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post #1 of 91 Old 06-21-2014, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Wiring House? How many outlets for each room?

Ok.. So I am trying to come up with a wiring diagram for a new construction house that we are building.. Besides all the home automation wiring and speaker wiring I want to wire the house for ethernet.. I was talking it over with some friends and they said that I should just do 1 ethernet run to each room and then just put a switch inside the room to get more outlets... I was under the impression that the switch will result in less signal strength.. The issue is that if I wire the house the way I want I will end up with over 30 ethernet runs in the house.. For our loft area alone we need 6-8 ethernet outlets.. (Xbox, playstation, wii, smart tv, blu ray, etc).. Still have to discuss overall plans with the electrician that the builder uses but wanted t oget a jump start on this.
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post #2 of 91 Old 06-21-2014, 09:47 PM
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Switches are fine, no issue in a home environment. I would look at the layout of the various rooms and place outlets strategically, you don't want wires running across doorways or wrapping around the room. 2 or 3 might be needed in most rooms. Just be sure to label them well.
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post #3 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 08:58 AM
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Switches are a band-aid to fix an earlier error!

Cat [5e|6] wire is cheap, fast, secure and can be used for multiple purposes. While the walls are open, run wire to every location you think you might ever want a connection. But don't connect it all. Connect the lines you know you're going to use; make sure the rest are well labelled and hide them behind blank covers. It is quite easy to punch down a couple more lines when you decide you need them in the future.

Craig
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post #4 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by fearthisinc View Post
I was under the impression that the switch will result in less signal strength..
Not true at all. Indeed commercial installs at schools, auditoriums.. etc rely heavily on switches. In fact most any router has a minimum of 4 ports and that is basically a switch.

It's the way I do it at home as well. I have one cat6 to each room and if I need more in a room I add a switch.
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post #5 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pvr4Craig View Post
Switches are a band-aid to fix an earlier error!

Cat [5e|6] wire is cheap, fast, secure and can be used for multiple purposes. While the walls are open, run wire to every location you think you might ever want a connection. But don't connect it all. Connect the lines you know you're going to use; make sure the rest are well labelled and hide them behind blank covers. It is quite easy to punch down a couple more lines when you decide you need them in the future.

Craig
I had figured run all the ethernet I want, but again the problem is that eventually all the ethernet points will be used.. Right now, yes 2 of the bedrooms in the house will be empty (planning for kids) so I will have some unused ports, but eventually there will be kids in the room and they will be used.. So one day or another I am going to need to wire them all up.. It just seems that all the switches that can handle excessive amounts of ports are all highly expensive.. What kind of switch would best be used in my scenario? Are all switches the same?
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post #6 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by fearthisinc View Post
Are all switches the same?
The really big commercial switches (64... 128... slots) do provide some boost with ram and such, but for the home owner the smaller 8 and 16 port switches are all pretty much the same
Of course you have the gigabyte switches and the 10/100. You want the gigabyte switch. I seriously doubt you will need more than 4 ports per room (and I do have kids), with exception to your main viewing area. I have a 4 port switch in all the rooms except for the main viewing area which requires an 8 port switch. I have full gigabyte connections between my storage and all my equipment and have never had issues.

Last edited by bigbarney; 06-22-2014 at 12:10 PM.
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post #7 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Pvr4Craig View Post
Switches are a band-aid to fix an earlier error!

Cat [5e|6] wire is cheap, fast, secure and can be used for multiple purposes. While the walls are open, run wire to every location you think you might ever want a connection. But don't connect it all.

Craig
Switches are used (BIG switches) in just about every commercial install there is. Hundreds of connections are used in schools and offices and they all lead to a switch somewhere along the line. Switches are not a bandaid solution, but rather an every day occurrence in the commercial industry. Personal homes are now becoming that way as well, and it's usually the personal home owner who completely misunderstands the importance a switch plays and how it works. What do you think a 4 port wireless router is? Among other things... it is indeed a SWITCH.

