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Old 04-08-2014, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

The only reason that a sword exists is to kill people.
Not correct either historically or, hopefully, in your case.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by StratmanX View Post

Not correct either historically or, hopefully, in your case.

I'd beg to differ historically, but I agree it's not in my case. That's what they were designed to do.

My point is that ownership of a tool doesn't mean that what that was meant to do is being done. A crime is an act, not the possibility of an act.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:33 PM
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If the decryption algorithm in DVDFab and similar applications only exist to defeat the copyright holder's lawful use of DRM then the decryption algorithm violates US law regardless of intent the user. If this is factually incorrect then please explain and correct.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:36 PM
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Yes but the well funded media industry doesn't care about the sword on your wall.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

I'd beg to differ historically, but I agree it's not in my case. That's what they were designed to do.
Hunting for food, protection against humans and animals, harvesting of agriculture, clearing of plant life.
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My point is that ownership of a tool doesn't mean that what that was meant to do is being done. A crime is an act, not the possibility of an act.
Using lock picks as an example, ownership of the tools may be criminal just by their ownership in certain states, for example Ohio, requiring the individual to refute the charge based merely on a "possibility" of a potential crime and not being caught red handed using the tools.
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:21 PM
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Yes but the well funded media industry doesn't care about the sword on your wall.

True. They could keep you in court forever. It's the chilling effect of punitive law by corporations.
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Old 04-08-2014, 02:15 PM
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On the odd chance that someone is looking for something on-topic in this thread, DVDFab issued an update today for dealing with some new protections. Current version is 9.1.3.8
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Old 04-08-2014, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

My point is that ownership of a tool doesn't mean that what that was meant to do is being done. A crime is an act, not the possibility of an act.
I think it is safe to say that a crime is anything that the law defines as a crime. It is a criminal offense to possess child pornography and a lot of federal resources are spend to track down and prosecute people who download it even though the source of the material is generally from outside the US. AFAIK, it is not yet a criminal offense to simply possess decryption software however it is always possible for laws to be written in the future that make it so.

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Old 04-08-2014, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

On the odd chance that someone is looking for something on-topic in this thread, DVDFab issued an update today for dealing with some new protections. Current version is 9.1.3.8
Thanks, I've been waiting for a post 9.1.3.6 release to test. 9.1.3.6 was the last release before all the troubles started.

DVD Fab promises that current v9 license holders will be supported with updates that continue to crack new protections -- the US can block US payment channels but they have not blocked the ability to download stuff from a chinese web site. What I am curious about is whether or not the free HD Decrypter will be disabled in any post 9.1.3.6 versions. If they continue to give away the free HD Decrypter then they are essentially giving the finger to the MPAA. I've been using the free HD Decrypter on a separate PC from my main desktop which holds the licensed version. I have yet to have a problem ripping any of the newest titles that come out with the free HD Decrypter -- the latest being Catching Fire, Enders Game, Thor and Gravity.

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Old 04-08-2014, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

On the odd chance that someone is looking for something on-topic in this thread, DVDFab issued an update today for dealing with some new protections. Current version is 9.1.3.8

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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I think it is safe to say that a crime is anything that the law defines as a crime. It is a criminal offense to possess child pornography and a lot of federal resources are spend to track down and prosecute people who download it even though the source of the material is generally from outside the US. AFAIK, it is not yet a criminal offense to simply possess decryption software however it is always possible for laws to be written in the future that make it so.

Agreed - got carried away, back to the original.
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Old 04-08-2014, 03:15 PM
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I think eventually either the law will be changed to allow a personal copy, or the movie industry will offer a digital copy.

They are already moving in that direction by offering one with the purchase of some Blu-Ray DVD's, yesterday at Wally-world I saw a regular-DVD copy of Mary Poppins also offer a digital download. Once the movie industry allows that to go across all movies that people own, this discussion becomes moot.

Only thing they need to decide is the ways and means to make that happen.

If they continue to stay in the dark ages companies will continue to crack their codes to allow people to make backup copies.
What the movie industry needs to realize that by not offering a digital copy on all their movies they are the ones putting money in the pockets of these companies.
Which then allows them to lose profits based upon the people who rent and rip.
If a digital copy was already available do you think DVD Fab or the like would exist?

Maybe yes, but no where near as popular or supported.

The restrictions the industry puts on it works is the same restrictions that puts money into the pockets of people who circumvent it.

Vicious cycle that they created.

Which is why eventually I hope that sanity will prevail and digital copies endorsed and provided be the movie industry will be the norm.
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Old 04-08-2014, 04:24 PM
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"digital copy"

Many already do.

