Dune Max HD 3D at CES - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 142 Old 01-08-2013, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Dune showed off the upcoming Max HD 3D at the CES show today. Some important facts:

1 Based upon an Intel Chip
2.Does Full Menus!
3. Does full frame packed 3d with full menus
4. USES XBMC AS IT'S FRONT END - ALL FEATURES IMPLEMENTED
5. Has HDMI Input and Output as well as 7.1 analog out
6. Full gigabit Ethernet support
7. NATIVE VIDEO OUTPUT!
8. Cinevia support for disc playing but not for file playing! Won't check files
9. Wireless built in that can also act as a wireless hotspot
10. Application plug-in capable with a Dune app portal (possible Netflix/hulu support)

This is a very exciting product that will be out in the Summer time frame. Do not expect it to be very cheap but not crazy expensive like the pro was going to be.
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post #2 of 142 Old 01-08-2013, 07:09 PM
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So it says full menus, The says cinivia on disc playback So is that saying no full menus when going to ISO only from disc playback

This is all sounding like the HD pro all over again did they have a working model at CES or just another empty box?

Sounds more like an HTPC, As i dont think intel has brought out another media chip after the CE line. and we all saw how much HD audio worked on it.

If I had to guess its just like say the xtreamer ultra, Running Intel i3 or something, Using xbmc as the main player, Something like powerdvd as the secondary cinivia player which powerdvd does have for full disc playback. If it is like a pre made HTPC price would need to match and be under 400$ .

trying to put all posts in this thread now.

What did the remote look like if it was out for viewing? Did the unit act like an HTPC running xbmc if a working unit was on display. also if it was on display was it just running a demo mode or could you confirm that was you saw was actually coming from the unit.
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post #3 of 142 Old 01-08-2013, 07:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Full menus from iso files, only does cinivia check on disc playback.
Full working box, pre production of course
xbmc is NOT the player, only the front end. It uses it's own player for video and Linux mplayer for audio
Remote is like normal dune remote
Form factor looks just like dune max
will probably be around $600
was directly hooked up to display
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post #4 of 142 Old 01-08-2013, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

Full menus from iso files, only does cinivia check on disc playback.
Full working box, pre production of course
xbmc is NOT the player, only the front end. It uses it's own player for video and Linux mplayer for audio
Remote is like normal dune remote
Form factor looks just like dune max
will probably be around $600
was directly hooked up to display

So more HTPC then standalone type player? Did they give CPU specs or just intel? 600$ aint bad guess would depend how everything functions and flows together, You could build in htpc for under 400$ with with xbmc as front end you still then need to use powerdvd for disc playback iso playback and it gets messy. if they have a way to seamlessly tie everything in it could be a nice thing, Hopefully its not under spec like the xtreamer was only using an intel atom.

Also is it confirmed xbmc front end or something like ubuntu tv running since you mention mplayer
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post #5 of 142 Old 01-08-2013, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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xbmc Frodo build rc3. compiled Jan 5th. I will go back tomorrow and get the exact intel proc, but they may not tell me.
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post #6 of 142 Old 01-08-2013, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

xbmc Frodo build rc3. compiled Jan 5th. I will go back tomorrow and get the exact intel proc, but they may not tell me.

Ask for as much information as possible, cpu specs, ram specs, how are they going to do disc playback or maybe watch more if you can, would be nice information to know. to date none of the pre built htpc options have turned out to be worth a damn,
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post #7 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 12:57 AM
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Source Direct would make it a killer product for a lot of people!
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post #8 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 02:26 AM
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how can they do full BR menus with ISO with a linux OS ???? eek.gif



http://tweakers.net/nieuws/86542/dune-hd-werkt-aan-intel-mediaspeler-met-xbmc-en-blu-ray.html (in Deutsch, so use google translate)
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post #9 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 05:19 AM
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Very cool stuff, genuinely surprised didn't think Dune had it in them.

Mr Eric all BD players are linux based. XBMC is very modular and the core media player can be removed & replaced by another, this is how they are getting BD menus.
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post #10 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 05:51 AM
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Very interesting!!! I can't wait to hear more info.
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post #11 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 06:55 AM
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if this is true, it will kill PCH since they no longer offer full menus. Who would even want to buy a PCH anymore. I have been playing with XBMC and would love to see it as the front end of a player.
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post #12 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 06:56 AM
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Wow. At $600 I'd rather just build a PC,use XMB w/a BD drive built in and an HDMI out and be done with it. I'm using the PCH A400 right now and not having any success w/3D BD ISO's but @$250 I can use it for everything 'but' 3D and I'll be fine with it.

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post #13 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 07:04 AM
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i doubt AACS would allow ISO + phisical blu-rays to get full menus

short memory about the oppo firmware ?
one thing that start to me worry about is seeing cinavia in pc hardware.

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post #14 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canton160 View Post

i doubt AACS would allow ISO + phisical blu-rays to get full menus
short memory about the oppo firmware ?
one thing that start to me worry about is seeing cinavia in pc hardware.

If this really is more of a HTPC than a media player then I can see BD discs/ISO being handled via a commercial type player (such as TMT or the like) and then AACS/BDA would have no say so in the matter. MKV and any other files would be handled via another type player like MPC-HC.

What really has me intrigued is the possibility that several software apps can be licensed in such a machine. The licensing negotiations should/would be interesting.
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post #15 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 07:22 AM
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Any idea as to when we will be able to purchase one? I sure do hope full menu support, 3D and XBMC frontend hold true. I agree with the earlier post here in this thread; custom HTPC's can get very 'messy'. With the stability of the Dunes, I'd pick up one of these without hesitation.
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post #16 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

If this really is more of a HTPC than a media player than I can see BD discs/ISO being handled via a commercial type player (such as TMT or the like) and then AACS/BDA would have no say so in the matter. MKV and any other files would be handled via another type player like MPC-HC.
What really has me intrigued is the possibility that several software apps can be licensed in such a machine. The licensing negotiations should/would be interesting.

they say this is an in-house player. TMT and other are not able to run with linux OS.

