Giving Up on Blu-Ray: Why I Switched to The Cloud - Page 24 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 259Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #691 of 706 Old 06-23-2014, 05:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Wendell R. Breland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Scratched discs were one of the main reasons I gave up on disc rentals from Netflix, I view it as being the same as buffering. Another issue was the (lack of) availability of new releases. I also got a bit skeeved by the dirty envelopes, but that's just me.
Never rented that many DVD's from Netflix, most were scratched but played without issues most of the time. Never had a scratched Blu-ray, a few have been damaged or broken when received, no problem, just click the icon and another disc shows up in a day or two.
Wendell R. Breland is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #692 of 706 Old 06-23-2014, 08:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Delaware - The First State (USA)
Posts: 9,969
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 191 Post(s)
Liked: 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post
Never rented that many DVD's from Netflix, most were scratched but played without issues most of the time. Never had a scratched Blu-ray, a few have been damaged or broken when received, no problem, just click the icon and another disc shows up in a day or two.
I've been with NetFlix for many many years and that has been my experience also. A handful of broken disks that the Post Office mangles but never a scratched BluRay nor a DVD that didn't play. I will stay with Netflix for as long as they keep renting disks.

When I want to fight with badly scratched disks, I get them from the public library. Hard to believe how badly people treat those disks. I've had disks with deep circular scratches on them that looked like someone tried to play it with a phonograph needle first. A surprising number of them still played.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

Kelson is offline  
post #693 of 706 Old 06-24-2014, 07:40 PM
Senior Member
 
ril850's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Oxnard (So Cal)
Posts: 271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I just bought "The Hurt Locker," "Pulp Fiction" and "Cowboys vs. Aliens" for $7.78 at Wal Mart with UV copies. You can have both! Just keep an eye out for the deals.

Life is what you make it.......
ril850 is offline  
post #694 of 706 Old 06-27-2014, 02:17 AM
Member
 
Devianza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Vudu has pro's and con's and for me personally.. it's nearly a tie.

Pro's
1. Vudu is Walmart's baby and Walmart isn't going to go out of business in our lifetime, and they're not ones to invest 100 million into something only to give up on it. They'd sooner sacrifice their employees to their lord and savor, the great Lucifer.

2. I can watch an entire season of a show without having to get up once to change discs.

3. All of their shows and films have auto resume, and a chapter selection menu, which gives it a huge advantage over just ripping a bd to mkv, especially since all the Sony players I've tried, if you stop an MKV half way through, you're starting over at the beginning when you turn the player back on.

4. Not sure if I can mention the 4th pro because even though Ebay and Paypal seem to allow it, I'm not sure if it's legit. It should be since they usually won't allow their services to be used for anything that violates copyright or is illegal, but they may have just gotten lazy.

5. Target Tickets which is relatively new, their shows they sell can only be watched on their service, which still does not have an app on my BD player, not sure about other companies like Phillips or Samsung. But most of the movies are UV, so they link up on my UV account, which is linked to my Vudu account. So if Vudu is charging too much for a movie, or doesn't have a movie, for example right now they're not selling Aliens, I can get it at Target Tickets. Or is it Target Ticket?

Con's

1. I imagine it is the studio that makes the call but more often than not, Vudu and the others only get the theatrical cuts of films. I got the Vudu code for T2 when I got the Steelbox edition of the film a few weeks ago, and while the steelbox edition comes with the Skynet edition of the film which includes the special edition of the film, the vudu code only unlocks the copy of T2 Vudu has available which is the theatrical cut. And it really bounces around. Zombie's H2, the director's cut and theatrical cut are on Vudu for sale, but Zombie's Halloween, just the theatrical cut, and World War Z, if you want the extra gore, you better hop over to the store and get it on BD because Vudu just has the theatrical cut.

2. The audio is fine when watching stuff using the displays internal speakers, but if I go home theater, there's a noticeable difference. Thing is, I usually only go home theater when playing a concert and that brings me to con #4

3. Vudu as far as I can tell doesn't have very many concerts on their service, for example Metallica I believe has 3-4 concerts on blu ray now, and Vudu doesn't have any of them.

4. If I get sick of a film or show I buy on Vudu, I can request they remove it and they have no issue doing that, but I can't toss it up on ebay for 3.99 or 4.99 or for whatever the average blu ray goes for used on Ebay these days.

