What the Heck- is it impossible to get the best bluray, NAS/Harddrive playback AND streaming services in one package? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 52 Old 06-20-2013, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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It seems like no matter what I try to piece together there is no two devices that work for superior Bluray, MKV lossless playback via harddrive or NAS over ethernet, and streaming options like vudu and netflix etc....

I mean, really? Willing to buy two devices here and I can't seem to find a two device solution for the above.

I had potentially narrowed it down to a Pioneer 62fd for bluray and MKV on disc playback coupled with my Xbox 360 for Netflix and Vudu. Seems the 62fd has issues with DTS HD and DD HD, and the xbox is a big fat pile when it comes to grabbing content for streaming even with the assistance of the ipad app.

SO I ask, what is the best option while trying to get superior bluray playback via bd and MKV off hard drive or even better NAS and also have access to all the streaming services?

Excuse the rant. 30 minutes of Microsoft BS and a day of researching the best options has left me with nothing conclusive. mad.gif

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post #2 of 52 Old 06-20-2013, 08:09 PM
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meh. I get all that and live TV with my HTPCs.
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post #3 of 52 Old 06-20-2013, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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That is not an option for me........

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post #4 of 52 Old 06-20-2013, 08:39 PM
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What about a Sony BDP-S390 BD player (or a similar model) that does all the streaming services as well as a BD titles.

Then a Popcorn Hour to play all the rest of your content on a NAS, local hard drive, USB drive etc including MKV with lossless audio. Both are pretty compact devices and would not take up much space in your rack.
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post #5 of 52 Old 06-20-2013, 09:30 PM
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That is not an option for me........
Why not? It does all you want and it doesn't have to be bigger than an Xbox.
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post #6 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 03:48 AM
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Um, I use Oppo 103 and Mede8er 600. Pretty much just works.
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post #7 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lchiu7 View Post

What about a Sony BDP-S390 BD player (or a similar model) that does all the streaming services as well as a BD titles.

Then a Popcorn Hour to play all the rest of your content on a NAS, local hard drive, USB drive etc including MKV with lossless audio. Both are pretty compact devices and would not take up much space in your rack.

Thanks, I will do some more research on the Popcorn hour. They've been around but I've always got the impression people weren't always so happy with them. I will be honest though..... I haven't ever really spent any amount of time researching them.

I'd like to get a Pioneer BDP-62F, to match my Pioneer sc-1522. Same iPad app for the remote, they work together for some picture quality tech, and it's for the most part a highly regarded unit. If only it streamed a couple more video services it would be a done deal.


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Why not? It does all you want and it doesn't have to be bigger than an Xbox.

I have never liked the idea of running everything through a PC. Just isn't appealing to me. I am curious though.... how do you control everything? Is there some master remote made for the computer? Or are you sitting there with a keyboard and mouse?

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Um, I use Oppo 103 and Mede8er 600. Pretty much just works.

The Oppoo 103 had my attention, but there's too many features I'd be paying a premium for that I would never use. From reading some of the Oppo thread it also seems it's a learning process in itself to simply learn how to properly use the thing.

I will look into the Mede8r 600. Never heard of it.


I can't understand why there is not a one box solution. The studios wonder why people are downloading torrents left and right. Because it is easy easy easy. They would make a fortune if they put full uncompressed copies up for sale available via download.

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post #8 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

It seems like no matter what I try to piece together there is no two devices that work for superior Bluray, MKV lossless playback via harddrive or NAS over ethernet, and streaming options like vudu and netflix etc....

I had potentially narrowed it down to a Pioneer 62fd for bluray and MKV on disc playback coupled with my Xbox 360 for Netflix and Vudu

 

One low-end (often $65) solution is the WD TV Play (yes it bitstreams HD audio via DLNA). It's missing Amazon Prime streaming however it does 1080p and DD+ via Netflix. It doesn't support a lot of codecs so it's not full featured by any means... although if your needs are limited and it fits it works rather nicely.

