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post #511 of 575 Old 06-22-2014, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post
After a over night update, DVDFab and AnyDVD, will no longer rip a Blu-Ray disk. At least on my machine. I was told by customer support that Blu-Ray ripping was removed from US consumers. And that ticks me off. I have over $180 invested between the two, and can now only rip DVD's. Unless you missed the news, there has been a free DVD ripper around for years. Another annoying thing is that now when i play a Blu-Ray disk movie on my HTPC, i am forced to watch the previews, no more right to the movie.
What update? A Windows update or a AnyDVD update? If this is true I would expect to see a ton of angry posts on the Slysoft forums, but I don't.
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post #512 of 575 Old 06-22-2014, 01:01 PM
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post #513 of 575 Old 06-22-2014, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post
I would seriously pay attention to what you can and cannot do.
You should seriouly pay attention to all the BS numbers the industry keeps releasing (and to Hollywood accounting) and square their claims of a doomed business with the box office records they rake in year after year.

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post #514 of 575 Old 06-23-2014, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by StratmanX View Post
You are full of more than just strawman arguments again.



And yet the simplest of language added to the Exceptions portion of the DMCA - ie including in home, non-commercial, private use - was not done. Nor is there an explicit exception in Fair Use or copyright. But there are specific, detailed exceptions in these documents. Nor has the librarian of Congress offered home use as exception or legal. So simple to do yet never done. A murky and incomplete tease is all you have in the DMCA. In fact, DMCA refers us back to Fair Use in considering circumventing DRM:



"Appropriate circumstances" that "may be" fair use. What are these? Refer back to Fair Use, which does not provide exception for home use of the variety we are discussing.

Please give direct quotes from Fair Use which expressly allows one to circumvent DRM in the home for private, non-commercial, non-public use. If you cannot provide proof then your argument is nothing more than wishful thinking.

Yet, the more important issue, IMO, is why our politicians did not add unambiguous and simple language to the DMCA concerning this issue in the first place. It is not as if home use was an unknown at the time.


Quote me the section of the DMCA that prevents you from doing so!

Just so there is no doubt about the DMCA, here is the source that you are allowed to quote:

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap12.html#1201
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post #515 of 575 Old 06-23-2014, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post
After a over night update, DVDFab and AnyDVD, will no longer rip a Blu-Ray disk. At least on my machine. I was told by customer support that Blu-Ray ripping was removed from US consumers.
Build 9.1.5.0US and beyond of DVD Fab no longer have BD decryption. This is for the US versions only which you will get if you go to the DVD Fab website from a US IP address. Unfortunately you will have to scroll way up in this thread past all the BS to before where all the amateur lawyers hi-jacked it to find my post where I list the direct IP address for downloading the EU versions that have BD decryption. The latest 9.1.5.3 EU build is available there -- I just downloaded it to verify.
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post #516 of 575 Old 06-23-2014, 11:22 AM
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I just downloaded it to verify.
Which means instead of the editorial you could have posted it really easily.
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post #517 of 575 Old 06-26-2014, 05:56 PM
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****ing American government don't realize shutting down DvD fab isn't going to help there cause. I thought if you buy a dvd movie by law your able to make a copy, the government has to understand they well never control peer to peer it's down right impossible so shutting down dvd fab only means something else will take it's place, so what is the government going to do about the other 20 dvd decrypter software that being offered...makes no sense
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post #518 of 575 Old 06-26-2014, 06:26 PM
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The movie industry should just take there lumps and move on..there spending millions to shut down dvd fab so what are there plans for the other 20 decrypters that are on the market, to reach the supreme courts it must take at least a year to reach the courtroom so do the math over all it's a shame but there just wasting there time and making the scumbag lawyers rich..
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post #519 of 575 Old 06-27-2014, 01:24 PM
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Their position isn't that difficult to understand - why shouldn't they try stop as many people who haven't bought a movie from watching it as they can? However, the legitimate buyers of blu-ray disks that want to shift them to a digital version that they can access from their NAS on their TV or tablet, etc get dragged into it as well.