Feel free to wire ALL the rooms AND connect to the switch. It's done all the time.
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post #8 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by fearthisinc View Post
I had figured run all the ethernet I want, but again the problem is that eventually all the ethernet points will be used.. Right now, yes 2 of the bedrooms in the house will be empty (planning for kids) so I will have some unused ports, but eventually there will be kids in the room and they will be used.. So one day or another I am going to need to wire them all up.. It just seems that all the switches that can handle excessive amounts of ports are all highly expensive.. What kind of switch would best be used in my scenario? Are all switches the same?
If _all_ your ethernet points are going to be used...you aren't planning enough of them!! Not being facetious, in many rooms, there are a couple or three ways to organize the furniture. Depending on placement of doors and so forth, you may want ethernet drops on 2 or even 3 different walls to accommodate alternate room layouts. Connect the outlets you plan to use and leave the other one(s) ready for the future.

Craig

Last edited by Pvr4Craig; 06-22-2014 at 12:50 PM. Reason: typo
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post #9 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bigbarney View Post
Switches are used (BIG switches) in just about every commercial install there is. Hundreds of connections are used in schools and offices and they all lead to a switch somewhere along the line. Switches are not a bandaid solution, but rather an every day occurrence in the commercial industry. Personal homes are now becoming that way as well, and it's usually the personal home owner who completely misunderstands the importance a switch plays and how it works. What do you think a 4 port wireless router is? Among other things... it is indeed a SWITCH.

Feel free to wire ALL the rooms AND connect to the switch. It's done all the time.
I put a smiley on my post--where is yours?

I am well aware of home and commercial networks. The main point for a home network is ease of use and reliability. Most companies have an IT support person who keeps it all running. You, me and the OP fill that role in our homes so let's minimize the number of devices that can fail. Small switches tend to have ultra-cheap wall warts powering them. Plus they are often behind furniture so you can't even check the status easily. And every one adds to your phantom electrical load.

Home run all your network lines so they all connect to one switch. Put in a UPS to keep the network up (modem, switch, Wifi access point, etc) across power glitches. When/if you upgrade, you've got one job to do instead of multiple jobs.

IMHO

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post #10 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Pvr4Craig View Post
I put a smiley on my post--where is yours?
Sorry. I could have sworn it was a wink


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Small switches tend to have ultra-cheap wall warts powering them.
Really?
And all this time the commercial industry has been wrong on their sub switches and I have been blind to the warts behind the multiple 4 and 8 port switches in my house for the last 2 years.

So let's get this straight... we're supposed to run multiple cat 6 to each room... maybe 4 or 5 of them and then connect them all up to one central switch? Then when we have to expand we're supposed to rip out the walls again and add more cat6 so that we can run that off of that one switch too? This is the way it's really supposed to be? What BTW are we supposed to do with all the cat6 cable we don't happen to be using at the moment... wrap it up as best we can and stuff it under the carpet?

Just about EVERY household as at least one "small" 4 port switch in it (a router). Do these have warts too?
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post #11 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pvr4Craig View Post
If _all_ your ethernet points are going to be used...you aren't planning enough of them!! Not being facetious, in many rooms, there are a couple or three ways to organize the furniture. Depending on placement of doors and so forth, you may want ethernet drops on 2 or even 3 different walls to accommodate alternate room layouts. Connect the outlets you plan to use and leave the other one(s) ready for the future.

Craig
I understand what you are saying and it is exactly the point I am trying to make.. For example in the one spare bedroom I planned for the following:

South Wall = closet and entry door so no ethernet
North Wall = Two side by side double hung windows ..
East Wall = 2 ethernet ports and where I would envision the bed's headboard going up against
West Wall = 2 ethernet ports where TV would go

The above scenario gives you ethernet ports on each side of the room in case you want to move furniture, however the two ports by the television would likely be used for a smart tv and/or video console combination.. So now the two on the other wall would be needed for wired ethernet for a laptop or other device.. So essentially all ports would be used for one purpose or another..
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post #12 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Pvr4Craig View Post
Switches are a band-aid to fix an earlier error!

