a custom system be possible using mini atx board and having a sata hdd cage to load hdd's in on the front panel.
I dont know much about this type of thing but would like to find out more.
Would this have any draw backs and could 3d be played back from a build like this
I would not be interested in streaming and only playing back my movies via hdd which are all iso files

I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken
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post #32 of 50 Old 06-03-2012, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post

Scary if true. ARM chips to date are lacking (no hd audio, etc.). If Sigma bows out too, we'll have little choice but to move to HTPC's once our existing players die. Re: Intel CE chips, I don't have much confidence, not yet anyway. Just look at hd audio issues with Boxee Box and them not even delivering the new SDK that supposedly addresses that and other issues to Boxee.

Ugh, this is the one thing I do not want to do. I do not want to build an HTPC as they are far, far more complicated than a stand alone media streamer.

Maybe I should buy a replacement Dune player now so that when my Dune Base 3.0 dies out, I have something to replace it...
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post #33 of 50 Old 06-03-2012, 02:32 PM
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The truth is that even affordable ARM chips these days can do HD decode. The Raspberry Pi, at $25 target price, is a full computer/board that contains enough GPU and CPU horsepower to decode Blu-Ray full-rate data. TI has some very nice OMAP chips (dual core!) for under a Jackson that will do it all in software, too.

Your next media player will live in your pocket, stream HD content wirelessly to your display, and come free with a two-year commitment to an limited data plan. And you can also call your mom from it! The convergence wars are over, and the cell phones won.


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post #34 of 50 Old 06-03-2012, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jwatte View Post

The truth is that even affordable ARM chips these days can do HD decode. The Raspberry Pi, at $25 target price, is a full computer/board that contains enough GPU and CPU horsepower to decode Blu-Ray full-rate data. TI has some very nice OMAP chips (dual core!) for under a Jackson that will do it all in software, too.

Your next media player will live in your pocket, stream HD content wirelessly to your display, and come free with a two-year commitment to an limited data plan. And you can also call your mom from it! The convergence wars are over, and the cell phones won.


ARM has not won anything yet, is has not proved itself at anything yet, So while these 25-100$ solutions sounds nice they have not been proven. And even so cell phone will never make a media player, who is going to leave there cellphone home for there kids to watch movies. It will always be a dedicated player be it built into a tv or stb. And while things like raspberry pi sound awesome, if you look at the true well built solutions like the cottoncandy they are still 200$+ Once you start adding on rf/bluetooth/IR/ storage, these simple ARM solutions become big and bulky.

And I agree wireless video streaming is the future, I dont think it will be from your pocket, But more like a centralized Home server, Plug and play command center so to speak that channels all your video needs to whatever tv its needed at.
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post #35 of 50 Old 06-03-2012, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jwatte View Post

The truth is that even affordable ARM chips these days can do HD decode. The Raspberry Pi, at $25 target price, is a full computer/board that contains enough GPU and CPU horsepower to decode Blu-Ray full-rate data.

While impressive, let's not make the Pi more than it is...
http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/01/r...nd-tinker-toy/
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post #36 of 50 Old 06-04-2012, 08:04 AM
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This has been coming for a while. ARM based chipsets (often Mali-400 GPU like the Allwinner A10) are rapidly catching up with the video performance of the specialist media chipsets.

The lower cost and greater versatility of the ARM chipsets are better for the majority of user's needs. As long as most video content plays back fine (as it does on most modern ARM chipsets) then having Android with it's many Apps provides a better user experience than the limited firmware on traditional media players.

The situation is an interesting one at the moment because the ARM chips lack the specialist media player features (7.1 audio, truly universal format support, 3D) of the more recent media chipsets. So chips like the 1186 have some life left in them yet..

ARM chipsets running Android need two things to become totally dominant, both of which I would expect to come in the next 12 months:

First, better/complete video format support and full support for HD audio. Basically replicating the hardware features of the 1186/8643.

Second, a 'killer' piece of software. Android lacks a killer jukebox App. An Android port of XBMC available through Play Store (free trial version - paid full version) would make XBMC a fortune and would help shift a lot of ARM+Android boxes!

