*Official* Mede8er X3D (1000 | 800 | 600) Streamer Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:06 AM
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the options in the current firmware 1.0.4 are the following

HDMI AUTO
NTSC
PAL
480P
576P
720P 50HZ
720P 60HZ
1080I 50HZ
1080I 60HZ
1080P 50HZ
1080P 60HZ

i have mine with hdmi auto, and i let the tv or projector choose the resolution, depends of the contents but normally plays at 24, 30
you can force the tv/ projector to play at 1080p / 60hz you just need to choose the correct resolution 1080p / 60hz,

but can you expand what really bothers you about this settings and resolution ?

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Old 12-08-2012, 01:45 PM
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I have an answer. What happens is the tv will not play the 25fps files. They are converting it to 50hz which is not compatible with 60/120hz tvs in the usa. The tv will not display the video and will throw error messages about resolution/etc. I've tested it on my tvs. Turn the auto frame rate feature off and you get very choppy playback on all 25fps files. They are not watchable.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich1111 View Post

I have an answer. What happens is the tv will not play the 25fps files. They are converting it to 50hz which is not compatible with 60/120hz tvs in the usa. The tv will not display the video and will throw error messages about resolution/etc. I've tested it on my tvs. Turn the auto frame rate feature off and you get very choppy playback on all 25fps files. They are not watchable.

I think I have seen something similar when I set my media player to output to 50hz by accident, I get an unsupported format error

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Old 12-08-2012, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canton160 View Post

the options in the current firmware 1.0.4 are the following
HDMI AUTO
NTSC
PAL
480P
576P
720P 50HZ
720P 60HZ
1080I 50HZ
1080I 60HZ
1080P 50HZ
1080P 60HZ
i have mine with hdmi auto, and i let the tv or projector choose the resolution, depends of the contents but normally plays at 24, 30
you can force the tv/ projector to play at 1080p / 60hz you just need to choose the correct resolution 1080p / 60hz,
but can you expand what really bothers you about this settings and resolution ?

Hey, thanks for that info. Nothing bothers me at all about those options. That's great. I was just curious how it handles framerates like 25fps and 50fps when outputting 1080p 60Hz on a US tv. I would assume there is some framerate conversion that must happen so I was curious how well it handles the framerates during the conversion. Any stuttering from 25fps or 50fps files when output is set to 60Hz? Is pulldown applied or does it duplicate frames? Just curious how these framerates end up getting output to 60Hz.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich1111 View Post

I have an answer. What happens is the tv will not play the 25fps files. They are converting it to 50hz which is not compatible with 60/120hz tvs in the usa. The tv will not display the video and will throw error messages about resolution/etc. I've tested it on my tvs. Turn the auto frame rate feature off and you get very choppy playback on all 25fps files. They are not watchable.

Ah, so that sounds like an unfortunate issue then for me, and possibly a deal-breaker, as I have many files in 25fps and 50fps. I understand why the tv won't display 50Hz. My Micca throws up that error too if I try to force a 50Hz output. But if I leave the Micca on auto, it knows my set is 60Hz so if I play a 25fps file or 50fps file on auto, it plays it at 60Hz. I can also just manually leave the resolution set to 1080p@60Hz, and again, the Micca will play the 25fps and 50fps files smoothly at that setting.

Seriously, this player won't play them smoothly at 60fps? Wow, the Micca I currently own has framerate issues in 3D mode, but it seems to play my 25fps and 50fps files just fine outputting at 60Hz in 2D mode. In fact, I just got through watching a 25fps mkv file tonight on my Micca, and it played back perfectly fine with no hint of stutter at all on my 60Hz LCD set. I'm very surprised that this player can't play those files smoothly at 60Hz. So basically if you live in the US and have a lot of 25fps or 50fps files then this isn't the right player? Sorry to hear that.

I need a player that is capable of playing various standard framerates all smoothly at 60Hz to be compatible with my US LCD tv. Why should it be an issue with this player? The Micca is based on the 1186 chip and so is this player, and I use the Micca for 25fps files.

