The Oppo 95 very good image, the 93 too much video noise is there a streamer that has 95 quality without Blu Ray? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 07-18-2012, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a Sony Vw 95 and am looking for the best image possible for my Bd folders Iso's, 3D, MKv and ts. For music, I need spdif out, to stream to my accuphase. For image of course HDMI.

I had the Oppo 95 from a friend and the picture was awesome, like looking through an open window! But as I had a very good audio player (Accuphase 67) and my Denon amp, could handle also HD audio files, I went for a Oppo 93. Without being bad, the picture has much more video noise and I will return it!

As I rip my original Blu ray and cd to hard disc to use them at my holiday home, I not really need a BD player. So all I need is a player, that can stream all my files, flac , hd audio, Iso, Bd folders as close as possible to the natural picture of an Oppo 95. There were some test of inexpensive players that should deliver, but I really want to ask your opinion, if it is possible to find an not too expensive streamer, with great possibilities and awesome, noiselessness picture! If a better Bd comes out later, I can still buy it and have a good picture for my files meanwhile!

I like my HT, wine and pretty girls. But...am I the only one
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post #2 of 23 Old 07-18-2012, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indieke2 View Post


I had the Oppo 95 from a friend and the picture was awesome, like looking through an open window! But as I had a very good audio player (Accuphase 67) and my Denon amp, could handle also HD audio files, I went for a Oppo 93. Without being bad, the picture has much more video noise and I will return it!

As pointed out in the OPPO thread where you also posted this, both of those players have identical video hardware and performance, so something is wrong with your testing.

-Bill
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post #3 of 23 Old 07-18-2012, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes they should have. Testing has been done in the same conditions. Everything "flat", same cable, same projector even same ac socket. It is true they haveare the same decoding chips and everything, so I was surprised too!

It was obvious from the moment I turned the 93 on. I took the 93, because everybody said changes have been made to make the 95 SOUND better, like different powering.

But on the french HC forum, my findings were confirmed. I did not even talk about the video - noise, it was stated before I did. The seller said I should check my cables, but how can something be wrong with the cables, when I used the same one's as with the 95? My friend and his wife, 2 HC enthusiasts, were as surprised as I am.

But for me there is no doubt about the difference. The 95, is really like an open window to the world, the 93, has a more video image, contrast is also higher (again same neutral settings. If you think I can do something to make the 93 look like the 95, you are welcome to advice. Also said on the French forum about the video-noise, once you had a95, impossible to go back to the 93.

So is there a problem with some European units?The unit is zone-free, but then so was the 95. The difference, also a film-like experience, against a harder video-like image, also integrate me. As the native contrast of the 93 looks higher, it can be the reason the video noise is more visible too. I tried to soften the contrast, but not come near the image of the 95. It is not so obvious that something wrong with the unit. Some movies is is very visible, others, much less.

Jurassic Park 3 is a bit noisy. The opening scene with the boat, on the 95 a bit of noise is visible, but the green mountains of the island are smoother, then with the 93. In the international, there are a lot of scene's that show the difference. When Naomi watts, is phoning the murdered guy's wife. the close ups of her face are not 100 % smooth with the 95, but with the 93 pixels in ehr face are really d"dancing". When the husband comes in, the room is a lot of noisier, as in the museum where the two men meet. it is like with one player the movie is shot in 800 asa and the other in 200.......

So I not take the risk, I prefer to look at a streamer, that could come close to the 95, and not have the BD playback from disc, at a fair price, and maybe later buy something that completely satisfy me. Suggestions are welcome.

I like my HT, wine and pretty girls. But...am I the only one
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post #4 of 23 Old 07-18-2012, 09:28 PM
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Did you check the Oppo "default" settings on the 93? Maybe the internal Oppo settings were different between the two?

Oppo is usually pretty good about qc. But I have noticed that the delivered, from-factory default settings can vary. (Maybe happens during qc testing?)
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post #5 of 23 Old 07-18-2012, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I of course checked. Everything was on "zero", and the output of HDMI on auto ( tied other video output setting briefely). I can't see any place, where the setting would be different. I would think something wrong with teh unit, but as my findings were confirmed on the French HC forum, I guess it could have something to do with the powering, which is not the same.

