Django Unchained: Blu-ray vs. iTunes vs. Vudu HDX - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 128 Old 05-03-2013, 07:38 PM
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tiny A is trolling again I see..


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1468350/cnet-gives-strongest-tv-recommendation-ever-to-tc-pst60-plasma-hdtv-line/60#post_23276495
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Those are the same idiots who went with Blu-Ray when it was easily possible to do 1080p on dual-layer DVDs with DiVX, mostly because the movie industry wanted new DRM and they were so naive that they though no one would break it. HAHAHAHAHA.

That also has little to do with streaming. Sony can throw as much bitrate as they want at it, but when another competitor, like, say, Vudu comes along and is pumping out gorgeous 4k at 32mbps, which will work on internet connections accessible to more than half the US population, and Sony is pushing out files at 150mbps, Sony is going to fail because very, very, few people will actually be able to stream them.
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post #92 of 128 Old 05-04-2013, 07:36 AM
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Apparently you don't want to debate me on the merits of what I'm saying because you realize that I'm right.
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post #93 of 128 Old 05-04-2013, 07:59 AM
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Yeah ok buddy - go back to the other thread and see.. we're all discussing, and you're trolling.. all over AVS obviously, enough said.

Enjoy your LCD - I used like them too before I switched to plasma cool.gif

Bye bye tiny a, go somewhere else ok

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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Apparently you don't want to debate me on the merits of what I'm saying because you realize that I'm right.
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post #94 of 128 Old 05-04-2013, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by nrc2112 View Post

If you look at the show details in ITUNES it has the dd sign on content that has Dolby digital.

This is partially true. The TV show Vikings does not have the Dolby Digital sign in the iTunes Store, however I took a chance and bought it and sure enough Vikings is in Dolby Digital. I was wondering if there was any other way to tell since Apple apparently doesn't accurately reflect this.
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post #95 of 128 Old 05-04-2013, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Whoever encoded it sucks at encoding. VUDU may have some magic sauce, but even with regular x264 stuff, you should be able to get it to around 10GB with no perceptible loss in quality. VUDU HDX is 6-10GB.

Typical homeade x264 rips are not encoded with streaming in mind. There is no consideration for max bitrate or buffer size.

A video intended for streaming cannot do that. If you tell your customer he needs a 10Mbps connection to play your videos then you need to encode with specific settings to ensure a stable stream.

An unconstrained encode will always be better overall quality than a constrained encode of same bitrate (assuming a well-developed encoder with good distribution algorithm).

That's just the way it is. Try to stream your pirate 8Mbps rip over a 10Mbps connection and see what happens.
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post #96 of 128 Old 05-04-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by elario View Post

Typical homeade x264 rips are not encoded with streaming in mind. There is no consideration for max bitrate or buffer size.

A video intended for streaming cannot do that. If you tell your customer he needs a 10Mbps connection to play your videos then you need to encode with specific settings to ensure a stable stream.

An unconstrained encode will always be better overall quality than a constrained encode of same bitrate (assuming a well-developed encoder with good distribution algorithm).

That's just the way it is. Try to stream your pirate 8Mbps rip over a 10Mbps connection and see what happens.

As long as you're not live streaming, streaming basically is the same as a download. You're offline encoding before hand, and you can buffer way ahead during slower scenes, even if you're not using a connection that's way in excess of 10mbps like many VUDU customers are.
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post #97 of 128 Old 05-04-2013, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

As long as you're not live streaming, streaming basically is the same as a download. You're offline encoding before hand, and you can buffer way ahead during slower scenes, even if you're not using a connection that's way in excess of 10mbps like many VUDU customers are.
Nope.
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post #98 of 128 Old 05-04-2013, 06:18 PM
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Nope.

