A Comparison of Skyfall on iTunes, Vudu, and Blu-ray - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 234 Old 03-05-2013, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Of courae growth is dropping. Growth of anything after a certain level will drop. Any economic student can tell you that. Growth of receiver is also dropping, does it mean receivers are dead? Sales growth of iphone 5 have also dropped, does it mean iphone is dead? Growth of car sales is dropping, does it mean cars are dead?

No one can expect for growth of anything to always increasing ad infinitum.

I doesn't change a thing, so what if commodities plateau and new sales are driven my replacement cycles and population growth, perhaps with a boost from an emerging market or two. All that is meaningless, old technologies go out to pasture when new tech obsoletes them; the trend toward EST formats for movies is undeniable, the momentum is unstoppable. Also, yes receivers are toast. What do you think will happen when speakers are all self-powered and wireless? The device you use will not be a receiver as you know it. No amps. Discs and speaker cables will be anachronisms to future HiFi aficionados; the near future, not sci-fi.

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post #182 of 234 Old 03-05-2013, 07:19 PM
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So, there's no room for people who just need a modest home theater and a convenient way to watch a new release? Don't fool yourself, you are in a tiny minority as far as how picky you are. iTunes HD and Vudu HDX are certainly good enough to take advantage of sophisticated gear.

Exactly. 99% of people don't care about a quality increase that they need a 200" screen 5 feet in front of them to see...
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I'm curious to add to the pot the Kaleidescape Digital Download service, claiming to offer bit for bit BD quality in both audio and video tracks, plus all the extras present on the physical disk.

If it's an ISO of the BD, then it's the same quality, so it would be like ripping BD's to a server in ISO format and streaming them back... I read Kaleidescape's website, what a ridiculous product, and some of the stuff they say about streaming, the industry, and their system is downright hilariously stupid.
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post #183 of 234 Old 03-05-2013, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm curious to add to the pot the Kaleidescape Digital Download service, claiming to offer bit for bit BD quality in both audio and video tracks, plus all the extras present on the physical disk.

If it's "bit for bit" the same as Blu-ray, there's no point in a separate comparison. Blu-ray is already accounted for.

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post #184 of 234 Old 03-05-2013, 08:26 PM
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Exactly. 99% of people don't care about a quality increase that they need a 200" screen 5 feet in front of them to see...d.

Seriously, BiggAW, are you trying to be a jerk or are you just that thick? I've been telling you that as ling as you view the screen from THX recommended distance, you WILL see the difference, IE 100" from 9' away. rolleyes.gif

Thank God for ignore button! Too bad I forgot about it until just now.
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Exactly. 99% of people don't care about a quality increase that they need a 200" screen 5 feet in front of them to see...d.

Seriously, BiggAW, are you trying to be a jerk or are you just that thick? I've been telling you that as ling as you view the screen from THX recommended distance, you WILL see the difference, IE 100" from 9' away. rolleyes.gif

Thank God for ignore button! Too bad I forgot about it until just now.
They are just that thick. Go look at some of the other threads that they bash stuff on.
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post #186 of 234 Old 03-06-2013, 03:02 AM
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I read Kaleidescape's website, what a ridiculous product, and some of the stuff they say about streaming, the industry, and their system is downright hilariously stupid.
Care to elaborate on that?

I value their offer if only for this one thing: "Movie purchases made in the Kaleidescape Store are noted in your account, allowing for replacement downloads in the case of system loss or damage." Do that with a physical collection (moreover without breaking the law).
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post #187 of 234 Old 03-06-2013, 03:04 AM
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If it's "bit for bit" the same as Blu-ray, there's no point in a separate comparison. Blu-ray is already accounted for.

My point is that EST MIGHT FINALLY not fall behind on quality with respect to physical media IF AND WHEN that store goes on-line
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post #188 of 234 Old 03-06-2013, 05:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Care to elaborate on that?

I value their offer if only for this one thing: "Movie purchases made in the Kaleidescape Store are noted in your account, allowing for replacement downloads in the case of system loss or damage." Do that with a physical collection (moreover without breaking the law).

$15,000 to do the same thing as a HTPC? No thanks. Also, iTunes allows you to re-download purchases all you want, or to only stream them if you prefer. Finally, the PS4 ought to obsolete that system before it ever has a chance to empty people's wallets.