The only thing I won't go digital on would be comics and albums. I like album artwork, and I like owning the cd. To be fair, I've always been more into music than film or television, and I also like the flac's and mp3's I make using my cd's better than the ones Amazon and ITunes sell. And comics, I only read TWD and back issues of TWD skyrocket pretty fast. A few back issues saved my butt last year when my computer broke and I needed extra money. I can't do that with movies, if I tried to sell my copy if I Spit On Your Grave right now, I'd get 5 dollars if I was lucky. It costs more in gas to get to the post office.

As for those who don't like UV.. I get it. You're just like I am with music only with movies.

But hey, just email me those UV codes.. and in return.. I'll say thank you.
SMHarman likes this.

Last edited by Devianza; 06-27-2014 at 02:24 AM.
Devianza is offline  
post #695 of 706 Old 06-30-2014, 08:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
42Plasmaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,041
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Since 300 Rise of an Empire was not available for rental from Redbox, we streamed it off VuDu.
Although the PQ was really good the audio was lacking fullness and subtitle details.
I had to increase my volume by 6db just to get some fullness but the dynamics just appears to be lacking.
Audio may be going to all 5.1 speakers but the audio appears to be lacking bandwidth and fullness.
For full actions movies, I might start skipping VuDu and wait 30 days for the Blu-ray to become available.

2014
42Plasmaman is offline  
post #696 of 706 Old 06-30-2014, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Writer @ AVS
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,561
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1040 Post(s)
Liked: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post
Since 300 Rise of an Empire was not available for rental from Redbox, we streamed it off VuDu.
Although the PQ was really good the audio was lacking fullness and subtitle details.
I had to increase my volume by 6db just to get some fullness but the dynamics just appears to be lacking.
Audio may be going to all 5.1 speakers but the audio appears to be lacking bandwidth and fullness.
For full actions movies, I might start skipping VuDu and wait 30 days for the Blu-ray to become available.
I'm feeling the critics of the sound quality. I've noticed the dynamics in DD+ don't seem to have the same impact as full-bore 24/96 uncompressed Blu-ray. It matters a lot for some movies, not so much for others. Another reason why I'll still watch some movies on Blu-ray for now, even if I don't start another collection. I'm curious what the streaming version of Dolby Atmos could bring to the table.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
imagic is offline  
post #697 of 706 Old 06-30-2014, 02:26 PM
Member
 
WayneJoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I'm feeling the critics of the sound quality. I've noticed the dynamics in DD+ don't seem to have the same impact as full-bore 24/96 uncompressed Blu-ray. It matters a lot for some movies, not so much for others. Another reason why I'll still watch some movies on Blu-ray for now, even if I don't start another collection. I'm curious what the streaming version of Dolby Atmos could bring to the table.
Although some 99% of Blu-rays are 24/48 or 16/48, not 24/96.
WayneJoy is online now  
post #698 of 706 Old 06-30-2014, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Writer @ AVS
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 5,561
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1040 Post(s)
Liked: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneJoy View Post
Although some 99% of Blu-rays are 24/48 or 16/48, not 24/96.
Sure, and it's not as if humans can hear the difference between 24/48 and 24/96 uncompressed audio anyhow. For what it's worth, the F8500 has only solidified my opinion that these days Vudu HDX achieves Blu-ray picture quality most of the time—I'm watching clips from Skyfall, Enders Game, and the last Harry Potter... nothing to complain about. I happen to think DD+ Vudu sound is quite good most of the time, but not up to the quality of the best Blu-rays.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
imagic is offline  
post #699 of 706 Old 06-30-2014, 07:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
xvfx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 624
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 73 Post(s)
Liked: 64
How does the all dark Voldemort scene on the hill look on the F8500?
xvfx is offline  
post #700 of 706 Old 07-02-2014, 06:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
redjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,771
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by xvfx View Post
....I suffer a lot of OCD, sadly. Or the fact I can't tolerate most peoples manky ways and carelessness.
And I thot I was the only one that suffered from these tendencies! If there's any doubt, all you have to do is watch an episode of 'stupid home videos.' Or is that 'stupid people's home videos.'

redjr...
Pioneer Elite - A-20, DV-79AVi, BDP-HD1, SC-05

redjr is offline  
post #701 of 706 Old 07-03-2014, 01:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ThumperII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,577
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 178
I cannot read an article that long that has no paragraphs. There should be a law.