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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Old 04-08-2014, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MishMouse View Post

They are already moving in that direction by offering one with the purchase of some Blu-Ray DVD's, yesterday at Wally-world I saw a regular-DVD copy of Mary Poppins also offer a digital download. Once the movie industry allows that to go across all movies that people own, this discussion becomes moot.
You miss the point. People make a DRM-free ripped copy so they can play the media in the way that they choose. What good is an industry-supplied digital copy that again restricts your usage. Will you be happy with their digital copy if you have to download and install their player on your PC to play it? Oh wait, we don't make a version of the player for Linux -- so sorry, use what we tell you. Oh wait, you have to be connected to the Internet so we can verify you are the proper user of that download -- and by the way you can only register our player on 3 devices -- what? big family? lots of kids? so sorry, you'll just have to buy another copy.

There should never be any thought that someday the studios will capitulate and release their content without DRM. Rather, they will probably take the "failures" learned with BluRay and make the DRM restrictions on 4K even more Draconian so "they don't make the same mistakes again".

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Old 04-08-2014, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

On the odd chance that someone is looking for something on-topic in this thread, DVDFab issued an update today for dealing with some new protections. Current version is 9.1.3.8

I was using the free HD Decrypter from 9.1.3.3, and decided to let it update to 9.1.3.8. After that it wouldn't open an encrypted disk (message was something like "You have to buy or renew DVDFab Blu-ray Copy to open this disk").

I uninstalled the new version, re-installed 9.1.3.3, and it's working again (even though the trial period has expired). So unless that was a freak incident, it looks like there will no longer be a free version? I don't really mind paying if I have to (I had a license for DVDFab 8 that expired recently) but they're not really making it clear what the current situation is.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

I was using the free HD Decrypter from 9.1.3.3, and decided to let it update to 9.1.3.8. After that it wouldn't open an encrypted disk (message was something like "You have to buy or renew DVDFab Blu-ray Copy to open this disk").

So unless that was a freak incident, it looks like there will no longer be a free version?
That is what I was wondering about. There were two versions of 9.1.3.6 released. The first one was 3/20/14 which I downloaded and have been using without issue. They released a new version the next day (3/21/14) after the troubles and I have wondered if they stripped the free HD Decrypter, so I was waiting to test the next update. Apparently you have and they did.

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Old 04-08-2014, 10:54 PM
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Just how singling out those who download the software can be done and done easily.
Which is still wrong cause those people could only be singled out due to the fact that also uploaded copyrighted material themselves (torrenting). They don't when downloading softtware from a Chinese website. Of course I wouldn't put it past the US government to snoop on people's downloads from websites but they will have a hard time outlawing VPNs.

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"digital copy"

Many already do.
All of which suck because of DRM and the inferior quality (resolution, bitrate, number of streams) compared to the original BD.

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Old 04-09-2014, 06:51 AM
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The power behind the media industry enforcing things which will kill software like DVDFab does not need to catch every single person who down loads the software. They just need to make examples out of a few. The news about those few getting caught will be enough deterrent to effectively kill off these kinds of software packages.

The deterrent does not require the media industry catch every Tom, Dick and Harry that is using anonymous IP or even foreign country IP's. The effectiveness of the deterrent will be determined by the size of the punishment handed out to just a few folks that do get caught.

Just like the music industry did.

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Old 04-09-2014, 06:56 AM
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"digital copy"

Many already do.

But those UV Digital copies are also only good for a few years. They expire after that.

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Old 04-09-2014, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

The power behind the media industry enforcing things which will kill software like DVDFab does not need to catch every single person who down loads the software. They just need to make examples out of a few. The news about those few getting caught will be enough deterrent to effectively kill off these kinds of software packages.

The deterrent does not require the media industry catch every Tom, Dick and Harry that is using anonymous IP or even foreign country IP's. The effectiveness of the deterrent will be determined by the size of the punishment handed out to just a few folks that do get caught.

Just like the music industry did.

I still fail to see the exact comparison to the music industry in terms of the way/size punishment is handled. Punishment by the music industry was based on the user illegally obtaining copyright material, with the kicker being they were torrenting (so you can say x# of sales were lost). This does not apply to DVDfab, etc... if you are just simply talking about downloading software

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Old 04-09-2014, 07:17 AM
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"Digital copies"

And they are lower quality than the archives I can make from the original source. Also folks like Flixster are proprietary and you have to use their app.

"exact"

Didn't say it was exactly the same. I said it would be similar to. Which it will be.