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post #189 of 234 Old 03-06-2013, 07:54 AM
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I personally have not yet seen an HTPC doing the same things that a Kaleidescape system does. If you have pointers or references I'd love them.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news/article/what-makes-kaleidescape%27s-movie-guide-tick/14698
http://theosroundtable.com/john-sciacca/john-sciacca-kaleidescape-inventing-refining-perfecting-the-wheel/
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post #190 of 234 Old 03-06-2013, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I personally have not yet seen an HTPC doing the same things that a Kaleidescape system does. If you have pointers or references I'd love them.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news/article/what-makes-kaleidescape%27s-movie-guide-tick/14698
http://theosroundtable.com/john-sciacca/john-sciacca-kaleidescape-inventing-refining-perfecting-the-wheel/

Ah, you mean the metadata, scene index and the pithy reviews that come with the service. I agree it does some nifty rich-person things, like sync with home automation to dim lights on cue. Those frills have nothing to do with picture or sound quality, which is what I am comparing. If Kaleidescape offered files that exceeded Blu-ray quality, I'd be curious. Frankly, the marketing language used on the Kaleidescape website reminds me of Bose speak, it's simplistic and self-congratulatory.

"'Finally, we flex our movie muscle minds to call out the most memorable moments in your favourite films. You can scene surf from Casablanca’s “Here’s Looking at You Kid” straight to “An Introduction in Shared Dreaming” from Inception.'
Easy access to favourite scenes actually gets a lot of use from Kaleidescape owners, we're told. Perhaps eager to demo their systems to friends and families."

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post #191 of 234 Old 03-06-2013, 06:55 PM
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Seriously, BiggAW, are you trying to be a jerk or are you just that thick? I've been telling you that as ling as you view the screen from THX recommended distance, you WILL see the difference, IE 100" from 9' away. rolleyes.gif

Thank God for ignore button! Too bad I forgot about it until just now.

Neither. I'm just not one of the few who has a 200" screen to stand in front of to see the difference.
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Care to elaborate on that?

I value their offer if only for this one thing: "Movie purchases made in the Kaleidescape Store are noted in your account, allowing for replacement downloads in the case of system loss or damage." Do that with a physical collection (moreover without breaking the law).

First of all, you'd have to re-buy significant parts of a collection multiple times to ever make up for the cost of one of those things, and the whole system is pointless, you could just have a shelf, walk over to the shelf, pick the disc up, and walk it to the room you want to play it in. Their FAQ is pretty funny. They try to write off streaming as "just another delivery mechanism", well yeah, it's the standard now for movie watching, and then they go on to say something about a "magical experience". They are grasping at straws to find something to say about a product that is pointless in so many ways. The A/V nuts who claim they can see the difference in blu-ray discs are using Oppo players, and everyone else is streaming. Lastly, even if you somehow justify a Blu-ray server, you could bake your own with a NAS or media PC for a lot less money, and get a lot more flexibility out of it.
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$15,000 to do the same thing as a HTPC? No thanks. Also, iTunes allows you to re-download purchases all you want, or to only stream them if you prefer. Finally, the PS4 ought to obsolete that system before it ever has a chance to empty people's wallets.

Yup.
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Ah, you mean the metadata, scene index and the pithy reviews that come with the service. I agree it does some nifty rich-person things, like sync with home automation to dim lights on cue. Those frills have nothing to do with picture or sound quality, which is what I am comparing. If Kaleidescape offered files that exceeded Blu-ray quality, I'd be curious. Frankly, the marketing language used on the Kaleidescape website reminds me of Bose speak, it's simplistic and self-congratulatory.

"'Finally, we flex our movie muscle minds to call out the most memorable moments in your favourite films. You can scene surf from Casablanca’s “Here’s Looking at You Kid” straight to “An Introduction in Shared Dreaming” from Inception.'
Easy access to favourite scenes actually gets a lot of use from Kaleidescape owners, we're told. Perhaps eager to demo their systems to friends and families."

You can control an Oppo player with a Crestron or Control 4 system through IR, IP, or RS-232C as well, and have the system drive the same type of integration. Heck, you could IR blast any Wal-Mart POS Blu-Ray player. Yeah, except Bose has a semblance of a purpose, even if they are grossly overpriced and have messed up audio (those little cube speakers).
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post #192 of 234 Old 03-06-2013, 07:10 PM
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Yeah, except Bose has a semblance of a purpose, even if they are grossly overpriced and have messed up audio (those little cube speakers).

