Ripping large Blu Ray library (1000+), Recommendations needed for ripping method and playback device - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 55 Old 09-28-2012, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

I am not encoding anything. It is a single m2ts fiel with a mpls file, which contains the chapter information.
I know you are not, as neither do I.
I just stuck the MKV comment in there as a contextual add-on for other readers. Perhaps it would be better to characterize the conversion of .m2ts to MKV as a "re-muxing" rather than encoding, but isn't there something about subtitles that have to be recoded when going from .m2ts to MKV?

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post #32 of 55 Old 09-28-2012, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I know you are not, as neither do I.
I just stuck the MKV comment in there as a contextual add-on for other readers. Perhaps it would be better to characterize the conversion of .m2ts to MKV as a "re-muxing" rather than encoding, but isn't there something about subtitles that have to be recoded when going from .m2ts to MKV?

MakeMKV is supposed to have fixed that issue with their software, but I know that Dune players will not recognize forced subs with MKV.

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post #33 of 55 Old 09-28-2012, 10:38 AM
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Well, you can just rip movie only without re-encoding. Clown_BD and tsMuxer have been mentioned already for extracting the movie, and the container to be used depends on your playback device(s). With 1,000 BDs, that's gonna take a whole lot of hard drive space. But if that's what you want to do, it's certainly the simplest method. BTW, that's not "uncompressed"; there's compression alright, you're just *not* re-encoding. BD standard specifies H264 (also called AVC), VC, and MPEG2. MPEG2 was used a good deal early on for re-releases of older movies.

Let me offer another possible method: Quality-based encoding using X264 encoder, and one of the various front-ends for it, viz: Ripbot, Handbrake, et al.

Movie content varies considerably in its compressibility. Clean animation like WALL_E needs much less bitrate than a movie with pronounced grain, like, say, Defiance, or an action movie with a great deal of motion. The maximum allowable video bitrate for Blu-ray (40 Mbit/sec) is massive overkill for a movie like WALL_E. So if you *do* decide to re-encode, using the same target file size is a bad idea. You'll at times use far too much bitrate when it isn't needed, and conversely, some movies may have low bitrate artifacting and posterization/banding. Mind you, H264 degrades rather "gracefully" as you lower the bitrate. You have to go pretty low to get the macroblocking so characteristic of MPEG2. The main thing to look for are a softening of the picture, and then posterization/banding when bitrate gets low enough.

Re-encoding is a fraught issue with some, of course. Any re-encode (even to a higher bitrate) entails quality loss, however slight. If you're going to bother with re-encoding, you should aim for a quality level that satisfies you, viewing the content on your particular display. X264 encoder offers quality based encoding, the quality level being controlled by "CRF" (constant rate factor) values.

A CRF value of 18 should be nearly indistinguishable from the original to most people; higher values yield less quality, and smaller file sizes. I don't find screenshot comparisons to be particularly useful, since one doesn't view a movie as a series of stills. It has its place though for comparison purposes. Again, output size is unpredictable, but you can expect to save a considerable amount of space, at times cutting output size in half. X264 outputs AVC/H264.

Here's what I do:

1) Run a driver-level decrypter like AnyDVDHD or DVDFabPasskey in the background. Either one will remove the encryption on-the-fly, and you can work direct from disc, not having to rip (copy to hard drive) the movie first.

2) Open Ripbot and click add a project. Navigate to the BDMV folder, then STREAM. Select any *.m2ts file and let it analyze the disc. It will automatically select main movie and if it's spanned over multiple *.m2ts files, will join them. Wait for Ripbot to demux the streams to your project folder. Chapter timings will be included. Rarely, copy protection and/or a complex disc structure will prevent Ripbot from correctly joining all the *.m2ts files of main movie. It may occasionally be necessary to extract main movie first with Clown_BD, which invariably does it accurately, in my experience.

3) Select audio encoding. You can copy stream, for example, or use Aften to re-encode to 5.1 AC3 at 640 kbps.

4) Select video encoding. Select a CRF value or type one in. As to level, I use 4.0 for MKVs (see what your playback device wants). Use one of the preset speeds (slower preset yields smaller file output). The default tune is fine, but you can tune for Film, Animation, Grain, etc.

5) In Properties, you can crop and hardcode subtitles. Ripbot is usually accurate in its cropping values, but one should double-check them; also use the preview function. As to hardcoding subtitles, Ripbot will identify any embedded forced subs for you. You can build these into the picture, or the main subtitle track (the first one listed). As to cropping, it's your choice. Black bars don't consume much bitrate.

6) Selectable subtitles, also known as "soft" subs. You can include soft subs as well. (What sub format your playback device supports determines whether you need to convert them first).

7) Select output container, e.g. MKV. Give the project a name and save it. You can load multiple projects into the queue and do them overnight, for example.