One way to make everyone happy would be to speed up the implementation of Ultraviolet. If I could get a digital version of all the discs I own through a disc-to-digital program I would find that far more palatable than ripping my own to a NAS for playback on a TV. Widespread implementation of Ultraviolet would mean you could quickly convert your collection to an easily accessible digital format that many devices can access (TV, tablets, game systems, etc.). Sure it might be a slight downgrade from blu-ray quality but you could always pull out your original disc for those times when nothing but top quality will do. I would take this scenario over ripping and maintaining a NAS any day - it's cheaper, quicker, and your library is more accessible (e.g. remotely).
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post #520 of 575 Old 06-27-2014, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by EVT View Post
Their position isn't that difficult to understand - why shouldn't they try stop as many people who haven't bought a movie from watching it as they can? However, the legitimate buyers of blu-ray disks that want to shift them to a digital version that they can access from their NAS on their TV or tablet, etc get dragged into it as well.

One way to make everyone happy would be to speed up the implementation of Ultraviolet. If I could get a digital version of all the discs I own through a disc-to-digital program I would find that far more palatable than ripping my own to a NAS for playback on a TV. Widespread implementation of Ultraviolet would mean you could quickly convert your collection to an easily accessible digital format that many devices can access (TV, tablets, game systems, etc.). Sure it might be a slight downgrade from blu-ray quality but you could always pull out your original disc for those times when nothing but top quality will do. I would take this scenario over ripping and maintaining a NAS any day - it's cheaper, quicker, and your library is more accessible (e.g. remotely).
For me if I can't get the exact quality of the disc I purchased than what is the point. The whole point for me of ripping all my discs is being able to access my entire media at the touch of a button without having to fumble around with discs. I see no benefit to Ultraviolet if it means to continue with this process I have to watch a degraded copy (or go back to using the physical disc which defeats the purpose in the first place)

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post #521 of 575 Old 06-27-2014, 07:43 PM
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Sorry to interrupt this absolutely adorable discussion of the definition of 'is' vs 'was' but here's some news about DVDFab: http://www.myce.com/news/dvdfab-file...Speed=noscript
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post #522 of 575 Old 06-27-2014, 07:44 PM
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post #523 of 575 Old 06-27-2014, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post
When I downloaded Wookao and looked at it, it was nothing more than PassKey Lite. As such it defeated AACS but not BD+ which made it useless for just about every disk I tried.

So, unless something has changed . . .

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post #524 of 575 Old 06-27-2014, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by EVT View Post
Their position isn't that difficult to understand - why shouldn't they try stop as many people who haven't bought a movie from watching it as they can?
Because stopping piracy has never worked and that time and money would be better spend on converting people into paying customers?

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One way to make everyone happy would be to speed up the implementation of Ultraviolet.
Yeah, right. Everyone not out of their mind wouldn't touch it with a 10 feet pole.

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post #525 of 575 Old 06-27-2014, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
You quoted my post above in which I gave you the IP address for the latest EU version of 9.1.5.2. Why don't you download that, install it to its own folder and make sure it works for you the way you want it to. You can install multiple versions of DVD Fab in separate folders and run them separately. I never update a version but install it separately until I am convinced it does what I want -- then I simply delete the folder of the one I don't want any more. I have had as many as 4 versions of DVD Fab installed at once and tested all four of them to rip the same disk.
If I purchase the "DVDFab All-In-One Lifetime" [US Version], will that license also work for the EU version? If so, will I continue to get free EU updates or will all updates be for the US version?
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post #526 of 575 Old 06-28-2014, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Rodimez View Post
If I purchase the "DVDFab All-In-One Lifetime" [US Version], will that license also work for the EU version? If so, will I continue to get free EU updates or will all updates be for the US version?
One more time:
The license is for all versions. There are no restrictions on who uses what version, only on the actual download of the program. Regardless of which version you have installed, if you have a US IP address you can only download the US version. So you have to continue to download the EU version for each update.
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post #527 of 575 Old 06-29-2014, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by EVT View Post
Their position isn't that difficult to understand - why shouldn't they try stop as many people who haven't bought a movie from watching it as they can? However, the legitimate buyers of blu-ray disks that want to shift them to a digital version that they can access from their NAS on their TV or tablet, etc get dragged into it as well.
Restrictions on format shifting aren't primarily about reducing unauthorised distribution, they are about milking every last dollar from existing copyright. Over the past 30 years we've shifted from VHS to DVD to Bluray, and now to Digital. With physical distribution media, the copyright owner has been able to gain a royalty from each the format shift (first you bought a movie on VHS, then you bought the DVD version, and finally you bought the Bluray version). Software such as DVDFab allows the consumer to format shift to the latest distribution media (digital) without paying a royalty to the copyright owner.

