Ripping DVD's/Blu-rays and surround sound problem - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 02-19-2014, 04:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey,

Im using Aiseesoft's Blu-ray ripping software, and whilst the quality and size is good, the one thing thats bugging me slightly is the audio and im wondering if anyone knows what im doing wrong, if anything.

 

Basically I have the audio conversion settings as follows:

 

Encoder - AAC

Sample Rate - 44100 hz or 48000 hz

Channels - 5.1

Audio Bitrate - 320kbps

 

The result is very clear audio, BUT, its not really making use of the front center speaker where the majority of dialogue should be coming from, and as such ALL dialogue is also coming from the front left and front right speakers, as well as music and sound affects.

 

If i play the original DVD or Blu-Ray disc directly, the audio is as expected, dialogue predominantly via front center speaker, with music and sound effects from left and right.

 

Maybe im being too picky, but im sure this should be possible......?

 

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with this?

 

Thanks,

Ant

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post #2 of 25 Old 02-19-2014, 04:30 AM
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Never heard of this software before, looks like one of the many rip off encoders that take free stuff then sell it re-branded.

You don't want to use AAC 5.1 that is a very rare format that is poorly supported.

Use MKV container and set audio track to copy original Dolby/DTS audio track, any good encoder does that, plenty of free ones like Handbrake or BDtoAVCHD and many more.
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post #3 of 25 Old 02-19-2014, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey,

Thanks for the reply.

 

The software is one of the leaders in the area (software you have to pay for anyway).

 

I've used MakeMKV and Handbrake, and whilst i admit together they provide the best result by far, Handbrake is just sooooo slow, and doesnt make use of any AMD APP Acceleration.  In my situation trying to rip a back catalog of almost 100 films is just impractical when Handbrake takes 3-4 hrs max for a DVD, and 30-36hrs for a Blu-Ray, compared to 2hrs for either when using the Aiseesoft application.  To make it worse the Aiseesoft app doesnt provide any other audio encoding options when using MKV.

 

Any other ideas on how i can create my media center with the back catalog of films i have rather than going through the painstakingly slow process of using Handbrake.

Once ive 'caught up', i'll happily use Handbrake for each new film i buy.

 

Thanks,

Ant

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post #4 of 25 Old 02-20-2014, 02:25 AM
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The reason Handbrake is slow is because it focuses on quality not speed, when go for speed you sacrifice quality. The hardware encoders like AMD's are meant for mobile devices and not great quality wise.

You can tune Handbrake for increased speed, assuming you have latest version on the video tab in the bottom left hand corner under optimize video change the x264 preset from from medium to one of the options on the left which get progressively faster (try Ultrafast).

Nightly builds of Handbrake also support Intel's hardware encoder quicksync but you need an Intel GPU for this to work, it doesn't have to be the primary GPU if as long as it's enabled and you install Intel display driver, then on video tab change encoder from x264 to Intel QSV, if it still doesn't show then in display settings force a secondary display to activate via VGA on Intel so it thinks it's connected which will activate the GPU even if nothings actually connected. This way you can use quicksync even if you have an AMD or Nvidia GPU in the PC.

As to other hardware encoder software try DVDFab, they do have pass-through audio settings and I know they supported Intel quicksync and Nvida at one point so they might do AMD as well.
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post #5 of 25 Old 02-20-2014, 03:03 AM
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I use MakeMKV for everything. If for some reason or another MakeMKV doesn't work, I use ClownBD + AnyDVD HD to create a BD folder structure. I then use MergeMKV + the MPLS file create to make a final MKV files with chapters.

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post #6 of 25 Old 02-20-2014, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Anternee View Post

The software is one of the leaders in the area (software you have to pay for anyway).
Says who?

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post #7 of 25 Old 02-20-2014, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anternee View Post

Hey,
Im using Aiseesoft's Blu-ray ripping software, and whilst the quality and size is good, the one thing thats bugging me slightly is the audio and im wondering if anyone knows what im doing wrong, if anything.

Basically I have the audio conversion settings as follows:

Encoder - AAC
Sample Rate - 44100 hz or 48000 hz
Channels - 5.1
Audio Bitrate - 320kbps

The result is very clear audio, BUT, its not really making use of the front center speaker where the majority of dialogue should be coming from, and as such ALL dialogue is also coming from the front left and front right speakers, as well as music and sound affects.

If i play the original DVD or Blu-Ray disc directly, the audio is as expected, dialogue predominantly via front center speaker, with music and sound effects from left and right.

Maybe im being too picky, but im sure this should be possible......?

