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post #271 of 625 Old 04-06-2014, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

UV digital copies.....

That's what we're going to come back to it seems. They'll be two choices when we sit down to watch a movie in our home theaters.

1. I want to hear high def audio and see high def video. Where's the disk?
2. I want convenience. Let go of the high def audio and use the "approved" digital copy off my media storage device played through my media server OR same type of content streamed via Netflix, etc., but it will be the same entertainment experience.


For me the reason I have a home theater and invested in high def is as much about the audio as the video. So for me my priorities are changing away from all that is involved with having a media server and is going back to disk based playback.

I guess it is good in one regard. I'm not going to spend money on the new wave of media servers.

Poorly timed for folks who make these media servers though. Seems like the technology was getting mature and becoming solidly placed in our home theaters. XMBC getting mature, etc.

Going to hurt those industries.

Maybe I used the term Media Server in the wrong way......What I mean't was my server is my NAS device...the only new purchase I anticipate will be a new media PLAYER.......everything else should not need to be replaced.....Hi-Def audio and video are part of the UV spec......I have a scope setup and enjoy playing my downloaded VUDU HDX files, in addition to those on my NAS......Not Blu-ray, but to my eyes very close......
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post #272 of 625 Old 04-06-2014, 08:59 AM
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You are talking hardware. At some point you have to think about source material. IF that source material requires some kind of decryption, decryption that is in control of the media companies, somewhere in your hardware chain has to be some approved hardware that will decrypt the source. If you put that source on a NAS and that source is "approved" the need to decrypt it is still in place.

The bulk of what many of us have currently on our NAS's or out there in some "cloud" has been decrypted at some point.

It would appear even if we will be able to copy bluray material, the encryption will stay in the archive.

Which brings you back to needing something in your hardware chain that has the ability to decrypt.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #273 of 625 Old 04-06-2014, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

You are talking hardware. At some point you have to think about source material. IF that source material requires some kind of decryption, decryption that is in control of the media companies, somewhere in your hardware chain has to be some approved hardware that will decrypt the source. If you put that source on a NAS and that source is "approved" the need to decrypt it is still in place.

The bulk of what many of us have currently on our NAS's or out there is some "cloud" has been decrypted at some point.

It would appear even if we will be able to copy bluray material, the encryption will stay in the archive.

Which brings you back to needing something in your hardware chain that has the ability to decrypt.


Absolutely, did you see my earlier post about DRM being imbedded into the player and the file.......the source material will be decrypted in the player, no matter where the file is stored.....
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post #274 of 625 Old 04-06-2014, 09:04 AM
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Which means buying new media players-playback devices that are "approved" and have the decryption ability like our bluray players already do. Might as well just watch the disk.

And if media archiving software simply copies the disk intact again back to might as well watch the disk.

OR

Stream it over Netflix, Vudu, etc.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #275 of 625 Old 04-06-2014, 09:07 AM
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Amazon certainly timed its entrance into the Apple TV competition market well....

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #276 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 09:14 AM
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Lets hope that VLC isn't forced to include it.
I'm asking you the same question as donethetech, maybe you will answer: forced by whom?

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post #277 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 09:20 AM
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I read the new version of PowerDVD is to include Cinavia. Lets hope that VLC isn't forced to include it.

I thought that both PDVD and TMT already had Cinavia implemented since 2012...
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post #278 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 09:26 AM
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I thought that both PDVD and TMT already had Cinavia implemented since 2012...

