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post #1 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quick home network wiring question

SO I have just purchased a gigabit 8 port switch that I am going to put near my av rack in the basement right beside my modem. I currently use my airport extreme as the hub, and want to pull all lines from it and use the switch instead. My question is, I will have one wire coming from the modem to the switch where all my av equipment will be hooked up directly to the switch, as well as a NAS that I plan to purchase. The last connection will still be a single cat6 to the airport extreme to do my wireless. Is there any negative to doing it this way? Will everything still talk to each other correctly? Or should I have a single wire direct from modem to airport like I have now, and the wire the switch in on the other side of the airport extreme?

My thoughts lead me to believe the former would work better, but I have never used a switch before, and having the airport being just another "peripheral" on the switch I don't know if everything will still talk to each other wirelessly this way. For example, I want to control volume via an iphone app on my AVR, the request hits the router wirelessly, travels 'wired' to the switch, where the switch knows what to do with it and gets it to the AVR via its wired connection, right?

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post #2 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 08:44 AM
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Generally you want to go Modem->AirPort->Switch, though you don't mention your modem or what its capabilities are. You have the option of attaching your hardwired devices to either the remaining ports on the AirPort or the switch. The AirPort does several things that you need - it constructs a local private domain for your home behind the router, assigns IP addresses via DHCP, routes DNS and web requests to the Internet, and acts as a firewall. It makes these services available for both wired and wireless connections. It is the intelligent hub of your home network. A consumer level switch is just a dumb fanning mechanism and should generally be hooked up downstream from the router.
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post #3 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 08:52 AM
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+1

The Airport Extreme is a good router, I would not bypass it in that manner.
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post #4 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 08:53 AM
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^^Well sort of correct. Switches are not dumb, hubs are dumb. Switches switch packets intelligently via destination address.

Now as to the OP's questions:

The way this works is modem-->router-->switch--->end nodes (clients). Things get blurred because the modem can contain a modem, router, wireless ap, and switch all in one box. What most home users have come to know as a router is really a router, wireless ap, and switch all in one box. The apple airport extreme is a router, wireless ap, and switch.

Assuming your cable or DSL modem is just a modem and not a router and switch your setup will be as follows:

modem-->airport extreme-->switch-->end devices
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post #5 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
SO I have just purchased a gigabit 8 port switch that I am going to put near my av rack in the basement right beside my modem. I currently use my airport extreme as the hub, and want to pull all lines from it and use the switch instead. My question is, I will have one wire coming from the modem to the switch where all my av equipment will be hooked up directly to the switch, as well as a NAS that I plan to purchase. The last connection will still be a single cat6 to the airport extreme to do my wireless. Is there any negative to doing it this way? Will everything still talk to each other correctly? Or should I have a single wire direct from modem to airport like I have now, and the wire the switch in on the other side of the airport extreme?

My thoughts lead me to believe the former would work better, but I have never used a switch before, and having the airport being just another "peripheral" on the switch I don't know if everything will still talk to each other wirelessly this way. For example, I want to control volume via an iphone app on my AVR, the request hits the router wirelessly, travels 'wired' to the switch, where the switch knows what to do with it and gets it to the AVR via its wired connection, right?
the way I have set it up with cable modems and Uverse RG is thus: cable modem or RG -> Airport > cat 5e cable > gig-e switch > all other internal devices in your rack or the house. The airports usually have a "Internet" port and some plain ethernet ports. I usually configure the modems and/or RG to be Passthrough and set up the firewall on the airport. good luck :-)
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post #6 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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The airport extreme is the wireless router, and hub right now, but it only has 3 wired outs and I need at least 6 for the NAS and all the stuff in the AV rack. Right now, it is not in the best spot really and I want to move it out of the corner of the house where it is to improve coverage all over the house. the modem is a cable co. offering i just upgraded to that should be good for up to 300mb service as they continue to upgrade the lines and availability. It is located right next to the AV rack, so I was hoping to come directly out of that to the switch where I could then wire to the NAS and AV equipment, then run a 50-60ft line to the airport extreme wireless router and locate it elsewhere and get better wireless coverage.

If I need to run cable modem to Airport at end of long run, then airport all the way back to the switch by the modem and hook up that way, I guess that is an option too...just requires one more wire to run that way.

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post #7 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 09:04 AM
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Ok, first you are located in the U.S.. I'm not aware of any cable providers serving 300Mbps to the home market. Are you certain of this? That's a huge pipe. I'm guessing you probably mean 30Mbps.