Cat [5e|6] wire is cheap, fast, secure and can be used for multiple purposes. While the walls are open, run wire to every location you think you might ever want a connection. But don't connect it all. Connect the lines you know you're going to use; make sure the rest are well labelled and hide them behind blank covers. It is quite easy to punch down a couple more lines when you decide you need them in the future.

Craig
Sorry disagree. In my main viewing area I have 8 items that require network connections --should I really run 8 wires when 1 will work just as well? You must own stock in a CAT5/6 business....
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post #13 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 06:23 PM
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...So let's get this straight... we're supposed to run multiple cat 6 to each room... maybe 4 or 5 of them and then connect them all up to one central switch?
Yes. The OP's house isn't built yet. Wire is cheap. Search this site and you'll find lots of people saying "I wish I'd put in more wire when the walls were open". Ergo, put in LOTS of wire. The OP mentioned he is wiring for home automation and speakers. (Not security?) In the future, he may want to use some of the Category cables for those purposes.

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Then when we have to expand we're supposed to rip out the walls again and add more cat6 so that we can run that off of that one switch too? This is the way it's really supposed to be?
Is this how you want to be?

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What BTW are we supposed to do with all the cat6 cable we don't happen to be using at the moment... wrap it up as best we can and stuff it under the carpet?
You missed the part about a blank face plate?

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Just about EVERY household as at least one "small" 4 port switch in it (a router). Do these have warts too?
http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/W/wall-wart.html

Hint: 44 million hits for "wall wart failed".

Craig
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post #14 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 06:40 PM
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Sorry disagree. In my main viewing area I have 8 items that require network connections --should I really run 8 wires when 1 will work just as well? You must own stock in a CAT5/6 business....
OK, there is a limit--I'd say you've hit it.

The OP was talking about a single cable per room. In that scenario, if you ever want to reconfigure the room, you're stuck trying to trail a patch cable around the perimeter of the room to the new switch location. Can we at least agree that is sub-optimal?

Cocoontech developed a pretty good guide for wiring considersations:

http://cocoontech.com/forums/files/d...new-house-101/

(143kB Zip containing Word and Excel documents.)

Craig
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post #15 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 08:03 PM
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OK, there is a limit--I'd say you've hit it.

Okay. So only after the 'limit' we're supposed to start adding sub switches? Doesn't that defeat the hundreds of feet of cable already laid out in your little plan?

Don't answer that. Obviously I'm being sarcastic.



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Hint: 44 million hits for "wall wart failed".
And I get 27 million hits when I search "saw space alien"... so what is your point???
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post #16 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by fearthisinc View Post
I was talking it over with some friends and they said that I should just do 1 ethernet run to each room and then just put a switch inside the room to get more outlets... I was under the impression that the switch will result in less signal strength..
look guy...
You've heard from 3 different people now that your operation will be more efficient with a single line and a switch in each room. The commercial industry does it this way. I've done it (that includes alarm system and automation) and it works fine. But hey.... if you want to create a spaghetti mess of redundant and unnecessary cat5/6 cable all over your own house, then who am I to say you shouldn't.
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post #17 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Pvr4Craig View Post
The OP mentioned he is wiring for home automation and speakers. (Not security?) In the future, he may want to use some of the Category cables for those purposes.
My house is wired for automation (heat, AC, webcams, and lights) and I am also fully alarmed (doors, windows, motion, flood alert, furnace failure, hot tub low temp warning, smoke and fire). I get a text message anytime something is triggered. I even get a text message when some one rings my doorbell. My alarm works over internet and is fully controllable via cell phone, computer and/or tablet.