Yeah, actually it is.
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post #99 of 128 Old 05-04-2013, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Yeah, actually it is.
Not with Vudu, Any pause and the whole stream stops no extra buffer loading with HDX. Not able to watch on my connection.
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post #100 of 128 Old 05-04-2013, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by terminaldawn View Post

Hey, I just got Vikings season 1 on VUDU HDX it clearly states all video and audio stats. For Vikings on HDX it is 1080p and Dolby digital plus 5.1. Looked better than apple tv and sounds amazing. I will soon be a VUDU only customer. No guessing on the audio and support for 7.1

This is partially true. The TV show Vikings does not have the Dolby Digital sign in the iTunes Store, however I took a chance and bought it and sure enough Vikings is in Dolby Digital. I was wondering if there was any other way to tell since Apple apparently doesn't accurately reflect this.
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post #101 of 128 Old 05-04-2013, 08:14 PM
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Mark please do Jurassic park. I checked out HDX vs blu ray and they are identical. I bought Blu ray and use UV for VUDU HDX. look exactly the same.
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post #102 of 128 Old 05-05-2013, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Yeah, actually it is.

You are wrong, there is only so many ways of saying it. An unconstrained encode is completely unsuited for a pay streaming service.

You don't have to take my word for it, go find someone whose experience you value and ask them about encoding for streaming purposes. You mentiioned x264 so go ask one of the devs if you want...Jason posts on several forums and is always willing to answer questions.
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post #103 of 128 Old 05-05-2013, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by colohtpc View Post

Not with Vudu, Any pause and the whole stream stops no extra buffer loading with HDX. Not able to watch on my connection.

Well then that's the way VUDU implemented it. They do have some amount of buffer, even if it's short, as the devices that support it have flash memory for that. The point is, the offline encoding is very similar. You might have to constrain a little more than if you had a huge buffer to get you all the way through an action scene, but nonetheless, very similar.
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post #104 of 128 Old 05-06-2013, 11:58 AM
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Heck even Microsoft and Sony next gen systems will require an always on network connection and will not use optical disks for gaming.

Time to do some reading because this is just plain wrong. Seriously, google it or go to gamespot.com and have a read. PS4 clearly won't require a connection as Sony has officially announced that it won't and the next Xbox is now rumored not to as well due to all the backlash they received when initial rumors said MS was going to require always on internet.

All of you who think there will be no physical media for 4K obviously have not read up on internet up-time and connection quality in the US. Its not that good when compared to other countries. Internet connections in the US just aren't reliable enough yet for no physical media. I don't disagree that at some point in the future the internet will be the more popular delivery method for those that have the means (reliable IP uptime, capable streaming device and/or lots of storage, bandwidth), but that doesn't mean that there won't be a physical media as well to satisfy those consumers who need/want it.
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post #105 of 128 Old 05-06-2013, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by natedogg661 View Post

Time to do some reading because this is just plain wrong. Seriously, google it or go to gamespot.com and have a read. PS4 clearly won't require a connection as Sony has officially announced that it won't and the next Xbox is now rumored not to as well due to all the backlash they received when initial rumors said MS was going to require always on internet.

All of you who think there will be no physical media for 4K obviously have not read up on internet up-time and connection quality in the US. Its not that good when compared to other countries. Internet connections in the US just aren't reliable enough yet for no physical media. I don't disagree that at some point in the future the internet will be the more popular delivery method for those that have the means (reliable IP uptime, capable streaming device and/or lots of storage, bandwidth), but that doesn't mean that there won't be a physical media as well to satisfy those consumers who need/want it.

Hey man I wouldn't worry too too much about 'tiny aa'. He's a troller check his posts - always arguing with others on EVERYTHING.

K moving on gotta go cut that grass now.. frown.gif
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post #106 of 128 Old 05-07-2013, 11:53 AM
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All of you obviously do not know much about supply and demand and or business models.

People, Bluray sales are down year over year. 4k will not be on optical desk and will be distributed via the Internet.

Heck even you tube is now selling channels for A La Carte viewing to the consumer.