Does anyone have any thoughts or experience with this?

Thanks,
Ant

I would dump that program. I 'tried' it and did not like the quality at all.

If you want to rip BD or DVD, my recommendation is to use MakeMKV and Handbrake - both of which are free. Handbrake is slow, but the quality will turn out much better. Just let it run over night and set it to automatically shutdown when it's finished. DVDFab is another that I like, but it costs money, and I didn't think the quality was quite as good as Handbrake. I found it a little easier to set up compared to Handbrake.

As for AAC 5.1, while it supports 5.1, device support isn't great. AAC was really designed to replace MP3, not intended for movie soundtracks. iThings use it because all their music uses it and it produces small file size and pretty respectable sound quality. I would use AC3 5.1 instead. AC3 isn't as efficient as AAC, but it works on everything and in 5.1.

As for the container format, I do all mine to .mkv.

.mkv is pretty dang compatible with the different video, audio and subtitle formats. I said no to DTS. Too inefficient and I don't think it sounds better than AC3 5.1 640kbps encoded from the lossless source.
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post #8 of 25 Old 02-20-2014, 11:16 PM
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Did you also say no to subtitles?

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post #9 of 25 Old 02-21-2014, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techflaws View Post

Did you also say no to subtitles?

DTS just uses too much space and I did not think the sound quality was better. Yes, I've listened to both on an AVR that has DTS decoding. I have Lethal Weapon 1 & 2 and The Fast and The Furious on DVD which both have DTS and AC3. LW has 1509 DTS and 448 DD. F&F has 754 DTS and 384 DD.

Dolby Digital 5.1 is good enough.
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post #10 of 25 Old 02-21-2014, 11:55 PM
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You can take the original PGS subs from BD and mux them unchanged into m4v wich works on standalones?

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post #11 of 25 Old 03-10-2014, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techflaws View Post

You can take the original PGS subs from BD and mux them unchanged into m4v wich works on standalones?

I don't know. I'm pretty dead set on using MKV/H.264/AC3 5.1 for everything now.
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post #12 of 25 Old 03-13-2014, 11:47 AM
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I use AnyDVD HD and BD-Rebuilder. I get great MKV's with DD, DTS and other audio. They look and sound great. You can set a target file size, or encoding quality...
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post #13 of 25 Old 03-16-2014, 07:42 PM
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I use AnyDVD HD and BD-Rebuilder. I get great MKV's with DD, DTS and other audio. They look and sound great. You can set a target file size, or encoding quality...

DVDFab for me. Costs money, but it's really user-friendly and I think it does a fine job.
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post #14 of 25 Old 03-17-2014, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by techflaws View Post

You can take the original PGS subs from BD and mux them unchanged into m4v wich works on standalones?

You can mux .SRT subtitles into a .m4v. The difficulty is ripping the PGS subtitles and converting them to .SRT files. Google "PGS to SRT" to find more info. I haven't done it in a while, so I can't provide any detailed instructions on the conversion process. Sorry.
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post #15 of 25 Old 03-18-2014, 12:08 AM
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It's not difficult to OCR PGS, it's simply a hassle that's unnecssary when you stick with MKV.

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post #16 of 25 Old 04-12-2014, 10:42 PM
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I use Aiseesoft Blu-Ray ripper as well. Would be nice if they would let you pick ac3 when building an mp4 output. My blu-ray players won't play many codecs/containers over DLNA, so I"m pretty stuck with the container and codecs as well. For some reason, Aiseesoft causes my DVD rips to get the sound out of sync with the video, pretty much every time I try to use it for DVD's, but oddly, blu-rays don't suffer the same problem. Now I just use handbrake for dvd's using AC3 for audio and Aiseesoft for blu-rays only.

I'm not sure why your sound seems to be funneled to the wrong channels as my sound seems to be fine.

Using container mp4, which Aiseesoft forces you to H.264 and AAC codecs for video/audio respectively. I set the video to be 7000kbps and the audio at 44100hz sample/320kbps/5.1 channels.

In my living room, I"m using Sony BDPS5100 blu-ray, Vizio m701da3r TV and Yamaha RX-V473 receiver. I ripped all my blu-rays/DVD's and put them on my PC, the I use Serviio as my DLNA server. It has the capability of transcoding, but that kills fast forwarding/rewinding and also crushes the computer whenever we watch something, so I picked a format/codec set that would work directly on my players.