Yeah, pretty sure they both have implemented already

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post #279 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 09:34 AM
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I thought that both PDVD and TMT already had Cinavia implemented since 2012...
Power DVD 12.1905c (and higher) and 13
WinDVD 11.5 and up
Nero BluRay player
TMT 5.172 (and up) and 6

all have Cinavia

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post #280 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 10:01 AM
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What is Cinavia?
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post #281 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 10:03 AM
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What is Cinavia?
Here's a good a place as any for an explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia

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post #282 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Power DVD 12.1905c (and higher) and 13
WinDVD 11.5 and up
Nero BluRay player
TMT 5.172 (and up) and 6

all have Cinavia

I learn something every day.
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post #283 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 11:13 AM
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Forced by the movie industry.
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post #284 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 11:28 AM
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I know, same old same old, but you have to keep in focus what you're talking about in terms of source. The impact of not being able to archive original source material and remove encryption so as to be able to play the archived file on a media player has changed the game.

And yes I know none of the previously available decrypter software packages defeated Cinavia directly. What they did however was create a file so we could play back that file on a media player on which Cinavia did not matter. The playback device was not impacted by it one way or the other. Cinavia while hanging around did not impact the playback device.

That's all changed........

You can't create the decrypted source file to attempt to playback.

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post #285 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 01:15 PM
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@Gary
Busted, my a$$.
Swing and a miss. I'm none of those guys which I tought I'd made pretty clear some posts above. I pay for my media and time-shift/format-shift for my convenience. If I can't do that, I just go without. Revolutionary concept, I know.

Funny to see though, you couldn't counter any of my points and went for the cheap shot wink.gif

I agree and disagree with you. I disagree in that I think a lot of people copy discs, torrent files, etc. And I do believe the number is significant. However, I agree that these people fall primarily in the three classes of people you described and DRM is not accomplishing anything.

Ultimately, I think DRM will go away just like it has with music.

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These are entertainment disks -- disposable luxury items. They are already well within their rights to assume a business model that does exactly what you have proposed. If they were to impose such a restrictive business model for their product they might find their consumer base will be outraged and will boycott their product. On the other hand they may find their consumer base will bitch and moan but still hand over their cash because they still want the product and will pay the sellers price of cash + terms of use.

Why do you think there are so many campaigns promoting smart consumerism? Because consumers are inherently dumb!!
Bidders on ebay -- need I say more?



I have a personal pet peeve against these selective agreements in that I believe in most instances deceptive advertising is used to convince people to buy the entertainment only to realize the restrictions after they open it (and cannot return it).

I think one of the problems is that nobody takes the terms of use seriously. Everyone has become accustomed to ignoring them and doing whatever they have to use the product.
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post #286 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 01:19 PM
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I still believe full HD streaming, including audio, is on the way (eventually). It's all going to be streaming making the purchase of discs largely irrelevant. The biggest problem that will be faced by most people is remembering to download the movies and music they want before getting on the plane.

The only problem I forsee is that there may be a shift from TV viewing to personal IPad type viewing. If most media viewing occurs on smaller screens with headphones then streaming high quality video and audio will not have a high demand.
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post #287 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 01:40 PM
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I still believe full HD streaming, including audio, is on the way (eventually). It's all going to be streaming making the purchase of discs largely irrelevant.
A shift to streaming will only be endorsed by the providers if the new model results in the consumer paying more and not less. Each movie is a unique work of art. It has no competition so the providers have no one to compete with. They will sell their one-of-a-kind work they way they want and not the way the consumer wants.

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post #288 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

The impact of not being able to archive original source material and remove encryption so as to be able to play the archived file on a media player has changed the game.
You make it sound as if the game is over -- it is not. You ignore the availability of AnyDVD or the decrypter that comes with MakeMKV. DVD Fab 9 cannot be paid for from the US, but those who already have licenses are receiving continued support and although you can't pay for a DVD Fab 9 license, you can still download it and use the free HD Decrypter which seems to be able to continue to decrypt all the new disks.

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post #289 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 04:34 PM
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I still believe full HD streaming, including audio, is on the way (eventually). It's all going to be streaming making the purchase of discs largely irrelevant. The biggest problem that will be faced by most people is remembering to download the movies and music they want before getting on the plane.



Never going to happen.