I like my HT, wine and pretty girls. But...am I the only one
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post #6 of 23 Old 07-18-2012, 09:44 PM
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Oppo would be interested in this, whether it's systemic or just that unit - hope you contact them.
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post #7 of 23 Old 07-18-2012, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I continued the discussion about the Oppo on the dedicated thread. But I not think something was wrong with the unit,as the findings of other testers in France were the same....

I like my HT, wine and pretty girls. But...am I the only one
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post #8 of 23 Old 07-19-2012, 01:16 AM
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Why they could have the same problem as you.

There are so many possibilities.... bad cap made it into a batch. software bug, settings issues, power noise, etc...

There are no streamers or HTPC's in existance that can compare with the OPPO on PQ and Video Quality benchmarks.... wasting your time here....

check anandtech for some examples of how poor most streamers do on torture benchmarks.....
subjective is subjective so I wont comment other than I enjoy the PQ of my dune on 1080P content.

its DVD performance leaves much to be desired though.

and BTW: by not contacting Oppo you're just shouting out loud to the folks here that you don't really want to understand or solve the problem. Can't imagine that after spending $500 but everyone has their own priorities.
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post #9 of 23 Old 07-19-2012, 01:26 AM - Thread Starter
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The Oppo representive has been contacted of course, but not called me back yet!

I like my HT, wine and pretty girls. But...am I the only one
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post #10 of 23 Old 07-19-2012, 03:02 AM
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does anybody compared the Oppo 93/95 with a Dune HD or some other Mediaplayer? What is the difference in the PQ? Can somebody give me some examples? I just curious how much better the Oppo is compared to a media streamer...
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post #11 of 23 Old 07-19-2012, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepardos View Post

does anybody compared the Oppo 93/95 with a Dune HD or some other Mediaplayer? What is the difference in the PQ? Can somebody give me some examples? I just curious how much better the Oppo is compared to a media streamer...

What kind of video display are you using? The quality difference may not be noticable on your equipment.
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post #12 of 23 Old 07-19-2012, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

What kind of video display are you using? The quality difference may not be noticable on your equipment.

I also have a Sony VPL-VW 95 Projector. Currently I use the Dune HD. I wonder if I would really see the difference and if yes, what exactly!?
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post #13 of 23 Old 07-19-2012, 08:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepardos View Post

I also have a Sony VPL-VW 95 Projector. Currently I use the Dune HD. I wonder if I would really see the difference and if yes, what exactly!?
Everybody hears things differently. everyone sees things differently. The only way you are going to know for sure if to put them both in your system and see for yourself. I have both a neotv 550 dune H1 and an Oppo 93 in my system. Do I see a difference in pic quality betwwen the Dune and the Oppo? Yes, but it is very slight and this is on a 125" screen.
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post #14 of 23 Old 07-19-2012, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepardos View Post

I also have a Sony VPL-VW 95 Projector. Currently I use the Dune HD. I wonder if I would really see the difference and if yes, what exactly!?

on real world video its harder.....

on cherry picked test and torture sequences its easy....

Pick and DVD or BD setup disc like AVIA, Home Theather Essentials and Spears and Munsel and these discs very clearly show you the differences in the players...

whether you can see them in test patterns or when watching a movie is only something you can decide.

http://www.amazon.com/Spears-High-Definition-Benchmark-Blu-ray-Edition/dp/B001UM29OC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1342720379&sr=8-1&keywords=Spears+and+Munsil


http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-Essentials-Basics-Blu-ray/dp/B000V6LST0/ref=sr_1_4?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1342720443&sr=1-4&keywords=Home+Theater+Essentials


