Asking for help in how to setup local movie rips accessed from a Media Management Device - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 11-02-2013, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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All,

I've done some research but I am trying to avoid saving some research time and am hoping I can get some quick answers on the questions below.

My goal is to have access my current movie collection (I own the original Blu-Ray discs for all of my movies) with a nice interface without having to disc swap in a Blu-Ray player. I will not be streaming to other devices in the home so a NAS doesn't sound like the best option. I don't want to lose A/V quality of the Blu-Ray transfer with any sort of compression.

Having said that:

1. Is it possible to only purchase a network device such as the WD Live TV device and connect and external HD to this device to accomplish this? I am not partial to this device but I would really prefer to purchase a media manager that is controllable via IP rather than IR using my iOS iRule app.

RIPPING REQUIREMENTS
  • When ripping the movies I want to preserve the high quality A/V that is currently on the disc.
  • I only need the movie itself along with the uncompressed English track on the disc so I would like the previews, extras, other audiio tracks, subtitles, etc to be removed. The only extra that I might want would be the movie trailer. The Menu isn't necessary
  • I want the ability to use the chapters.
  • I want the interface used to be able to grab cover art and meta-data for each movie.

To rip the movies with the requirements above:

2. Would I need to rip the movies to an ISO file with something like IMGBRN and strip the extra info using Clown BD?
3. If so, does this maintain the same video quality of the Blu-Ray disc? and also keep the quality of an uncompressed audio track such as DTS-Master?

Thanks in advance for the help.
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post #2 of 34 Old 11-02-2013, 01:45 PM
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One Step Rip

Use MakeMKV to create a single MKV file for each movie with chapters. Only select the desired video and audio tracks (I only use the HD track since everything I have supports it). Name each movie "Title (Year).bluray.mkv" (i.e. Casablanca (1942).bluray.mkv) The result will be a perfect bit-for-bit backup with zero transcoding or re-compression.

Media Player

Use a dedicated HTPC running OpenElec (XBMC) to play the movies from an internal or external hard drive. You can use something as inexpensive as an Intel NUC (Celeron or i3) or an AMD "Hudson" or one with an Nvidia ION GPU. (I use an Intel Celeron NUC that was <$200 for base unit, memory, and IR receiver) Even the lowliest NUC running OpenELEC supports hardware decoding of h.264/VC-1/MPEG2 and bit-streaming HD audio (or LPCM conversion) via HDMI. XBMC will "scrape" the movie info from the naming convention used above to collect cover art and meta-data. Everything is presented with a very slick (in a good way) 1080p interface. I recommend the Aeon Nux add-on skin. wink.gif

Control

Use iRule or the XBMC app for iOS to control XBMC

Enjoy!
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post #3 of 34 Old 11-02-2013, 11:00 PM
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You can use the WDTV to play HD MKVs from an attached HDD or via NAS. There's also smartphones apps for remote control.

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post #4 of 34 Old 11-03-2013, 12:47 AM
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I personally use Dune D1 + 10Muse jukebox + 10 Muse iPad app. Works great. However, Dune Smart Series are pretty expensive. Then you have Mede8er and PCH. Then you've got the less expensive media player such as WDTV, Pivo Aios, Sony NSZ-GS7 + Plex, etc. Or you can use an HTPC with XBMC. Lots of options out there. It all depends on your budget.

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post #5 of 34 Old 11-03-2013, 07:29 AM
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Dvdfabhd has a free ripping program. Google dvdfabhd free. Been using it for years, though i finally paid for the limetime license. It allows you to rip either the full movie, or just the main movie with your desired audio track. You can rip to straight folder, bdmv folder, or to ISO. It does iso automatically when imgburn is installed.

If you use a htpc you have unlimited possibilities and really can have anything you want. The only downside is the size of the computer, unless your using an nuc, and the additional work of maintaining an operating system. And the price.

If you go with a set top box like the wdtv live smp, kdlinks, boxee, etc, you will have to research and prepare your media a specific way to play nice with these. There are limitations with all of them. For instance, i just got the wdtv smp and it doesnt have a license to play dts ma. It will just play dts core. Not a huge deal but you seem to want 100% pure rip.

These set top boxes are great for simplicity, plug and play, no OS mainentence, small footprint, small price. Do yourself a favor and get a dedicated htpc if you want all that you said in your post.

