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Giving Up on Blu-Ray: Why I Switched to The Cloud

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42K views 705 replies 172 participants last post by  CinemaAndy 
#1 · (Edited)


About a week ago, I decided to get rid of all my Blu-ray discs. It was not a large collection, only 110 titles. Still, the discs represent an investment of about $2000, and I bought most of them over the course the last 18 months. Although I've watched Blu-rays since the format first came out, I started buying them on a regular basis when I started writing comparisons of Blu-ray with online delivery formats here on AVS forum. A recent poll by Scott Wilkinson showed that three quarters of AVS members prefer to get their movies on Blu-ray. With over 1000 votes, it might not be a scientific poll, but it is indicative of how the broader AVS community feels about Blu-ray versus cloud-based HD movie formats. In past articles, whenever I suggested that the online-delivery formats come close to matching Blu-ray in overall quality, it has triggered a lot of debate. 
My Vudu HDX movie collection replaced my Blu-ray collection 

When I first started with the format comparisons, it was not uncommon to see a big difference between Blu-ray and online formats such as iTunes HD and Vudu HDX. But as time went by, the overall quality of those online delivery formats improved. It's not because of an increase in allotted bandwidth; the specs for iTunes HD and Vudu HDX are the same as they've been for the last few years. I believe it's because the content providers have improved the quality of their product. Ultimately, results matter—cloud-based HD movie formats now look very good, even on a large screen. In 2014, the main reason I continued to buy Blu-rays was for 3D. While I enjoy 3D on occasion, I don’t enjoy wearing glasses to experience it. Recently, several factors led me to a change of heart about watching movies in 3D on my Vizio M3D550KD, a 1080p, passive-3D, LED-edgelit LCD. The first disrupting factor was a two-month trial of a TV featuring Ultra-D glasses-free 3D; you can read about that experience in this thread. After spending those months watching 3D without having to wear glasses, I can't go back to watching my Vizio or any other TV that requires spectacles in order to experience the illusion of depth. The Ultra-D TV along with my (former) collection of 3D Blu-rays 

The second disrupting factor was my very recent purchase of a Samsung PN60F5300 plasma. For $799 (on sale), it offers 60 inches of plasma image quality—including the ability to calibrate color using 10-point grayscale controls. What it does not have is 3D. When I compare the experience of watching actual 3D on my Vizio versus 2D on the plasma, there's no question that the plasma wins out. Even a movie like Gravity benefited more from plasma's intrinsic deep blacks and high motion resolution than it did from its award-winning 3D special effects. Now, before you suggest that I should have purchased a plasma with 3D capabilities, I should mention that I bought the Vizio M3D550KD because I could not stand watching active 3D using shutter glasses. Prior to the Vizio, I owned a Panasonic plasma (VT30) that featured active 3D. As sharp as that VT30 was in full-HD 3D mode, it was also too dim to watch, and it suffered from crosstalk. It hardly matters what the problems were, because I accidentally broke the screen on that plasma—don't ask how, suffice to say it was my fault. The replacement for that panel was the Vizio; at the time, I found passive 3D on an LCD TV was much brighter and easier on the eyes. Also, I was so excited about 3D that I was willing to forgive many of the image-quality flaws of edgelit LCDs. Those factors came together in my decision to get rid of all my Blu-rays. Almost on a whim, I took my stack of discs down to the CEX store on South Street in Philadelphia and waited as the employee inspected and scanned each disc. After almost an hour, the deed was done, and I accepted a cash payment of $340 in exchange for my stack of discs. I had expected to get less out of the transaction, so I was happy with the result. Prior to stopping at CEX, I tried to sell the discs at a used movie/bookstore where the owner looked mortified that I wanted money for my collection. Given that, and the fact that Amazon was only offering a pittance in credit for the same titles, I was perfectly happy taking the money from what amounts to a glorified pawnshop. On June 3, 2014, 300: Rise of an Empire came out as a digital early release. The sequel to the R-rated blockbuster 300 is a completely ridiculous, exploitive, gratuitous, and violent movie full of in-your-face 3D special effects—it's the sort of movie I buy on 3D Blu-ray. This time, I looked at the options available on Vudu and decided to buy the combo pack that included the 2D and 3D versions in HDX format, which include special features. It was not cheap; after tax, it cost me $35. The 2D version looked and sounded great, with only a few banding artifacts creeping into deep shadows, but 99% of the time it looked fantastic. The 3D version of the movie was quite a surprise—it looked as good as any 3D Blu-ray I've seen, with nary an artifact to spoil the effect. 300: Rise of an Empire is available for online delivery—in 2D and 3D—with special features. 