Seriously? i thought "good enough" is good enough for you rolleyes.gif afterall, just like your argument, the majority find Bose to be very good, just like you claim VuduHDX to be very good. eek.gif

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post #193 of 234 Old 03-06-2013, 07:44 PM
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Seriously? i thought "good enough" is good enough for you rolleyes.gif afterall, just like your argument, the majority find Bose to be very good, just like you claim VuduHDX to be very good. eek.gif

Two totally different cases. Bose sucks the midrange out of the speakers (since they are TINY) and into the sub, which ends up really sucking for audio quality, while Vudu HDX delivers an experience, which for all but the top 1% of home theater nuts with giant projection screens, is visually the same as Blu-Ray. And, Vudu HDX being very good was agreed upon in the beginning of the thread, what we're debating is whether a human can perceive the difference between Blu-Ray and HDX, i.e. whether it is excellent. And yes, Vudu HDX is excellent.
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post #194 of 234 Old 03-07-2013, 03:21 AM
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Lastly, even if you somehow justify a Blu-ray server, you could bake your own with a NAS or media PC for a lot less money, and get a lot more flexibility out of it.

This is exactly what I am doing since several months. I am transferring DVD and BD content in my NAS (10 TB RAID6) where my iTunes Library lives, so to be read from my Apple TV or loaded via iTunes into my iDevices when on the go.

The problem being the "...since several months". To transfer the content of an optical disk I have to rip the various tracks, the subtitiles, check when and which are the forced one, mux everything, add metadata with Subler, etc

I am devoting an aggregated substantial amount of my private time to achieve the result which I could obtain with an almost zero effort from a Kaleidescape system. I would just have to pop a disc in the vault, and the system would take care of everything for me.

If I were to be paid for the time I'm investing at the rate of my current job... a Kaleidescape would be a way cheaper alternative!!!! The sad reality is that I am not paid for my private time, therefore I either drop 20k€ on the Kaleidescape system or follow the alternative path which I am alredy on.

Having said all that... I believe that EST will be the future, and I'm glad for every step we made toward that direction, hence thumbs up for iTunes Movie Store, Netflix, Hulu and whatever other service is out there.
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post #195 of 234 Old 03-07-2013, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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My point is that EST MIGHT FINALLY not fall behind on quality with respect to physical media IF AND WHEN that store goes on-line

Absolutely a valid point!

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post #196 of 234 Old 03-07-2013, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Yup! Too bad blu-ray is "dead" just like CD is "dead" and excessively compressed video and lossy sound is good enough solution. wink.gif I guess AVS crowd have moved from striving for the best PQ AQ to merely good enough. Soon enough AVS forum will also be dead because if people no longer strive for the best, why bother with quality AV components? Let's all just use Seiki TV with soundbar... After all, it's good enough. rolleyes.gif
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Exactly. 99% of people don't care about a quality increase that they need a 200" screen 5 feet in front of them to see...


I've got a poll running: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1462120/is-online-delivery-acceptable-for-home-theater-use

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post #197 of 234 Old 03-07-2013, 02:33 PM
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This is exactly what I am doing since several months. I am transferring DVD and BD content in my NAS (10 TB RAID6) where my iTunes Library lives, so to be read from my Apple TV or loaded via iTunes into my iDevices when on the go.

The problem being the "...since several months". To transfer the content of an optical disk I have to rip the various tracks, the subtitiles, check when and which are the forced one, mux everything, add metadata with Subler, etc

I am devoting an aggregated substantial amount of my private time to achieve the result which I could obtain with an almost zero effort from a Kaleidescape system. I would just have to pop a disc in the vault, and the system would take care of everything for me.

If I were to be paid for the time I'm investing at the rate of my current job... a Kaleidescape would be a way cheaper alternative!!!! The sad reality is that I am not paid for my private time, therefore I either drop 20k€ on the Kaleidescape system or follow the alternative path which I am alredy on.

Having said all that... I believe that EST will be the future, and I'm glad for every step we made toward that direction, hence thumbs up for iTunes Movie Store, Netflix, Hulu and whatever other service is out there.