From what I read online, AC3 is an old/dated codec to use and AAC is newer/proffered for quality.
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post #17 of 25 Old 04-13-2014, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olds97_lss View Post

I use Aiseesoft Blu-Ray ripper as well. Would be nice if they would let you pick ac3 when building an mp4 output. My blu-ray players won't play many codecs/containers over DLNA, so I"m pretty stuck with the container and codecs as well. For some reason, Aiseesoft causes my DVD rips to get the sound out of sync with the video, pretty much every time I try to use it for DVD's, but oddly, blu-rays don't suffer the same problem. Now I just use handbrake for dvd's using AC3 for audio and Aiseesoft for blu-rays only.

I'm not sure why your sound seems to be funneled to the wrong channels as my sound seems to be fine.

Using container mp4, which Aiseesoft forces you to H.264 and AAC codecs for video/audio respectively. I set the video to be 7000kbps and the audio at 44100hz sample/320kbps/5.1 channels.

In my living room, I"m using Sony BDPS5100 blu-ray, Vizio m701da3r TV and Yamaha RX-V473 receiver. I ripped all my blu-rays/DVD's and put them on my PC, the I use Serviio as my DLNA server. It has the capability of transcoding, but that kills fast forwarding/rewinding and also crushes the computer whenever we watch something, so I picked a format/codec set that would work directly on my players.

From what I read online, AC3 is an old/dated codec to use and AAC is newer/proffered for quality.

I think Plex is better than Serviio. Also Plex recognized correctly flagged Forced subs from my MKV's, which have HD sound and AC3 sound tracks. The AC3 are pretty much the same as DTS / DD.

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post #18 of 25 Old 04-13-2014, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olds97_lss View Post

I use Aiseesoft Blu-Ray ripper as well. Would be nice if they would let you pick ac3 when building an mp4 output. My blu-ray players won't play many codecs/containers over DLNA, so I"m pretty stuck with the container and codecs as well. For some reason, Aiseesoft causes my DVD rips to get the sound out of sync with the video, pretty much every time I try to use it for DVD's, but oddly, blu-rays don't suffer the same problem. Now I just use handbrake for dvd's using AC3 for audio and Aiseesoft for blu-rays only.

I'm not sure why your sound seems to be funneled to the wrong channels as my sound seems to be fine.

Using container mp4, which Aiseesoft forces you to H.264 and AAC codecs for video/audio respectively. I set the video to be 7000kbps and the audio at 44100hz sample/320kbps/5.1 channels.

In my living room, I"m using Sony BDPS5100 blu-ray, Vizio m701da3r TV and Yamaha RX-V473 receiver. I ripped all my blu-rays/DVD's and put them on my PC, the I use Serviio as my DLNA server. It has the capability of transcoding, but that kills fast forwarding/rewinding and also crushes the computer whenever we watch something, so I picked a format/codec set that would work directly on my players.

From what I read online, AC3 is an old/dated codec to use and AAC is newer/proffered for quality.

I've found that .MP4 (or .M4V) correctly encoded with 2 channel AAC (160k bit/sec max) as the first audio track, AC3 5.1 (640k bit/sec max) as the second audio track and H.264 for video work on most current devices including streaming over DNLA. My Sony BR will play these files with the AC3 surround sound perfectly over DNLA. Although AC3 is old, it is the universal format for surround sound and most players handle it perfectly. For subtitles, .SRT subtitles can be muxed in as well or you can burn in the Bluray .PGS forced subtitles for movies like Avatar. Doing text recognition on some of the Bluray subtitle fonts (like Avatar) can be tricky.

I do use Handbrake for my encodes, but it takes < 30 Minutes for a DVD and about 2 and a half hours for a Bluray on a Core i7. Time isn't a problem for me as I encode the discs as I buy them. I did re-encode all my DVDs at one point, but I cued them up in Handbrake and let it run.
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post #19 of 25 Old 04-13-2014, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimA View Post

I've found that .MP4 (or .M4V) correctly encoded with 2 channel AAC (160k bit/sec max) as the first audio track, AC3 5.1 (640k bit/sec max) as the second audio track and H.264 for video work on most current devices including streaming over DNLA. My Sony BR will play these files with the AC3 surround sound perfectly over DNLA. Although AC3 is old, it is the universal format for surround sound and most players handle it perfectly. For subtitles, .SRT subtitles can be muxed in as well or you can burn in the Bluray .PGS forced subtitles for movies like Avatar. Doing text recognition on some of the Bluray subtitle fonts (like Avatar) can be tricky.