I know that giving up Blu-rays won't work for many people—access to adequate bandwidth is a major issue in many areas, and some people feel that physical media offers more security—that a disc represents ownership and a license to a cloud-based product does not. I've read many comments along the lines of, "What happens if the cloud-based movie service goes out of business?" That's probably the most contentious aspect of my decision—are my UltraViolet-licensed titles going to be accessible forever? I don’t have a good answer for that, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.I fully agree with anyone who claims that Blu-ray currently offers the very best 1080p image quality that's available to consumers at a reasonable price. In my own comparisons, I've never seen an online format such as iTunes HD, Amazon HD, or Vudu HDX beat Blu-ray in terms of picture quality. Nevertheless, I've also seen those formats—and especially Vudu HDX—come incredibly close to Blu-ray's picture quality time after-time. The quality difference is no longer enough to keep me on the physical-disc side of the fence. I strongly prefer having my library readily available on multiple devices. In addition, before anyone even asks—I flatly refuse to rip Blu-rays. It's a shame that the laws are what they are, but that doesn’t mean I'm ready to break 'em. Going forward, I'll probably buy 3D Blu-rays when they go on sale. The price of 3D via online delivery is often higher than the Blu-ray version, and as I discovered, 3D Blu-rays retain at least a bit of resale value. Buying, then selling, 3D Blu-rays allows me to view a movie in 3D for half the cost of 3D on Vudu HDX, and I still end up with an UltraViolet license that I can redeem for a 2D HDX copy of the film. Is it the best of both worlds? It is for me, at least for now. When it comes to 2D movies, I'm considerably less motivated to buy Blu-ray in the future. I've grown comfortable with paying $15 for a license to an iTunes HD or Vudu HDX version of a movie. For me, the plusses outweigh the minuses. Part of what makes it work for me is that I already have fast Internet access, and my viewing habits don't put me at risk of exceeding my bandwidth cap. I fully acknowledge that adequate Internet bandwidth is a pre-requisite to successfully making the transition to cloud-based content delivery. For me, the time to make that switch has arrived. I'm sure that other AVS members will have a different take, so whether you think I'm crazy, impatient, savvy, or just plain dumb for selling off my Blu-rays, please chime in and let me know your thoughts on this controversial

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#642 ·
I do not have an HDMI AVR either. However, I do have an HDMI TV.

I run HDMI from Bluray player to HDMI in TV. I run optical audio from TV to AVR. I also run audio optical from Bluray player to AVR audio in.

Off air TV audio (multi channel ATSC DD) is via optical to AVR. Same audio with streaming via the internal internet TV connection.

DVD audio is either via TV or Bluray player to AVR. Both work the same as encoded on disk.

Bluray audio is via optical to AVR under normal conditions. Bluray audio via TV optical is limited to 2 channel, so I do not use that output except for 1.0 or 2.0 program material. Bluray 1.0 material comes out as 2.0 TV audio (as I recall). I don't recall what happens with 2.1 material on the optical TV output.


The audio Cinema audio modes that I try are extra audio modes, perhaps specific to Sony AVRs. They are not the movie, music and game modes that are part of the Dolby Prologic and DTS Neo decoders.


Anyhow, my AVR's remote control allows me to select the audio mode that I want to use without having to fiddle with turning the center channel off and on in the setup menu.
 
#651 · (Edited)
You're in a cabin, with a dial up modem..do you write manifestos? :)

Your scenario and choice is yours, but I would say is extremely uncommon for the segment we are talking about here - AVS members spend stupid money (at any gross amount relative to means) on non-necessity, pleasure purchases. Spending $15 p/m more to go from DSL to 15 Mbps cable, which benefits use in all ways, not just for streaming, seems like a no brainer for this crowd.
 