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post #37 of 50 Old 06-18-2012, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post


ROFL. Every single form of DRM has been and will be cracked. Even Diablo 3 will eventually be reverse engineered. Nothing will be harder to do. Companies like DVD Fab will always exist and .nzb's and torrent's will still carry on. Look at all the webrips and VOD rips - what DRM? what premium channels? what copyright junk is taking a toll? Put all that together with a HTPC and what you are predicting is rubbish. Nothing will change . . . .

Ever hear of Cinavia? That's a problem for some people with media players and blu-ray players. Cinavia has not yet been cracked.

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post #38 of 50 Old 06-18-2012, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverBlade View Post


Ugh, this is the one thing I do not want to do. I do not want to build an HTPC as they are far, far more complicated than a stand alone media streamer.


Maybe I should buy a replacement Dune player now so that when my Dune Base 3.0 dies out, I have something to replace it...

I agree completely. Many people do not want to build an HTPC because they are far more complicated to deal with - codecs, players, HD audio iddues, etc. Media players and streamers are much simpler and get the job done nicely for many people. I'm amazed that in this digital age, media players are in trouble. Shouldn't every home have like 2 or 3 of these by now like dvd or blu-ray players?

Of course many blu-ray players and even tvs now included built-in media support but they are usually a far cry from a dedicated streamer.

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post #39 of 50 Old 06-18-2012, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Ever hear of Cinavia? That's a problem for some people with media players and blu-ray players. Cinavia has not yet been cracked.

Anybody who knows anything will avoid it easily.
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post #40 of 50 Old 06-19-2012, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Ever hear of Cinavia? That's a problem for some people with media players and blu-ray players. Cinavia has not yet been cracked.
Although Cinavia is a problem with new BluRay players, which are all required to support it as part of the BDA license, I am not aware of any media players that have implemented Cinavia -- even those few with a BDA license. To my knowledge, the Neo 550 was the only player to threaten to implement Cinavia as part of the BDA license certification -- but that never happened. If you are aware of any media players that have implemented Cinavia, I would like to know about them because right now the best defense against Cinavia is a media player.

And yes you are correct that Cinavia has not been cracked and it is frankly looking like it never will be. It comes standard on all new Sony BD releases. Other than exploiting a hole in PS3 firmware that was subsequently patched, the DVD Fab folks have made no reported progress on Cinavia removal in 2 yr -- they have basically swept it under the rug at their forum.

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post #41 of 50 Old 06-19-2012, 09:29 AM
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And from what I understand Cinavia only affects playback if the streamer supports it. So, even though Cinavia will reside in BD rips you make, if the streamer doesn't detect the watermark, it'll play fine.

HD Media Keen Videosaurus
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post #42 of 50 Old 06-19-2012, 10:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Ever hear of Cinavia? That's a problem for some people with media players and blu-ray players. Cinavia has not yet been cracked.
Can you please tell me of ONE media player with Cinavia?
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post #43 of 50 Old 06-19-2012, 10:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Brajesh View Post

And from what I understand Cinavia only affects playback if the streamer supports it. So, even though Cinavia will reside in BD rips you make, if the streamer doesn't detect the watermark, it'll play fine.
this is correct.
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post #44 of 50 Old 06-19-2012, 10:29 AM
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Can you please tell me of ONE media player with Cinavia?

PS3.

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post #45 of 50 Old 06-19-2012, 12:03 PM
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PS3.
I would consider the PS3 to be the same caliber of "media player" as any other BD player that has DLNA streaming capability.

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post #46 of 50 Old 06-19-2012, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Although Cinavia is a problem with new BluRay players, which are all required to support it as part of the BDA license, I am not aware of any media players that have implemented Cinavia -- even those few with a BDA license. To my knowledge, the Neo 550 was the only player to threaten to implement Cinavia as part of the BDA license certification -- but that never happened. If you are aware of any media players that have implemented Cinavia, I would like to know about them because right now the best defense against Cinavia is a media player.
And yes you are correct that Cinavia has not been cracked and it is frankly looking like it never will be. It comes standard on all new Sony BD releases. Other than exploiting a hole in PS3 firmware that was subsequently patched, the DVD Fab folks have made no reported progress on Cinavia removal in 2 yr -- they have basically swept it under the rug at their forum.

