Sony 4K Media Streamer FMP-X1 $699 Coming Summer 2013- - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 415 Old 04-11-2013, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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And preloaded with 10 in *real* 4K movies. Not their 4K Mastered Blu-Rays their releasing wink.gif Of course you will need a 4K TV to take advantage of the added resolution-

http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/7/4194290/sony-fmp-x1-4k-media-player
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post #2 of 415 Old 04-11-2013, 03:38 PM
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Exampe of a real 4K DCP D-Cinema movie size: DJango 5.1 286GB.
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post #3 of 415 Old 06-29-2013, 05:03 PM
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I just ordered one. Delivery July 2. Anyone else already have one?
Curious if it will downscale to 1080P?
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post #4 of 415 Old 07-01-2013, 12:29 PM
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Hello gang. I already have the Sony 4K media player. And I have some really bad news. You are NOT gonna like this.

Short version: I hooked the media player up (correctly) and received the error that the TV could not connect to the media player, along with a variety of error codes. After several hours of this, I returned the first unit and got a fresh one. Same problem exactly.

Enter Sony support. I talked to various people 'up the chain' until I got to a person who actually understood what the issue was. I hope you're sitting down:

Evidently, at the 11th hour, Sony decided to change the HDCP employed in these players. This new version of HDCP is not - I repeat NOT - compatible with virtually *any* 4K television that Sony has sold to date. If you purchased a Sony 4K TV of any size at any time before, I don't know, the last 14 days or so, chances are you're affected.

The solution, per Sony: The entire HDMI board in the TV has to be changed before the media player will work. Of course, Sony will set this up for you. When the part is available. And when the technicians have time. Because, you know, they have to now change the HDMI boards on almost *every* 4K TV they've ever made.

Am I the only person who's more than a little irritated that I just spent close to $7K on a beautiful new TV that effectively now cannot play the *only* 4K content in existence? Truly, truly unbelievable.

Questions? Ask away. But my advice: don't order the media player yet. Get your set's board changed first. Then, you won't have to endure the frustration I've endured today. Grrr......
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post #5 of 415 Old 07-01-2013, 01:07 PM
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Wow, what a bite in the ass. I'm glad I'm not an early adopter to all this 4k stuff but, I like following and knowing whats coming down the pipe line. If I had just bought a 4k tv I would not only return the media player but, the tv as well until everything is sorted out. Cart before the horse!

Would this effect the Sony VPL-vw1000 4k front projector?
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post #6 of 415 Old 07-01-2013, 04:13 PM
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Yep. They decided to have it ONLY work with Sony 4k TV's.
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post #7 of 415 Old 07-01-2013, 05:18 PM
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Well, for now I'll continue to use the 4K Media Player (aka: Dell PC) that came with my 84. I was hoping to get that slightly unsightly Dell out of my media room. (Curious, does the new 4K Player have all the content that's on the Dell? (The eleven 4K movies, a dozen or so independent 4K video shorts and a dozen or so 4K photo slide shows.)




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post #8 of 415 Old 07-01-2013, 06:39 PM
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Yes. The media player does NOT work on anything released by Sony prior to, you know, right now.
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post #9 of 415 Old 07-01-2013, 07:36 PM
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Interesting, I just spoke with both Sony Support, and the Sony Store, and both are saying the FMP-X1 being sold through the store "now" will work on all of their 4K TV's.confused.gif The support guy said he guaranteed it would also work with any of the 84" 4K's because they were built with the Server interface in mind, and the basic internal connections used in the FMP-X1 is the essentially the same as the 4K media player (Dell) we 84 owner's already received. I will, of course, believe it when I see it for myself, but frankly not in any hurry, the Dell works fine (other than it's "clunky" size). We'll see.

Also, for the VW1000ES guys, the footnotes on the FMP-X1 product page at the Sony Store indicate it "works exclusively" with the 55" and 65" TV's. (But there may be hope, it does not mention the 84" either, but it's apparently supported (assuming they really work, or will be made to work.


(Just to be clear, not questioning the posts of those indicating a problem.)



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post #10 of 415 Old 07-03-2013, 08:56 AM
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Check out the manual, not good new for people who have early versions of the panels.