Secondly, the world was traditionally segregated into distinct distribution markets with each market having different pricing based on what the individual market was prepared to pay for the product. Generally this also included an intermediary who had the exclusive rights to distribute in that particular market, and took a cut of the sales. This enabled the copyright owner to maximise their profits. DRM on DVD and Blu Ray allow the copyright owners to maintain these structures and economic rents. With increased globalisation and associated ease of access by consumers to other markets, consumers realised they could parallel import content at a much cheaper price than buying locally. In order to do this, tools such as DVDFab are necessary to remove the geographic restrictions on the media.

Format shifting and market segmentation are the biggest cash cows for the content industry, and hence their desire to limit the availablility of tools which challenge their exclusive monopoly on distribution.
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post #528 of 575 Old 06-29-2014, 09:45 PM
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Downloaded the EU 9152 on my new PC, worked like a champ with my US lifetime subscription login! I may go ahead and install it on my older PC that currently has my library stored on it. I presume the link for the EU version can just be modified to the new version # when there's updates?

Bit by the upgrade bug, limited by the WAF
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post #529 of 575 Old 06-29-2014, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by upstate-avfan-da View Post
I presume the link for the EU version can just be modified to the new version # when there's updates?
So far that seems to be the case for the latest version but for how long, who knows.
The latest release version is 9.1.5.6 (6/27/14). The EU version is here:
http://174.142.97.100/download/DVDFab9156.exe

49.9MB, I just downloaded it.

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post #530 of 575 Old 07-01-2014, 12:55 PM
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For me if I can't get the exact quality of the disc I purchased than what is the point. The whole point for me of ripping all my discs is being able to access my entire media at the touch of a button without having to fumble around with discs. I see no benefit to Ultraviolet if it means to continue with this process I have to watch a degraded copy (or go back to using the physical disc which defeats the purpose in the first place)
I see your point with regards to quality and I agree it isn't at a point where it's ready to compete with a native blu-ray. However, I have to ask, as someone who has been doing this a while I can't imagine that there hasn't been days perhaps after a failed hard drive or two that something like Ultraviolet doesn't start to look attractive. I'm with you on the quality but I would be happy to avoid ripping if they upped the quality of UV (even if it was marginally lower) that would mean there's no need to maintain a server, no need for expensive media players (e.g. Dune), no need to index movies, etc.
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post #531 of 575 Old 07-01-2014, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kesawi View Post
Restrictions on format shifting aren't primarily about reducing unauthorised distribution, they are about milking every last dollar from existing copyright. Over the past 30 years we've shifted from VHS to DVD to Bluray, and now to Digital. With physical distribution media, the copyright owner has been able to gain a royalty from each the format shift (first you bought a movie on VHS, then you bought the DVD version, and finally you bought the Bluray version). Software such as DVDFab allows the consumer to format shift to the latest distribution media (digital) without paying a royalty to the copyright owner.

Secondly, the world was traditionally segregated into distinct distribution markets with each market having different pricing based on what the individual market was prepared to pay for the product. Generally this also included an intermediary who had the exclusive rights to distribute in that particular market, and took a cut of the sales. This enabled the copyright owner to maximise their profits. DRM on DVD and Blu Ray allow the copyright owners to maintain these structures and economic rents. With increased globalisation and associated ease of access by consumers to other markets, consumers realised they could parallel import content at a much cheaper price than buying locally. In order to do this, tools such as DVDFab are necessary to remove the geographic restrictions on the media.

Format shifting and market segmentation are the biggest cash cows for the content industry, and hence their desire to limit the availablility of tools which challenge their exclusive monopoly on distribution.
I follow your points in the second paragraph and there are some pretty extreme examples of pricing things based on what each different market will bear, but, the move from VHS to DVD and then to Blu-Ray is not the same thing. In each case, there's more to it than format shifting, the increase in quality was also exponential (at least in most cases). I've repurchased more DVDs on Blu-Ray than I care to admit but I don't recall feeling ripped off in any of those cases.