Can others confirm that 25fps and 50fps files are choppy and unwatchable on an American 60Hz 1080p LCD set? It's just hard to believe this, since by the list of available resolutions canton posted above, it looks like the same list of resolutions available in the Micca. I just can't imagine why this player is unable to make the conversion to 60Hz smoothly when the Micca can.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:30 AM
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We will investigate the 25fps to 60hz for USA customers.

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Old 12-09-2012, 05:07 AM
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I'm surprised to hear that the TVs seem to be a problem in the U.S., not just the players.

I thought basically all modern flatscreens could handle 50 Hz / 60Hz plus most all of the common current framerates.

At least that's the way it is here in Europe.
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:34 AM
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Picture quality in NTSC vs. PAL
PAL lines go out at 50 fields per second (since Europe uses a 50 hertz power supply) i.e. 25 alternating lines. PAL televisions produce 25 frames per second, that causes motion to be displayed faster. PAL may have fewer frames per second, but it also has more lines than NTSC. PAL television broadcasts have 625 lines of resolution, compared to NTSC's 525. More lines means more visual information, which equals better picture quality and resolution.



source: http://www.diffen.com/difference/NTSC_vs_PAL

looks like ntsc tv manufacturers have problems handling pal , but not the other way around .

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/281482/which-current-tvs-can-display-pal-with-no-conversion

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Old 12-09-2012, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Hey, thanks for that info. Nothing bothers me at all about those options. That's great. I was just curious how it handles framerates like 25fps and 50fps when outputting 1080p 60Hz on a US tv. I would assume there is some framerate conversion that must happen so I was curious how well it handles the framerates during the conversion. Any stuttering from 25fps or 50fps files when output is set to 60Hz? Is pulldown applied or does it duplicate frames? Just curious how these framerates end up getting output to 60Hz.

As long as I have Auto Frame rate turned off on the X3D my 25fps videos play (using a 1080p Plasma TV). If I have auto frame rate turned on I get sound but no video. This is connected directly to the TV (no AVR in the middle)

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Old 12-09-2012, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Ah, so that sounds like an unfortunate issue then for me, and possibly a deal-breaker, as I have many files in 25fps and 50fps. I understand why the tv won't display 50Hz. My Micca throws up that error too if I try to force a 50Hz output. But if I leave the Micca on auto, it knows my set is 60Hz so if I play a 25fps file or 50fps file on auto, it plays it at 60Hz. I can also just manually leave the resolution set to 1080p@60Hz, and again, the Micca will play the 25fps and 50fps files smoothly at that setting.
Seriously, this player won't play them smoothly at 60fps? Wow, the Micca I currently own has framerate issues in 3D mode, but it seems to play my 25fps and 50fps files just fine outputting at 60Hz in 2D mode. In fact, I just got through watching a 25fps mkv file tonight on my Micca, and it played back perfectly fine with no hint of stutter at all on my 60Hz LCD set. I'm very surprised that this player can't play those files smoothly at 60Hz. So basically if you live in the US and have a lot of 25fps or 50fps files then this isn't the right player? Sorry to hear that.
I need a player that is capable of playing various standard framerates all smoothly at 60Hz to be compatible with my US LCD tv. Why should it be an issue with this player? The Micca is based on the 1186 chip and so is this player, and I use the Micca for 25fps files.
Can others confirm that 25fps and 50fps files are choppy and unwatchable on an American 60Hz 1080p LCD set? It's just hard to believe this, since by the list of available resolutions canton posted above, it looks like the same list of resolutions available in the Micca. I just can't imagine why this player is unable to make the conversion to 60Hz smoothly when the Micca can.

I noticed this on my TV as well with the "Auto Framerate" option turned on when trying to play PAL sourced material. With the option turned off my TV displayed the material without any hiccups though, others may want to try this as well and post their results. My TV is a Sony KDS-60A3000 in case anyone is wondering.