The Dune will fail many of their tests.... The oppo will pass.
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post #15 of 23 Old 07-19-2012, 11:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sean_w_smith View Post

on real world video its harder.....
on cherry picked test and torture sequences its easy....
Pick and DVD or BD setup disc like AVIA, Home Theather Essentials and Spears and Munsel and these discs very clearly show you the differences in the players...
whether you can see them in test patterns or when watching a movie is only something you can decide.
http://www.amazon.com/Spears-High-Definition-Benchmark-Blu-ray-Edition/dp/B001UM29OC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1342720379&sr=8-1&keywords=Spears+and+Munsil
http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-Essentials-Basics-Blu-ray/dp/B000V6LST0/ref=sr_1_4?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1342720443&sr=1-4&keywords=Home+Theater+Essentials
The Dune will fail many of their tests.... The oppo will pass.
agree 100%! The bottom line is what is acceptable to YOU when viewing. My Dune fails a lot of the torture tests yet I see nothing that upsets me when viewing video and I have logged hundreds of hours on my Dunes...
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post #16 of 23 Old 09-13-2012, 02:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I have for the moment the mede8er x3. Less video-noise, but the sharpenining is very present. But I just bought it to have something to use. I again put it against the Oppo 95. The X3 gives a more electronic image, it looks like upscaled video, as the strength of the oppo is a much purer, movie-like image, that look much less processed. Notsame price-tag, I not expected better. The EE is a bit annoying though.

So, I wait for something better to come out for next year. I go 2 months to Asia, take the x3 with me, as a small hard disc, perfect! I like the soft of the x3, works all very well, and now must of the bugs are gone! Pq will be fine to play on a lcd, or plasma.

But when I come back, I will see hte comments on the PCH 400,with the new sigma chip, an sure then in December, there will be some news about the new Dune, who will also implant the new chip....

I like my HT, wine and pretty girls. But...am I the only one
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post #17 of 23 Old 09-13-2012, 12:46 PM
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using a cheap media player(200$) with a Sony Vw 95 ( 5000$ plus ) was not the smartest moves i would do in my HC....especially in 3D content

in my opinion get a oppo95 for piece of mind in video noise or a Cambridge Audio Azur 751 with 2 hdmi outputs, one from sound( your denon) other exclusive for video.

for cheaper alternatives you have the panasonic bdt500 but they dont play in same league.

please note one thing
i have a micca ep950 +samsung bd-d5500 + panasonic bdt220 and i dont see diferences in 2D BD or 3D

the reviews in magazines saying that the bdt220 performance match the bdt500 in 2D or 3D, and i agree from what i see from does devices build.

the only difference i see, was a few weeks ago( was spotted by accident) theres difference in 3D when using the micca, i spot more ghosting in subtitles than in other 2 blu-ray players, because it was a hardware/firmware issue in tw6000 (is under repair right now)

immedialty i start to note the 3D in a realtek 3D player has more crosstalk and ghosting than in a normal blu-ray player (200$) but is almost impossible to detect in 90% of 3D movie playback.
in 2D there no way this can be detect at naked eye.

conclusion and my personnel opinion and experience :

A) cheap media players, cheap blu-ray players , expensive blu-ray players , high end blu-ray players they all perform the same in 2D BD, you can spot differences with benchmarking

B) cheap blu-ray players, expensive blu-ray players , high end blu rays player , they all perform the same in 3D BD.... except the media players in 3D just a little difference.

due your own tests, get a BD like adele live at royal alber hall, its a BD with high video noise, and see what equipment performs better, with less video noise.

ps: i had a htpc with lav filters and it was by far the one that present better video image .

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post #18 of 23 Old 09-13-2012, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Not agree totally here and you are not clear. On one hand, you say that moving to a 200 $ streamer is not smart, on the Vw95, on the other hand you seem to say that cheap players do as good in PQ as expensive one's......

The mede8er, was necessary as a temporary solution as my HCPC broke down, and I found the Oppo95 too expensive, with all belles and whistles I not need. This little thing is marvelous to use and is not bad at all, except the sharpening, that makes thing look like unconverted dvd, instead of HD.
Not bothers on some displays, and for a novice, even on the Vw 95 it looks good.