In the past i used windows 7 media center for my dvds, and powerdvd to play my blu ray rips. All my movies are catagorized with the program "my movies" which provides all the metadat, cover art, etc. but i am in a transition phase currently.
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post #6 of 34 Old 11-03-2013, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by johnBlanker View Post

The only downside is the size of the computer, unless your using an nuc, and the additional work of maintaining an operating system. And the price.
+1

These are all the reasons that I never went "all in" on a HTPC. Every time I either priced one out or tried getting an OS (Windows/Mac/Linux) with the desired features to play nice 24/7 I told myself, "it's not quite there yet." There was always a piece of the puzzle missing--either the price, or the size, or the expense, or the reliability, or the some missing feature, or some missing playback compatibility, or epsecially the ease of use for family members.

The NUC + OpenELEC solved all these problems, IMHO. The assembled price is competitive with full featured dedicated media players but the features and performance blow them out of the water, IMHO. The fact that OpenELEC is free and updates itself is just icing on the cake.
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post #7 of 34 Old 11-03-2013, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply guys.

As a test I downloaded XBMC on my Windows 7 PC and ripped a few Blu-Rays and DVDs using MKV and both seem simple enough to use. Having multiple skin choices is nice as well and makes for a very nice looking interface. Full screen higher bitrate Blu-Ray on my lower end HTPC skipped but they play fine outside of the XBMC interface. I'm sure this wouldn't be an issue on the openelec OS which wouldn't have all the overhead and have an anti-virus programs and such running in the background.

A standalone player sounds better in that there will be enough time involved as is ripping a couple hundred movies to disk but at the same time it sound like I might run into issues with compatibility and such. I definitely want DTS-MA HD streaming.

I'll look at the Dune also even though it's only listed as IR controllable in iRule.

If I decided to rip 3D Blu-Ray Discs also would a NUC still suffice? I see Dune has a standalone 3D device at $299.
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post #8 of 34 Old 11-03-2013, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

One Step Rip

...Control

Use iRule or the XBMC app for iOS to control XBMC

Enjoy!

Just curious if you know If iRule is used is there a specific device to add or would this be a custom device to be added with customer commands (hex)?
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post #9 of 34 Old 11-03-2013, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Full screen higher bitrate Blu-Ray on my lower end HTPC skipped but they play fine outside of the XBMC interface. I'm sure this wouldn't be an issue on the openelec OS which wouldn't have all the overhead and have an anti-virus programs and such running in the background.
FWIW, OpenELEC can be booted from a reasonably fast USB memory stick so it's easy to try it with an existing PC/HTPC to check it out provided the hardware is supported.
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Just curious if you know If iRule is used is there a specific device to add or would this be a custom device to be added with customer commands (hex)?
Good question, I have no idea. I saw folks were using iRule on an XBMC forum but never pursued it further because I'm using a Harmony universal remote. Since it's IP control I'm sure you could check it out with your Win7 machine if desired.
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post #10 of 34 Old 11-03-2013, 06:55 PM
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Forget MKV. Do yourself a favor an make ISO's. I've been down the mkv route (as recently as last week). It's a PIA. You need to select correct titles, subs and audio and then check everything. you'll waste 20-30 mins per title to save 10GB per movie (200 movies = 2TB = $100 = 50c per movie).

My advice, buy AnyDVDHD, image to ISO and find a streamer/player that plays ISO's. Google any ripper/MKV player out there any you'll find "this title doesn't work"; "audio drop outs", "no subs", etc. If I was unemployed, had no cash or had a lot of spare time, I'd think about MKV, but I want full PQ and choice of audio, etc. With ISO, it's guaranteed. With anything else it's a compromise or not worth the effort.

I know I'll get tons of flames about this, but trust me, it's the best route IMHO
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post #11 of 34 Old 11-03-2013, 07:01 PM
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I don't use ISOs or M2TS anymore. All I use is MKVs. They work and forced subs work.

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post #12 of 34 Old 11-04-2013, 12:42 PM
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You have to pick a media player and find out what it likes. Some like ISO, others don't. Same with MKV. One benefit with ISo is that If you ever want to burn it back onto disc you can with minimal effort. MKV is great if you just want the main movie and free up file size. It might also be the only option with episodic titles (tv shows).

