Digial Blu-ray (MKV) streaming issue over wired LAN using DLNA (Mezzmo) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 06-07-2013, 02:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello everyone,

I’ve been stalking the forums for a while now and decided to sign-up. So first, let me say thank you to the community at large as you’ve all helped me work through several set-up issues over the years. Secondly, I am actually running into a bit of maddening situation and am looking for a little advice.

I am in the process of building a digital media library from my BR collection using MakeMKV to produce 1:1 rips of the final movies. I am running into an issue when I begin streaming the files though. They will begin playing for 15s to a 5min before they begin stuttering and buffering or close out completely. Needless to say either way they are unwatchable. Additionally the file information (runtime and file size) that is normally available with my compressed files (I run a two tiers system, true 1:1 for ‘worthy’ movies and compressed for everything else) is either ‘unavailable’ or shows a runtime many times greater than what it should be.

My current set-up is a DLNA network across my LAN from my HTPC to a Samsung BD-C7900 BDP, via two lengths of Cat6 cabling joined by a Linksys E4200 router updated to the latest firmware. I am using the DLNA manager Mezzmo for media management and while I doubt anything beyond the BDP is at fault, it is out-putting via HDMI to a Yamaha RX-A3000 AVR which in turn is supporting an LG TV and Epson 8500UB projector in addition to a 7.2 speaker array. The files play flawlessly on the HTPC themselves and BDs run from the BDP through the rest of the devices work flawlessly as well.

Based on the nature of the issue I believe my problem is with the wiring but I’ve tested the connection network using LAN Speed Test and the write came out at ~25Mbps and the read at ~45Mbps (both still seemingly slow for a gigabit network traveling on Cat6 in my opinion, but capable of handling the bandwidth required from what I’ve read). At this point I am just a bit frustrated so I was hoping someone may have had a similar issue that they were able to resolve. I am also in an apartment at the moment so some whole-house solutions aren’t necessarily available to me, but I have no problem running cabling along the walls or looking at switches/routers that might remedy things.

Thank you in advance for any advice you might have and please let me know if you have any questions.

-FF

Epson 8500UB | LG 42LD520 | Samsung BD-C7900 | Oppo BDP-103 | Dune HD Base 3D | Linksys E4200 + Cat6

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post #2 of 27 Old 06-07-2013, 06:39 AM
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First off, BluRay players make for lousy content streamers. My first suggestion would be to contact Mezzmo support about the profile for your BD player. When I had problems getting a Panasonic BD player to work they were very helpful with modifying the profile and finally tracked the problem down to a hardware limitation of the BD player when streaming -- it would play the BD disk perfectly but would not stream a 1:1 BD.m2ts properly. My second suggestion would be to buy a real media streamer -- this forum has tons of information on the most popular models and no shortage of people who will recommend their favorite players.

Your network speeds do bother me though. I don't know how you measured them and whether the slow speeds are a result of the network or the measuring devices. Either way, a throughput of 45Mbps is too slow for full bitrate BD rips. The peak data rate for BD is 48Mbps and the max transfer rate is 54Mbps. You need to be above that and with a wired network you should be above that. It is unlikely your BD player has much in the way of buffer memory to compensate for bandwidth dropouts.

Many people are down on DLNA but it is actually quite good and efficient for streaming BD as long as you are using formats that do not have to be transcoded for your DLNA client device. The two main problems with DLNA are poor DLNA server implementations and poor DLNA clients. Mezzmo is one of the best PC-DLNA servers I've run across and is the only one I recommend, so you have the server side covered. My guess is that the Samsung DLNA client is mostly garbage like the DLNA clients on most other BD players and "smart" HDTV's. I personally steam all my BD.m2ts rips (full bitrate, no re-compression) using DLNA with WD Live players and it works perfectly for even the highest bitrate titles I have.

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post #3 of 27 Old 06-07-2013, 06:42 AM
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Another possible cause is the media player built into the C7900 cant handle the BD bitrates of the video (they are only rated to something like 30Mbps), though if the compressed versions also display this then that probably rules that out. Also testing to see if the files plays okay via USB is another thing you can do.

