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Giving Up on Blu-Ray: Why I Switched to The Cloud

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42K views 705 replies 172 participants last post by  CinemaAndy 
#1 · (Edited)


About a week ago, I decided to get rid of all my Blu-ray discs. It was not a large collection, only 110 titles. Still, the discs represent an investment of about $2000, and I bought most of them over the course the last 18 months. Although I've watched Blu-rays since the format first came out, I started buying them on a regular basis when I started writing comparisons of Blu-ray with online delivery formats here on AVS forum. A recent poll by Scott Wilkinson showed that three quarters of AVS members prefer to get their movies on Blu-ray. With over 1000 votes, it might not be a scientific poll, but it is indicative of how the broader AVS community feels about Blu-ray versus cloud-based HD movie formats. In past articles, whenever I suggested that the online-delivery formats come close to matching Blu-ray in overall quality, it has triggered a lot of debate. 
My Vudu HDX movie collection replaced my Blu-ray collection 

When I first started with the format comparisons, it was not uncommon to see a big difference between Blu-ray and online formats such as iTunes HD and Vudu HDX. But as time went by, the overall quality of those online delivery formats improved. It's not because of an increase in allotted bandwidth; the specs for iTunes HD and Vudu HDX are the same as they've been for the last few years. I believe it's because the content providers have improved the quality of their product. Ultimately, results matter—cloud-based HD movie formats now look very good, even on a large screen. In 2014, the main reason I continued to buy Blu-rays was for 3D. While I enjoy 3D on occasion, I don’t enjoy wearing glasses to experience it. Recently, several factors led me to a change of heart about watching movies in 3D on my Vizio M3D550KD, a 1080p, passive-3D, LED-edgelit LCD. The first disrupting factor was a two-month trial of a TV featuring Ultra-D glasses-free 3D; you can read about that experience in this thread. After spending those months watching 3D without having to wear glasses, I can't go back to watching my Vizio or any other TV that requires spectacles in order to experience the illusion of depth. The Ultra-D TV along with my (former) collection of 3D Blu-rays 

The second disrupting factor was my very recent purchase of a Samsung PN60F5300 plasma. For $799 (on sale), it offers 60 inches of plasma image quality—including the ability to calibrate color using 10-point grayscale controls. What it does not have is 3D. When I compare the experience of watching actual 3D on my Vizio versus 2D on the plasma, there's no question that the plasma wins out. Even a movie like Gravity benefited more from plasma's intrinsic deep blacks and high motion resolution than it did from its award-winning 3D special effects. Now, before you suggest that I should have purchased a plasma with 3D capabilities, I should mention that I bought the Vizio M3D550KD because I could not stand watching active 3D using shutter glasses. Prior to the Vizio, I owned a Panasonic plasma (VT30) that featured active 3D. As sharp as that VT30 was in full-HD 3D mode, it was also too dim to watch, and it suffered from crosstalk. It hardly matters what the problems were, because I accidentally broke the screen on that plasma—don't ask how, suffice to say it was my fault. The replacement for that panel was the Vizio; at the time, I found passive 3D on an LCD TV was much brighter and easier on the eyes. Also, I was so excited about 3D that I was willing to forgive many of the image-quality flaws of edgelit LCDs. Those factors came together in my decision to get rid of all my Blu-rays. Almost on a whim, I took my stack of discs down to the CEX store on South Street in Philadelphia and waited as the employee inspected and scanned each disc. After almost an hour, the deed was done, and I accepted a cash payment of $340 in exchange for my stack of discs. I had expected to get less out of the transaction, so I was happy with the result. Prior to stopping at CEX, I tried to sell the discs at a used movie/bookstore where the owner looked mortified that I wanted money for my collection. Given that, and the fact that Amazon was only offering a pittance in credit for the same titles, I was perfectly happy taking the money from what amounts to a glorified pawnshop. On June 3, 2014, 300: Rise of an Empire came out as a digital early release. The sequel to the R-rated blockbuster 300 is a completely ridiculous, exploitive, gratuitous, and violent movie full of in-your-face 3D special effects—it's the sort of movie I buy on 3D Blu-ray. This time, I looked at the options available on Vudu and decided to buy the combo pack that included the 2D and 3D versions in HDX format, which include special features. It was not cheap; after tax, it cost me $35. The 2D version looked and sounded great, with only a few banding artifacts creeping into deep shadows, but 99% of the time it looked fantastic. The 3D version of the movie was quite a surprise—it looked as good as any 3D Blu-ray I've seen, with nary an artifact to spoil the effect. 300: Rise of an Empire is available for online delivery—in 2D and 3D—with special features. 