From my research here the DUNE seems to be the best of the best. But they are pricy. Have you looked at the KDlinks 700 player? Seems to be a crowd fav over at amazon.
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post #13 of 34 Old 11-05-2013, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_anderson_u View Post

Forget MKV. Do yourself a favor an make ISO's. I've been down the mkv route (as recently as last week). It's a PIA. You need to select correct titles, subs and audio and then check everything. you'll waste 20-30 mins per title to save 10GB per movie (200 movies = 2TB = $100 = 50c per movie).My advice, buy AnyDVDHD, image to ISO and find a streamer/player that plays ISO's. Google any ripper/MKV player out there any you'll find "this title doesn't work"; "audio drop outs", "no subs", etc. If I was unemployed, had no cash or had a lot of spare time, I'd think about MKV, but I want full PQ and choice of audio, etc. With ISO, it's guaranteed. With anything else it's a compromise or not worth the effort.I know I'll get tons of flames about this, but trust me, it's the best route IMHO

Try clicking the checkboxes a bit faster and not waste 20-30 mins per movie....
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post #14 of 34 Old 11-05-2013, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_anderson_u View Post

Forget MKV. Do yourself a favor an make ISO's. I've been down the mkv route (as recently as last week). It's a PIA. You need to select correct titles, subs and audio and then check everything. you'll waste 20-30 mins per title to save 10GB per movie (200 movies = 2TB = $100 = 50c per movie).

My advice, buy AnyDVDHD, image to ISO and find a streamer/player that plays ISO's. Google any ripper/MKV player out there any you'll find "this title doesn't work"; "audio drop outs", "no subs", etc. If I was unemployed, had no cash or had a lot of spare time, I'd think about MKV, but I want full PQ and choice of audio, etc. With ISO, it's guaranteed. With anything else it's a compromise or not worth the effort.

I know I'll get tons of flames about this, but trust me, it's the best route IMHO

Really, I used to think like you. That ISO was the best way to go. Now, I use MKV for everything since their is a patch created for Dune media players that will recognize forced subs. Saving 10 GB or more per movie is good savings when you have a large media collection. biggrin.gif So, I would suggest to keep an open mind.wink.gif

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post #15 of 34 Old 11-05-2013, 06:26 AM
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IMHO, anybody ripping Blu Ray discs to ISO is setting themselves up for a world of hurt down the road as it is very unlikely that any future players will support BR ISO while that capability is also being systematically removed from existing players. Those ISOs libraries will eventually have to be remuxed when one upgrades his/her equipment.

The latest settlement involved Pivos and more are likely:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/blu-ray-disc-association-secures-130000372.html

Another example is the Oppo 103 player that lost ISO support after the SOC supplier (Mediatek) removed it from the SDK at the request of the BDA. Given the history I think it's safe to assume that the BDA is exerting similar pressure on the other chipset manufacturers. The same chipsets being used in media players are also used in disc players and it's clear that the BDA is carrying a big stick given BR sales volume.

Meanwhile, MKV is a widely supported container and ubiquitous.
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post #16 of 34 Old 11-05-2013, 06:47 AM
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You have to pick a media player and find out what it likes. Some like ISO, others don't. Same with MKV.
...

This is probably the most prudent advice.

ISO, MKV, and BD folder structure are like choosing plastic or paper at the grocery checkout. It is the content inside that matters. Some players are better equipped at handling plastic and others are designed for paper. You can always move the content from one to the other with a little effort. There is no future proof decision because the future is unknown and constantly in flux, especially in the realm of media streamers, content licensing, and copy protection.

I personally chose BD folder structure because it appears to be the base minimal that is supported by most players without major glitches.

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post #17 of 34 Old 11-05-2013, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

IMHO, anybody ripping Blu Ray discs to ISO is setting themselves up for a world of hurt down the road as it is very unlikely that any future players will support BR ISO while that capability is also being systematically removed from existing players. Those ISOs libraries will eventually have to be remuxed when one upgrades his/her equipment.

The latest settlement involved Pivos and more are likely:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/blu-ray-disc-association-secures-130000372.html

Another example is the Oppo 103 player that lost ISO support after the SOC supplier (Mediatek) removed it from the SDK at the request of the BDA. Given the history I think it's safe to assume that the BDA is exerting similar pressure on the other chipset manufacturers. The same chipsets being used in media players are also used in disc players and it's clear that the BDA is carrying a big stick given BR sales volume.