Make sure your not using HD audio in the container it should be the standard Dolby or DTS core 5.1 track, the media players built into Samsung dont handle HD audio tracks via network streaming.

Go into Mezzmo\media server control panel
1) Verify that Samsung BD profile is applied to the IP of the BD player
2) Disable transcoding in case Mezzmo is looking at the media and thinks it wont play on the BD player natively so forces transcoding of the media.
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post #4 of 27 Old 06-07-2013, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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First, thank you both for the quick replies, I'll try checking the device with a USB connection and contact Concevia regarding Mezzmo. Something I forgot to mention was that my data is stored via a RAID 1 configuration, I don't see why that would have an impact since it is mirroring, but it may.

Kelson - I just ran LAN Speed Test to a shared file on the HTPC from a laptop connected off the line used for the BDP. I admit that for all my experience with computer hardware, I am quite the novice with regard to networking, so if you know a better way to check I'd be interested. The results may have been a result of the tools or my improperly implementing the check as well, so I'm not sure if they are accurate but I had the information so I thought I'd share. I am also getting the Oppo BDP-103 in next week, so until I see how that unit responds I may hold off on going with a full-fledged media streamer until I see if the new unit offers better support.

Alx330 - I'll check the streaming with a USB connection off an external HDD and let you know how it responds. I did turn the transcoding off (when I saw it was on by default I was truly hoping that would solve the problem) but the files are still stuttering. The issue with not using the HD audio tracks is that those are the specific tracks I would like to use with my system, again since I'll have the Oppo BDP-103 in this coming week, I'll try my set-up with that player and see how it responds. I would love to be able to keep the HD audio since that is part of the reason I built my HT system. It is also interesting that when compressed with HandBrake leaving the audio on full passthru (which should just copy the audio exactly and compress the video side if I understand the process and settings I used correctly) there is no issue.

I will update regarding the USB testing and Concevia's response and failing all that, how the Oppo handles things (if I still have issues with the new player, I'll just return it and go with the media streamer). Thank you both again.

-FF

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post #5 of 27 Old 06-07-2013, 11:21 AM
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The Linksys E4200 isn't a bad router/switch as such. I'm assuming it's your main router as well?

Try hooking your BD player network cable into your laptop and run an iPerf test. This is a common test for network speeds. Just google iperf testing and you should be fine.

If the speeds really are that low (45Mbps is different from 45MBps btw. If you meant the latter, then you're ok) you may have a bad or kinked network cable. Try a different cable? Different LAN port on the Linksys?
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post #6 of 27 Old 06-07-2013, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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kapone - Yes the E4200 is my main router as well. I am aware of the bit/Byte difference. Unfortunately I made a different rookie mistake and forgot to turn the wireless connection off prior to running my speed test. With pure Ethernet cable connection the speeds are actually ~496.97Mbps write and ~472.87Mbps read. So the cabling and router should be able to handle the load. I will try ripping a file with just the core audio and not the HD audio per Alx330's suggestion since the files seems to play fine but I noticed my AVR flipping out and flashing between DTS stream and DD trying to handle the audio. If it ends-up that the Samsung BDP is the culprit then hopefully the Oppo will alleviate all the issues. Also I found iPerf and downloaded the utility but it didn't seem to provide any GUI or log where I could see the rates. Perhaps I didn't find a good source for the tool, as before though using LAN speed test with the Ethernet correctly, did provide what I consider more accurate results.

I'll keep trying the suggestions provided and update when I've run through it all. Thanks again for the help so far guys.

-FF

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post #7 of 27 Old 06-07-2013, 01:07 PM
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^ Yay, glad I read all the way through. This is what I suspected, either your was test going across wireless network or a network looping back on wireless to complete the roundtrip path.

I also have E4200, I'm getting almost double that even on 2.4GHz anywhere inside my house. While your issue seems to be resolved, at least on the networking side, if you want tips to optimize your wireless network either PM me or post here, I'll give you some pointers to look at.