I tried the Pioneer BDP-150 and it would freeze anytime you tried to pause/skip/fast forward MKV files via DLNA. Tried two of them with old and the newest firmware. Not sure the 62FD suffers the same faith.

 

Regarding the HTPC most use a Harmony remote via a IR sensor. There is a link to such in the WMC thread found in my signature.

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post #9 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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What does it mean to bitstream HD audio? Everything I've read has said the WD boxes don't put out DTS HD or DD HD.

Looking at the popcorn A400 it says Audio Decoders:

Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, DTS,WMA, WMA Pro,MPEG-1 Layer 1, 2, 3, MPEG-4 AAC-LC, MPEG-4 HE-AAC, MPEG-4 BSAC ,LPCM, FLAC, Vorbis, TrueAudio, APE Audio

Audio Passthrough:

DTS, DTS-HD HR, DTS-HD MA, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby True HD

What's the difference between Docoders and Passthrough?

I must say, this Popcorn A-400 looks interesting. I could get a simpler Pioneer Blu-Ray/DVD player that supports 3d playback and possibly have it all.

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post #10 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 10:56 AM
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Keyboard, Mouse, WMC Remote, Android tablet app, depends.
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post #11 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I always wondered about that. Thanks.

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post #12 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 11:11 AM
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I urge you to visit the PCH 400 thread both here and on NMT before pulling the trigger. In theory it's a fantastic device, in reality it is anything but...and that's coming from a very hopeful owner who like 95% of what it is and does.

I'm not trying to bash it, I just think people need to be aware of potential issues and consider what they're ready to- potentially- put up with.

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Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #13 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

What does it mean to bitstream HD audio? Everything I've read has said the WD boxes don't put out DTS HD or DD HD.

 

The WD TV Play does... although it lacks a ton of features of the other WD players. It was/is a licensing deal and since the others can decode DTS they couldn't bitstream DTS-HD MA. Since the Play doesn't support DTS they can. Long story short.

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post #14 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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What does it mean to bitstream the audio? I'm not familiar with that.

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post #15 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 11:31 AM
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Your best bet would be to assemble a small HTPC, rip to hard drive, playback over the network through an AVR if you want to pass DTS-MA, or Dolby TrueHD from blu-ray or other content. Or, pick up the WDTV Live Hub. Storage is now up to 2 TB.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.aspx?id=570
Playback formats supported by the WDTV Live Hub
Video - AVI (Xvid, AVC, MPEG1/2/4), MPG/MPEG, VOB, MKV (h.264, x.264, AVC, MPEG1/2/4, VC-1), TS/TP/M2T (MPEG1/2/4, AVC, VC-1), MP4/MOV (MPEG4, h.264), M2TS, WMV9, FLV (h.264)
Photo - JPEG, GIF, TIF/TIFF, BMP, PNG
Audio - MP3, WAV/PCM/LPCM, WMA, AAC, FLAC, MKA, AIF/AIFF, OGG, Dolby Digital, DTS
Playlist - PLS, M3U, WPL
Subtitle - SRT, ASS, SSA, SUB, SMI

I pull content from 2 WDTV Live Hubs, 4 tb of storage in my office, and a 3 tb external drive connected to the HTPC in my basement, and deliver it to the TV in the living room from the HTPC through my receiver. The content, when I access the backed up blu-ray content on the hubs from the HTPC, is decoded in the receiver as DTS-HD MA, or Dolby TrueHD. The WD devices just pass the core DTS audio, but they will pass Dolby Digital +.
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post #16 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe one day when I'm board.

I've got too many other things to learn, setup, and get dialed in at this point. The older I get the less I like to tinker.

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post #17 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone know of a carousel type BD player that holds 2-300 discs and has an on screen menu with cover art etc...?

I've seen it somewhere but can't for the life of me find it now.

The more I read the more I think if I'm going to buy the blu-rays I'd rather just keep them on disc. Pop em' into a juke box and never think about it again.

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post #18 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

What does it mean to bitstream HD?