Btw I am not tiny aa or whomever you mentioned. I am a network engineer with over 40 years experience and have many accolades to my credit in industry.

I have forgotten more about network protocols and delivery systems than all of you know.

Please take my advise and stop being so hard headed. There is no reason for optical media to survive. As i type this i am on a 300 Meg network paid for by my work.

Yes I get this perk due to the work I do in Network engineering. And yes I stream everything and do NOT pay for cable.
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post #107 of 128 Old 05-07-2013, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nrc2112 View Post

All of you obviously do not know much about supply and demand and or business models.

People, Bluray sales are down year over year. 4k will not be on optical desk and will be distributed via the Internet.

Heck even you tube is now selling channels for A La Carte viewing to the consumer.

Btw I am not tiny aa or whomever you mentioned. I am a network engineer with over 40 years experience and have many accolades to my credit in industry.

I have forgotten more about network protocols and delivery systems than all of you know.

Please take my advise and stop being so hard headed. There is no reason for optical media to survive. As i type this i am on a 300 Meg network paid for by my work.

Yes I get this perk due to the work I do in Network engineering. And yes I stream everything and do NOT pay for cable.

No worries, I wouldn't confuse you for him..

Good point that's the future we just need ISPs to get their act together so we can get the required speed

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post #108 of 128 Old 05-07-2013, 03:33 PM
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Unfortunately in Canada, oligopoly by Bell and Rogers won't make that happen. I have to pay near $200 to get the speed and bandwidth for the amount of movie I watch (if I use Vudu HDX and Netflix SuperHD). It's cheaper for me to buy 12 used blurays a month AND pay basic internet with the speed and bandwidth enough to watch only 2 movies at 9Mbps and do my daily work.

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post #109 of 128 Old 05-07-2013, 05:44 PM
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Just saw Jack Reacher on VUDU HDX, good movie. Not the best video quality, however sounded great.
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post #110 of 128 Old 05-07-2013, 07:43 PM
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nrc2112, not surprising though. The more complex the scenes, the more bitrate is required and 9 Mbps is just not enough for movies with complex and fast moving scenes. (Regardless of one troll on this thread claiming 9 mbps max bitrate being transparant to bluray's 36 mbps max bitrate)

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post #111 of 128 Old 05-07-2013, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Unfortunately in Canada, oligopoly by Bell and Rogers won't make that happen. I have to pay near $200 to get the speed and bandwidth for the amount of movie I watch (if I use Vudu HDX and Netflix SuperHD). It's cheaper for me to buy 12 used blurays a month AND pay basic internet with the speed and bandwidth enough to watch only 2 movies at 9Mbps and do my daily work.

Exactly David.

Rogers and Bell.. makes me laugh every time I just see those names rolleyes.gif

I had to cancel my Netflix because the monthly Rogers bills were unreasonable the times I've tried it.

Now I did stream every single episodes, every season, of Breaking Bad (at the highest available quality of course), all within one Rogers billing cycle mad.gif

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post #112 of 128 Old 05-08-2013, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nrc2112 View Post

Just saw Jack Reacher on VUDU HDX, good movie. Not the best video quality, however sounded great.

That's exactly what I thought of Jack Reacher on HDX. The sound quality was so good, I got to wondering if thetyallocated extra bandwith to it. The bass was spot-on, catching nice subtleties like the rubble from a Mercedes exhaust, and the exactly proper thuds of car doors. Surround sound during the gun fight sequences was really impressive as well

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post #113 of 128 Old 05-08-2013, 03:08 PM
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Nrc2112, imagic; so in your opinion, VuduHDX is NOT visually transparant to blu-ray, right?

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post #114 of 128 Old 05-08-2013, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Nrc2112, imagic; so in your opinion, VuduHDX is NOT visually transparant to blu-ray, right?