I know that giving up Blu-rays won't work for many people—access to adequate bandwidth is a major issue in many areas, and some people feel that physical media offers more security—that a disc represents ownership and a license to a cloud-based product does not. I've read many comments along the lines of, "What happens if the cloud-based movie service goes out of business?" That's probably the most contentious aspect of my decision—are my UltraViolet-licensed titles going to be accessible forever? I don’t have a good answer for that, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.I fully agree with anyone who claims that Blu-ray currently offers the very best 1080p image quality that's available to consumers at a reasonable price. In my own comparisons, I've never seen an online format such as iTunes HD, Amazon HD, or Vudu HDX beat Blu-ray in terms of picture quality. Nevertheless, I've also seen those formats—and especially Vudu HDX—come incredibly close to Blu-ray's picture quality time after-time. The quality difference is no longer enough to keep me on the physical-disc side of the fence. I strongly prefer having my library readily available on multiple devices. In addition, before anyone even asks—I flatly refuse to rip Blu-rays. It's a shame that the laws are what they are, but that doesn’t mean I'm ready to break 'em. Going forward, I'll probably buy 3D Blu-rays when they go on sale. The price of 3D via online delivery is often higher than the Blu-ray version, and as I discovered, 3D Blu-rays retain at least a bit of resale value. Buying, then selling, 3D Blu-rays allows me to view a movie in 3D for half the cost of 3D on Vudu HDX, and I still end up with an UltraViolet license that I can redeem for a 2D HDX copy of the film. Is it the best of both worlds? It is for me, at least for now. When it comes to 2D movies, I'm considerably less motivated to buy Blu-ray in the future. I've grown comfortable with paying $15 for a license to an iTunes HD or Vudu HDX version of a movie. For me, the plusses outweigh the minuses. Part of what makes it work for me is that I already have fast Internet access, and my viewing habits don't put me at risk of exceeding my bandwidth cap. I fully acknowledge that adequate Internet bandwidth is a pre-requisite to successfully making the transition to cloud-based content delivery. For me, the time to make that switch has arrived. I'm sure that other AVS members will have a different take, so whether you think I'm crazy, impatient, savvy, or just plain dumb for selling off my Blu-rays, please chime in and let me know your thoughts on this controversial

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#103 ·
Blu-Ray disc dumping on the cusp of 4K seems a bit premature -- if we knew that Apple's entire iTunes library would somehow get a bump up in picture quality (rather than just smaller file sizes) with h.265, then there might be a case for it.


But with 4K, bigger screens and possibly, if LG gets its act together, 77 inch 4K OLEDs in the wings, wouldn't a true videophile want the best possible source to upscale? I'd have to see what a 4K iTunes upscale looks like vs. a Blu-Ray upscale before I got rid of a single disc. Maybe they'd be indistinguishable, who knows.


But that will be the acid test for Blu-Ray's future.


Given the huge backlog of movies that never made the leap from DVD to Blu-Ray, who can predict what will get remastered in 4K and to what degree of improvement? There are too many X factors with where the industry is headed to give up on the best picture source available.


My rule of thumb: if I'm buying it for home viewing on the VT50, Blu-Ray, but if my kids are going to watch it on an iPad on a plane, then iTunes.
 
#104 ·
What really strikes me is this. Mark has been a great contribution to AVS forum and now that he is brave enough to try downloading and streaming for all the right reasons, you all jump on him like a bunch of kids. I moved over to all digital last year and suggested to Mark to do the same, he was not convinced then. Now he has made the turn to digital and you all think he is a leper. I am so sorry for you prima donnas and your comments. Believe it or not you all are becoming obsolete and soon your opinions and expensive hobby will end up where it belongs. In the trash.
 
#106 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphinc  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/90#post_24816587


You better hope Net Neutrality doesn't disappear, you'll be missing those disc's.
 

I already pay the toll to get good speed. Net neutrality doesn't currently exist, except as a gentleman's code in a world of thugs. As it stands, I never have issues streaming, and I get it's because I pay so much, law or no law. If I downgrade, there are issues, even though the lower tiers promise more than enough bandwidth for HD streaming, they don't deliver.


I do concur though, fast and reliable internet is a requirement if you stream. On the other hand, it's not like I refuse to ever buy a Blu-ray again. For a really good movie, I'll get the disc—especially if it comes with a UV code.
 
#310 ·
Quote:Originally Posted by dolphinc 

You better hope Net Neutrality doesn't disappear, you'll be missing those disc's.


