Has anyone done ethernet over coax? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 09-23-2013, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Not sure if this is exactly the right spot to post this, but seems reasonably close.

So, I have wireless connectivity throughout my house, and it seems to work well. Laptop, Ipad, Iphone all connect fine, with no issues. Blu-ray players on the other hand seem to have some difficulty - either in the connection phase, or even if they do connect, lots of problems with Netflix streaming.

Easy solution for 2 out of 3 players is a wired ethernet connection. Done and done.

But, the 3rd player is in a location that does not currently have an ethernet drop, and in such a place that I cannot get an ethernet drop to it (2nd floor, with finished basement below).

I do, however, have a readily accessible 2nd coax (RG6) connection in that area. Did some research over the weekend, and found it is POSSIBLE to get ethernet over coax. But, the gear needed to do it seems somewhat expensive.


So, I guess before I go further down this road, the questions would be:

1) Is anyone doing this? If so, how well does it work?
2) What gear are you using to do it?
3) Is it worth the cost of the gear needed to do it?


Any help/thoughts are appreciated.

FWIW, I am in Canada - which is noteworthy only so far as the possible availability/end cost of the required switches/adapters/bridges, etc.


Thx.

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post #2 of 25 Old 09-23-2013, 08:21 AM
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Luckily I missed the days of coax Local area networks outside of school lab settings, and I would not EVER consider going back that way.

My first thought is to rather try one the 'homeplug' kits, that is basically just two units with rj-45 points you plug into a power socket that then uses the in-house wiring to run the signal between each device.

Now I don't know exactly what is available in Canada but at worst this will give you an explanation on the concept and the terminology needed to find similar products available.
http://reviews.cnet.com/2733-3243_7-568-8.html
I am 100% certain you will find something.

The price could vary from maybe 50 usd to about 200usd, depends how much bandwidth etc you need, but for HT devices that otherwise would be happy with a wifi connection even the basic <100Mb\s should do.
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post #3 of 25 Old 09-23-2013, 10:38 AM
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MoCA Works great. I have Fios which uses MoCA to distribute tv/vod and such I use a ethernet to MoCA bridge and it works fine. They are pricey but they do work. MoCA is more reliable then power line adapters though
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post #4 of 25 Old 09-23-2013, 03:48 PM
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I am using MoCA to provide a network bridge between two areas of my house that were directly connected with a coax (but no ethernet) cable. I am using a pair of Netgear MCAB1001 ethernet-to-coax adapters - but this is now a discontinued product. In my experience the performance and reliability of the connection is excellent - and in theory should be superior to that of powerline networking.

If one is looking to buy a pair of MoCA standard ethernet-to-coax bridge devices today, there are few available options. The product most easily available in Canada is made by Actiontec, and a pair of their adapters costs almost $200.

Incidentally, I think the experience TorTorden's commented on above was probably based on the old (and now obsolete) 10Base2 networking standard, which used a single thin coaxial cable to carry the ethernet data. The performance of MoCA over standard in-home coax cable is far superior to what 10Base2 was capable of.
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post #5 of 25 Old 09-23-2013, 11:29 PM
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I use both Netgear Moca and powerline. They both work pretty well. In general, the powerline adapters have worked better. They are faster and easier to set up, since you don't have to mess with the coax cables. The coax does better with really long ranges.

The main downside to both of these is that they add latency compared to Ethernet. Where latency is a concern, like games and media extenders, Ethernet is much better.
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post #6 of 25 Old 09-24-2013, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the answers. I might try powerline as this seems more affordable, and the run is not extremely long. EDIT: Looks like powerline might be out. Just reading on another forum that powerline ethernet adapters are known to cause problems for my ActionTech router. Bah!! frown.gif


But, before I do, let me also ask this question.

I have one of these wi-fi range extender/repeater things: http://www.startech.com/Networking-IO/Wireless/Wi-Fi-Wireless-Range-Extender-300-Mbps-b-g-n-Access-Point-Repeater-Signal-Booster~WFREPEAT300N

I bought this to try to extend the range of the wireless coverage to the spot where my wireless BD player is, thinking it was simply a "dead" spot; didn't make any difference.