The intriguing question is, assuming they did a full BR menu player under linux, would an in-house player be able to read menus without a proper BDA licence (so without cinavia inside) ? I thought that even xbmc isn't able to do so because of the possible copyright infringement it could have with AACS, that's why xbmc need a thrid party software to play BR with menus (at least in a legal way i think).

If I'm correct, if you want menus, you don't have any other choice than paying for a full BDA licence that will now include cinavia, whether your solution is hardware or software. So if you don't want cinavia (which of course none of the media player manufacturer wants), you don't want the full licence and won't have the full menu. So how can they play 3D from files with full menus without a proper licence including cinavia ? And more : how can they integrate a disc player, confirmed to have cinavia (like any normal BR player now), together with their non-cinavia file player ????

Technicaly it seems impossible unless...they broke the AACS content, with some kind of on board anydvd, which gives them the possibility to use an illegal (but working) software solution that plays the full menus without needing the licence.

Am i wrong ?

PS : or the solution relies in a different way of handling sound through some kind of "software splitter", hence the fact that the audio part is handled by another software...would be a very clever solution, even if I don't know how they could do this technically speaking.
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post #17 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 07:49 AM
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If they claim that they have Cinavia enabled for full discs then they have a BDA license somewhere in the chain. I am sure that there are TMT-like players that are designed for Linux but not yet made for public sale that are just for these types of machines....but Cinavia enabled means BDA license. I find it interesting that they can have a dual mode for their file playback that it does not have Cinavia implemented. That either means two different players or they found a way to get a license that allows for file playback without implementing Cinavia...which I doubt very much.
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post #18 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 08:09 AM
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What would happen if a legit bda licensed software would receive only a video stream without audio ? And what if the audio stream was decoded through a dedicated sound card not linked to the bd player ?

Is that something possible ?
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post #19 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 10:51 AM
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BluRay Iso + XBMC = Can't wait for it!
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post #20 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

Dune showed off the upcoming Max HD 3D at the CES show today. Some important facts:
1 Based upon an Intel Chip
2.Does Full Menus!
3. Does full frame packed 3d with full menus
4. USES XBMC AS IT'S FRONT END - ALL FEATURES IMPLEMENTED
5. Has HDMI Input and Output as well as 7.1 analog out
6. Full gigabit Ethernet support
7. NATIVE VIDEO OUTPUT!
8. Cinevia support for disc playing but not for file playing! Won't check files
9. Wireless built in that can also act as a wireless hotspot
10. Application plug-in capable with a Dune app portal (possible Netflix/hulu support)
This is a very exciting product that will be out in the Summer time frame. Do not expect it to be very cheap but not crazy expensive like the pro was going to be.

7- Native Video ouput in this context has same meaning as source direct? Frame packed 3D, I have already put in my order with my dealer
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post #21 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 02:29 PM
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Anyone have pictures of the Dune CES 2013 booth?
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post #22 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 03:46 PM
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5. Has HDMI Input and Output as well as 7.1 analog out

I'm seeing conflicting information on both these items.
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post #23 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I just left the ces show floor for the day. The processor is an unannounced Intel media processor not a CE proc.
Native is source direct
Looks like summertime availability.

The folks in the Dune booth know about this thread and are watching it.

This is not an HTPC. What do you want a picture of?
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post #24 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm seeing conflicting information on both these items.

What is the conflict?
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post #25 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 04:08 PM
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If this delivers, I would buy it to quickly replace my new a400. BD ISO with menus and without cinavia would be fantastic with XBMC on top. As long as it can play discs too, that's perfect. Even at $600. It would replace the a400 and an Oppo in one box if all the 3d works.
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post #26 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

What is the conflict?

from fev 2012 all analog out from blu-ray players was removed, due licensing agreements.

http://www.engadget.com/topics/hd/2009/06/08/aacs-finalize-death-to-analog-in-2013/

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post #27 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 04:31 PM
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No word of any sort of hqv processing on any of dunes new players?
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post #28 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canton160 View Post

from fev 2012 all analog out from blu-ray players was removed, due licensing agreements.

http://www.engadget.com/topics/hd/2009/06/08/aacs-finalize-death-to-analog-in-2013/

The death of analogue outputs was limited to the VIDEO outputs, not the audio ones, if memory serves me right.
Otherwise every decoder/amplifier/receiver would be illegal... ;-) one would have to buy active speakers with an HDMI in and HDCP...

Cheers!

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post #29 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 04:54 PM
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sorry but dune proofed already in the past how they work on shows, showing empty cases, hiding chip information because they didn't even know what chip they will use, announcing devices "HD pro" with 8910 which you can buy since 1 1/2 year if you followed there announcements, which they repeated two times with different dates.
So what are we seeing here a XBMC screen and?
Dual core with hyper treading or Quad core CPU?
Did they show Bd playback with full Menu?
Did they show anything at all or just XBMC which could be just running on a normal PC?

So better wait and if it comes out in Summer then we will have a proof but before that it is again to much secrets and then there are definitely conflicts, but maybe they don't care about licensing.
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post #30 of 142 Old 01-09-2013, 05:37 PM
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Nothing else HTPC and Intel based can do correct frame rates, prevent RGB conversion, or leave colorspace alone. Why would this one? I'm pretty skeptical about all of it, too.
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