 
I already pay the toll to get good speed. Net neutrality doesn't currently exist, except as a gentleman's code in a world of thugs. As it stands, I never have issues streaming, and I get it's because I pay so much, law or no law. If I downgrade, there are issues, even though the lower tiers promise more than enough bandwidth for HD streaming, they don't deliver.

I do concur though, fast and reliable internet is a requirement if you stream. On the other hand, it's not like I refuse to ever buy a Blu-ray again. For a really good movie, I'll get the disc—especially if it comes with a UV code.

This is very similar to what I face where I am. I pay for the very top tier of service, so my ISP currently turns a blind eye to the fact that I regularly go over my allotted amount by 2-3 times every month. But, if I were to downgrade to a lesser tier that still advertises sufficient bandwidth for HD streaming, not only would I be getting crucified for exceeding my limit, but the promised speeds aren't really there consistently, and my service experience suffers.

I don't use UVVU to watch movies. But then, that hasn't stopped me from registering every UVVU code that comes with my new movies either.
 
#108 ·

Wow, a lot of venom - and all Mark did was give us his honest opinion....

 

So, my 3 cents FWIW:

1. It seems like comments about Mark deciding not to illegally rip his Blu-rays are inconsiderate.  There was a time when doing the right thing - that which is legal, for those that need an explanation - was to be applauded.  Kudos to Mark for abiding by copyright laws that we all agree are a giant pain.

2. Poking fun at his AV system?  C'mon, we should be better than that, folks. Many of us have darn nice systems and we enjoy the sweet nectar that is HiDef AV.  I'm sure Matt is similar, he's just switching to a different content distribution.

3. I found Matt's comments about sound quality being (mostly) a non-issue a bit surprising.  I'd expect a more noticeable difference.  Perhaps I've not tried out the best that the cloud has to offer.    
 

 

Me?  I'm an active 3D, Panny-Plasma, DTS-Master loving sorta guy, who mostly buys used 3D blu-rays.  

Though I appreciate Matt's perspective, I don't think I'll be following his lead on this one.  Excellent topic and discussion, thus far.
 
#109 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronManFan  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/90#post_24816595


Blu-Ray disc dumping on the cusp of 4K seems a bit premature -- if we knew that Apple's entire iTunes library would somehow get a bump up in picture quality (rather than just smaller file sizes) with h.265, then there might be a case for it.


But with 4K, bigger screens and possibly, if LG gets its act together, 77 inch 4K OLEDs in the wings, wouldn't a true videophile want the best possible source to upscale? I'd have to see what a 4K iTunes upscale looks like vs. a Blu-Ray upscale before I got rid of a single disc. Maybe they'd be indistinguishable, who knows.


But that will be the acid test for Blu-Ray's future.


Given the huge backlog of movies that never made the leap from DVD to Blu-Ray, who can predict what will get remastered in 4K and to what degree of improvement? There are too many X factors with where the industry is headed to give up on the best picture source available.


My rule of thumb: if I'm buying it for home viewing on the VT50, Blu-Ray, but if my kids are going to watch it on an iPad on a plane, then iTunes.

absolutely: blu ray when you care about reference quality, itunes rental when you never care about watching it again.
 
#110 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronManFan  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/90#post_24816595


Blu-Ray disc dumping on the cusp of 4K seems a bit premature -- if we knew that Apple's entire iTunes library would somehow get a bump up in picture quality (rather than just smaller file sizes) with h.265, then there might be a case for it.


But with 4K, bigger screens and possibly, if LG gets its act together, 77 inch 4K OLEDs in the wings, wouldn't a true videophile want the best possible source to upscale? I'd have to see what a 4K iTunes upscale looks like vs. a Blu-Ray upscale before I got rid of a single disc. Maybe they'd be indistinguishable, who knows.


But that will be the acid test for Blu-Ray's future.


Given the huge backlog of movies that never made the leap from DVD to Blu-Ray, who can predict what will get remastered in 4K and to what degree of improvement? There are too many X factors with where the industry is headed to give up on the best picture source available.


My rule of thumb: if I'm buying it for home viewing on the VT50, Blu-Ray, but if my kids are going to watch it on an iPad on a plane, then iTunes.
 

How is that not going to happen? Within one year, that's my prediction. And when (or before) it does, I expect Vudu to roll out its own upgraded format.
 
#111 ·
I still have the physical media for everyone of my ripped copies. Going your way is just one more step in accepting mediocrity and telling the manufacturers I don't need the best, good enough works. I would gladly follow the law if they would give me a byte for byte digital copy. There is a difference between compressed on the original. If you are going to settle, why participate in this hobby at all?
 