Pass lossless HD audio formats directly to your AVR, via HDMI or digital optical cable. Basically, you're running the original format of your media, straight to the amplifier. This involves no extra decoding from the amplifier.

Decoding gets a little tricky, when you're downmixing formats.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1376533/faq-on-bitstream-passthrough-reclock
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post #19 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 04:52 PM
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Does anyone know of a carousel type BD player that holds 2-300 discs and has an on screen menu with cover art etc...?

I've seen it somewhere but can't for the life of me find it now.

The more I read the more I think if I'm going to buy the blu-rays I'd rather just keep them on disc. Pop em' into a juke box and never think about it again.



http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BDP-CX7000ES-Blu-ray-Changer-Black/dp/B002JIMRFC

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BDP-CX960-Blu-ray-MegaChanger-Black/dp/B002M78J70

After you see the prices, you might want to back up your blu-ray library to hard drive...
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post #20 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L33TX43RT View Post

Pass lossless HD audio formats directly to your AVR, via HDMI or digital optical cable. Basically, you're running the original format of your media, straight to the amplifier. This involves no extra decoding from the amplifier.

Decoding gets a little tricky, when you're downmixing formats.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1376533/faq-on-bitstream-passthrough-reclock

Thanks I'll read that FAQ. If I have a DTS HD audio blu ray disc that is 5.1, and I have my AVR set to spit out 7.1 does that effect the DTS HD or is that something completely different?

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http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BDP-CX7000ES-Blu-ray-Changer-Black/dp/B002JIMRFC

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-BDP-CX960-Blu-ray-MegaChanger-Black/dp/B002M78J70

After you see the prices, you might want to back up your blu-ray library to hard drive...

I just saw a couple on Amazon, thanks for posting those. I found the one I'd seen demoed on the net. It's the kaleidescape located here http://www.kaleidescape.com/

A review said it was insanely priced so out of curiosity I called a local dealer who was very nice to talk with. He said a basic one tv system would be around 18k eek.gif. Seriously? He also said he did one a while back with 5 TVs and servers etc and it was 55k!

We also talked about that Sony you linked to. He said it was very slow. I need to look at it more closely to see how the, if any, cover flow is displayed and check out the other features.

WTF is Hollywood thinking? Why on earth would they not find a way to provide uncompressed digital movies to people? The more I read, the more I think of the T word. So sad.....

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post #21 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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And that Sony has no 3d. Lame

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post #22 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 05:41 PM
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PDXRealtor, I've been doing this home movie server thing for 11 years. I've tried HTPCs, PopcornHours, Sony GoogleTV, some other streaming device I wouldn't litter my garbage can with, ISO files, MKVs, and several frontends (MainLobby, MyHTPC, Xlobby, Windows Media Center, and most recently Plex) . I researched those Sony carousels and the reviews were horrible. I thought Plex and MKVs was going to be the best, with the ability to stream the MKVs anywhere with an internet connection and to any of my devices. Then a few days ago I ripped A Good Day To Die Hard to MKV and found it would not automatically play the forced subtitles, so I had to turn on all the subtitles. The, when I searched on how to just have the forced subtitles play, I could not isolate the forced only subtitle track and further reading suggests I would need to do at least 2 other ripping and remuxing steps to get it right. WTF? So, I will recommend to you the simplest thing to do. Rip to ISO with AnyDVD/ImageBurn and play through Windows Media Center with the MyMovies plugin on a Zotac ZBOXHD bluray minipc using any of the several air mouses to control. The UI on the Plex client for Windows is horrible (but fine for Android client) and I would only use MKVs and Plex if you have tablets or phones you want to stream to in or out of the house. I only hate MKVs over the forced subtitle thing as I don't want to spend hours screwing around just to get one movie right. WMC/MyMovies is easy to set up and you don't have to worry about subtitles or other things missing when you rip to a full ISO. There are several different ZBOX Bluray PCs and the lower powered Atoms do not play flash/silverlight/netflix well. And for the HTPC browser use Kylo (the most under appreciated HTPC software out there). It will automatically integrate with WMC.
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Oh, and the answer to you post is; without a HTPC, YES!
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Honestly the Oppo BD 103 is looking like a great option. With a simple DUNE box if needed for streaming off the NAS. I need to revisit the OPPO thread.