One line per room and a switch works fine.
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Are all plans bullet proof.. Considering you have not mentioned wireless, I would wager your children will graduate form Carnegie Institute of Technology, go work for Juniper Networks and figure out why Googling
"UHF killing honey bee" returned on 2014-06-22_235921
About 3,540,000 results (0.31 seconds)

I'm in for one per room in a designated pipe with a draw string left in the pipe.
You know what they say about phantom power, and air leaking through your home's envelope.

Have fun and pow wow with your electrician. Make some babies and get some lawn gnomes
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post #19 of 91 Old 06-22-2014, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Pvr4Craig View Post
OK, there is a limit--I'd say you've hit it.

The OP was talking about a single cable per room. In that scenario, if you ever want to reconfigure the room, you're stuck trying to trail a patch cable around the perimeter of the room to the new switch location. Can we at least agree that is sub-optimal?

Cocoontech developed a pretty good guide for wiring considersations:

http://cocoontech.com/forums/files/d...new-house-101/

(143kB Zip containing Word and Excel documents.)

Craig
Did you not read my original post?

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Switches are fine, no issue in a home environment. I would look at the layout of the various rooms and place outlets strategically, you don't want wires running across doorways or wrapping around the room. 2 or 3 might be needed in most rooms. Just be sure to label them well.
Isn't that exactly what you suggested? I stand by my original post.
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post #20 of 91 Old 06-23-2014, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Pvr4Craig View Post
The OP was talking about a single cable per room. In that scenario, if you ever want to reconfigure the room, you're stuck trying to trail a patch cable around the perimeter of the room to the new switch location. Can we at least agree that is sub-optimal?
Installing outlets on each wall is a very romantic notion, but we have done that with power outlets for many years, and we STILL end up running to the store at some point down the road for an extension cord. Why? Because you can never cover enough bases during the planning phase for an outlet on each wall to actually work the way you want it. Unfortunately with power extension cords, code prevents us from running them under the baseboard. There is no such code for cat5/6 cable.

You're much better off hanging the drywall 1/2 inch off the floor and running your line inside that cavity behind the baseboard. This way you can pinpoint EXACTLY where you need cables to pop out at anytime, and change it at anytime. If you stick an outlet on the wall, you're stuck with it and any plans thereafter will have to include some piece of furniture as a cover as an ugly cord exits the wall. You're also stuck leaving some kind of gap bewtween the wall and that piece of furnature to make room for the cord coming out of the wall.

Not very good planning.
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post #21 of 91 Old 06-23-2014, 05:05 AM
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...Isn't that exactly what you suggested? I stand by my original post.
Sorry, I was replying to post #12 ; didn't refer back to post #2 .

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post #22 of 91 Old 06-23-2014, 05:18 AM
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look guy...
You've heard from 3 different people now that your operation will be more efficient with a single line and a switch in each room. The commercial industry does it this way. I've done it (that includes alarm system and automation) and it works fine. But hey.... if you want to create a spaghetti mess of redundant and unnecessary cat5/6 cable all over your own house, then who am I to say you shouldn't.
Really? Still sticking with a single line per room? And if you have to cross doorways...?

Is the "spaghetti mess" the crux of your argument? You object to the central wiring cabinet/closet/whatever? Because a blank faceplate with wire behind it is pretty neat. Unused wires at the home-run location are just labelled and coiled. Why is that a problem?

One line per room for new construction is BAD advice. Just because you're pushy and post a lot doesn't make it any better.

Craig
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post #23 of 91 Old 06-23-2014, 05:36 AM
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Installing outlets on each wall is a very romantic notion, but we have done that with power outlets for many years, and we STILL end up running to the store at some point down the road for an extension cord. Why? Because you can never cover enough bases during the planning phase for an outlet on each wall to actually work the way you want it. Unfortunately with power extension cords, code prevents us from running them under the baseboard. There is no such code for cat5/6 cable.
So, with one hand you acknowledge that multiple outlets are an accepted standard but with the other you say don't bother because you won't get enough? The OP is planning ahead before his house is built--I think he is already far ahead of you.