#652 · (Edited)
You're in a cabin, with a dial up modem..do you write manifestos? :)

Your scenario and choice is yours, but I would say is extremely uncommon for the segment we are talking about here - AVS members spend stupid money (at any gross amount relative to means) on non-necessity, pleasure purchases. Spending $15 p/m more to go from DSL to 15 Mbps cable, which benefits use in all ways, not just for streaming, seems like a no brainer for this crowd.
Yup! As I've mentioned in other posts, a robust broadband connection is essentially a must-have for high-end home theaters. It's also a popular option for people who simply own a TV and a Roku, or FireTV, or Apple TV, or a Blu-ray player, or a gaming console, or a HTPC, or who own a Smart TV—it's all about having more options, not restricting yourself to one delivery method (disc, download, stream) or another.
 
#653 ·
And streaming does not mean you need the fastest fattest pipe your cable co offers.
As a fan of 4 in NYC we have a 15 meg line the smallest TWC offer. Streams 9Mb HDX no problem. That's what 60% of line capacity. Room for others to surf the internet etc.
The additional cost of bandwidth for streaming is 0

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk
 
#656 ·
DSL is almost gone from my area, truly. Verizon has a 29.99 per month plan, but the fine print says you must have Verizon phone service as well, which I'd imagine is $10-15 per month. So figure $40-50 per month, plus phone line taxes. I believe they also have a bare bones 1 Mbps service for $20, though this also requires a phone service, so figure $35 perhaps.

Cablevision offers 15 Mpbs download at $49 per month stand alone, 50 Mbps download for $5 more per month - $54.

I doubt anyone here would commit to option 2 or find the differential between Option 1 vs Cable as significant. But I suppose its possible...
 
#672 ·
Between my wife and I, we know a few dozens families in the area...through social visits or requests for me to help them with issues (because they are not technically savvy and I am) I can say none of them, save one, has a dedicated theater. Everyone else has a bang and hang flat panel, avr, soundbar or small speakers. They all have either Cablevision, Comcast, Verizon FIOS, or Time Warner of 15 Mbps or greater. General internet usage, social media, youtube nonsense and some ancillary business functions constitute the primary uses. Most don't own streaming devices, or if they'd do, they don't use them much.

Two dozen doesn't make a thorough survey, but in metro/suburban regions, these speeds are really the defacto standard. I haven't heard of a DSL owner in several years.

If you live in rural areas, you have different challenges and benefits. Maybe high speed costs a little more, but I'd rather have your COLA, income tax, property tax and other benefits you have.
 
#674 · (Edited)
Between my wife and I, we know a few dozens families in the area...through social visits or requests for me to help them with issues (because they are not technically savvy and I am) I can say none of them, save one, has a dedicated theater.

Two dozen doesn't make a thorough survey, but in metro/suburban regions, these speeds are really the defacto standard. I haven't heard of a DSL owner in several years.
In my village there are 30 homes and I believe twenty-eight (rounding downwards) or so have dedicated/home theater rooms. Regarding DSL AT&T discontinued it quite a while back and only offer U-Verse now. Which starts at $46 ($29 for one-year commitment - 3Mbps) and would cost another $10 ($39 for one-year commitment) to get enough bandwidth to stream two HD streams at a time. Only $5 if you only wanted one. From past history I'm betting you could get a even higher speed for the same price if you simply called and negotiated for a couple of minutes.

At the moment I happen to have two Internet lines via business so any streaming is at zero cost as well as VoIP... knock on wood it will stay as such.
 
#675 ·
For my business purpose and daily use, I only need a $30 package, for streaming I have to go for the $62 package plus another $25 to get unlimited. So the difference between regular use vs Netflix for me is (including Netflix fee) is about $80 after taxes...about the price of 8 to 10 used / older blu-ray movies.

If I'm strapped for cash, I'd choose to buy blu-rays, at least I can still resell them afterwards :D
 
#677 ·
If things keep continuing as they are we'll just start removing people from the conversation.
 