And it has been confirmed that the streamer does not now work with the 1000ES projector.

As with the panels a new hdmi board will need to be installed but there is no word so far on when that might be.

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/FMPX1.pdf

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post #11 of 415 Old 07-04-2013, 12:36 AM
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Sony might need to keep swapping HDMI input boards in the near future. During a Sony 4K press meeting in April, Sony hinted that they might offer a board swap in the near furture to offer HDMI 2.0 input capabilities in order to support higher frame rates. The woes of the early adopter smile.gif

http://us.hardware.info/news/34661/samsung-and-sony-to-offer-hdmi-20-upgrade-for-uhd-tvs
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post #12 of 415 Old 07-04-2013, 01:53 AM
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I am curious, at what distance do you guys sit from your TVs?

To see a noticeable benefit from 4k on a 55", you need to about 5' from it! On a 65" you need to be at about 6'.

I love new tech, but you really need to get closer to 95"-100" screen to get any noticeable benefit from the higher pixel count, at something like 9'-10'.

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html
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post #13 of 415 Old 07-04-2013, 09:01 AM
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Wow, I really have a feeling prices will fall on item that stream 4k. The TV's are selling well at Frys I noticed, and even on Amazon, Tiger Direct. This is a lot of money for this thing! That said... I want one! Need to replace my aging WDTV Gen1 running Showcase Mod.
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post #14 of 415 Old 07-04-2013, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mychaelp View Post

Wow, I really have a feeling prices will fall on item that stream 4k. The TV's are selling well at Frys I noticed, and even on Amazon, Tiger Direct. This is a lot of money for this thing! That said... I want one! Need to replace my aging WDTV Gen1 running Showcase Mod.

The prices will drop for the TVs as well, and much sooner than most anticipate.

This is an interesting piece on why 4k and why now: Why Ultra HD 4K TVs are still stupid
Quote:
"... 5. Why 4K?
Ah, now this is an interesting question. It's clear many seem to think TV manufacturers are some sort of altruistic entities that only do new things if there's a benefit to the consumer. How adorable, but no. Ultra HD isn't the "new technology" it appears. Modern TVs are made from huge sheets of "motherglass." From this big piece, companies slice up smaller pieces to make televisions. It's easier (read: cheaper) to make a big piece and cut it into smaller TVs.
Originally this was in case there was a problem with part of the glass, the rest could still be sold as TVs. When you read about "yields" as part of TV manufacturing, this is largely what they're talking about.
But manufacturing has gotten really good, so most of these pieces of motherglass are fully used. Instead of slicing up one piece of motherglass into four 42-inch 1080p LCDs, what if you just kept the whole thing as one piece? What would you have? You'd have an 84-inch TV. Use the exact same (or similar) drive elements/electronics and all the various bits, and you've got a 3,840x2,160-pixel, 84-inch UHD TV. Hey, wait.
You see, TV companies are pushing 4K because they can. It's easy, or at least easier than improving the more important aspects of picture quality (like contrast ratio, color accuracy, motion blur, compression artifacts, and so on).

6. 4K is easy to market
OK, so 4K is easier to manufacturer than an actual new technology (OLED), but there's more to it than that. Ultra HD is an easy sell. It's a number, greater than another number; therefore it's "better." In the confusing world of televisions, simplifying "superiority" down to a single number is marketing gold...."

Right now, the manufacturers get to upsell you to a much higher margin product, plus, they get to sell you an incompatible "streamer" with a dozen movies for $700. How can they lose?
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post #15 of 415 Old 07-07-2013, 07:03 AM
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Correct!! Iv'e seen 4K and it looks great,but Iv'e said from jump TO ME.completely unnnecessary.. Concentrate on many of the other aspects that were mentioned..Or even put out some quality 2.35:1 tv sets for us who consider ourselves at the front line to this hobby.