Meanwhile, MKV is a widely supported container and ubiquitous.
Could not the same occur with MKV? At this time it seems like MKV would concern the Blu-Ray folks more so as it is the container of choice for pirating.
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post #18 of 34 Old 11-05-2013, 07:51 AM
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Could not the same occur with MKV? At this time it seems like MKV would concern the Blu-Ray folks more so as it is the container of choice for pirating.
Yes and no.

BDA owns the rights to the BR disc folder structure so that's why they have a strong arm in regard to BR ISO.

BDA does not own or control MKV but they could conceivably try to exert pressure on the SOC manufacturers indirectly for use in dedicated media players. They have no recourse, however, to prevent MKV support with software players (i.e. HTPC) so the cat is mostly out of the bag.

Also, remuxing MKV to M2TS in real time is also trivial for modern DLNA servers and requires very little CPU power. This is why folks can use DLNA server software (example: Serviio) on their NAS or low-powered server and "play" MKV files with bit-for-bit quality on Blu Ray players (example: Sony) via DLNA that otherwise don't support MKV. The key is having the desired video/audio/sub tracks in a container that is widely supported as remuxing to a different container for network streaming is the easy part (relatively speaking.)
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post #19 of 34 Old 11-05-2013, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluechunks View Post

IMHO, anybody ripping Blu Ray discs to ISO is setting themselves up for a world of hurt down the road as it is very unlikely that any future players will support BR ISO while that capability is also being systematically removed from existing players. Those ISOs libraries will eventually have to be remuxed when one upgrades his/her equipment.

The latest settlement involved Pivos and more are likely:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/blu-ray-disc-association-secures-130000372.html

Another example is the Oppo 103 player that lost ISO support after the SOC supplier (Mediatek) removed it from the SDK at the request of the BDA. Given the history I think it's safe to assume that the BDA is exerting similar pressure on the other chipset manufacturers. The same chipsets being used in media players are also used in disc players and it's clear that the BDA is carrying a big stick given BR sales volume.

Meanwhile, MKV is a widely supported container and ubiquitous.

The bigger concern is killing AnyDVDHD, MakeMKV and other devices that can remove copy protection - then we're all dead. I'm surprised it's taking so long to clamp down on these: thank god for the complications of international law (for once).
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post #20 of 34 Old 11-05-2013, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_anderson_u View Post

The bigger concern is killing AnyDVDHD, MakeMKV and other devices that can remove copy protection - then we're all dead. I'm surprised it's taking so long to clamp down on these: thank god for the complications of international law (for once).
DVD Fab is out of Beijing. That tells you all you need to know regarding their respect for copyright laws and license agreements. Their media player is a prime example of their doing whatever they want. I has full support for BD menus without Cinavia and without a BDA license -- they just include their DVD Fab decrypter module in the player to crack any disk in the drive to play it.

My point is the BDA is powerless against DVD Fab. They will sell their software as long as there is a market for them to make money.

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post #21 of 34 Old 11-05-2013, 04:18 PM
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This is probably the most prudent advice.


I personally chose BD folder structure because it appears to be the base minimal that is supported by most players without major glitches.

What player do you use that supports bdmv folder structure?
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post #22 of 34 Old 11-05-2013, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnBlanker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mifronte View Post

This is probably the most prudent advice.


I personally chose BD folder structure because it appears to be the base minimal that is supported by most players without major glitches.

What player do you use that supports bdmv folder structure?

I personally use the Netgear NeoTV 550. For software players, I use either Windows Media Center or MPC-HC (Media Player Classic Home Cinema). At the very least, if BDMV folder structure is not supported, then you can always play the m2ts file directly like on my defunct Seagate FreeAgent HomeTheater+. Actually the Netgear NeoTV 550 is also discontinued. However, it does support BDMV folder structure, ISO (with full BD menu), and MKV.

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post #23 of 34 Old 11-05-2013, 09:13 PM
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That netgear seems to be the last of a dying breed of br iso players. I would hate to buy a discontinued product though for fear of lack of continued updates/firmware. And amazon has them for $300 which is too close to the price actually building a htpc (using some parts i have laying around). Sux
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post #24 of 34 Old 11-06-2013, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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After reading number of threads I have to ask the question.