Your airport extreme has a three port switch, it's not a hub. All you need to do is use the Ethernet cable that is running to your home theater and plug it into the new switch's uplink port. Plug the rest of your home theater connected devices into the new switch. You are done.
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post #8 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjt5282 View Post
the way I have set it up with cable modems and Uverse RG is thus: cable modem or RG -> Airport > cat 5e cable > gig-e switch > all other internal devices in your rack or the house. The airports usually have a "Internet" port and some plain ethernet ports. I usually configure the modems and/or RG to be Passthrough and set up the firewall on the airport. good luck :-)
I am going to be doing something similar in my new home at the end of the month, I'll have verizon fios, their equipment (modem, ap, switch) is all in one. I know from the past that the wireless transmission is horrid on their router so I was considering purchasing a UniFi AC AP for my wireless transmission rather than the Fios equipment. I then want to use a switch to feed all of the ethernet jacks in my house (8 of them). Any recommendations on switches and how i should setup all of this to maximize my thru put?
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post #9 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FX4 View Post
Ok, first you are located in the U.S.. I'm not aware of any cable providers serving 300Mbps to the home market. Are you certain of this? That's a huge pipe. I'm guessing you probably mean 30Mbps.

Your airport extreme has a three port switch, it's not a hub. All you need to do is use the Ethernet cable that is running to your home theater and plug it into the new switch's uplink port. Plug the rest of your home theater connected devices into the new switch. You are done.
It is not currently 300mbps, only 60 (heh), but they sent me the new modem saying it would be capable up to 300 as they continue to upgrade the service over several years. The modem is in fact JUST a modem, not other outputs, just the single ethernet cable out, which goes at this point to router internet input. I will use a single output from the airport to run back to the AV rack and utilize the switch there. Thanks for your assistance, this helped tremendously.

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post #10 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 10:15 AM
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Assuming your cable or DSL modem is just a modem and not a router and switch your setup will be as follows:

modem-->airport extreme-->switch-->end devices
^^ This.
Long cables, well long properly terminated ones under 100 meters / 328 feet between these devices will not impact performance.


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post #11 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 10:20 AM
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It is not currently 300mbps, only 60 (heh), but they sent me the new modem saying it would be capable up to 300 as they continue to upgrade the service over several years. The modem is in fact JUST a modem
This is DOCSIS 3 standard.
Consider buying your own. Your cable co likely charges you $4 or up a month for that box you can buy a good Motorola sb6121 for $63 on Amazon or the 8 channel bonding sb6141 for $85.
You get a great reliable modem and a quick payback. Another way to save a few $ on the cable bill.


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post #12 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I had the 6121 beforehand, but they told me they couldn't allow the 60mbps service unless I used their modem. More than likely lies, but they sent it to me for free, and there is no rental charge on the bill, so it doesn't really bother me one bit. I get all the speed they promised finally, so I am still happy

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post #13 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
The airport extreme is the wireless router, and hub right now, but it only has 3 wired outs and I need at least 6 for the NAS and all the stuff in the AV rack. Right now, it is not in the best spot really and I want to move it out of the corner of the house where it is to improve coverage all over the house. the modem is a cable co. offering i just upgraded to that should be good for up to 300mb service as they continue to upgrade the lines and availability. It is located right next to the AV rack, so I was hoping to come directly out of that to the switch where I could then wire to the NAS and AV equipment, then run a 50-60ft line to the airport extreme wireless router and locate it elsewhere and get better wireless coverage.

If I need to run cable modem to Airport at end of long run, then airport all the way back to the switch by the modem and hook up that way, I guess that is an option too...just requires one more wire to run that way.
Another option would be to leave all the equipment where it is and run a long ethernet cable to a more central location and install a wireless access point, the Airport Express basestation would work well for this if you like the Apple gear. Asus also makes a good AP.
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post #14 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by FX4 View Post
^^Well sort of correct. Switches are not dumb, hubs are dumb. Switches switch packets intelligently via destination address.
While clearly accurate, I think that subtlety may be lost on the OP.