AM I THE ONLY OASIS IN THE DESERT OF STUPIDITY......" SIR BRICKENBOCKER"
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post #16 of 415 Old 07-08-2013, 04:40 AM
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I can never get my head around why people complain when manufacturer's make new products. Did you all expect to sit on 1080p for the next 10 years? "Complete unnecessary," heard that when 1080p was introduced over 720 as well. Yup, 1080p was completely unnecessary, hasn't really added any value to the images we see today.rolleyes.gif

BTW, Sony's 4K media player, is not generally incompatible with their 4K TV's, only the first couple of hundred (many of which landed in the hands of us early adopters at AVS), and although one person in a post attributed the problem solely to Sony, and still another brought up HDMI 2.0 (not even relevant to the problem), it was HDCP that had to be modified because of issues found after launch. This was partially Sony and partially an HDCP mod. More than 80% (as of last Friday) of Sony's 4K displays work just fine with the Player, and Sony is developing the fix for the early TV's.

If it weren't for early adopters, some of these techs would never even make it to the mass marketplace.

(Disclosure: Some bias in my comments, I own a Sony 84" 4K and an Exec at Sony Japan is a friend.)



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post #17 of 415 Old 07-08-2013, 09:19 AM
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HI,
i am new to this forum and hope to find an answer to my question,i just got my sony 4k 84” yesterday,as they mentioned i got the s790 blueray player with 4k upscale feature,but i did not see any difference in quality than my series 8 samsung while playing blueray movies on the set,so to get much of this tv i have to play 4k content on it cause i loved the look of it while it was in sony store,the bad thing sony kuwait does not provide any 4k content with the tv,my question is,will sony 4k media streamer work on the 84” or not?cause on the sheet you posted they are talking about how close the hdmi ports from each other!! on the 84” that i own hdmi ports 1,4 are near each other and 2,3 are also the same but on the side of the panel,you can check the link and let me know if you understand what they mean,thanks in advance and good luck to you all.

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/FMPX1.pdf
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post #18 of 415 Old 07-08-2013, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradise man View Post

HI,
i am new to this forum and hope to find an answer to my question,i just got my sony 4k 84” yesterday,as they mentioned i got the s790 blueray player with 4k upscale feature,but i did not see any difference in quality than my series 8 samsung while playing blueray movies on the set,so to get much of this tv i have to play 4k content on it cause i loved the look of it while it was in sony store,the bad thing sony kuwait does not provide any 4k content with the tv,my question is,will sony 4k media streamer work on the 84” or not?cause on the sheet you posted they are talking about how close the hdmi ports from each other!! on the 84” that i own hdmi ports 1,4 are near each other and 2,3 are also the same but on the side of the panel,you can check the link and let me know if you understand what they mean,thanks in advance and good luck to you all.

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/FMPX1.pdf


I'm an 84" 4K owner as well, and I know for certain that as of this writing the 84" you have will not work with the FMP-X1. In addition, although some 84" owner's were told that Sony would be swapping out the FMP-X1 in exchange for the Dell Server we U.S. folks received with the TV, this is not the case, at least not in the near term. Because we have a working 4K content Server, Sony is focusing on correcting an issue the early 4K TV owner's are experiencing with X1 compatibility. I'm told Sony will "revisit" swapping for the new X1 at some future point.


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post #19 of 415 Old 07-08-2013, 04:34 PM
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thanks for answering,is there any other way for me to watch 4k content?is there a way for me to get this dell?like buying it from else where?
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post #20 of 415 Old 07-08-2013, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradise man View Post

thanks for answering,is there any other way for me to watch 4k content?is there a way for me to get this dell?like buying it from else where?


Some 4K owner's are finding 4K content on UTube. I believe there are discussions regarding this in the Sony 4K owner's thread in the LCD Displays section, here is the link:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1473062/official-sony-x9-xbr-55x900a-xbr-65x900a-owners-thread

There is no way that I'm aware of that you can get the Dell (but I'd check with Sony directly to be sure), and as far as I know those of us that have them cannot share the Server with anyone else because the Server is actually identified with our particular display. There is an online identification and authorization that takes place when you attempt to use the Server. There is also a 4K Media Player software program that is downloaded to a Sony Experia tablet that came with the Server and this also plays a role in the process (although I suspect any device capable of downloading the media player would get the same result). Not sure why you 84 4K owner's were not part of the Dell deal, perhaps it has something to do with playback of the content????