I do use Handbrake for my encodes, but it takes < 30 Minutes for a DVD and about 2 and a half hours for a Bluray on a Core i7. Time isn't a problem for me as I encode the discs as I buy them. I did re-encode all my DVDs at one point, but I cued them up in Handbrake and let it run.

Tim,

I am building a new server strictly to use Plex and stream out of network for my family. I am going to start re-encoding all of them as M4V / MP4 files with Stereo and possibly AC3 sound tracks. I was wondering what do you do with movies that have Forced Subtitles? Do you include an SRT file within the folder or is there a way to remux the file to the M4V/MP4?

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post #20 of 25 Old 04-13-2014, 01:55 PM
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I think Plex is better than Serviio. Also Plex recognized correctly flagged Forced subs from my MKV's, which have HD sound and AC3 sound tracks. The AC3 are pretty much the same as DTS / DD.

Which plex player does that? I'm curios if there is a plex client that does mpeg2/avc/vc1, hd audio bitstream, and PGS forced subs. Maybe only the pc home theater client I'm thinking.
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post #21 of 25 Old 04-13-2014, 01:56 PM
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Tim,

I am building a new server strictly to use Plex and stream out of network for my family. I am going to start re-encoding all of them as M4V / MP4 files with Stereo and possibly AC3 sound tracks. I was wondering what do you do with movies that have Forced Subtitles? Do you include an SRT file within the folder or is there a way to remux the file to the M4V/MP4?

If you are reencoding, just burn the forced subs track into the encoded image. Handbrake will do this with PGS subs. Save yourself a world of hurt. smile.gif
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post #22 of 25 Old 04-13-2014, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

Tim,

I am building a new server strictly to use Plex and stream out of network for my family. I am going to start re-encoding all of them as M4V / MP4 files with Stereo and possibly AC3 sound tracks. I was wondering what do you do with movies that have Forced Subtitles? Do you include an SRT file within the folder or is there a way to remux the file to the M4V/MP4?

I mux the SRT files into the M4V/MP4 with Subler (unfortunately Mac OS only). For me, Subler has a funky workflow but it's quick and easy to use once you figure it out. It's also great for tagging M4V/MP4 files (cover art, movie info, etc). Unfortunately I haven't been able to get forced subtitles to display automatically with my devices (WDTV, Apple TV, iOS devices, etc), but I just found this on the Plex forums:

https://forums.plex.tv/index.php/topic/93262-adding-forced-subtitles/

"MY SOLUTION - Adding forced subtitles with Subler

Subler - https://code.google.com/p/subler/
Open your file with Subler (Either drag to the dock icon or File > Open in top menu)
Add your subtitle track (Click the + and Select file or File > Import > File in top menu)
(Stop here to embed the subtitle track in file without forcing it on)
To Force, Highlight the subtitle track in the list
Change "Forced:" to "Forced: Some Samples Are Forced"
Change "Forced Track:" to "Your subtitle track name"
Save file (The offset should automatically be added)
You now have Forced Subtitles that play in Quicktime

EDIT - Looks like I only needed to Select the Subtitle Track in PMS on the episode page to enable for subtitles everywhere in Plex.
The method above only works for quicktime and isn't picked up by plex even with the track selected in PMS.
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post #23 of 25 Old 04-13-2014, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by olds97_lss View Post

From what I read online, AC3 is an old/dated codec to use and AAC is newer/proffered for quality.
That's not why aac is used over ac3. The reason is that (legally speaking) to encode ac3 you need to pay the licensing fee. AC3 is owned by Dolby and speaking from a legal standpoint , it's not free. Opensource products like Handbrake and makemkv are (unofficially) allowed to play with ac3 because these products are not being sold for money. However for a product like Aiseesoft which is being sold for profit, they would run the risk of being sued by Dolby if they included Ac3 works without a license. And if it was licensed you can be sure the price tag would take a nasty jump because they would have no choice but to pass that fee onto you, and my guess is that you wouldn't but it at the price they would have to sell it for.

Long story short... AAC is used because you don't require any stiff license fee for its use. That's pretty much the only good thing about it.
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post #24 of 25 Old 04-13-2014, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimA View Post

Unfortunately I haven't been able to get forced subtitles to display automatically with my devices (WDTV, Apple TV, iOS devices, etc)
The WDTV still does not read MKV flags so as a workaround you can mux the forced track as the first one and set you player to display subs.

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post #25 of 25 Old 04-14-2014, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaremyP View Post

If you are reencoding, just burn the forced subs track into the encoded image. Handbrake will do this with PGS subs. Save yourself a world of hurt. smile.gif

Thanks for the recommendation. I will do that when I start re-encoding.

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