It has an RJ-45 port on the side, which I used to initially connect it to my laptop to do the setup. My question is, is this a "one-way" port? If this thing does what it should and picks up the wireless network, effectively bringing the network to the spot I want it, can I connect an ethernet cable from this port to my BD player and therefore "wire" the player to the network? Which basically then is doing the same thing as the powerline adapters.

I've tried to search for instructions/information which would tell me if this would work, but can't seem to find anything. frown.gif

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post #7 of 25 Old 09-25-2013, 12:25 PM
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I've done it using the Nim 100s.  You can usually find them stateside on ebay for ~$50.  I've gotten throughput of roughly 30Mbps.  Search google and you'll find plenty of info on the topic.

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post #8 of 25 Old 09-26-2013, 07:44 PM
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The fact that you have RG6 coax implies you have a pretty new cable system. Older houses with RG59 and more importantly old splitters can be a problem for MoCA.

These older splitters  have bandwidth limits that filter out the frequencies used in MoCA systems.

 

If you don't want to crawl under the house or through the attic, to replace splitters, you can use the DECA units used by DirecTV for "wholehouse" (ethernet over coax); which use a lower frequency.

 

If you use DECA, make sure your cable system isn't "live" or even connected to the line out to the street, first.

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post #9 of 25 Old 10-03-2013, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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So, it has come to my attention that ethernet over phoneline might be possible. Anybody using something like THIS: http://www.aptolution.com/av128-phoneline-ethernet-bridge-p-108.html

I can't quite figure out how this works - the guide basically says you plug it into the phone line and then plug it into your device (in my case a blu-ray player); but, how does the phoneline get connected to the LAN? Do you need 2 of these units?

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post #10 of 25 Old 10-03-2013, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2011 View Post

So, it has come to my attention that ethernet over phoneline might be possible. Anybody using something like THIS: http://www.aptolution.com/av128-phoneline-ethernet-bridge-p-108.html

I can't quite figure out how this works - the guide basically says you plug it into the phone line and then plug it into your device (in my case a blu-ray player); but, how does the phoneline get connected to the LAN? Do you need 2 of these units?

This is old tech - SmartHome used to carry these but has discontinued. Corinex website doesn't bother to list them anymore. You need two to make it work.


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post #11 of 25 Old 10-03-2013, 10:54 AM
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Basically you're running VDSL over the phone line and there are muxes at each end to convert the DSL signalling into Ethernet. I was involved with developing that standard in the late 90's for a company called Net2Net. You can get some of the product here and would most likely serve your needs fine.

http://www.dsl-warehouse.com/product_info.php?cPath=55&products_id=295&osCsid=938f1335334774049b6c22611cd0f1d6

The other thing you can do is check you phone cabling, if it's a newer home, it's possible you have cat-3 cabling installed in which case you could just terminate RJ-45 connectors onto the cable and run good old 10-BaseT ethernet (10Mbps). Not sure what kind of speeds you need at this location, but 10Mbps is more then enough for Internet streaming services and local 1080P compress video.
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post #12 of 25 Old 10-03-2013, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bac522 View Post

Basically you're running VDSL over the phone line and there are muxes at each end to convert the DSL signalling into Ethernet. I was involved with developing that standard in the late 90's for a company called Net2Net. You can get some of the product here and would most likely serve your needs fine.

http://www.dsl-warehouse.com/product_info.php?cPath=55&products_id=295&osCsid=938f1335334774049b6c22611cd0f1d6

The other thing you can do is check you phone cabling, if it's a newer home, it's possible you have cat-3 cabling installed in which case you could just terminate RJ-45 connectors onto the cable and run good old 10-BaseT ethernet (10Mbps). Not sure what kind of speeds you need at this location, but 10Mbps is more then enough for Internet streaming services and local 1080P compress video.