Also, you have to admit that the advent of the digital copy is at least a move in the right direction by studios in trying to meet your format shifting needs. You get an HD copy that you can access on many different devices.

Last edited by EVT; 07-01-2014 at 01:14 PM.
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post #532 of 575 Old 07-01-2014, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Watsy1958 View Post
The movie industry should just take there lumps and move on..there spending millions to shut down dvd fab so what are there plans for the other 20 decrypters that are on the market, to reach the supreme courts it must take at least a year to reach the courtroom so do the math over all it's a shame but there just wasting there time and making the scumbag lawyers rich..
There is also no guarantee that DRM increases sales in the first place. A significant percentage of music, video games, and (ahem) porn are DRM free nowadays (at least for purchases rather than rentals), and there is evidence that it increases sales, not decreases them.
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post #533 of 575 Old 07-01-2014, 01:12 PM
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Because stopping piracy has never worked and that time and money would be better spend on converting people into paying customers?


Yeah, right. Everyone not out of their mind wouldn't touch it with a 10 feet pole.
Look, I don't subscribe to the ideas the studios float that each instance of piracy is a lost sale - that's just plain ridiculous. However, I can't believe that they aren't losing at least some revenue to piracy, surely those who are interested enough to pirate movies would buy some movies even if they wouldn't buy anywhere near the number they might pirate if copy protection was full-proof. I also can't imagine that the studios don't already view it as a goal to convert pirates into paying customers.

As for Ultraviolet, I'm not claiming its perfect in implementation - far from it. However, as a concept I think it's great. If they could step up the quality, and you could get a digital copy of movies you already own for a small fee I believe it would enhance almost anyone's enjoyment of their collection, as a concept it offers at least the following benefits:

- No investment in hardware needed (no server, no expensive media players, etc.);
- Adding a movie is virtually instantaneous (it takes seconds to enter a code, and considerably longer to rip to hard drive);
- You can access your collection virtually anywhere and on many different devices (blu-ray players, PCs, tablets, smartphones, etc.); and
- There's even the ability to share access to your collection with family members.

So as a concept, I think UV is great. Hopefully the quality and availability of titles starts to happen.
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post #534 of 575 Old 07-01-2014, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by EVT View Post
I follow your points in the second paragraph and there are some pretty extreme examples of pricing things based on what each different market will bear, but, the move from VHS to DVD and then to Blu-Ray is not the same thing. In each case, there's more to it than format shifting, the increase in quality was also exponential (at least in most cases). I've repurchased more DVDs on Blu-Ray than I care to admit but I don't recall feeling ripped off in any of those cases.
I agree, each of those format shifts has resulted in a large change in quality, however the premium extracted to format shift is disproportionately high compared to the quality gain. The content owners have effectively forced consumers to pay for the content each time. Format shifting from physical media (such as Blu Ray) to digital generally provides no quality gain. In fact, often there is a small reduction in quality as the digital copy needs to be compressed to accommodate the average consumer’s storage and bandwidth constraints (I acknowledge that Blu Ray and DVD can be format shifted through remuxing without any quality loss, however the majority of consumers don't possess the storage capacity that an AVS member is likely to have). The content owners still want to maintain their model of extracting economic rents for each format shift. DRM and legal restrictions on format shifting and enable them to do this.

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Also, you have to admit that the advent of the digital copy is at least a move in the right direction by studios in trying to meet your format shifting needs. You get an HD copy that you can access on many different devices.
I agree the advent of providing digital copies with the purchase of physical media is a good positive step forward to meeting consumer demand. However, this only addresses newly purchased content, not owners of existing content on physical media. Furthermore the digital copies provided often have DRM which limits the ability of consumers to chose which devices and locations they can use to consume the content, and are compressed to a reduced quality compared to the physical media (The reduction in quality is probably not noticed by the average consumer).

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post #535 of 575 Old 07-01-2014, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by EVT View Post
I see your point with regards to quality and I agree it isn't at a point where it's ready to compete with a native blu-ray. However, I have to ask, as someone who has been doing this a while I can't imagine that there hasn't been days perhaps after a failed hard drive or two that something like Ultraviolet doesn't start to look attractive. I'm with you on the quality but I would be happy to avoid ripping if they upped the quality of UV (even if it was marginally lower) that would mean there's no need to maintain a server, no need for expensive media players (e.g. Dune), no need to index movies, etc.
UV does not have a specific quality. In fact you can turn a DVD into a BD using it.
Kalidescape has bit perfect BD copies in their UV library.