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Old 04-09-2014, 07:21 AM
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"exact"

Didn't say it was exactly the same. I said it would be similar to. Which it will be.

I know it won't have to be exact, but I fail to see how the movie industry could try to impose a significant judgment on a user similar to how the music industry did (since the music industry could show theft and distribution). Not saying the movie industry won't come up with some gimmick...

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Old 04-09-2014, 09:03 AM
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Until (unless) a law is enacted that makes simple possession of the specific software a crime, this discussion has no real relevance.

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Old 04-09-2014, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

Just like the music industry did.
And failed. Or has the Thomas-Rasset verdict actually worked as a deterrent stopping music piracy (and they just forgot to tell everyone about it)?

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with the kicker being they were torrenting (so you can say x# of sales were lost).
No, you can't. Your #x is just a guess.

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I said it would be similar to. Which it will be.
You're basing this on what? Past experience like the fact that the industry deliberately lowered the quality of DVDs so they could sell more BDs?

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Old 04-09-2014, 09:14 AM
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No, you can't. Your #x is just a guess.

I know its a guess, I was saying that the music industry would come up with some ridiculous figure for how many times a files was shared and use that as part of their basis of the fine

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Old 04-09-2014, 09:47 AM
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Sorry but music ripping and pirating has gone way down. It and movie pirating will never go away. The issue is not will it be eliminated in total. The issues is will the media industry's efforts be effective enough to reduce pirating so as to make software like DVDFab unprofitable.

And while I don't wish to be correct I am of the opinion they will. Hit a few end users and it will scare enough end users away from the software to not risk being harassed by the media industry's lawyers.

Make it difficult to down load and you start to reduce the exposure of this kind of software.

ALL adding up to "We can't make enough money to keep creating, maintaining and updating this software."

At that moment, this kind of software is dead.

There now? Nope.

Sucks? Yep.

Going to happen anyway? Yep.

For now I'm getting busy archiving the few new releases I actually want to purchase. And I'm not buying a new media player. I'll hang out with my AIOS for awhile longer.

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Old 04-09-2014, 11:31 AM
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So, I was poking around today. dvdfab.cn is up and listing all the DVD Fab products for sale. The problem comes when you try to pay for anything -- it rejects you if you are in a US territory. But outside the areas of US interference they are in business as usual. They are a world-wide business so one wonders what fraction the US market represented.

The new blufab.cn site is interesting. They currently can't process orders until they get their new china payment processing unit on line. The BluRay Copy and ripper modules are missing from the product list but curiously the DVD Copy module is there for sale. I also see that the PassKey product is for sale which also doesn't make sense. I think that is a mistake because PassKey is not described in the rest of the site and is clearly a target. The blufab.cn site is still under construction so all this will probably change. Probably no rush on their part because without the decryption capability, who would be foolish enough to buy DVD Fab. I think blufab.cn is mostly for appearances.

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Old 04-09-2014, 01:06 PM
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A statement from DVDFab clarifying all this would be nice. But since I'm in Canada it seems I'm not being blocked from paying, although I'm not paying for anything right now given the current confusion.

But I don't understand the reason for removing the free decrypter.
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Old 04-09-2014, 01:07 PM
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"Until (unless) a law is enacted that makes simple possession of the specific software a crime, this discussion has no real relevance."

Really?

Doesn't the law now technically give owners the freedom to make an archive copy for personal use?

So if that law......

Oh never mind.

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Old 04-09-2014, 01:08 PM
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" I'm not paying for anything right now given the current confusion."

You and lots of other folks. And when the group of people who are not paying continues to grow, grows to the point DVDFab, ANYDVD, etc., can not afford to stay in business, Hollywood wins. Laws or no laws.

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Old 04-09-2014, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

A statement from DVDFab clarifying all this would be nice. But since I'm in Canada it seems I'm not being blocked from paying, although I'm not paying for anything right now given the current confusion.

The DVD Fab forums are notable for their lack of information on the subject. The so-called volunteer moderators are even more abusive than usual and peremptorily shut down threads that try to elicit information and ban users who persist and dare to call out the mods on their abuse. As a result, nobody is asking and nobody is telling.
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But I don't understand the reason for removing the free decrypter.
It's disappointing but predictable. They can't sell a product in the US with a decrypter module in it. It may be a fine line they have to walk to keep supporting their current licensees -- let's see how long that lasts. I'm planning on checking out the 9.1.3.8 version myself next time I buy a new release BD (probably not until Hobbit II). I can install it in its own directory as a new install and keep the 9.1.3.6 version running as it is now.

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