Hmmm...interesting. I will definitely verify whether it is Cat 3; the house is less than 4 years old, so it's a possibility. Thanks.

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post #13 of 25 Old 10-04-2013, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Bah!! Figures - phone cables are basic 4 conductor. Funny thing is I had to add an additional run when we were finishing our basement and the cable I bought was Cat 3.

I may never be able to stream at this particular location frown.gif

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post #14 of 25 Old 10-07-2013, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2011 View Post

Bah!! Figures - phone cables are basic 4 conductor. Funny thing is I had to add an additional run when we were finishing our basement and the cable I bought was Cat 3.

I may never be able to stream at this particular location frown.gif
If you're willing to abandon the phone line for telephone use- I'd try wiring it for 10/100 connection.
Gigabit uses all 8 wires in cat5/6 cable, but 10/100BASE-T only uses 4 wires. You may be able to use the 4 conductor cable you have at that location.
I'd give it a try and see what happens....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10BASE-T

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post #15 of 25 Old 10-07-2013, 09:46 AM
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I've been using this MOCA kit since about April to route internet over coax from my modem/router upstairs to an 8-port ethernet switch in my living room downstairs that all my devices (Blu-Ray, Apple TV, ROKU, Denon AVR, etc) are wired to. It's worked phenomenally well without a single hitch.

http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Ethernet-Adapter-Service-ECB2500CK01/dp/B008EQ4BQG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381164184&sr=8-1&keywords=moca+actiontec
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post #16 of 25 Old 10-07-2013, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2011 View Post

I have one of these wi-fi range extender/repeater things: http://www.startech.com/Networking-IO/Wireless/Wi-Fi-Wireless-Range-Extender-300-Mbps-b-g-n-Access-Point-Repeater-Signal-Booster~WFREPEAT300N

I bought this to try to extend the range of the wireless coverage to the spot where my wireless BD player is, thinking it was simply a "dead" spot; didn't make any difference.


It has an RJ-45 port on the side, which I used to initially connect it to my laptop to do the setup. My question is, is this a "one-way" port? If this thing does what it should and picks up the wireless network, effectively bringing the network to the spot I want it, can I connect an ethernet cable from this port to my BD player and therefore "wire" the player to the network? Which basically then is doing the same thing as the powerline adapters.

I've tried to search for instructions/information which would tell me if this would work, but can't seem to find anything. frown.gif

The answer is yes when you set up this unit in a repeater mode and this would be the best and easiest route to go. You should be able to run this to BD device as a standard ethernet to wi-fi bridge from what I see. What problems did you have in setting this up?
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post #17 of 25 Old 10-09-2013, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post

I've been using this MOCA kit since about April to route internet over coax from my modem/router upstairs to an 8-port ethernet switch in my living room downstairs that all my devices (Blu-Ray, Apple TV, ROKU, Denon AVR, etc) are wired to. It's worked phenomenally well without a single hitch.

http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Ethernet-Adapter-Service-ECB2500CK01/dp/B008EQ4BQG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1381164184&sr=8-1&keywords=moca+actiontec

I have the same kit, plugged one end next to modem and the other in the room I needed to stream to. Up and running in 5 minutes, everything just works and HD streams perfectly (Netflix/Amazon/1080p from Synology). Beats running wire or rolling my eyes at buffering over wireless. If tomorrow I want to stream to another room, I just move the adapter (or get another one) wink.gif
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post #18 of 25 Old 10-11-2013, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bisha View Post

I have the same kit, plugged one end next to modem and the other in the room I needed to stream to. Up and running in 5 minutes, everything just works and HD streams perfectly (Netflix/Amazon/1080p from Synology). Beats running wire or rolling my eyes at buffering over wireless. If tomorrow I want to stream to another room, I just move the adapter (or get another one) wink.gif

Thanks. I'll give this more consideration, although it is basically almost twice the price here in Canada.