8) You can edit the Ripbot config file to keep your preferred default settings.

I play my MKVs direct from external powered hard drives via USB on my LG 65" 65LW6500. I always hardcode any forced subs, but don't bother with selectable subs. My TV only likes *.srt subs, and it's a pain to convert BD *.sup files to *.srt. OCR always has mistakes, so one must edit them. I also need to use AC3 due to my setup. Again, playback device determines what format is required.

Anyway, there's one way. Good luck.
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post #34 of 55 Old 09-28-2012, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by trondmm View Post

Obviously, you won't be ripping 24h a day (unless you build a ripping robot)

That's not out of the question. If you can track down a Powerfile R200-BD/Crestron ADC-200BR or some other pc-based Blu-Ray jukebox, then you definitely rip 24/7. For $500, it's reasonable to consider getting a couple of them for a project of this scope.
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post #35 of 55 Old 10-01-2012, 11:41 AM
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To anyone interested, did a movie-only rip of a 3D BD with the latest DVDFab and it spits out an ISO (folder rip also possible) that works fine on my Mede8er 1000X3D.

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post #36 of 55 Old 10-01-2012, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by comicguy View Post

AHHHHHHHHHH, you guys that want to compress blurays down to 4GB KILL ME!!! Just go buy the damn dvd! Why oh WHY would you want to waste the time and energy to do THIS. Strip out the HD audio too while you are at it to save evn more space! AHHHHHHHHH

AHHHHHHHHH, you guys that refuse to compress blurays down to 4GB KILL ME!!! A 4GB 720p compression looks light years better than any DVD and only slightly worse than an uncompressed rip! Why oh WHY wouldn't you want to take the time to let an encode run in your computer's background to save 20GB of storage space so you don't have to dump $1000 to upgrade your NAS. Make sure to strip out the HD audio too while you are at it to save even more space, because Eddie Murphy is no more or less funny in DD5.1 than he is in TrueHD! AHHHHHHHHHH
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post #37 of 55 Old 10-01-2012, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

+1 That's the main reason why I use the format because you have options later.
I agree with this as well. I don't understand why people spend so much time to go from 1080p to 480p or lower when they can just buy the damn DVD, which is cheaper.

Can you really not see the difference between a 4GB 720p encode and a DVD rip? Cuz if you can't, then you're the fool that spent way too much money on his home theater and shoulda just stuck with a 26" Zenith and VHS tapes.
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post #38 of 55 Old 10-01-2012, 03:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by smitbret View Post

Can you really not see the difference between a 4GB 720p encode and a DVD rip? Cuz if you can't, then you're the fool that spent way too much money on his home theater and shoulda just stuck with a 26" Zenith and VHS tapes.
I had a reply and deleted it because I realize that nothing I can say will make a difference in your beliefs. So, if you are happy with your 4GB size movie, I am happy for you!
I do get a laugh out of you telling US to sick with our 26" Zenith when you are the one compressing every down to 4GB's though! So thanks for that!
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post #39 of 55 Old 10-01-2012, 04:00 PM
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I had a reply and deleted it because I realize that nothing I can say will make a difference in your beliefs. So, if you are happy with your 4GB size movie, I am happy for you!
I do get a laugh out of you telling US to sick with our 26" Zenith when you are the one compressing every down to 4GB's though! So thanks for that!

But that's exactly my point.

You were saying "Why don't you just by the DVD?" Well, because you and I both know that even a compressed BR looks far better than a DVD.

For me, and for all but the most hardcore movie watchers, that extra 10-15% quality at 5x the file size just isn't worth the extra storage space. Most of us don't have 1000s of BRs and DVDs to store on our 10TB NAS and our PCs are sitting idle. I don't even own a BR player. I purchase a BR every couple of weeks that I rip to my 3TB HDD and playback on my WD Live Hub or DirectTV box. Most of the time, I load the rip into Handbrake or Ripbot264 and let it run overnight while I sleep. If it's an Epic film like Troy or one of my personal faves then I don't, but only a small percentage of movies would ever be any better at 1080p instead of 720p. Dramas, comedies, TV series just don't really benefit very often from being BIG. They are definitely better at 720p than 480p...... everything is.