Why not just get a shelf, and put the disc in the blu-ray player? It ends up being a lot easier than Kaleidescape or any home-baked solution.
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post #198 of 234 Old 03-07-2013, 05:10 PM
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Because I have more than 600 items to put on shelves and a small son that would not be able to properly manage them. On the ATV, he knows how to press the button to select a title (Kaleidescape has a far superior parental control) and can change the title without problems wink.gif

His pattern is 5 minutes of Anastasia, then 5 minutes of 101 Dalmatians, then 15 minutes of Nemo, etc
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post #199 of 234 Old 03-07-2013, 05:34 PM
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Because I have more than 600 items to put on shelves and a small son that would not be able to properly manage them. On the ATV, he knows how to press the button to select a title (Kaleidescape has a far superior parental control) and can change the title without problems wink.gif

His pattern is 5 minutes of Anastasia, then 5 minutes of 101 Dalmatians, then 15 minutes of Nemo, etc

Sounds like an over-complicated solution to a non-existant problem.
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post #200 of 234 Old 03-07-2013, 05:38 PM
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On the contrary, it solves the problem of having instant access to my collection from any point locally or remotely
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On the contrary, it solves the problem of having instant access to my collection from any point locally or remotely

Are you so lazy that you can't walk across the room, pick up a disc and load it into the player?
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post #202 of 234 Old 03-07-2013, 11:20 PM
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Indeed...(doesn't my name give it away?!)

I don't want to have to search through 600 items for the one I need, nor do I want to risk that my son puts disks in random cases or scratches them, or breaks the bd player tray to put them in.

I want instant gratification... no trailers or unskippable videos before the content is on the screen.
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post #203 of 234 Old 03-09-2013, 08:33 AM
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then dont let your son touch your stuff :-)
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post #204 of 234 Old 03-10-2013, 05:11 AM
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Easier said than done!
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Do you have any hard evidence that EST(electronic sell through) is working? Sales numbers are closely guarded. Streaming is working in the NetFlix model and Amazon prime model, but I don't think EST for movies is anywhere close to over taking DVD and BD sales. Let's not forget that a vast majority of those iTunes sales you reference above are for low cost music downloads and while Apple has sold many CDs still continue to be made.

You started this thread with the presumption to readers that you like Blu-ray and you only took the opportunity because you wanted to see how it compared and now a week in you are declaring discs are dead... no agenda? I smell something fishy. You sure seem to be a cheerleader for Apple's ecosystem.

Also you want to think the disc buying public are an exception to the rule in your world, but you fully admit you are paying for a higher speed internet connection to get the best out of the download/streaming models. There are plenty of people that don't want to or can't afford the expense of higher tiered ISP services. You seem to think that you are in the majority of users opting for faster service when the reality is you are not.
I will settle this. The broadcasters in the country are pushing an agenda for STREAMING. FIOS AMAZON, NETFLIX, COMCAST, XFINITY DIRECT TV COX ALL ALL OFFERING up streaming movies music etc to the general public. All of these multimedia giants are looking to capture this market. Even YOUTUBE is offering 4k. Apple TV will soon capture the market with the NFL on Apple TV and then it is game over. Yes disks will have some uses such as Read only for authentication services and PS4 is setting itself up for the next decade, yes folks 4k streaming and distribution over tiered IP services. For 400 a month FIOS WILL BE OFFERING gig speeds to provide better than 1080P bluray.
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post #206 of 234 Old 05-21-2013, 06:31 PM
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Yup! Too bad blu-ray is "dead" just like CD is "dead" and excessively compressed video and lossy sound is good enough solution. wink.gif I guess AVS crowd have moved from striving for the best PQ AQ to merely good enough.

Soon enough AVS forum will also be dead because if people no longer strive for the best, why bother withquality AV components? Let's all just use Seiki TV with soundbar... After all, it's good enough. rolleyes.gif
Actually soundbar sales are outpacing all avr sales and gaining market share incrementally say good bye to avr's as well. Soon enough everyone will have my setup. A large screen TV mounted on the wall with a single IP interface for all media and social communications.
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M
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So, there's no room for people who just need a modest home theater and a convenient way to watch a new release? Don't fool yourself, you are in a tiny minority as far as how picky you are. iTunes HD and Vudu HDX are certainly good enough to take advantage of sophisticated gear.[/quoteMost of the general public is driving streaming as they cannot afford high end rigs like the prima Donna.
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post #208 of 234 Old 05-22-2013, 06:43 AM
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again the cloud based services are killing optical media.

case closed

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again the cloud based services are killing optical media.

case closed

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Xbox One is where games, live TV, movies, music and sports come together in one place.* Thanks to the power of the cloud, Xbox One will keep getting better, with more games, TV, movies, music, and apps launching all the time. Planned for a Holiday 2013 release date


taken from the NEW XBOX ONE adver:cool:tisment
Personal opinion much?
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post #210 of 234 Old 05-25-2013, 05:51 AM
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Until there is broadband access across most countries physical media will remain. 34% of US households have no broadband to their home. It's going to take awhile, cool your jets.

Now the case is closed.

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Reply Networking, Media Servers & Content Streaming

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