On a completely separate note, what are people getting for transfer speeds over LAN? My LAN is entirely gigabit but I'm only getting 10-13MB/second transfer speeds from HD to HD. Even with 5900 RPM hard drives shouldn't the transfer speeds be somewhere in the 25-30MB/second range over a GB network? Can the Mede8er just not handle such speeds? If anyone else can post their transfer speed results maybe we can shed some light on this. Thanks
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Old 12-09-2012, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoxIn4 View Post

I noticed this on my TV as well with the "Auto Framerate" option turned on when trying to play PAL sourced material. With the option turned off my TV displayed the material without any hiccups though, others may want to try this as well and post their results. My TV is a Sony KDS-60A3000 in case anyone is wondering.
On a completely separate note, what are people getting for transfer speeds over LAN? My LAN is entirely gigabit but I'm only getting 10-13MB/second transfer speeds from HD to HD. Even with 5900 RPM hard drives shouldn't the transfer speeds be somewhere in the 25-30MB/second range over a GB network? Can the Mede8er just not handle such speeds? If anyone else can post their transfer speed results maybe we can shed some light on this. Thanks

thats good to hear about autofrmerate.
thats is the normal speed the realtek 1186 cant handle transfering , no more than that.

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Old 12-09-2012, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by canton160 View Post

thats good to hear about autofrmerate.
thats is the normal speed the realtek 1186 cant handle transfering , no more than that.

Well that's disappointing, but oh well, it is what it is. Thanks for the quick reply!
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:27 AM
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One thing I do dislike abut the 1000 is the power supply for the US. The pin adapter for US outlets shifts the center of weight of the transformer too far away from the wall, with no support, so it hangs precariously in the air. I think there needs to be a better option that plugs directly into the wall without a pin adapter.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

As long as I have Auto Frame rate turned off on the X3D my 25fps videos play (using a 1080p Plasma TV). If I have auto frame rate turned on I get sound but no video. This is connected directly to the TV (no AVR in the middle)

Thanks for the info. Do you then set the option to 1080P 60HZ instead of HDMI auto?
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:38 AM
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It's looking like the Synology NFS issue may turn out to be a Mede8er script mounting error. Time will tell.

http://www.mede8erforum.com/index.php/topic,9214.0.html
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:53 AM
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I started messing around with my samsung un55es6100fxza tv and the med1000x3 and found that if i turn on a setting on my tv called auto motion plus and keep auto frame rate off on the med1000x3 it seems to compensate for my 25fps files and removes the jerkiness/stutter. However this setting gives most of my movies what I have heard is called the soap opera effect, where movies tend to lose their cinematic quality and look like they were filmed as a soap opera.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canton160 View Post

Picture quality in NTSC vs. PAL
PAL lines go out at 50 fields per second (since Europe uses a 50 hertz power supply) i.e. 25 alternating lines. PAL televisions produce 25 frames per second, that causes motion to be displayed faster. PAL may have fewer frames per second, but it also has more lines than NTSC. PAL television broadcasts have 625 lines of resolution, compared to NTSC's 525. More lines means more visual information, which equals better picture quality and resolution.

source: http://www.diffen.com/difference/NTSC_vs_PAL
looks like ntsc tv manufacturers have problems handling pal , but not the other way around .
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/281482/which-current-tvs-can-display-pal-with-no-conversion
OK, I guess it's because multi-system, multi-voltage sets are common here.
Also, the problems are because of the 50HZ vs. 60HZ situation, not PAL and NTSC . . . we're also talking about HD stuff . . . but it all boils down to file fps (25/50 or 30/60), corresponding to 50/60HZ, or not.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rich1111 View Post

I started messing around with my samsung un55es6100fxza tv and the med1000x3 and found that if i turn on a setting on my tv called auto motion plus and keep auto frame rate off on the med1000x3 it seems to compensate for my 25fps files and removes the jerkiness/stutter. However this setting gives most of my movies what I have heard is called the soap opera effect, where movies tend to lose their cinematic quality and look like they were filmed as a soap opera.