The Oppo has the online streamers I want, the BD features I want, the ability to play movies off of a hard drive, the ability to play HD content from a mobile device so if I really felt i had to I could use iTunes without Apple TV via our iPhone/pad, and possibly the ability to play off a NAS.

It also connects to Gracenote which means it's going to have some cover flow for your movies files. Whether that's on the NAS or just the media connected via hard drive I'm not sure. At this point I think I'm OK with having a couple 2 TB hard drives for the theater and not even worrying about the NAS except for the bedroom HTIB system, and living room.

So, if I go this route I'm guessing cinevision is going to get in my way if I try to use BD ISO backups on disc. Leaving the only option MKV on disc which will rid me of the cinevision watermark issue, but provide with a host of other issues, subtitles etc.......

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post #25 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hjackson View Post

PDXRealtor, I've been doing this home movie server thing for 11 years. I've tried HTPCs, PopcornHours, Sony GoogleTV, some other streaming device I wouldn't litter my garbage can with, ISO files, MKVs, and several frontends (MainLobby, MyHTPC, Xlobby, Windows Media Center, and most recently Plex) . I researched those Sony carousels and the reviews were horrible. I thought Plex and MKVs was going to be the best, with the ability to stream the MKVs anywhere with an internet connection and to any of my devices. Then a few days ago I ripped A Good Day To Die Hard to MKV and found it would not automatically play the forced subtitles, so I had to turn on all the subtitles. The, when I searched on how to just have the forced subtitles play, I could not isolate the forced only subtitle track and further reading suggests I would need to do at least 2 other ripping and remuxing steps to get it right. WTF? So, I will recommend to you the simplest thing to do. Rip to ISO with AnyDVD/ImageBurn and play through Windows Media Center with the MyMovies plugin on a Zotac ZBOXHD bluray minipc using any of the several air mouses to control. The UI on the Plex client for Windows is horrible (but fine for Android client) and I would only use MKVs and Plex if you have tablets or phones you want to stream to in or out of the house. I only hate MKVs over the forced subtitle thing as I don't want to spend hours screwing around just to get one movie right. WMC/MyMovies is easy to set up and you don't have to worry about subtitles or other things missing when you rip to a full ISO. There are several different ZBOX Bluray PCs and the lower powered Atoms do not play flash/silverlight/netflix well. And for the HTPC browser use Kylo (the most under appreciated HTPC software out there). It will automatically integrate with WMC.

You just said what I typed while you were typing! It's such a PITA to do the MKV thing. How are you getting around the cinevision watermark issue with the HTPC?

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post #26 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
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You just said what I typed while you were typing! It's such a PITA to do the MKV thing. How are you getting around the cinevision watermark issue with the HTPC?
That's Cinavia, and the most common way around it is to rip your BluRays to MKV and use a non-aacs licensed player.
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post #27 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

That's Cinavia, and the most common way around it is to rip your BluRays to MKV and use a non-aacs licensed player.

Cinavia! Thanks for correcting me.

At this point I'm really thinking along the lines of hjackson and going with ISO backups on hard drives or NAS only, which should negate Cinavia completely since I'd play back from hard drive vs. disc.

I've had WD LIVE boxes and MKV files for a few years and, I agree with Jackson. It's a PITA crap shoot with MKV. Add 3d to the mix and it just gets worse.

If I go the route of backup and hard disc playback I think, at this point, ISO would be the best way for me.

I could possibly be just as happy with a juke box style setup.