If they require a high speed internet connection to watch a movie, that eliminates a very large percentage of their money stream.
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post #290 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 05:12 PM
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"game over"

Probably not but in its last laps. Next step will be what we've already seen from the recording industry. Anyone who downloads the software in a country where the legal system has jurisdiction IP address will be gone after.

Once the media companies hit a few end users, game over.....

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #291 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 06:21 PM
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Never going to happen.

If they require a high speed internet connection to watch a movie, that eliminates a very large percentage of their money stream.

Isn't it already happening? Digital copies, netflix, Amazon, and very soon Apple?
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post #292 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 09:19 PM
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Isn't it already happening? Digital copies, netflix, Amazon, and very soon Apple?

Those certainly don't require a fast internet connection. The connection I had sixteen years ago, back in 1998,( 5mbps down and 1 mbps up) would have been enough to handle many of the streams available now.

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post #293 of 625 Old 04-07-2014, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Forced by the movie industry.
How exactly? How will you force any media player manufacturer to support Ultraviolet? Or PC manufacturers for that matter.
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That's all changed........

You can't create the decrypted source file to attempt to playback.
It hasn't changed and it won't. There will always be ways to obtain decryption software on the Internet (or sneakernet) or copies made from "recording" content as is already being done with VOD releases. That's what makes the whole issue so pointless.

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post #294 of 625 Old 04-08-2014, 06:18 AM
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Question: On Youtube some of the movies require you to pay to watch them.
Is this a one time rental fee?
Or do you actually own the video and can watch it anytime you want?
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post #295 of 625 Old 04-08-2014, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

"game over"

Probably not but in its last laps. Next step will be what we've already seen from the recording industry. Anyone who downloads the software in a country where the legal system has jurisdiction IP address will be gone after.

Once the media companies hit a few end users, game over.....

How would media companies hit the end users in this case, they would have to prove the person was actually using the software to break the encryption?

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post #296 of 625 Old 04-08-2014, 07:21 AM
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How?

Same way they are now. IP address of where the information/program has been downloaded to.

Just ask those grandparents who had to deal with the recording industry because their grand kids d/l a bunch of songs......

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post #297 of 625 Old 04-08-2014, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

How?

Same way they are now. IP address of where the information/program has been downloaded to.

Just ask those grandparents who had to deal with the recording industry because their grand kids d/l a bunch of songs......

My point being the record industry went with the approach that the user a) downloaded illegal/unauthorized content and/or b) shared those files leading to revenue loss. This would seem to be a different approach versus just downloading a program

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post #298 of 625 Old 04-08-2014, 09:54 AM
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Just ask those grandparents who had to deal with the recording industry because their grand kids d/l a bunch of songs......
Yeah, and look how that stopped music piracy.

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post #299 of 625 Old 04-08-2014, 10:15 AM
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Didn't express an opinion regarding effectiveness. Just how singling out those who download the software can be done and done easily.

The case was made the ONLY reason this software exist is to pirate. It is not a stretch to think the next step would be the only reason someone would download the software is to pirate. Let's go after those who download it.

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post #300 of 625 Old 04-08-2014, 10:53 AM
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Didn't express an opinion regarding effectiveness. Just how singling out those who download the software can be done and done easily.

The case was made the ONLY reason this software exist is to pirate. It is not a stretch to think the next step would be the only reason someone would download the software is to pirate. Let's go after those who download it.

This may be different. Those grandparents had a machine that received actual copyrighted material.

This is the case of people who downloaded an application which can be used to decrypt material, but it is still just a tool - it does not contain copyrighted material. The case can be made for the reason for the software to exist, but it doesn't prove that anything was done with it.

I own a sword that hangs on my wall. The only reason that a sword exists is to kill people. That doesn't mean that by owning one, I am guaranteed to kill someone and should therefore be arrested before anything happens. Owning one is not illegal. It may be controlled (I can't carry it in public), but it is not outlawed.
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