#679 ·
I don't know if this was mentioned before, but the Vudu prices are a little out-of-line in my opinion. Most Vudu rentals are $6-$7 when I can rent a blu-ray from Redbox for $1.50 with better quality and the same viewing window. I can get a minimum of 4 blu-rays from Netflix for around $12/month so about $3 per rental and several days to watch them. It also seems like most movies can be purchased on blu-ray and added to Vudu with disc-to-digital for less money than buying on Vudu outright and you then you still have the disc to fall back on. Other than the convenience of not having to wait a short period of time for the movie, I don't see how their pricing is attracting many customers.
 
#681 ·
I don't know if this was mentioned before, but the Vudu prices are a little out-of-line in my opinion. Most Vudu rentals are $6-$7 when I can rent a blu-ray from Redbox for $1.50 with better quality and the same viewing window. I can get a minimum of 4 blu-rays from Netflix for around $12/month so about $3 per rental and several days to watch them. It also seems like most movies can be purchased on blu-ray and added to Vudu with disc-to-digital for less money than buying on Vudu outright and you then you still have the disc to fall back on. Other than the convenience of not having to wait a short period of time for the movie, I don't see how their pricing is attracting many customers.
I totally agree that with Vudu the pricing for rental/purchase is too high, and the rental window is too short.
 
#693 ·
I just bought "The Hurt Locker," "Pulp Fiction" and "Cowboys vs. Aliens" for $7.78 at Wal Mart with UV copies. You can have both! Just keep an eye out for the deals.
 
#694 · (Edited)
Vudu has pro's and con's and for me personally.. it's nearly a tie.

Pro's
1. Vudu is Walmart's baby and Walmart isn't going to go out of business in our lifetime, and they're not ones to invest 100 million into something only to give up on it. They'd sooner sacrifice their employees to their lord and savor, the great Lucifer.

2. I can watch an entire season of a show without having to get up once to change discs.

3. All of their shows and films have auto resume, and a chapter selection menu, which gives it a huge advantage over just ripping a bd to mkv, especially since all the Sony players I've tried, if you stop an MKV half way through, you're starting over at the beginning when you turn the player back on.

4. Not sure if I can mention the 4th pro because even though Ebay and Paypal seem to allow it, I'm not sure if it's legit. It should be since they usually won't allow their services to be used for anything that violates copyright or is illegal, but they may have just gotten lazy.

5. Target Tickets which is relatively new, their shows they sell can only be watched on their service, which still does not have an app on my BD player, not sure about other companies like Phillips or Samsung. But most of the movies are UV, so they link up on my UV account, which is linked to my Vudu account. So if Vudu is charging too much for a movie, or doesn't have a movie, for example right now they're not selling Aliens, I can get it at Target Tickets. Or is it Target Ticket?

Con's

1. I imagine it is the studio that makes the call but more often than not, Vudu and the others only get the theatrical cuts of films. I got the Vudu code for T2 when I got the Steelbox edition of the film a few weeks ago, and while the steelbox edition comes with the Skynet edition of the film which includes the special edition of the film, the vudu code only unlocks the copy of T2 Vudu has available which is the theatrical cut. And it really bounces around. Zombie's H2, the director's cut and theatrical cut are on Vudu for sale, but Zombie's Halloween, just the theatrical cut, and World War Z, if you want the extra gore, you better hop over to the store and get it on BD because Vudu just has the theatrical cut.

2. The audio is fine when watching stuff using the displays internal speakers, but if I go home theater, there's a noticeable difference. Thing is, I usually only go home theater when playing a concert and that brings me to con #4

3. Vudu as far as I can tell doesn't have very many concerts on their service, for example Metallica I believe has 3-4 concerts on blu ray now, and Vudu doesn't have any of them.

4. If I get sick of a film or show I buy on Vudu, I can request they remove it and they have no issue doing that, but I can't toss it up on ebay for 3.99 or 4.99 or for whatever the average blu ray goes for used on Ebay these days.