in your case theres 3 solutions

1- live with jerkiness/stutter
2- live with soap opera efect
3- convert the 25 fps content or move to europe biggrin.gif

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Old 12-09-2012, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mede8er1 View Post

We will investigate the 25fps to 60hz for USA customers.
Mede8er1

Please look into 50fps into 60Hz also, as I have a good assortment of clips of both 25fps and 50fps. Thank you. Glad to hear this will be looked into.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

One thing I do dislike abut the 1000 is the power supply for the US. The pin adapter for US outlets shifts the center of weight of the transformer too far away from the wall, with no support, so it hangs precariously in the air. I think there needs to be a better option that plugs directly into the wall without a pin adapter.

I agree, I do not like that design for exactly that reason. I tried the Iconbit last year and it came with the same type of plug and I hated it for that exact reason - thje adapter weighed it down and it hung precariously out of the socket, and it looked rather dangerous actually. There should eb a dedicated US AC cord like the Himedia/Micca. Any chance of that happening and becoming available?
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:12 AM
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I would like to hear other owner's experience playing back 25fps and 50fps files at 1080p@60Hz on a US LCD tv. I have a hard time believing that they would not play smoothly as you would think Mede8er would have that of that, and my Micca plays them fine.

On that note, if left on auto, shouldn't the player detect your set and output it to the best compatible output? If it's connected to an American 1080p/60Hz plasma or LCD set and you leave it on auto and play 25fps/50fps video files, shouldn't it output it at 60Hz automatically since it detects it's connected to a 60Hz set?
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rich1111 View Post

I started messing around with my samsung un55es6100fxza tv and the med1000x3 and found that if i turn on a setting on my tv called auto motion plus and keep auto frame rate off on the med1000x3 it seems to compensate for my 25fps files and removes the jerkiness/stutter. However this setting gives most of my movies what I have heard is called the soap opera effect, where movies tend to lose their cinematic quality and look like they were filmed as a soap opera.

Keep in mind that there is a difference between a stutter from improper framerate conversion playback like what we are discussing, and natural film judder. Auto motion plus in the Samsung user frame interpolation to create additional frames to help smoothen film judder, which results in the soap opera effect. It should not be necessary to use something like that just to hide improper playback of 25fps/50fps files.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Keep in mind that there is a difference between a stutter from improper framerate conversion playback like what we are discussing, and natural film judder. Auto motion plus in the Samsung user frame interpolation to create additional frames to help smoothen film judder, which results in the soap opera effect. It should not be necessary to use something like that just to hide improper playback of 25fps/50fps files.

in a 60hz panel ? 25fps/50fps ? you are wrong, even using a cmputer you need to mess around.

read this topic

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=163655&page=3

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Old 12-09-2012, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoxIn4 View Post

I noticed this on my TV as well with the "Auto Framerate" option turned on when trying to play PAL sourced material. With the option turned off my TV displayed the material without any hiccups though, others may want to try this as well and post their results. My TV is a Sony KDS-60A3000 in case anyone is wondering.
On a completely separate note, what are people getting for transfer speeds over LAN? My LAN is entirely gigabit but I'm only getting 10-13MB/second transfer speeds from HD to HD. Even with 5900 RPM hard drives shouldn't the transfer speeds be somewhere in the 25-30MB/second range over a GB network? Can the Mede8er just not handle such speeds? If anyone else can post their transfer speed results maybe we can shed some light on this. Thanks

This is also tied in with the processor, which can't handle the speed. If it was a faster processor then you'd get faster transfer speeds.