You are correct, there are currently no media players that I'm aware of that support Cinavia, which is a good thing. But there is always that threat looming that they might. The Dunes in particular are thought in their forums to possibly be headed in that direction since some of their models include blu-ray drives and also support ISO playback. That seems to be an area of concern - many like the idea if ISO playback with full menu support, but that gets into tricky territory with blu-ray licensing if your player wants to support full menus with ISO playback. The 1186 players get around that issue mostly, as they do support ISO playback with some menu functionality without needing a blu-ray license (and Cinavia).

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post #47 of 50 Old 06-19-2012, 03:27 PM
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Wow... I've been away from the forums for awhile and I see RealTek "Bowing Out"!!

That is truely sad... because they did help bring media player prices to be "more affordable." The thing for media players is that it does take development and time, even after the product is released it still requires some work... I have yet owned or seen a media player that is "perfect" out of the box on launch day. Most require more work or more time to improve - problems that users discover after or during use due to many different home network media configurations. Not everyone just plugs in a USB external HDD and call it a day! With so many different operation systems or middleware for many different media players - it drains alot of resources and takes a long time for continued support and development = which is WHY I see brands moving towards Android OS = one platform for many different media player brands. Android OS of course have their own issues, but these issues can be improved or fixed upon as the OS and media player abilities continue to mature. it is the Android OS that is driving the move towards ARM SoC for media players.

I disagree that growth is slowing down... what I do see happening is that "Newbies" or "causal" media player customers being snapped up by WD, Apple, and Rokus... these "new" customers if they become more serious with their media library will research further or move towards complicated or more extreme hardware such as the ones discussed in this "media streamer forum." But, I think a good portion of them are happy with their WDTVs, Apple, and Rokus and decided not to move forward with exploiring other options!

Cheers!

Cameron
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post #48 of 50 Old 06-19-2012, 04:01 PM
 
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PS3.
I thought you were smarter than this Gus..
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post #49 of 50 Old 06-19-2012, 04:12 PM
 
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You are correct, there are currently no media players that I'm aware of that support Cinavia, which is a good thing. But there is always that threat looming that they might. The Dunes in particular are thought in their forums to possibly be headed in that direction since some of their models include blu-ray drives and also support ISO playback. That seems to be an area of concern - many like the idea if ISO playback with full menu support, but that gets into tricky territory with blu-ray licensing if your player wants to support full menus with ISO playback. The 1186 players get around that issue mostly, as they do support ISO playback with some menu functionality without needing a blu-ray license (and Cinavia).
I love the FUD with Cinavia! Kelson used to be the doomsayer of Cinavia but even he has calmed down the last few months.
Do you not understand that if a media player company were to implement Cinavia in their products they would be out of business in short order?
"The Dunes are headed in that direction" really? REALLY? I must have missed that post by HDI that they were "headed in that direction". Cinavia discs have been out for what..almost 2 YEARS now? Yep, I certainly think it likely that Dune will implement Cinavia in their products. Rumor has it Popcorn Hour is "headed in that direction" as well.
sheesh..you guys are KILLING me with this stuff...
And no, Gus, sorry, but the PS3 is NOT a media player. It is a gaming console with bonus features...
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post #50 of 50 Old 06-19-2012, 10:03 PM
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I love the FUD with Cinavia! Kelson used to be the doomsayer of Cinavia but even he has calmed down the last few months.
I don't know what FUD you are referring to; I've only recited the facts about Cinavia. You seem determined to discount it at every turn and ridicule any who want to discuss it. Cinavia is real, persistent and spreading. As you say, the first title with Cinavia was released almost 2 yr ago and after 2 yr there is no crack. There are currently more than 65 Cinavia protected titles. Since Feb, any new device seeking a BDA license must implement Cinavia. For dedicated media players that don't have a BDA license there is currently no reason for them to implement Cinavia -- so there is no real reason to worry about the unlicensed players. These are the facts. When I see the facts misstated I tend to counter with corrective discussion and not ridicule.

On the other hand, there are people who come here to discuss using various BD players as DLNA media streamers. The list of players that are becoming Cinavia enabled is growing as even some late 2011 models are getting enabled with recent firmware updates. So should we just ignore Cinavia and not let these people know that they may not be able to stream just about any Sony BD title from the last year and a half -- just because you think it's all FUD? Fortunately, that is not the way this forum works.

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