The new streamers that are announced now, could do a better job. As my physical Bd's are in Belgium, and my hard disc in France, I just need a streamer that gives me good Pq. I will wait for the reviews of PCH 400, and the new Dunes. Meanwhile, without being perfect (but not bad), I use the 1000 x3, that is a pleasure to use, soft is really good, and it plays everything I throw at it.

I like my HT, wine and pretty girls. But...am I the only one
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post #19 of 23 Old 09-13-2012, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indieke2 View Post

Not agree totally here and you are not clear. On one hand, you say that moving to a 200 $ streamer is not smart, on the Vw95, on the other hand you seem to say that cheap players do as good in PQ as expensive one's......
The mede8er, was necessary as a temporary solution as my HCPC broke down, and I found the Oppo95 too expensive, with all belles and whistles I not need. This little thing is marvelous to use and is not bad at all, except the sharpening, that makes thing look like unconverted dvd, instead of HD.
Not bothers on some displays, and for a novice, even on the Vw 95 it looks good.
The new streamers that are announced now, could do a better job. As my physical Bd's are in Belgium, and my hard disc in France, I just need a streamer that gives me good Pq. I will wait for the reviews of PCH 400, and the new Dunes. Meanwhile, without being perfect (but not bad), I use the 1000 x3, that is a pleasure to use, soft is really good, and it plays everything I throw at it.



since i have a 1250€ epson tw6000 getting a 200€ blu-ray player is enough, i understand the limitacions of my HC In terms of PQ and what the epson + onkyo 609 with the qdeo can delivery, im not getting a better PQ with a oppo95 in my system.

but in your case , your sony is wonderfull machine, that deserves a high quality receiver and a matching blu-ray player, a expensive screen, along with fancy speakers, thats my opinion, if there are money to playball off course.

try to test one of the bdt220( 150€ amazon.de ) 320 or 500 and med8er, against the oppo 95 in terms of PQ with your sony

keep the med1000x3d its the best you cant get this days, i believe in terms of PQ will match the realtek.

Projector Mitsubishi HC5

Projector Optoma hd300x 

Av receiver Onkyo TX-NR 818

Oppo 103D

Media player Med1000x3D

 

 

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post #20 of 23 Old 09-13-2012, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Even with the Epson, you should get a better picture with the Oppo, that is weird. You also mean as good as the sigma, because the X3 uses the realtec chip. The A 40 comes with Vxp video-processing and that should on paper come close to Oppo quality.

I like my HT, wine and pretty girls. But...am I the only one
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post #21 of 23 Old 09-14-2012, 06:46 AM
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If the a 400 is properly implemented the quality should be better then oppo's marvel scaling, noise reduction, and sharpening i am told is better as well. You would be hard pressed to find people who prefer anything over genum vxp when it comes to processing...

Alot of this becomes mute if you watch mainly 1080p/24 content, unless your someone who stares at spears and munsil test patterns and looks for chroma upsampling quality. Or unless your devices is doing something strange like outputting incorrect levels or clipping whites. basically something it shouldnt be doing. Most decent players dont have these issues, at least most bluray players dont, media streamers can have issues crop up that you should look for or research, although the new generation coming out all this remains to be seen. I am expecting the a400 to get it right.... I cant imagine popcorn hour screwing something up with such a high end chip on board that is capable of doing everything proper.

If you watch alot of content such as dvd, or 720p files then this discussion becomes much more meaningful. Or you like processing (sharpening, or noise reduction of your content)..which many purists frown upon as they can introduce additional issues.
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post #22 of 23 Old 09-14-2012, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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I hate sharpening, that is just what I have been saying. That is why The Oppo 95 is so good, you CAN change a lot, but on flat it is perfect. The 1000 X, you could not get it right, if sharpening is already present....

I like my HT, wine and pretty girls. But...am I the only one
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post #23 of 23 Old 10-07-2012, 01:14 AM - Thread Starter
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There have been comment on a french site that the chip in the PCH A 400 has been rejected by Dune. Reason should be that it has too many bugs......

I am wondering if I should not just buy an Oppo 95, and just forget about anything else. My Sony VW 95 deserves it........

I like my HT, wine and pretty girls. But...am I the only one
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