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Old 12-09-2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by eagle_2 View Post

Ah, so that sounds like an unfortunate issue then for me, and possibly a deal-breaker, as I have many files in 25fps and 50fps. I understand why the tv won't display 50Hz. My Micca throws up that error too if I try to force a 50Hz output. But if I leave the Micca on auto, it knows my set is 60Hz so if I play a 25fps file or 50fps file on auto, it plays it at 60Hz. I can also just manually leave the resolution set to 1080p@60Hz, and again, the Micca will play the 25fps and 50fps files smoothly at that setting.
Seriously, this player won't play them smoothly at 60fps? Wow, the Micca I currently own has framerate issues in 3D mode, but it seems to play my 25fps and 50fps files just fine outputting at 60Hz in 2D mode. In fact, I just got through watching a 25fps mkv file tonight on my Micca, and it played back perfectly fine with no hint of stutter at all on my 60Hz LCD set. I'm very surprised that this player can't play those files smoothly at 60Hz. So basically if you live in the US and have a lot of 25fps or 50fps files then this isn't the right player? Sorry to hear that.
I need a player that is capable of playing various standard framerates all smoothly at 60Hz to be compatible with my US LCD tv. Why should it be an issue with this player? The Micca is based on the 1186 chip and so is this player, and I use the Micca for 25fps files.
Can others confirm that 25fps and 50fps files are choppy and unwatchable on an American 60Hz 1080p LCD set? It's just hard to believe this, since by the list of available resolutions canton posted above, it looks like the same list of resolutions available in the Micca. I just can't imagine why this player is unable to make the conversion to 60Hz smoothly when the Micca can.

I am in the same boat. I live in the US also. If the player isn't suited for people that live in the US then we should know about that. Damn, too bad.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

As long as I have Auto Frame rate turned off on the X3D my 25fps videos play (using a 1080p Plasma TV). If I have auto frame rate turned on I get sound but no video. This is connected directly to the TV (no AVR in the middle)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich1111 View Post

I started messing around with my samsung un55es6100fxza tv and the med1000x3 and found that if i turn on a setting on my tv called auto motion plus and keep auto frame rate off on the med1000x3 it seems to compensate for my 25fps files and removes the jerkiness/stutter. However this setting gives most of my movies what I have heard is called the soap opera effect, where movies tend to lose their cinematic quality and look like they were filmed as a soap opera.

this comments above says will play 25fps in ntsc correctly like micca does.

and secondly plenty of tvs can be culprit of seeing jerkiness during 25fps read this interesting discusson about apple tv2 not playing 25fps in 50/ 60hz tvs...... and i had one apple tv2 and it played fine to me in 50hz, 60hz whatever the framerate was.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2780374?start=0&tstart=0

and to had things more interesting, do you guys with a Apple TV3 and a projector capable to read the framerate , can post what is the framerate output by the Apple TV3 and showed in projector ?

Mine shows 23,99hz when playing rented HD videos, yes 23,99hz shouldn´t i seeing issues every 40 seconds ? well im not, maybe im blind like a bat , thats why i see movies during night time smile.gif

projector espon tw6000 and it doesnt have any frame interpolation in settings,(only tw9000) its a 480hz panel for 3D and 240hz for 2D.

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Old 12-09-2012, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by djc11369 View Post

It's looking like the Synology NFS issue may turn out to be a Mede8er script mounting error. Time will tell.
http://www.mede8erforum.com/index.php/topic,9214.0.html
Oh, this would be awesome if this turned out to be the case. Except for the NFS 32K issue, Synology has been a great NAS to use.

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Old 12-09-2012, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mede8er1 View Post

eagle_2
Here is a image of screen pixel calibration size in Video Play ( Screen size was adjusted in the Setup Menu)
http://www.mede8er.org/artwork/temp/Mede8er_x3d_screen_size.jpg
Mede8er1

Thanks mede8er1. I know which will be my next player.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by canton160 View Post

in a 60hz panel ? 25fps/50fps ? you are wrong, even using a cmputer you need to mess around.
read this topic
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=163655&page=3

Then why can my Micca actually play back 25fps video smoothly on my 60Hz LCD panel? I just watched a 25fps video last night and it played beautifully, and I'm very sensitive to framerate stutter. Whatever the Micca is doing with 25fps files, it's doing it right.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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@ mede8er1,

Do you know if there is any pending fix for the seamless branch issues? I know this is pretty much universal for every player that relies on BD Lite, but didn't know if this is something that can be corrected individually by each developer(s)

Cheers,
Damian

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