Couldn't one store all their BDs on an NAS? I just did that for all my CDs and want to do it for BDs. 3-4TB drives are getting almost cheap.
ThumperII is offline  
post #702 of 706 Old 07-04-2014, 07:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
zombie10k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThumperII View Post

Couldn't one store all their BDs on an NAS? I just did that for all my CDs and want to do it for BDs. 3-4TB drives are getting almost cheap.
yes, this is quite easy. I have a 20+ TB NAS I store all my 2D and 3D BD's on and stream them to the Mede8er network player. I have these all over my house and have fast, random access to my collection. It also has a 4TB drive inside so I can take it with me over to friends/family.

the best part is no compromise on video or sound quality. My main viewing is a 142" 16:9 screen which is not a forgiving setup.
zombie10k is online now  
post #703 of 706 Old 07-04-2014, 09:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
42Plasmaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5,041
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman View Post
Since 300 Rise of an Empire was not available for rental from Redbox, we streamed it off VuDu.
Although the PQ was really good the audio was lacking fullness and subtitle details.
I had to increase my volume by 6db just to get some fullness but the dynamics just appears to be lacking.
Audio may be going to all 5.1 speakers but the audio appears to be lacking bandwidth and fullness.
For full actions movies, I might start skipping VuDu and wait 30 days for the Blu-ray to become available.
I had similar PQ/AQ results with VuDu with the Lego movie.
May be I'll learn the 3rd time...

2014
42Plasmaman is offline  
post #704 of 706 Old 07-11-2014, 12:20 PM
Senior Member
 
CinemaAndy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked: 67
CinemaAndy is offline  
post #705 of 706 Old 07-11-2014, 03:02 PM
Advanced Member
 
HockeyoAJB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 622
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post
The writer spends a good deal of time explaining the benefits of internet-based content but, IMO, fails to do an adequate job of explaining how establishing a Right of First Sale doctrine for digital content would harm innovation in the field. While it is true that permanent license to use content does not degrade over time and would potentially hold its value better than used physical media, I don't see this as being all that different in the grand scheme of things. For one thing, most digital content being consumed today is being "sold" as a temporary license, whether thru a monthly subscription service, thru rentals, or free to the consumer but paid for thru advertising. This sort of licensing would not be subject to any Right of First Sale, just as consumers are not allowed to sell content they rented from a video store or a mail delivery service. Therefore, the only revenue that is potentially at stake is that which comes from the sale of permanent licenses (e.g. content the consumer actually owns). The question then is, how many sales will the industry lose as a result of one consumer purchasing a permanent license from another consumer instead of from the industry? Is the market for "used" permanent licenses really going to be that much bigger than the market for used physical media was in the past? If so, then you have a problem. If not then I don't see an issue. My guess is that it will eventually be marginally bigger, but not enough to justify restricting consumers right to sell property they have purchased.

Bear in mind that permanent licenses do not hold their value indefinitely, either. While they may have less risk of degradation in the short term than physical media, they are no less suceptible to obsolescence. If I buy an SD copy of a movie today, the industry has no obligation to upgrade that copy to HD for free. Nor will they have to upgrade it to a 4K copy for free. So long as a better version becomes available in the future, they can continue selling the same content over an over again. Existing copies will lose their value because they will not be as good as the new version.

I don't know about you, but I doubt that I would be any more willing to take a risk on purchasing a "used" permanent license from somebody I don't know than purchasing used physical media from somebody I don't know. Generally, I only buy direct from retailer or from somebody I know. And even if I was willing to risk it, it really isn't that big of a hassle to purchase physical goods online and have them delivered today. The only advantage digital content really has for the consumer, in this case, is the speed of delivery. But that is a difference between physical media and digital content, not between digital content purchased from a retailer vs. digital content purchased 2nd hand.

Something the article doesn't address is how much it might be costing the industry in potential revenue from the sale of permanent licenses due to the fact that there isn't a Right of First Sale for digital content. How many sales are they potentially losing because people are not willing to pay full price for something that they can't sell at some point in the future?

Last edited by HockeyoAJB; 07-11-2014 at 03:06 PM.
HockeyoAJB is offline  
post #706 of 706 Old 07-12-2014, 12:31 AM
Senior Member
 
CinemaAndy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 295 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
The writer spends a good deal of time explaining the benefits of internet-based content but, IMO, fails to do an adequate job of explaining how establishing a Right of First Sale doctrine for digital content would harm innovation in the field. While it is true that permanent license to use content does not degrade over time and would potentially hold its value better than used physical media, I don't see this as being all that different in the grand scheme of things. For one thing, most digital content being consumed today is being "sold" as a temporary license, whether thru a monthly subscription service, thru rentals, or free to the consumer but paid for thru advertising. This sort of licensing would not be subject to any Right of First Sale, just as consumers are not allowed to sell content they rented from a video store or a mail delivery service. Therefore, the only revenue that is potentially at stake is that which comes from the sale of permanent licenses (e.g. content the consumer actually owns). The question then is, how many sales will the industry lose as a result of one consumer purchasing a permanent license from another consumer instead of from the industry? Is the market for "used" permanent licenses really going to be that much bigger than the market for used physical media was in the past? If so, then you have a problem. If not then I don't see an issue. My guess is that it will eventually be marginally bigger, but not enough to justify restricting consumers right to sell property they have purchased.