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post #8 of 27 Old 06-07-2013, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedFish View Post

I am also getting the Oppo BDP-103 in next week, so until I see how that unit responds I may hold off on going with a full-fledged media streamer until I see if the new unit offers better support.
You may not be aware, but all new BD players, including the Oppo 103, that were made after 2/12 have support for Cinavia. That means you will not be able to use to stream any Cinavia protected content -- primarily Sony BD. Here is the list of Cinavia protected titles.

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post #9 of 27 Old 06-07-2013, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I was unaware of that, thank you. I must say, I understand wanting to prevent piracy but making it more cumbersome on those who own the content is quite frustrating.

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post #10 of 27 Old 06-07-2013, 01:57 PM
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Hmm, I've ripped a few of those titles in the Cinavia list. Not sure which of MakeMKV or DVDFab took care of bypassing Cinavia but it can be done.

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post #11 of 27 Old 06-07-2013, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Kelson - You initially mentioned dedicated media streamers, would Cinavia still cause an issue. As I understand the streamers they don't recognize the BR in a native form and so I'd presume additional protections like this would be moot. I may very well simply opt to add a media streamer to my system if that is the case. I apologize, I know very little about the streamers available and their capabilities and am just curious if this is a route I should seriously pursue.

Additionally, Alx330, it seems that the non-HD audio streams allow for flawless playback. I will check a few more titles when I get back from work, but so far the audio decoding may have been the real issue. It looks like I'll have to consider a few new pieces of hardware because I'd like to have the HD audio and a digital back-up of my collection sans intrusive protections. Thank you all for your help! I cannot begin to tell you how fried I was getting trying to figure out what was going wrong.

-FF

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post #12 of 27 Old 06-07-2013, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedFish View Post

Kelson - You initially mentioned dedicated media streamers, would Cinavia still cause an issue. As I understand the streamers they don't recognize the BR in a native form and so I'd presume additional protections like this would be moot.
No current media streamers support Cinavia. Cinavia support is only required for those devices that need a BDA license -- that would be all BD disk players.

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post #13 of 27 Old 06-08-2013, 12:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Awesome, that is pretty much what I'd been reading, but it is certainly good to have it put explicitly. I decided to go with the Dune HD Base 3D which I will output via HDMI to the Oppo BDP-103 and then on to the rest of the system. My thinking is, and we'll see if I'm right or if I end-up being tragically misguided in my planning, that I can use the Dune streamer to handle my library and output through the Oppo to utilize its processing power. This will also afford me the option of handling the more illustrious HD audio and if desired playing with bluray extras from discs when wanted. It will also help future-proof things a bit with its 4k support. Like I said, I'll soon see if I'm right about getting devices to play nicely or if I'm more of a rookie than I thought. Regardless, thank you all again for your help.

-FF

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post #14 of 27 Old 06-08-2013, 01:04 PM
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The Dune does not have native output. All video will be scaled by the Dune as needed to 1080p so the processing of the Oppo may do more harm than good. Audio will be bitstreamed and not touched by either Dune or Oppo. I would suggest you simply plug the Dune into the HDMI input of your AVR like you will do with the Oppo. The AVR will pass the Dune scaled video through to the display and decode the digital audio.

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post #15 of 27 Old 06-08-2013, 03:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedFish View Post

Awesome, that is pretty much what I'd been reading, but it is certainly good to have it put explicitly. I decided to go with the Dune HD Base 3D which I will output via HDMI to the Oppo BDP-103 and then on to the rest of the system. My thinking is, and we'll see if I'm right or if I end-up being tragically misguided in my planning, that I can use the Dune streamer to handle my library and output through the Oppo to utilize its processing power. This will also afford me the option of handling the more illustrious HD audio and if desired playing with bluray extras from discs when wanted. It will also help future-proof things a bit with its 4k support. Like I said, I'll soon see if I'm right about getting devices to play nicely or if I'm more of a rookie than I thought. Regardless, thank you all again for your help.

-FF
Having played with the HDMI input sincer its launch date, I would say AVOID using the oppo input. You will do more harm than good...
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post #16 of 27 Old 06-08-2013, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Comic guy - thanks for the heads-up, have you had issues even with HDMI from your cable box?