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post #28 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

So, if I go this route I'm guessing cinevision is going to get in my way if I try to use BD ISO backups on disc. Leaving the only option MKV on disc which will rid me of the cinevision watermark issue...
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At this point I'm really thinking along the lines of hjackson and going with ISO backups on hard drives or NAS only, which should negate Cinavia completely since I'd play back from hard drive vs. disc.
You do not understand Cinavia. Nothing negates it. There is no removal and no work-around and it is independent of container type. Repackaging to MKV does nothing and it doesn't matter if the content is on a NAS, server or attached HDD. If the original disk is Cinavia protected, the rip (in any form) will not play on any Cinavia enabled player -- period. All current equipment with a post 2/12 BDA license supports Cinavia. That includes all BD disk players licensed after 2/12 including the Oppo 103. Currently no media streamers have Cinavia. So, unless you don't want to watch any Sony BluRay rips, forget about using a BD player as a streamer.
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post #29 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
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You do not understand Cinavia. Nothing negates it. There is no removal and no work-around and it is independent of container type. Repackaging to MKV does nothing and it doesn't matter if the content is on a NAS, server or attached HDD. If the original disk is Cinavia protected, the rip (in any form) will not play on any Cinavia enabled player -- period. All current equipment with a post 2/12 BDA license supports Cinavia. That includes all BD disk players licensed after 2/12 including the Oppo 103. Currently no media streamers have Cinavia. So, unless you don't want to watch any Sony BluRay rips, forget about using a BD player as a streamer.

What you're saying is kind of contradicting. In one sentence you're saying if the original disk is Cinavia protected the rip will not play on a Cinavia player. However the Cinavia player is only a 'player' if it has a blu- ray disc player in it.

That leaves tons of room for options when determining a media streamer. If trying to play a Cinavia on a Oppo 103 via hard disc rip I don't see how the watermark is going to stop me. But if you say so I'll note it.

Really .... if Hollywood spent more time trying to deliver full content to digital streamers and digital purchasers/subscribers in stead of creating new 'watermarks' I believe they'd be making tons more cash, vs. spending tons of cash to in the end prevent them from making more.

Whatever.... it's a pain to steal it, it's a pain to buy it and 'back it up', and it's a pain to buy it and just use it as intended. It's also a pain to rent (assuming you want full BD qual.) And just about the time I have my BD collection built up I'll do just as mom and dad. Put it up for sale in favor of the new tech. Then hang the discs on my wall because no one wants them.

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post #30 of 52 Old 06-21-2013, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxrealtor View Post

What you're saying is kind of contradicting. In one sentence you're saying if the original disk is Cinavia protected the rip will not play on a Cinavia player. However the Cinavia player is only a 'player' if it has a blu- ray disc player in it.

That leaves tons of room for options when determining a media streamer. If trying to play a Cinavia on a Oppo 103 via hard disc rip I don't see how the watermark is going to stop me. But if you say so I'll note it.
There is no contradiction. My quote was "If the original disk is Cinavia protected, the rip (in any form) will not play on any Cinavia enabled player -- period." I can't make it clearer than that.

A Cinavia enabled player will only play Cinavia protected content from the original commercial BD disk -- that is the whole purpose of Cinavia, not to prevent the making of copies but to prevent the playing of copies whether they be burned to disk or stored on a HDD. The Oppo 103, like all new BD players, will only play Cinavia protected content from the original studio disk. If you rip the content to a HDD and try to stream it with the Oppo, the Cinavia watermark will tell the Oppo the content is Cinavia protected. The Oppo will then look to see if you are playing the content from original disk and if not, it will cut out the audio after 20 min and display a nasty-gram on the screen telling you you are trying to play an illegal copy.

Any player with a BDA license issued after 2/12 must be Cinavia enabled. That includes all BD disk players and PC software for playing BD disks on a PC -- Power DVD, Win DVD, Nero, Total Media Theater. A BDA license is also required for advanced BD menu features like BD Live so, although no current media streamers are Cinavia enabled, any new media streamers that want to offer the full BD menu experience will likely need a BDA license and with that would come Cinavia.

Again: Any player that is Cinavia enabled will only play Cinavia protected content from the original commercial disk. Use a BD player to play BD disks and optionally to access Internet content sites. Use a media player for local content streaming.

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