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post #19 of 25 Old 10-11-2013, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by replayrob View Post

If you're willing to abandon the phone line for telephone use- I'd try wiring it for 10/100 connection.
Gigabit uses all 8 wires in cat5/6 cable, but 10/100BASE-T only uses 4 wires. You may be able to use the 4 conductor cable you have at that location.
I'd give it a try and see what happens....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10BASE-T

That particular phone drop is not being used, so I have no problems abandoning it as a phone line.

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post #20 of 25 Old 10-11-2013, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is a possible additional option that has come to my attention: 2 Sonos bridges.

I have been considering a Sonos system in my home for a while. The only piece I currently have right now is 1 ZoneBridge, as I got it on a clearance sale for cheap. From what I am reading, if I connect a ZoneBridge to my router, then plug in a ZoneBridge somewhere else, they should connect wirelessly, then I can use the ethernet jacks on the back of the 2nd bridge to plug in my blu-ray player.

The Sonos wireless network is something unto itself - not wi-fi - so I'm thinking I shouldn't have any interference issues if I do this.


Thoughts?

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post #21 of 25 Old 10-11-2013, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bac522 View Post

The answer is yes when you set up this unit in a repeater mode and this would be the best and easiest route to go. You should be able to run this to BD device as a standard ethernet to wi-fi bridge from what I see. What problems did you have in setting this up?

The repeater seemed to "work"; the blu-ray was recognizing it, but the actual connection problems persisted. Doesn't seem like it was a "dead spot" issue at all.

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post #22 of 25 Old 10-19-2013, 05:11 PM
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I'm using MoCA adapters to feed Netflix to a blu-ray player on another floor when WiFi kept dropping and powerline adapters were worse than wifi. 3 years without any issues.
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post #23 of 25 Old 10-20-2013, 02:21 AM
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As of now i have Comcast. Fios should be available by the first week of November. From what i understand Fios cant use the same wires that Comcast has in the house they have to use their own. This means i can use the Comcast wires as my network. Do I still need to change out the Comcast splitters?
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post #24 of 25 Old 10-21-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aufVidyZen View Post

The fact that you have RG6 coax implies you have a pretty new cable system. Older houses with RG59 and more importantly old splitters can be a problem for MoCA.
These older splitters  have bandwidth limits that filter out the frequencies used in MoCA systems.

If you don't want to crawl under the house or through the attic, to replace splitters, you can use the DECA units used by DirecTV for "wholehouse" (ethernet over coax); which use a lower frequency.

If you use DECA, make sure your cable system isn't "live" or even connected to the line out to the street, first.

This is what I do. I run an ethernet switch at the Deca to get wired internet to all my devices in that room but I am wondering if it will work without Directv. The Deca's at the back of each receiver get power from the receiver. They won't work if not connected to the receiver.
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post #25 of 25 Old 10-25-2013, 05:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2011 View Post

Here is a possible additional option that has come to my attention: 2 Sonos bridges.

I have been considering a Sonos system in my home for a while. The only piece I currently have right now is 1 ZoneBridge, as I got it on a clearance sale for cheap. From what I am reading, if I connect a ZoneBridge to my router, then plug in a ZoneBridge somewhere else, they should connect wirelessly, then I can use the ethernet jacks on the back of the 2nd bridge to plug in my blu-ray player.

The Sonos wireless network is something unto itself - not wi-fi - so I'm thinking I shouldn't have any interference issues if I do this.


Thoughts?


FYI, I have set up a Sonos system now. I have a bridge plugged into my router (actually into a switch that is plugged into my router), which "feeds" the Sonos wireless system. Right now I have a Play 3 in my den and a Play 5 in the great room/family room - as the Play 5 is on top of the entertainment stand where I put the blu-ray player I want to get an internet connection to, I am able to use one of the ethernet ports on the back of the Play 5 to get said internet connection to the BD player. And voila! Internet where there was none, and Netflix works fine.

I may or may not end up keeping the full Sonos system, but I did purchase a 2nd bridge so that if I don't keep the Sonos speakers, I can use the 2nd bridge the way I am using the Play 5 (ie. for the ethernet port connectivity).

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