Kelson - thanks for the info.

Thanks for the input. I'm sure I'll play around with it all for a bit before I put everything on the shelf more permanently.

-FF

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Originally Posted by FreedFish View Post

Comic guy - thanks for the heads-up, have you had issues even with HDMI from your cable box?

Kelson - thanks for the info.

Thanks for the input. I'm sure I'll play around with it all for a bit before I put everything on the shelf more permanently.

-FF
Directv box is what I have, and yes I have had issues where it will not sync as well as premium content (hbo, etc) nit playing. Also tried playing my dune B1 through it and had issues as well...
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post #18 of 27 Old 06-10-2013, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't see why the Dune HD base 3D would have a different result which is kind of a bummer (although if the set-up works anyway I'll be happy). I'll let you know if I find anything differently, but I doubt I will. Thanks again for the input.

-FF

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post #19 of 27 Old 10-02-2013, 02:56 AM
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To Freedfish. Hi, hope you are well.

 

I have almost a similar problem as yours. My home network system is very much slower than yours. Cat 5, Switches 10/100 and Dune HD smart D 1 ( up to max 100). If I tried using PC to play any m2ts or mkv files, the resultant pictures are unwatchable. My house 's built-up is about 8,000sq ft. a two storey buildings. Rewiring will be inconvenient and costly. Besides there will be more cost involving many new gigabits switches and a better streaming quality media player. 

 

But I managed to solve the problem !

 

I bought another Dune player ( HD TV 303D ) which is cheaper than smart D1. Connected to my home network. Wow!  the new Dune plays Blueray movie perfectly from anywhere in the house, reading the movie files from Dune HD smart D 1.

 

My Dune Smart D1 is USB connected to 2 passive HDD Bays. My router is at least 200 ft ( the length of the wire Cat 5 and not Cat 5E ) away from Dune HD Smart D 1 .

 

Have tried using OPPO 103 instead of Dune HD TV 303D, pictures are also perfect.

 

I cant explain why? May be the experienced ones here can.

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post #20 of 27 Old 10-03-2013, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Daviddlch - Maybe I am misunderstanding your post. Are you still having an issue getting your media to stream via the OPPO with your set-up or were you offering how you worked around every? If it is the latter, I ended-up running both the Oppo BDP-103 and Dune HD Base 3D in tandem, with neither directly connect to a HDD but rather connected to the DLNA client Mezzmo running off a computer from another room where I had my media stored. I'm in an apartment at the moment and my roommates don't care, so we just have hard wires running along the top of the walls to the system to maintain an unfettered connection which makes changing wires fairly simple. If you are saying that you're still having an issue with the network then I agree permanent wiring would be much more of a hassle to work with. Just give me a little clarity if you could and I'd be happy to help if I can. Take care.

-FF

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post #21 of 27 Old 10-06-2013, 09:53 PM
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Sorry I didnt make myself clear in my last post. English is my second language.

 

Just like you, I am also trying to set up a BR media library for my family . And similarly I had issue on stuttering and unwatchable picture.

 

My setup  : Dune HD Smart D1 with 2 bays of 8x3T HDD sitting in my TV room. My home network consists of the usual router, switches (10/100) , Cat5 cables and PC.

 

I tried using my daughter PC to watch a BR movie in her bedroom, pulling BR data from Dune Media Server in the TV room. The result is far from satisfactory - stuttering and breaking up picture. This has nothing to do with the PC processing speed as I get good viewing result if the same BR movie is transferred to the PC harddisk. By then, I was told it is my slow home network that causes the poor picture.

 

But this may not be the case !

 

I managed to borrow another Dune player HD TV 303D. I hooked it up as a Client to my home network system in my daughter's bedroom and the BR movie played smoothly thru' out.

 

May be someone can explain to me why? Is this the cause of the poor performance of the network infrastucture or something else ?

 

Oh yes, attention to FF. What do you mean when you said your OPPO and Dune are running in tandem ? Are you outputting DSD audio from OPPO to your Amplifier?