 

David,
 
No Vudu HDX is not. It is usually about 90% a sharp as Blu-ray, it occasionally struggles with high action or low light scenes, very occasionally demonstrates banding artifacts and shadow macro-blocking, compared to what Blu-ray can (usually) achieve. There is no doubt that encoding quality varies, with some HDX movies coming quite close to Blu-ray.
 
Jack Reacher happened to be an oddball movie where the sound quality of the online distribution version happens to be extremely high. I bet the Blu-ray has even better sound, but for Vudu, this is really an impressive audio performance.
 
There are definitely artifacts that can be noticed at normal viewing distances. I still consider the overall experience to be very high quality, but it is not fully at the level of Blu-ray, and I've yet to see an example of a movie that managed to achieve that.
 
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post #115 of 128 Old 05-08-2013, 04:22 PM
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Thank you. I just want to make sure what I see is not in my imagination. The sound, however, this time it's very close to the blu-ray version. Less spacious, as usual, but not as distinguishable than usual streaming vs BD soundtrack.

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post #116 of 128 Old 05-09-2013, 01:45 PM
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, on my professionally calibrated panny VT50 65 inch plasma, VUDU HDX is very good.

I do not know what was done for the Audio on Reacher, but like magic says, WOW!!

The Mercedes scene was awsome. Maybe soon VUDU can catch Bluray under the right circumstances, with a fast Internet connection on a well calibrated display and with the corrrect audio signal.

Time wil:cool:l tell
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post #117 of 128 Old 05-09-2013, 04:33 PM
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How far are you from the screen? That may have something to do with it. I sit about 9ft away from my 96" 21:9 screen (equivalent to approx 103" 16:9 screen, IIRC)

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post #118 of 128 Old 05-09-2013, 05:17 PM
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I am seven feet away from my screen. I do see some challenges with darker scenes and clouds. The CTO for VUDU has commented on this site that the streamimg can go from 9 to 20 Mbps for HDX titles. This is dependant upon your agregate bandwidth capabilities.

I have gone to an all streaming setup and only rent or purchase VUDU HDX. I am seeing and hearing significant progress from the intial VUDU offerings. Like the audio quality in Jack Reacher and Video qualtiy on Wreck it Ralph and also Hotel Transylvania, I am sold.

I will begin to migrate my entire Bluray collection to the cloud and then donate the disks to our public library for those less fortunate to enjoy.

Now to watch, "Mama" by Guillermo Del Toro.
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post #119 of 128 Old 07-26-2013, 09:16 AM
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FYI. Some good info to know

With all the Sales Idiots telling customers that 4K is a whole "nother" level

last month in NYC


At Pepcom’s Digital Experience event, held last night (June 20, 2013) at the Metropolitan Pavilion in New York, Marseille Networks introduced the VTV-122X family of video processing chips, which up-converts SD and HD 2D video to 4K resolution, and up-converts 3D video from legacy HDMI sources to 1080p. Both Marseille and Technicolor, whose booth Marseille shared, were emphasizing that the VTV-122X chips are the first and, thus far, only 4K up-converting chips to pass the Technicolor 4K Image Certified test suite.

Technicolor 4K LogoA side-by-side test comparing native 4K source material with upconverted HD material on Sony XBR 4K TV sets was extremely impressive. The images were very difficult to tell apart.

This also matches the Home Theater review onthe Sony 4K TV where he had 2 TV's side by side and he put in 4K on 1 tv and then a 1080 of that same movie on the other TV and used the upscaling engine and it was hard to tell apart


This is good info for everyone to know and proves again, for the 500 millionth time that Sales guys are Absolute Idiots
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post #120 of 128 Old 07-26-2013, 09:23 AM
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This also matches the Home Theater review onthe Sony 4K TV where he had 2 TV's side by side and he put in 4K on 1 tv and then a 1080 of that same movie on the other TV and used the upscaling engine and it was hard to tell apart

How big was the TV used in the demo?
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