#112 ·
I prefer blu-ray over streaming but sometimes convenience wins out.


Lately when I stream movies I use I tune because it's usually a buck cheaper than vudu and IMO the pq is actually better than what I was getting with vudu hdx through my ps3.


Sound is my only real complaint with streaming. It's pretty good but br is a very noticeable improvement, we specially with action movies.
 
#113 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/90#post_24816671


I still have the physical media for everyone of my ripped copies. Going your way is just one more step in accepting mediocrity and telling the manufacturers I don't need the best, good enough works. I would gladly follow the law if they would give me a byte for byte digital copy. There is a difference between compressed on the original. If you are going to settle, why participate in this hobby at all?
 

Blu-ray video is also compressed. The "original" for any movie looks a fair bit better than Blu-ray. There is no requirement that you have to be dogmatic and obsessive about tiny differences in quality in order to enjoy home theater; but at the end of the day the real problem is people trying to exaggerate the differences in quality between discs and the best the could has to offer, when those differences really are quite minor.
 
#114 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nrc2112  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/90#post_24816598


I am so sorry for you prima donnas and your comments. Believe it or not you all are becoming obsolete and soon your opinions and expensive hobby will end up where it belongs. In the trash.

Those are pretty strong words. Mark knew full well what we was signing up for when he posted this thread. He tied himself to the whipping post for the good of discussion, same as when he made the thread about high end audio being obsolete (which that thread I agree with). Your posting on a website full of guys that still buy vinyl and CD's in a world where you can get an album on your phone in 2 minutes on a whim. So before you strike us all down and judge us for being critical of Mark remember what we're really on here for. The undisputed fact is that right blu-ray provides the ultimate home theater experience, everything else is just fighting for second. We're all discussing wether or not some of the baggage that comes with physical media is worth the performance edge.
 
#115 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nrc2112  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/90#post_24816598


What really strikes me is this. Mark has been a great contribution to AVS forum and now that he is brave enough to try downloading and streaming for all the right reasons, you all jump on him like a bunch of kids. I moved over to all digital last year and suggested to Mark to do the same, he was not convinced then. Now he has made the turn to digital and you all think he is a leper. I am so sorry for you prima donnas and your comments. Believe it or not you all are becoming obsolete and soon your opinions and expensive hobby will end up where it belongs. In the trash.
Well, I think that's a bit extreme. This OP has been around for a while so I'm quite sure he new what the reactions were going to be before they were even written. That sort of puzzles me as to why this thread exists in the first place. None the less, it is here and if the Op wishes to discontinue the admittedly somewhat shady practice of ripping BD's then hats off to him, but that will be done at a cost of quality. If that cost is reasonable to the OP then hey... great.


But to suggest the loss won't be there....

Silly.
 
#116 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/90#post_24816692


Blu-ray video is also compressed. The "original" for any movie looks a fair bit better than Blu-ray.

Irrelevant. We don't get to take the originals home. Our next best friend, the one we're allowed to take home, is BD


BD is the highest quality attainable by the average consumer.
 
#117 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/90#post_24816704

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrc2112  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/90#post_24816598


What really strikes me is this. Mark has been a great contribution to AVS forum and now that he is brave enough to try downloading and streaming for all the right reasons, you all jump on him like a bunch of kids. I moved over to all digital last year and suggested to Mark to do the same, he was not convinced then. Now he has made the turn to digital and you all think he is a leper. I am so sorry for you prima donnas and your comments. Believe it or not you all are becoming obsolete and soon your opinions and expensive hobby will end up where it belongs. In the trash.
Well, I think that's a bit extreme. This OP has been around for a while so I'm quite sure he new what the reactions were going to be before they were even written. That sort of puzzles me as to why this thread exists in the first place. None the less, it is here and if the Op wishes to discontinue the admittedly somewhat shady practice of ripping BD's then hats off to him, but that will be done at a cost of quality. If that cost is reasonable to the OP then hey... great.

But to suggest the loss won't be there....

Silly.
 

I suggested the loss was barely noticeable. I've written plenty of Blu-ray vs. streaming comparisons, I know exactly what's lost in the process. Just sayin'
 
#119 ·
Mark, sometimes I think your a glutton for punishment. Hats off to you for willingly taking this abuse, even some from me. I'm flying out of Philly tomorrow, maybe I'll hit up that pawn shop and scoop up some of your old BD's!
 
#120 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/90#post_24816737


I suggested the loss was barely noticeable. I've written plenty of Blu-ray vs. streaming comparisons, I know exactly what's lost in the process. Just sayin'
Well, you're certainly welcomed to suggest it's barely noticeable for YOU, but I'm not sure how you can possibly suggest that for some one else. As stated, I can clearly tell the difference.
 