How ofter do some of you run into issues where either a DTS-HD or Dolby True-HD track either doesn't play or you have A/V sync issues and you have to rip again using troubleshooting techniques?

I see a number of folks having one issue or another. One issue is sub-tracks but personally I don't buy a ton of movies and I never ever use subtitles. I will only be watching US movies (no imports) with whatever HD track is on the Blu-Ray.

Also, is there some sort of compiled location where there are videos for each of the main models (Mede8er/Dune)? I still need to format a flash drive and load up OpenElec to test.

Thanks in advance.
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post #25 of 34 Old 11-06-2013, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
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How ofter do some of you run into issues where either a DTS-HD or Dolby True-HD track either doesn't play or you have A/V sync issues and you have to rip again using troubleshooting techniques?
Never.

FWIW, I stream MKVs (created with MakeMKV) locally from a NAS to an Intel NUC (OpenELEC) and/or Oppo BDP-103. AVR is a Yamaha RX-A2010.
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post #26 of 34 Old 11-06-2013, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
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That netgear seems to be the last of a dying breed of br iso players. I would hate to buy a discontinued product though for fear of lack of continued updates/firmware. And amazon has them for $300 which is too close to the price actually building a htpc (using some parts i have laying around). Sux

You don't have to fear about the lack of firmware updates because Netgear stopped updating the firmware even before they discontinued the NeoTV 550. Fortunately, the local streaming of DVD and Blu-ray playback is stable enough (either ISO or BD folder). It just doesn't support any online content streaming. The current selling price of the NeoTV 550 is just crazy, but I guess the full BD menu and HD audio support is rare.

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post #27 of 34 Old 11-07-2013, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

One issue is sub-tracks

I think the issue here are the forced subs. I think.
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post #28 of 34 Old 11-07-2013, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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OK Thanks. I have a Denon 3313CI (and a 3808CI) and thus far I've never had any Blu-Ray issues. Maybe over the weekend I'll have to load up OpenELEC on a flash drive. I assume XBMC gets loaded up on it as well.

Is a NUC(HTPC) that much better than standalone device like the Mede8er or the Dune Smartplayers? I've looked for Youtube videos on both of those players and there's not too much on them. You would think the manufacturers would display their interface on their websites and have videos of their own.
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post #29 of 34 Old 11-10-2013, 06:06 AM
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A nuc is a really small pc. Not crazy powerful yet good enough for a htpc. You can use an operating system/media player like openelec, or load an os of your choice, win7, ubuntu. The downside is the price (compared with a set top box like a wdtv $80), and the additional chore of os maintenance. Bugs, updating drivers, crashes, etc. i think its the best way to go to have as much freedom as you can.

A streaming player like medi8er, wdtv, roku, etc has the added simplicity of no os maintenance. Just turn on and hit play. But your stuck with their os, their firmware, their funky taste preferences in video files, and their conformity to bd association rules. Your pretty much living by their rules. If it decides that its not going to support mkv or something, your kinda screwed.

Some people on another thread are talking about cinavia copyprotection. While i don't find it on many discs at all and is not currently a huge problem for me, some people say that it might be on every disc in the future and might mandate that every set top box streamer support it. Dvdfab has a media player ($) that you can use on your htpc that will bypass cinavia. You wont be able to do this on a wdtv, roku, boxee, etc.
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post #30 of 34 Old 11-13-2013, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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A NUC running XBMC seems like the most flexible option.


Having said that I have a couple questions:

1. My HTPC seems as if it's not powerful enough to run XBMC smoothly because it locks up fairly easily I can't play an Blu-Ray MKV at all but the same movie can be played using the VLC player. Is this simply because of the overhead it takes to run Windows 7? For the record I have an Intel I3 with 16GB of RAM.

2. What should I specifically be looking for when it comes to audio on the NUC? In my HPTV my video card supports both A/V out over HDMI which I assume I'll have to look for the same in the NUC. It will have to support the latest HD audio formats.

3. In installed OpenElec on a flash drive but when I boot from it I have the option to install (which I can't test this since I presently don't have a spare HD) or boot to test but when I choose this option it appears it either locks or is booting very slow (waited 10 minutes). Not sure if a file needs edited on the flash drive or not when booting directly from the flash drive.


Any ideas is appreciated. Making this change is definitely something that takes a bit of research!
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