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post #21 of 415 Old 07-08-2013, 06:51 PM
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thank you so much my dear friend you have been such a help,i will look into the link you posted,i don’t know why sony not providing dell media in our region,people are talking about hdmi ports upgrade from sony to fix their media player issue and this will take a long time to be available in my region,but i think the only way for me now is to order the hard drive on timescapes website it is the only true 4k content that i can get for now,i will post a link for you to look at.in my case i would go with the timescapes hard drive option (mov)prores.and hope it works cause it will be connected through usb!!!


http://www.timescapes.org/products/Specs.aspx
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post #22 of 415 Old 07-08-2013, 07:16 PM
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So if 286 GB is average for a new movie, a 2 TB system would not hold very many movies. I was unable to find out how much space was remaining on the unit after its preloaded movies were included from the Sony online tech support. Apparently you can add hard drives to the system but have no idea if these can be daisy chained or if the warning "May delete all content" when the hard drive is connected to the machine might prevent swapping hard drives. Maybe it is a system primarily designed for Sony's streaming service with movies to be rented short term and then deleted or they evaporate?
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post #23 of 415 Old 07-08-2013, 07:44 PM
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actually i am not worried about the size of file,i know it’s huge but i really need 4k content to use on this display,cause for now i am disappointed cause when i play bluray movie on this tv it does not look good as much it looked on my samsung series 8,the only way to be blown away on those 4k tv’s is to play 4k content and the only one i know is this media server which is not compatible!!!!
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post #24 of 415 Old 07-09-2013, 09:06 AM
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286gb is a typical size for a 4k D-Cinema DCP file. This is an uncompressed file used by public movie theaters. Even a 2k DCP file tends to be in the 80gb-100gb range (way more than a typical bluray). Consumer 4k files will be compressed, more so especially when H265 arrives.
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post #25 of 415 Old 07-19-2013, 04:40 PM
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The new HDMI(4) circuit was installed by Sony techs this past Monday, and it's been smooth sailing since.

The XBR65 and the X1 work perfectly together, even got a software update this morning.

pics here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1473062/official-sony-x9-xbr-55x900a-xbr-65x900a-owners-thread/690#post_23530262
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post #26 of 415 Old 07-20-2013, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JlgLaw View Post

I can never get my head around why people complain when manufacturer's make new products. Did you all expect to sit on 1080p for the next 10 years? "Complete unnecessary," heard that when 1080p was introduced over 720 as well. Yup, 1080p was completely unnecessary, hasn't really added any value to the images we see today.rolleyes.gif
...

Not complaining about "new technology" (even though 4k is hardly new).

Simply pointing out the fact that until 100"+ screens come to market, most people will not really get any benefit from 4k over 1080p, based on their viewing distance.

But as the CNET article noted, it's an "easy sell," so yes, I do expect that we'll soon be awash in 42"4k LCDs.

No need to roll eyes. rolleyes.gif
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post #27 of 415 Old 07-21-2013, 02:50 AM
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ARTICLE

Sony: New Video Players Should Be Internet Connected to Beat Pirates

Andy
July 3, 2013

The Anti-Piracy and Content Protection Summit in Los Angeles last week had a number of interesting speakers, not least Sony Pictures CTO Spencer Stephens. With Sony just confirming that its new 4K player will debut in weeks, Stephens has revealed his wish-list for future 4K content protection. In addition to watermarking files with the identity of the user, the Sony CTO says that 4K players should have an Internet connection in order authenticate each video playback.

sony4KEarlier this year, Sony announced its new FMP-X1 4K Ultra HD Media Player in preparation for bringing the highest quality video available into homes around the world. 4K video will bring a resolution of 3840 × 2160 to the market, with the 4K referencing the almost-4000 pixel horizontal resolution.

Just this week Sony confirmed that its new device, which is only compatible with Sony’s own 4K TVs, will be arriving in homes from July 15th . Priced at $699, the player will require activation via the 4KActivation.com website.

Sony also named its new online 4K content distribution service which is due to launch later in the year. Video Unlimited 4K will offer movies and TV shows for direct download to its 4K player.

How the studios intend to protect their 4K content from piracy going forward has not been publicly outlined. However, during last week’s Anti-Piracy and Content Protection Summit in Los Angeles, Sony Pictures CTO Spencer Stephens gave a presentation which included his company’s wish-list for 4K DRM.