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post #22 of 27 Old 10-08-2013, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Hmm, I've ripped a few of those titles in the Cinavia list. Not sure which of MakeMKV or DVDFab took care of bypassing Cinavia but it can be done.
Bypass how? And how did you play back the Cinavia infected files?

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post #23 of 27 Old 10-09-2013, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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techflaws - While I don't want to speak for Nethawk, I would say that some of the files on the lists may not be accurate or that if the copy you had ripped was produced under a different entity than it may not have the audio watermark protection. Additionally if the file had been used on a player that doesn't have Cinavia enforcement on it, then that would give the appearance of 'cracking' any Cinavia protected file. That being said, I 'bypassed' and I use that term loosely here, the Cinavia protection by using the Dune media streamer. Since it doesn't have a built-in Blu-ray player, it doesn't need the licensing that would force Cinavia protection enforcement (as Kelson above pointed out). All-in-all it let's me stream my private collection nicely.

Daviddlch - How are you trying to stream the file onto your daughter's system? I can tell you that I'm using the DLNA server Mezzmo and I would highly recommend it. I can't say that I stream much to non-HT components, maybe a few phones or tablets using DLNA clients, but not really another computer. As for my tandem remark, I didn't intend to make it sound as though they were running through each other, I meant that I have both hooked-up to my Yamaha AVR and I may have misspoken. They are both connected to the network via lengths of Cat6 and then to the AVR via HDMI cables. Both are able to stream a vast majority of my collection with great ease and I love the Oppo, however with some of my files the Cinavia protection doesn't afford me the freedom to stream my media how I like, so for those few files I use the Dune exclusively. It may be that I have some redundant features this way, but I'm happy with how the set-up performs. You are trying to stream these to the computer in your daughter's room, not a TV with HT components, correct? May I ask, in addition to the client or method of streaming you are using, what media software you are using? I know some packages don't always carry the proper codecs and that could be a source of trouble especially if you've tried the connection with another device and that seemed fine. One more thing, I think you implied you were running a wired connection, but I want to make sure I understood correctly. Take care.

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post #24 of 27 Old 10-10-2013, 02:39 AM
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I thought so. AFAIk neither MakeMKV nor DVDFab can "bypass" Cinavia and I'm also doubtful that Slysoft's new tool ever will without serious audio degradation.

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post #25 of 27 Old 10-10-2013, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by FreedFish View Post

Both are able to stream a vast majority of my collection with great ease and I love the Oppo, however with some of my files the Cinavia protection doesn't afford me the freedom to stream my media how I like, so for those few files I use the Dune exclusively.
Interesting. It was reported some time back that the Oppo enforced Cinavia on copies of protected disks (i.e. rip and burn to BD-R) but allowed streaming of a ripped Cinavia protected title. I had always thought that was just an omission in their firmware that would eventually be "corrected" in an update.

Are you saying that the Oppo 103 now enforces Cinavia when streaming a Cinavia protected title?

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post #26 of 27 Old 10-10-2013, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Kelson - I bought my Oppo BDP-103 shortly after starting this thread and checked the streaming and Cinavia issue with a few different titles and I can say that in my experience, yes streamed content was blocked by Cinavia. I'm not sure if this was the case when it first came out, updating the firmware was an early step in my set-up and since I had the Dune I didn't care too much about Cinavia. Also, since Cinavia protected content makes-up a fairly small percentage of my collection, and as before since I like it a bit more than my Dune, I use the Oppo for BR discs and streaming most of my content. Honestly I have the Dune more as a back-up, but it does a wonderful job too - I'd recommend both highly. I also hear people like the Popcorn player media streamer, I'm not sure if I have the name right, but there are plenty of threads here on it.

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post #27 of 27 Old 10-10-2013, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by FreedFish View Post

I bought my Oppo BDP-103 shortly after starting this thread . . . I can say that in my experience, yes streamed content was blocked by Cinavia. I'm not sure if this was the case when it first came out, updating the firmware was an early step in my set-up . . .
Thanks for the confirmation. So it looks like they did "fix" it with a firmware update. Good info to know.

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