It just gets tiresome. I realize that the majority of people on this board are audio and videophiles, but occasionally an average Joe stumbles in here after a Google search and just wants some good advice on how to do the job well enough and a 4GB 720p rip is good enough for 90% of the people (Netflix anyone?). They should be able to at least be able to receive advice on how to do it without being subject to snobbery.
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post #40 of 55 Old 10-01-2012, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by smitbret View Post

But that's exactly my point.
You were saying "Why don't you just by the DVD?" Well, because you and I both know that even a compressed BR looks far better than a DVD.
For me, and for all but the most hardcore movie watchers, that extra 10-15% quality at 5x the file size just isn't worth the extra storage space. Most of us don't have 1000s of BRs and DVDs to store on our 10TB NAS and our PCs are sitting idle. I don't even own a BR player. I purchase a BR every couple of weeks that I rip to my 3TB HDD and playback on my WD Live Hub or DirectTV box. Most of the time, I load the rip into Handbrake or Ripbot264 and let it run overnight while I sleep. If it's an Epic film like Troy or one of my personal faves then I don't, but only a small percentage of movies would ever be any better at 1080p instead of 720p. Dramas, comedies, TV series just don't really benefit very often from being BIG. They are definitely better at 720p than 480p...... everything is.
It just gets tiresome. I realize that the majority of people on this board are audio and videophiles, but occasionally an average Joe stumbles in here after a Google search and just wants some good advice on how to do the job well enough and a 4GB 720p rip is good enough for 90% of the people (Netflix anyone?). They should be able to at least be able to receive advice on how to do it without being subject to snobbery.

I understand what you mean, and I've done several rips myself from. BD movie that was 32+ GB to less than 5 GB with handbrake before for someone on this forum. The quality was better than DVD, but it took over 3 hours to complete. In my opinion not worth doing unless you don't have storage space. That's why I buikt my 10TB unraid server. I started with 4 TB and keep adding as I need.

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post #41 of 55 Old 10-02-2012, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by smitbret View Post

But that's exactly my point.
You were saying "Why don't you just by the DVD?" Well, because you and I both know that even a compressed BR looks far better than a DVD.
For me, and for all but the most hardcore movie watchers, that extra 10-15% quality at 5x the file size just isn't worth the extra storage space. Most of us don't have 1000s of BRs and DVDs to store on our 10TB NAS and our PCs are sitting idle. I don't even own a BR player. I purchase a BR every couple of weeks that I rip to my 3TB HDD and playback on my WD Live Hub or DirectTV box. Most of the time, I load the rip into Handbrake or Ripbot264 and let it run overnight while I sleep. If it's an Epic film like Troy or one of my personal faves then I don't, but only a small percentage of movies would ever be any better at 1080p instead of 720p. Dramas, comedies, TV series just don't really benefit very often from being BIG. They are definitely better at 720p than 480p...... everything is.
It just gets tiresome. I realize that the majority of people on this board are audio and videophiles, but occasionally an average Joe stumbles in here after a Google search and just wants some good advice on how to do the job well enough and a 4GB 720p rip is good enough for 90% of the people (Netflix anyone?). They should be able to at least be able to receive advice on how to do it without being subject to snobbery.

To each his own, but I get a whiff of reverse snobbery there.
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post #42 of 55 Old 10-02-2012, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

I understand what you mean, and I've done several rips myself from. BD movie that was 32+ GB to less than 5 GB with handbrake before for someone on this forum. The quality was better than DVD, but it took over 3 hours to complete. In my opinion not worth doing unless you don't have storage space.

I agree. First of all, I don't want to spend that much time during the ripping process. Second, if I'm not satisfied with the video quality of my rips, I want to be sure it's not because I made a mistake during the reencoding. I especially don't want to re-rip and re-encode my entire collection if I buy a bigger TV and all the artifacts I couldn't see on the small screen are suddenly impossible to ignore on the big one. Being able to stuff all the discs in a box and put them in storage, knowing that I'll never have to use them again, definately has a value to me, and if I'll have to spend some extra money on hard drives, so be it.
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That's why I buikt my 10TB unraid server. I started with 4 TB and keep adding as I need.

I'm at 57TB now, mirrored smile.gif (30 x 3TB + 12 x 2TB). Still 10TB free after I finished ripping my final disc.
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post #43 of 55 Old 10-02-2012, 08:03 AM
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I'm at 57TB now, mirrored smile.gif (30 x 3TB + 12 x 2TB). Still 10TB free after I finished ripping my final disc.

That is impressive smile.gif

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post #44 of 55 Old 10-02-2012, 08:30 AM
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That is impressive smile.gif
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I was thinking the same thing.
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post #45 of 55 Old 10-03-2012, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by comicguy View Post

Strip out the HD audio too while you are at it to save evn more space! AHHHHHHHHH

Why not? HD audio is the first thing I remove. I even compress core DTS tracks to 640kbps AC-3. The only exceptions are 6.1 or 7.1 tracks, and that's only because I haven't figured out how to compress them with ffmpeg. Does anyone have any suggestions?
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post #46 of 55 Old 10-03-2012, 01:39 PM
 