Bear in mind that permanent licenses do not hold their value indefinitely, either. While they may have less risk of degradation in the short term than physical media, they are no less suceptible to obsolescence. If I buy an SD copy of a movie today, the industry has no obligation to upgrade that copy to HD for free. Nor will they have to upgrade it to a 4K copy for free. So long as a better version becomes available in the future, they can continue selling the same content over an over again. Existing copies will lose their value because they will not be as good as the new version.

I don't know about you, but I doubt that I would be any more willing to take a risk on purchasing a "used" permanent license from somebody I don't know than purchasing used physical media from somebody I don't know. Generally, I only buy direct from retailer or from somebody I know. And even if I was willing to risk it, it really isn't that big of a hassle to purchase physical goods online and have them delivered today. The only advantage digital content really has for the consumer, in this case, is the speed of delivery. But that is a difference between physical media and digital content, not between digital content purchased from a retailer vs. digital content purchased 2nd hand.

Something the article doesn't address is how much it might be costing the industry in potential revenue from the sale of permanent licenses due to the fact that there isn't a Right of First Sale for digital content. How many sales are they potentially losing because people are not willing to pay full price for something that they can't sell at some point in the future?
many good points. I will touch a few of them. First the media has to be defined. Are we talking Cinema or Television media? Cinema profits are thru the box office, home sales are nice, but are referred to as a secondary income in the industry, even though these secondary sales have saved more then one persons job, the movie John Carter comes to mind. Television is paid for thru advertisement, the only exception there being PBS who is a combination of advertisement and public donations. When cinema content creators pitch a project two things happen, they figure out how to finance it, studio, bank, there own coin. Second, there own or a major distribution aka studio release. After all the above are satisfied and it is showing in theaters they bite nails till the one month box office receipts are released for the film. If that does poorly, they hold there breath for home sales. First purchase means everything in the cinema home industry. There has been talks about a "extended digital rights" purchase for second hand purchases of disk(s) that have Ultraviolet or other digital delivery means, however price is the stalling point here as there are those who want 100 percent for a second user license on a second hand purchase of the physical media. And there is also very clear wording that prohibits more than one digital copy per physical disk. This would have to be addressed as well. So as you can tell in cinema, home sales generate profits as much as the box office generated, but take a longer time to do this. This bottom line approach is further increased by digital right sales. In this digital scenario the burden is on the digital supplier, not the end consumer, as the supplier has to obtain the licenses for showing the content as well as the space to store it and make it available 24/7, so prices stay about the same in both digital and disk, with there corresponding rendering, SD or HD.

As for your mention of online video rentals and mail order, there is a big misconception that these services get the content at a "reduced rate" that is far from the truth. Amazon pays a premium price for the content it offers online as does Netflix streaming and rental operations. That is all content delivery not just digital or disk, both. Amazon makes penny's on the dollar for selling or renting you the rights to a movie, as you guessed the volume makes it worth while. I read an article not that long ago that used Amazon's digital service as a way to show for the first two months, Amazon is making no profit on there offerings, that the beginning of the third month is were it becomes profit heavy. Now think about that. First run movies get purchased first, not last. If you read into the fine print, Amazon has to make this available to all who purchase it. And so far they have done so. That does not mean at some future date they will. As someone who likes getting certain content in digital only, that sparks a real problem. If i loose or damage a disk it is my fault and loss.

Upgrading previous versions to HD has always been considered secondary income. This applies, going from DVD to Blu-Ray or SD, HD, UHD. I upgraded all my movies from VHS, BETA and Laser disk to DVD and now Blu-Ray and guess what, i paid the market price for it, no special offers. That's the way it is. you also have the right to not upgrade. I still own 215 titles on HD-DVD, that i will always own till i can't play them anymore and may or may not purchase a newer format of those title. It's not all roses.

The entire end user and rights of first sale have been debated to death in every court, statehouse and congress till it's blue in the face. What that little fine print tells you, is what you get, PERIOD.

Oh and Right of First Sale for digital goes to the content providers, Amazon, VUDU, etc. As a consumer you get digital viewing rights, not ownership, just the rights to watch it in a private, home use, non public viewing and of course not for profit.
CinemaAndy is offline  
Reply Networking, Media Servers & Content Streaming

Tags
frontpage

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off