Starting to Rip/Stream: seeking suggestions for an iOS/DLNA Hybrid System... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 04-18-2013, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for the title, that's the best way I can describe what I'm trying to do...

In a nutshell: I'm looking a ripping methodology that will allow me to rip BD's with lossless surround sound into files that will both playback through my WDTV Live (which doesn't seem to be an issue at all) AND my ios devices, including appletv, iphones, and ipads.

What I have:

WDTV
4 TB Seagate Central (which allows compatible files to be used by ios devices on my network through an app).

I have been told that mp4 container will allow me to grab the multi channel lossless AND remain able to playback on ios devices (it will simply playback in stereo), but nothing I have read leads me to believe that's so...I don't see anything about the mp4 container that allows TrueHD DTS multic channel audio).

It seems to me that I will have to rip files into isos, mkvs, etc and convert the file into something that can be used by ios. True? I hope not, but that's what I'm expecting.

Then I'm carrying around double files of everything? Seems inescapable to a newb like me.

Sorry, brand new to this and I just don't want to have to back track...and clogging up the other threads isn't really proper or polite. I make enough problems for you fine folks as it is.

thanks for any advice and assistance.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #2 of 14 Old 04-18-2013, 08:52 AM
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A few problems

1) The WDTV Live does not support DTS-MA pass-through only TrueHD so your down to only one HD audio system.
2) iOS only supports one lossless audio format if using native playback and that is Apple lossless (ALAC).
3) Support for ALAC is extremely rare in video encoders and would likely need a lot of work to make it happen, converting video then audio and combining them into m4v container.
4) So even if you were able to cook up H.264/m4v video files with multi-channel ALAC they might not work on the WDTV Live.

The WDTV Live supports lossless Flac, that might be an option for H.264 in MKV videos with the HD audio processed into Flac, it will pass that to your sound system as LPCM so no quality loss. There are third party media players on the iTunes app store like Airplayer for instance which connects to DLNA servers and will play all the media formats Apple does not support but it comes at a price of no hardware decoding, which means it goes to the CPU and will drain the battery much faster.
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post #3 of 14 Old 04-18-2013, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alx330 View Post

A few problems

1) The WDTV Live does not support DTS-MA pass-through only TrueHD so your down to only one HD audio system.

Also to be noted is that if a WDTV is being hooked to something that CANT decode TrueHD (like directly to a TV), since the WDTV is just passing audio along, then you will need to convert and then mux in a DD audio stream separate from the TrueHD/DD track that already exists in order to have sound. I recently had to do this with almost every single Dreamworks Animation movies I have.

MM, are kids the reasoning for wanting the iOS support?

Bill
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post #4 of 14 Old 04-18-2013, 09:07 AM
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What you can do for m4v with the WDTV Live and AppleTV is make H.264/m4v with Dolby 5.1 audio that should get you surround sound on both of those, however the iPad/iPhone will not play m4v with Dolby 5.1 in it's native media player you would have to use a third party one.

That probably the easiest way to go I think, certainty for keeping the AppleTV in the loop with 5.1 audio. Handbrake video encoder will generate the necessary m4v videos, just select AC3 as the audio codec which is Dolby and set mixdown to 5.1.
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post #5 of 14 Old 04-18-2013, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok thanks guys, so let's cut right to the chase...

As I suspected, if I want the "real deal" BD audio and video for my HT I can count on making another "ios friendly" copy for apple-world.

The upside I suppose is that handbrake (which I cannot get running on my vaio for love or money right now) can make MUCH smaller files for those devices.

It's not the end of the world, I just wanted to make sure I was screwed, lol.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #6 of 14 Old 04-18-2013, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post

Also to be noted is that if a WDTV is being hooked to something that CANT decode TrueHD (like directly to a TV), since the WDTV is just passing audio along, then you will need to convert and then mux in a DD audio stream separate from the TrueHD/DD track that already exists in order to have sound. I recently had to do this with almost every single Dreamworks Animation movies I have.

MM, are kids the reasoning for wanting the iOS support?

Bill

Thanks Bill. Yep primarily for the ipad for the lil lass.


James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #7 of 14 Old 04-18-2013, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alx330 View Post

A few problems

1) The WDTV Live does not support DTS-MA pass-through only TrueHD so your down to only one HD audio system.
2) iOS only supports one lossless audio format if using native playback and that is Apple lossless (ALAC).
3) Support for ALAC is extremely rare in video encoders and would likely need a lot of work to make it happen, converting video then audio and combining them into m4v container.
4) So even if you were able to cook up H.264/m4v video files with multi-channel ALAC they might not work on the WDTV Live.

The WDTV Live supports lossless Flac, that might be an option for H.264 in MKV videos with the HD audio processed into Flac, it will pass that to your sound system as LPCM so no quality loss. There are third party media players on the iTunes app store like Airplayer for instance which connects to DLNA servers and will play all the media formats Apple does not support but it comes at a price of no hardware decoding, which means it goes to the CPU and will drain the battery much faster.


This DTS thing could be a big kink, I suppose. It will neither decode or pass DTS? I knew it wouldn't bit stream it, but it doesn't decode and send PCM either? Lmao, wow. Nice job, me.


James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #8 of 14 Old 04-18-2013, 11:24 AM
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If you are hooking it to a HT then the WDTV will be fine. I would suggest just running the most watched kids movies through Handbrake and being done with it. Load an iOS profile and batch encode them for future use.

Bill
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post #9 of 14 Old 04-18-2013, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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^ thanks again, Bill. "Fine" in the respect that core DTS (and the omission of 7.1) is adequate? Not trying to be flip, I just want to ensure I understand as my current thinking is that- through the WDTV live and an HDMI connection- that you get lossy core DTS and only 5 channels, not 7 if so encoded.

End of the world? Of course not. But a less than ideal reality, to be sure.

I could be wrong here, but it seems NO player, currently available on US store shelves passes multi channel DTS and TRUE HD, correct? Nothing from Netgear, D Link, Apple, WD, Roku, or any other major player anyway that I can tell. Seems like a pretty clear message to me, lol.

It's looking more and more like a Dune or PCH to me...but I am more than anxious to be told that I'm completely wrong.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #10 of 14 Old 04-19-2013, 07:49 AM
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Correct on all fronts.

Bill
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post #11 of 14 Old 04-19-2013, 09:24 AM
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ok This is what I do if you want ios friendly. The only issue is you need a apple computer to do it.

I use makemkv for the movie with the audio track.

Then I use subler for making it a MP4

for ios you need the audio tracks in this order

track 1 = AAC
track 2 - 5.1
Track 3 = passthrough lossles.

Remember mp4 is just a container.

This does
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post #12 of 14 Old 04-19-2013, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

ok This is what I do if you want ios friendly. The only issue is you need a apple computer to do it.

I use makemkv for the movie with the audio track.

Then I use subler for making it a MP4

for ios you need the audio tracks in this order

track 1 = AAC
track 2 - 5.1
Track 3 = passthrough lossles.

Remember mp4 is just a container.

This does

Why do you need an Apple to do this? Or do you mean in order to use that particular program?

Bill
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post #13 of 14 Old 04-19-2013, 10:58 AM
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Sublr is only available on apple computers.
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post #14 of 14 Old 04-20-2013, 12:32 AM
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You can use Hndbrake to generate multiple audio tracks though is the WDTV Live smart enough to go with the 2nd or 3rd track instead of the first so you dont have to switch every time.
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