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Why not? HD audio is the first thing I remove. I even compress core DTS tracks to 640kbps AC-3. The only exceptions are 6.1 or 7.1 tracks, and that's only because I haven't figured out how to compress them with ffmpeg. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Ok, I HAVE to stay out of this thread forever. All of this talk of compressing blu rays down to 4gb and stripping out the hd audio go against everything I am striving for in my theater. I did not spend tens of thousands of dollars to watch compressed blu rays with lossy sound. Luckily I have my new oppo 103 and darbee darblet to keep me busy...biggrin.gif
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post #47 of 55 Old 10-03-2012, 07:34 PM
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Ok, I HAVE to stay out of this thread forever. All of this talk of compressing blu rays down to 4gb and stripping out the hd audio go against everything I am striving for in my theater. I did not spend tens of thousands of dollars to watch compressed blu rays with lossy sound. Luckily I have my new oppo 103 and darbee darblet to keep me busy...biggrin.gif

I also get a kick out of what people are willing to do in order to save some space....I would rather drop a few dollars on another hard drive than give up the quality especially watching on a 121" screen. I will however say that at any point someone can always put the original in their player and watch it too. wink.gif

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post #48 of 55 Old 10-03-2012, 09:34 PM
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yeah, after they compress it they might as well watch it on their iPad or Android tablet, it will be about the same quality ---- poor.
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post #49 of 55 Old 10-04-2012, 05:13 AM
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If you don't have the space to rip your full collection at full quality, it's better to be selective in what you rip than reducing the quality of everything.

Don't rip everything you've got. Start by only ripping new purchases. Then you can add old purchases you haven't viewed yet, and your favorite movies, that you're actually likely to watch again within the next six months. The rest of the collection can wait until you've got more space.
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post #50 of 55 Old 10-04-2012, 09:58 PM
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I have to agree, very simple and smart suggestion. just because you have 1000 movies do you really need all of them on the server? I've got a few dozen on my server and of those I might only watch 3 or 4 repeatedly over time.
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post #51 of 55 Old 10-05-2012, 07:55 AM
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Depends on your mind-set. Some people are really into the whole home theater jukebox thing with their total collection on-line and with the cover-art displays and meta-data etc. They really put a lot of time into all of it. For those people, whatever they own they want on the servers so they will always fight the battle between "do I buy more disks" or "do I compress some of the stuff I probably won't watch again".

I rip only the main movie title to a BD.m2ts file -- no compression and a single HD audio track. I have a 4TB NAS dedicated to BD.m2ts and it holds about 140 movie titles. That's my BluRay storage limit. Before anything new goes on, something old has to come off. It's not too hard a choice, everyone has lots of movies they've watched and said "I'll never watch that again". I have a special folder just for those.

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post #52 of 55 Old 10-29-2012, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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After everyone's advice, I've decided to rip the full, uncompressed file to the HDD. I'm playing around with Clown BD and was wondering if there was a recommendation between output formats. I think each format was mentioned equally in this thread, so I'm guessing there is either no difference between them, or they each have their pros and cons. Can someone provide some guidance there? Will they all be equally playable amongst devices and will each one provide chapter stops?

Also, I don't think the second part of my initial post got answered. What would be the better playback devices for the files? I'm mainly looking at ease of use, and a decent looking GUI that will allow me to easily look through a large number of files. I also don't care a bit for any of the add ons such as netflix, hulu, mlb.tv, etc.
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post #53 of 55 Old 10-29-2012, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by John_Galt View Post

After everyone's advice, I've decided to rip the full, uncompressed file to the HDD. I'm playing around with Clown BD and was wondering if there was a recommendation between output formats. I think each format was mentioned equally in this thread, so I'm guessing there is either no difference between them, or they each have their pros and cons. Can someone provide some guidance there? Will they all be equally playable amongst devices and will each one provide chapter stops?
Also, I don't think the second part of my initial post got answered. What would be the better playback devices for the files? I'm mainly looking at ease of use, and a decent looking GUI that will allow me to easily look through a large number of files. I also don't care a bit for any of the add ons such as netflix, hulu, mlb.tv, etc.

Get a Dune Smart player. They just work.
The best containers to use are either .iso files or .mkv files
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post #54 of 55 Old 10-30-2012, 06:45 AM
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I suggest ripping as many movies on your ripping machine (not the media server) that will fit first (leave 50GB open on your fastest drive). Then, use ClownBD to convert all of those movies to BD folder structure using the "batch" function (ISO is an unnecessary step that adds time). Include all of the subtitles of a single language of your choice (so, you won't have to waste time figuring out which movie has forced subs and which subs are the forced subs). If you use the "batch" function you will be able to set up the conversion of every movie that has been ripped first, then run it and forget it, You won't have to babysit each movie.

With so many movies, if money and space is not a problem, just rip directly to your media server--forget about conversion.
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post #55 of 55 Old 10-30-2012, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by joikd View Post

Include all of the subtitles of a single language of your choice (so, you won't have to waste time figuring out which movie has forced subs and which subs are the forced subs).

I don't understand this suggestion. If you don't figure out the forced subs while ripping, then you will have to figure them out every time you play back the movie -- and there's no good way to do that.
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