I agree with FX4 and others, though - you need to understand what the cable company gave you. Comcast is coming out Friday (X1 install) and they're going to want to replace my owned cable modem and router with a leased all-in-one device that is a cable modem, voice modem, router, wireless access point and switch. If your cable company gave you a device like that then you've got some other options. I'm not sure what's going to happen in my case, but I'm sure it will be messy.
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post #15 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
It is not currently 300mbps, only 60 (heh), but they sent me the new modem saying it would be capable up to 300 as they continue to upgrade the service over several years. The modem is in fact JUST a modem, not other outputs, just the single ethernet cable out, which goes at this point to router internet input. I will use a single output from the airport to run back to the AV rack and utilize the switch there. Thanks for your assistance, this helped tremendously.
60Mbps is still extremely fast. My ISP offer a 50Mbps service but I don't use it. I run the 15Mbps service because it is more than enough for multiple audio and video streams as well as the phone an web surfing. I suppose if I still had kids at home might bump up to the 30Mbps service because we would use it.
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post #16 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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While clearly accurate, I think that subtlety may be lost on the OP.

I agree with FX4 and others, though - you need to understand what the cable company gave you. Comcast is coming out Friday (X1 install) and they're going to want to replace my owned cable modem and router with a leased all-in-one device that is a cable modem, voice modem, router, wireless access point and switch. If your cable company gave you a device like that then you've got some other options. I'm not sure what's going to happen in my case, but I'm sure it will be messy.
ha, no the one they gave me literally is a standalone modem, I remember the days where they attempted to give me all in one stuff and is why I actually had the modem that I did. Although I might have gotten hoodwinked this past time, it was at no cost out of my pocket, so I really didn't get too concerned about it

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60Mbps is still extremely fast. My ISP offer a 50Mbps service but I don't use it. I run the 15Mbps service because it is more than enough for multiple audio and video streams as well as the phone an web surfing. I suppose if I still had kids at home might bump up to the 30Mbps service because we would use it.
That's nice you have the option, they only give us the highest speed option with charter. It's either no internet, or $60/mo. A dollar for each MB you are technically supposed to get... Convenient for them eh? Haha

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post #17 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Another option would be to leave all the equipment where it is and run a long ethernet cable to a more central location and install a wireless access point, the Airport Express basestation would work well for this if you like the Apple gear. Asus also makes a good AP.
Hmm, do the airport express access points not create a second or .ext wireless network? I know in previous attempts before I had the airport extreme, this is what extenders did.

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post #18 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Just checked on this and they actually dont, so that is yet another option

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post #19 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 01:49 PM
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Hmm, do the airport express access points not create a second or .ext wireless network? I know in previous attempts before I had the airport extreme, this is what extenders did.
You can set them to extend the existing network if the signal is decent or connect them via ethernet. For the price, its a great solution.

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post #20 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 03:09 PM
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Hmm, do the airport express access points not create a second or .ext wireless network? I know in previous attempts before I had the airport extreme, this is what extenders did.
The airport express can work as a repeater but it's far from seamless. I did this for a while and eventually just moved the airport extreme to a central location. It works better.
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post #21 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 03:10 PM
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You can set them to extend the existing network if the signal is decent or connect them via ethernet. For the price, its a great solution.
The Ethernet repeater/extender solution might be the way to go. I never tried this option.
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post #22 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 03:15 PM
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The Ethernet repeater/extender solution might be the way to go. I never tried this option.
It is my preferred method, repeating a wireless signal can be iffy. Not to mention you are sometimes just repeating a crappy signal.
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post #23 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I discussed this with the tech at apple and he said as long as you are getting a good 4 bars in your extender location that it should work just fine. Having both being apple proprietary products I think will help too. I had similar results when I had linksys router with extender combo where it worked quite well, but far from it when I had a netgear extender with the same linksys router where I constantly had problems... funny thing is, 15 feet to the left of where I don't get good wireless, I get full signal. It is a lot of the HVAC and cinderblock walls that inhibit a nice straight shot from the router to the dead area. First plan, is to bring the router hardwired to the second (main) floor and above all that interference, where it will still be closer to the HT AV rack, but on the same plane as the dead area. It means literally moving the current location of the router vertically to the next floor and only about 15 feet closer to the dead area, but having the entire AV rack hardwired with the gigabit switch, it basically just means my phone/tab would need good enough signal to the router wirelessly, and the rest would be wired from there.... I think it is a fantastic first step.

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post #24 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 04:08 PM
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That's nice you have the option, they only give us the highest speed option with charter. It's either no internet, or $60/mo. A dollar for each MB you are technically supposed to get... Convenient for them eh? Haha
If you have Charter there is no need to purchase your own modem. It is included in the service price, and there is no discount for using your own.
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post #25 of 25 Old 07-09-2014, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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exactly why I went that route It wasn't always like that though. The old modem they offered several years ago had a rental charge on it, so I bought my own. Nowadays, it is a different story.

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