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post #536 of 575 Old 07-01-2014, 11:09 PM
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However, I have to ask, as someone who has been doing this a while I can't imagine that there hasn't been days perhaps after a failed hard drive or two that something like Ultraviolet doesn't start to look attractive
I have a RAID5 NAS running and my original BDs are stored in the basement for backup. I don't worry about failed drives.

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surely those who are interested enough to pirate movies would buy some movies
I'm still sure it's rather like how Infamous Joe put it:

People pirate for three major reasons:
1. They have no money to buy your product
2. They don't value your product enough to pay for it
3. They're freeloaders who won't pay for any digital goods.

If we could wave a wand and make piracy go away, none of the above-mentioned groups would suddenly start buying.

Group 1 still has no money
Group 2 still doesn't value your products
and Group 3 is still a bunch of freeloaders.

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As for Ultraviolet, I'm not claiming its perfect in implementation - far from it.
It's not only the lacking technical implementation but who's behind it and what stunts those people have pulled before on their paying customers.

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Originally Posted by EVT View Post
If they could step up the quality, and you could get a digital copy of movies you already own for a small fee I believe it would enhance almost anyone's enjoyment of their collection, as a concept it offers at least the following benefits
Why do I have to pay a small fee when I've already paid a big fee for the BD? Mind you, the only reason you're not enjyoing those benefits right now is their insistence on DRM preventing you from doing so.

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Last edited by techflaws; 07-01-2014 at 11:15 PM.
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post #537 of 575 Old 07-02-2014, 08:16 PM
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UV does not have a specific quality. In fact you can turn a DVD into a BD using it.
Kalidescape has bit perfect BD copies in their UV library.

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As far as I know, what UV offers is the upgrade of a DVD to an HD copy, not necessarily one that is equivalent to blu-ray. I've tried it on a couple of titles that weren't available on blu-ray at the time and they looked pretty good, later I bought the blu-ray's of those titles when they were released and they looked considerably better still.

Also, unless my information is wrong, I don't think that the copies offered by Kaleidescope are UV copies.
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post #538 of 575 Old 07-02-2014, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by EVT View Post
As far as I know, what UV offers is the upgrade of a DVD to an HD copy, not necessarily one that is equivalent to blu-ray. I've tried it on a couple of titles that weren't available on blu-ray at the time and they looked pretty good, later I bought the blu-ray's of those titles when they were released and they looked considerably better still.

Also, unless my information is wrong, I don't think that the copies offered by Kaleidescope are UV copies.
Each UVVU service provides its own video files and bandwidth etc. UV is just the authentication. This is why Vudu provides HDX which is very good quality (though true, not quite BD). Target may provide something less and Kalidescape, now they are on the UV bandwagon will provide you a bitperfect copy. Remember the Kalidescape file will need to be downloaded to your local KS device, not streamed.

So when you UVed a DVD it offered you an HD quality even though the BD was not available! Interesting, I wonder what their digital source was and I wonder if it was upgraded when the BD was released.
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post #539 of 575 Old 07-06-2014, 09:42 PM
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People pirate for three major reasons:
1. They have no money to buy your product
2. They don't value your product enough to pay for it
3. They're freeloaders who won't pay for any digital goods.

If we could wave a wand and make piracy go away, none of the above-mentioned groups would suddenly start buying.

Group 1 still has no money
Group 2 still doesn't value your products
and Group 3 is still a bunch of freeloaders.
This means that decreasing prices works better than adding DRM just because allows more people from 1 and 2 to pay for something.

Google seems to agree with that http://www.kotaku.com.au/2014/03/goo...icing-problem/
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post #540 of 575 Old 07-07-2014, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by techflaws View Post
People pirate for three major reasons:
1. They have no money to buy your product
2. They don't value your product enough to pay for it
3. They're freeloaders who won't pay for any digital goods.
I'd add

4. They want digital versions of their purchased content to use on multiple devices.

Downloading is often easier than copying. EDIT: In fact, its faster and easier than buying as well.
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