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You're much better off hanging the drywall 1/2 inch off the floor and running your line inside that cavity behind the baseboard. This way you can pinpoint EXACTLY where you need cables to pop out at anytime, and change it at anytime. If you stick an outlet on the wall, you're stuck with it and any plans thereafter will have to include some piece of furniture as a cover as an ugly cord exits the wall. You're also stuck leaving some kind of gap bewtween the wall and that piece of furnature to make room for the cord coming out of the wall.

Not very good planning.
Your solution to ugly cables is an ugly gap between the floor and wall--all the way around the room?? I guess that could work (if you're not married). Except for those darn doorways. Or are you going to leave your door trim flapping 1/2 inch off the drywall so you can stuff wires in there, too? Sheesh.

And there are much better solutions for jacks. Random example:


Craig

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post #24 of 91 Old 06-23-2014, 05:56 AM
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Your solution to ugly cables is an ugly gap between the floor and wall--all the way around the room?? I guess that could work (if you're not married). Except for those darn doorways. Or are you going to leave your door trim flapping 1/2 inch off the drywall so you can stuff wires in there, too? Sheesh.
Oh dear. Clearly you have no building experience. Leaving a 1/2 inch gap between the drywall and the floor is an accepted building method, particularly in basements where the drywall can wick up moisture form the concrete. That 1/2 inch gap can be extended around doors as well

The baseboard goes OVER THE GAP. You end up with a hollow and UNSEEN cavity BEHIND the baseboard.
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Oh dear. Clearly you have no building experience. Leaving a 1/2 inch gap between the drywall and the floor is an accepted building method, particularly in basements where the drywall can wick up moisture form the concrete. That 1/2 inch gap can be extended around doors as well

The baseboard goes OVER THE GAP. You end up with a hollow and UNSEEN cavity BEHIND the baseboard.
So you're going to drill in and out of the baseboard and fish the wires between the holes? That's a lovely clean solution. </sarcasm> Let's see a picture of this in practice. Maybe one with two or more lines.

Is it coincidental that you keep skipping over the problem with doors? And the fact that Cat 6 can be used for all kinds of other uses? Aren't those "one category cable per room blinders" getting a bit uncomfortable?

Craig
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post #26 of 91 Old 06-23-2014, 07:07 AM
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If your house is still under construction, always run more than one wire, in fact it is cheaper to run 5 than it is to go back later and run another(especially in a multi-floor home). During construction a nail could go through one, when they put up the sheetrock they may sever a line while cutting out the wall boxes, etc. I have seen all sorts of things happen during construction, it is never a bad thing to have extra. I have been in the home A/V and automation business for nearly a decade and I have never thought having less wires was a good thing. In fact, I run all video over cat6 or shielded cat5 instead of HMDI, you can't run that through a switch(except with very expensive equipment). Switches are fine in moderation, but I wouldn't put one in every room, its bad design and it can create bottlenecks in your network. By all means, if you have an area where you need 8 devices connected, put in a switch(but still run more than one wire), but don't run a single wire everywhere and add switches to compensate. Also, do not daisy-chain several switches.

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Originally Posted by bigbarney View Post
look guy...
You've heard from 3 different people now that your operation will be more efficient with a single line and a switch in each room. The commercial industry does it this way. I've done it (that includes alarm system and automation) and it works fine. But hey.... if you want to create a spaghetti mess of redundant and unnecessary cat5/6 cable all over your own house, then who am I to say you shouldn't.
I can guarantee you the commerical industry runs more than a single line, in fact I know because that is the environment I work in now, we pull 4 any time we need to pull 1.