Bill Rosenblatt, who spoke at the summit for his company GiantSteps Media, notes that Stephens described the introduction of 4K as an opportunity to start with a fresh anti-piracy design. This, along with Sony’s “wish-list”, suggests that the final approach is yet to be agreed.

Nevertheless, at this stage Sony appears to be clear on its DRM requirements. Although fairly predictable, they aren’t going to win them many fans.

After the infamous cracking of HDCP, Sony is backing HDCP 2.2 (spec here, pdf) to protect the digital outputs of its devices from unauthorized video capture. HDCP 2.2 also has a ‘localization‘ feature, which limits the distance over which an HDCP player will feed content to a receiver such as a TV. This should stop people playing HDCP-protected content over the Internet.

Next, Sony wants each video title to be unique, meaning that the cracking of one piece of content doesn’t open up the floodgates to everything else. The company also wants video playback to take place in a Trusted Execution Environment (TEE), ensuring that sensitive data is processed and protected in a secure manner while allowing software upgrades.

And now the intrusive stuff.

Sony says it wants 4K content to be watermarked with the identity of the device or user who downloaded it, meaning that should the above countermeasures become cracked at some point, it will be possible to trace content back to its original owner. It won’t necessarily follow that those individuals are responsible for any ‘leak’ but they could forever associated with that content if it should.

Of particular interest given all the fuss over Xbox One’s former requirement to be connected to the Internet on a daily basis (and Sony’s response of needing no such thing for PS4), is Sony’s final wish-list item for 4K.

If the company has its way, all 4K players will need to authenticate themselves online before each and every playback. This will enable content providers to identify both unauthorized content and hacked players. However, if you are a legitimate customer with no Internet connection – permanently or temporarily – content will not play on your 4K device.

It’s becoming increasingly clear that content providers are viewing the Internet as a means to remain in constant contact with ‘their’ hardware and content wherever it may be. Going forward that will provide an unprecedented level of control. At least, that’s the plan.

AV stuff here
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post #28 of 415 Old 07-21-2013, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverlight View Post

ARTICLE

Sony: New Video Players Should Be Internet Connected to Beat Pirates

....
It’s becoming increasingly clear that content providers are viewing the Internet as a means to remain in constant contact with ‘their’ hardware and content wherever it may be. Going forward that will provide an unprecedented level of control. At least, that’s the plan.


Sure, make it so difficult for us to play anything legitimately obtained, so we end up going to the dark side based on usability....


But thanks for posting this, it's good to know, the next time I have a choice between Sony and another brand.
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post #29 of 415 Old 07-22-2013, 06:39 AM
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Sure, make it so difficult for us to play anything legitimately obtained, so we end up going to the dark side based on usability....


But thanks for posting this, it's good to know, the next time I have a choice between Sony and another brand.



Do you think the other brands are not looking to do the same thing? It's unfortunate that steps like this need to be taken, but you can thank all those folks that have no respect for IP.
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post #30 of 415 Old 07-22-2013, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JlgLaw View Post

Do you think the other brands are not looking to do the same thing? It's unfortunate that steps like this need to be taken, but you can thank all those folks that have no respect for IP.

Steps like these do NOT need to be taken. Software producers, as well as music producers learned this ages ago: make the content easily available, for a reasonable price, and piracy stops being a major issue.

Unfortunately, the movie/TV industry is still populated by people (particularly in the legal departments and the boardrooms) who barely understand the technology and think that they can squeeze the consumer without consequences.

I believe that this rather pointless push to 4k (pointless at this time, because of the currently available screen sizes) is in large part up-sell marketing, but it is also in part driven by the content industry, which sees it as a fresh start to further tighten the screws on content restrictions. If they have their way, they'll take everything off Netflix and will go to fully locked pay-per view environment, first with physical media and as the technology develops, streaming only.

I sincerely hope they fail, and yes, I do consider Sony and their chief "I need to justify my existence" officer Spencer Stephens as the leaders of this movement, so I personally do plan to avoid buying anything Sony if I can. Sony is already in trouble, so hopefully they will rethink their "dream" strategy soon.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack the thread, so I'll shut up now.
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