The only thing I won't go digital on would be comics and albums. I like album artwork, and I like owning the cd. To be fair, I've always been more into music than film or television, and I also like the flac's and mp3's I make using my cd's better than the ones Amazon and ITunes sell. And comics, I only read TWD and back issues of TWD skyrocket pretty fast. A few back issues saved my butt last year when my computer broke and I needed extra money. I can't do that with movies, if I tried to sell my copy if I Spit On Your Grave right now, I'd get 5 dollars if I was lucky. It costs more in gas to get to the post office.

As for those who don't like UV.. I get it. You're just like I am with music only with movies.

But hey, just email me those UV codes.. and in return.. I'll say thank you. :D
 
#695 ·
Since 300 Rise of an Empire was not available for rental from Redbox, we streamed it off VuDu.
Although the PQ was really good the audio was lacking fullness and subtitle details.
I had to increase my volume by 6db just to get some fullness but the dynamics just appears to be lacking.
Audio may be going to all 5.1 speakers but the audio appears to be lacking bandwidth and fullness.
For full actions movies, I might start skipping VuDu and wait 30 days for the Blu-ray to become available.
 
#696 ·
I'm feeling the critics of the sound quality. I've noticed the dynamics in DD+ don't seem to have the same impact as full-bore 24/96 uncompressed Blu-ray. It matters a lot for some movies, not so much for others. Another reason why I'll still watch some movies on Blu-ray for now, even if I don't start another collection. I'm curious what the streaming version of Dolby Atmos could bring to the table.
 
#702 ·
Couldn't one store all their BDs on an NAS? I just did that for all my CDs and want to do it for BDs. 3-4TB drives are getting almost cheap.
yes, this is quite easy. I have a 20+ TB NAS I store all my 2D and 3D BD's on and stream them to the Mede8er network player. I have these all over my house and have fast, random access to my collection. It also has a 4TB drive inside so I can take it with me over to friends/family.

the best part is no compromise on video or sound quality. My main viewing is a 142" 16:9 screen which is not a forgiving setup.
 
#705 · (Edited)
The writer spends a good deal of time explaining the benefits of internet-based content but, IMO, fails to do an adequate job of explaining how establishing a Right of First Sale doctrine for digital content would harm innovation in the field. While it is true that permanent license to use content does not degrade over time and would potentially hold its value better than used physical media, I don't see this as being all that different in the grand scheme of things. For one thing, most digital content being consumed today is being "sold" as a temporary license, whether thru a monthly subscription service, thru rentals, or free to the consumer but paid for thru advertising. This sort of licensing would not be subject to any Right of First Sale, just as consumers are not allowed to sell content they rented from a video store or a mail delivery service. Therefore, the only revenue that is potentially at stake is that which comes from the sale of permanent licenses (e.g. content the consumer actually owns). The question then is, how many sales will the industry lose as a result of one consumer purchasing a permanent license from another consumer instead of from the industry? Is the market for "used" permanent licenses really going to be that much bigger than the market for used physical media was in the past? If so, then you have a problem. If not then I don't see an issue. My guess is that it will eventually be marginally bigger, but not enough to justify restricting consumers right to sell property they have purchased.

Bear in mind that permanent licenses do not hold their value indefinitely, either. While they may have less risk of degradation in the short term than physical media, they are no less suceptible to obsolescence. If I buy an SD copy of a movie today, the industry has no obligation to upgrade that copy to HD for free. Nor will they have to upgrade it to a 4K copy for free. So long as a better version becomes available in the future, they can continue selling the same content over an over again. Existing copies will lose their value because they will not be as good as the new version.

I don't know about you, but I doubt that I would be any more willing to take a risk on purchasing a "used" permanent license from somebody I don't know than purchasing used physical media from somebody I don't know. Generally, I only buy direct from retailer or from somebody I know. And even if I was willing to risk it, it really isn't that big of a hassle to purchase physical goods online and have them delivered today. The only advantage digital content really has for the consumer, in this case, is the speed of delivery. But that is a difference between physical media and digital content, not between digital content purchased from a retailer vs. digital content purchased 2nd hand.

Something the article doesn't address is how much it might be costing the industry in potential revenue from the sale of permanent licenses due to the fact that there isn't a Right of First Sale for digital content. How many sales are they potentially losing because people are not willing to pay full price for something that they can't sell at some point in the future?
 
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