I pulled 7 wires to each room of my house, and that was a retrofit; 3 cat6, 2 shielded cat5, coax and 22/4 for control. Anything not needed was left in the wall, and the "spagehetti mess" is contained in a 48" panel in the wall of my equipment closet, anytime I need another I pull one through and into the rack. In all, nearly 100 wires including speaker wire, cameras and security control.

To the OP, if a professional is doing the installation they should know better than to run a single line. If you are doing it youself, do yourself a favor and run at least 3 cat6, I can nearly guarantee someone will damage at least one during construction. I hope everything goes well for you, and keep us updated.
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post #27 of 91 Old 06-23-2014, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Pvr4Craig View Post
So you're going to drill in and out of the baseboard and fish the wires between the holes? That's a lovely clean solution. </sarcasm> Let's see a picture of this in practice. Maybe one with two or more lines.

Is it coincidental that you keep skipping over the problem with doors? And the fact that Cat 6 can be used for all kinds of other uses? Aren't those "one category cable per room blinders" getting a bit uncomfortable?

Craig
You don't "drill" any baseboard and I have already addressed the issue of doors and windows... but I'll do it ONCE AGAIN. That 1/2 inch gap is also left under the casing around the doors and windows.

Anywhere you need a cable to pop out you file an 1/8 inch groove on the underside of the baseboard. If you change your mind at a later date and decide to move the cable, that groove goes completely unnoticed.

If you use this method then what you essentially do is create an infinitely adjustable and totally hidden wire chase around the COMPLETE circumference of the room and are not in anyway restricted to where the jacks are. That wire chase IN ADDITION to CAT can also be used for speaker wire, and/or tv cable.

But hey.... jacks on every wall is a very romantic notion. They even look kind of pretty too!
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post #28 of 91 Old 06-23-2014, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by trab37 View Post



I pulled 7 wires to each room of my house, and that was a retrofit; 3 cat6, 2 shielded cat5, coax and 22/4 for control. Anything not needed was left in the wall, and the "spagehetti mess" is contained in a 48" panel in the wall of my equipment closet, anytime I need another I pull one through and into the rack. In all, nearly 100 wires including speaker wire, cameras and security control.
All I can say to that is.... what a waste and restriction.
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post #29 of 91 Old 06-23-2014, 08:22 AM
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I went through this a year ago. My initial plan was a lot of cable runs in each room. That ended up being extremely expensive. Unless you are doing it yourself (and the builder allows it) it will be expensive. What I decided was 1 drop per room except the kitchen, morning room (sitting room on the back of the house) and living/dining rooms. The way I looked at it the only time I needed full gigabit was going into my office where the NAS was and behind the TV where a streaming box would be. EVERYTHING else can use wireless. The only time I need full gigabit is copying files up to the nas (only happens from the office) and streaming local media files (wireless sucks for that). Everything else can use wireless. Gaming, streaming music, and general laptop usage in any room in the house can all use wireless. Now after being in the home for over a year my thoughts have proven correct. I've never needed anything more than wireless-N in all the rooms except the office and for the streaming box. Behind the TV I have 2 network drops but only use 1 with a 5 port switch for the various devices. Up in the office I actually have 2 network drops, i only use 1 of them also and have the wireless router up there. I don't get wireless in the basement but the basement also isn't finished so when that time comes the network panel is down in the basement so it'll be easy to add more network runs down there and tie it into the rest. We have FIOS for internet and DirecTV for our tv service.

We don't have a home phone (use cell phones), security system is wired and that is completely separate. Coax is 2 runs to every room on opposite major walls for flexibility, but we only have 1 tv at the moment. Wired connections are nice but they absolutely are NOT needed for every device. Not once have I wished that I pulled more cable into the wall.

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post #30 of 91 Old 06-23-2014, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney View Post
All I can say to that is.... what a waste and restriction.
Not a waste at all, I use at least 3 of them at every location and have extra for future use with plenty of service loop.

Not a restriction in any way, I designed the scheme to fit the construction and use of my home and everything is in its proper place with flexibility for future use.
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