#121 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/60#post_24815956


That's an excellent point with these types of services There is no promise that they won't fold, and all bets are off if they get bought by other complanies. If some one buys up comcast there is no obligation for the new company to honor old contracts or cloud space.


I've been down this road quite few times. Things change and sometimes the changes are not wanted or expected. My Boxee box is a perfect example of this. It was bought by Samsung who has completely discontinued it.

Boxee is a terrible comparison. When Samsung killed the Boxee, Netflix continued to exist. That was hardware.


Vudu is nothing more than a portal to UVVU (Ultraviolet), which is a consortium of studios, electronics manufacturers, retailers and others. It's not a business that will be bought, sold, or shut down. It's purpose is to create a new delivery system to replace physical media. These are all companies who have a vested interest in eliminating production, storage and transport of a physical product.
 
#122 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillcat  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/120#post_24816768


Boxee is a terrible comparison. When Samsung killed the Boxee, Netflix continued to exist. That was hardware.


Vudu is nothing more than a portal to UVVU (Ultraviolet), which is a consortium of studios, electronics manufacturers, retailers and others. It's not a business that will be bought, sold, or shut down. It's purpose is to create a new delivery system to replace physical media. These are all companies who have a vested interest in eliminating production, storage and transport of a physical product.

Well, it was a software too, but the point is anything can happen. When Avid bought out Pinnacle they killed Avid Liquid (and those who bought the Avid liquid hardware were left floating dead in the water) with no warning. When Time warner bought AOL there were all sorts of unwelcome changes. This stuff happens pretty much any day of the week and the consumers caught in the middle are most often completely forgotten about
 
#123 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/90#post_24816756

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/90#post_24816737


I suggested the loss was barely noticeable. I've written plenty of Blu-ray vs. streaming comparisons, I know exactly what's lost in the process. Just sayin'
Well, you're certainly welcomed to suggest it's barely noticeable for YOU, but I'm not sure how you can possibly suggest that for some one else. As stated, I can clearly tell the difference.
 

I'm curious if you've made a recent attempt to really scrutinize the difference? I've definitely gone through that effort. Also, I've seen some awfully nice TVs, projectors, home theaters, and screening rooms. There's only so much you can get out of a Blu-ray, and Vudu HDX comes really darned close.


The world of AV is full of people making mountains out of molehills. Every slight difference in quality is exaggerated, that's par for the course. If you wind up obsessing over those differences, I can see how they might become magnified. Over in the world of audio, the argument is whether 24/96 offers an audible advantage versus 16/44, and when you start testing people in a rigorous, scientific manner what emerges is that the difference is exaggerated at best; often it's imperceptible.
 
#124 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/120#post_24816800


The world of AV is full of people making mountains out of molehills. Every slight difference in quality is exaggerated, that's par for the course

I couldn't agree more... Monster cables... gold plated rca jacks.... blah blah blah.


I'm not really one to fall for that rubbish. What I will tell you though is that a good DTS HD Ma soundtrack makes my viewing experience much more dramatic as compared to plain old DD. Sound is clearer, and each of the channels are much more defined.
 
#125 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic  /t/1535201/giving-up-on-blu-ray-why-i-switched-to-the-cloud/120#post_24816800


I'm curious if you've made a recent attempt to really scrutinize the difference? I've definitely gone through that effort. Also, I've seen some awfully nice TVs, projectors, home theaters, and screening rooms. There's only so much you can get out of a Blu-ray, and Vudu HDX comes really darned close.



The world of AV is full of people making mountains out of molehills. Every slight difference in quality is exaggerated, that's par for the course. If you wind up obsessing over those differences, I can see how they might become magnified. Over in the world of audio, the argument is whether 24/96 offers an audible advantage versus 16/44, and when you start testing people in a rigorous, scientific manner what emerges is that the difference is exaggerated at best; often it's imperceptible.

I have used Netflix, Vudu and Amazon Prime. This is a nice test for you (and others) compare streaming of


Matrix

Avatar (extended if possible)

Lord of the Rings (extended if possible of any of the 3)


with Blue Ray disc.


If you can't tell the difference of audio, then either your system is suspect or your ears. As for image, other than the Matrix, the other ones far far better when played from Blue Ray disc. There are other movies which prove the point that when Blue Ray is done "right" it certainly can easily be distinguishable from streaming with respect to audio and video. I base this on my own testing with guests. It always seems unanimous with certain movies.
 
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